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STAR WARS MAFIA - End Game Thread

drafterman
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7/18/2013 10:00:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Winner: Mafia!

Dramatis Personae:
1. daytonanerd - Luke Skywalker - JOAT (Role Cop, Vigilante, Doctor, Motivator) - Town
2. TUF2 (Thaddeus) - Wedge Antilles - Tracker - Town
3. TUF - Arvel Crynyd - Bomb - Town
4. Khaos2 (DNinja) - Obi-wan Kenobi - Restless Spirit - Town
5. Maikuru - Darth Vader - JOAT (Role Cop, Rolestopper, Ninja, Strongman) - Mafia
6. Royal (Skep) - Admiral Piett - Lookout - Mafia
7. IFLY - Lando Calrissian - Saulus - Survivor (Converted to Mafia Goon)
8. Lannan (Budda) - R2-D2 - Backup - Town (Converted to Lightning Rod)
9. Sarcastic - Han Solo - Vigilante - Town
10. OneElephant - C-3P0 - Lightning Rod - Town
11. F16 - Grand Moff Tarkin - 1-shot Executioner - Mafia
12. Khaos - Chewbacca - Doctor - Town
13. Logic - Emperor Palpatine - Yakuza - Mafia
14. Rocket - Wicket - Watcher - Town
15. Trekie - Yoda - Dreamer - Town

Day/Night Actions:
DP/NP1
daytonanerd - Luke Skywalker - JOAT: Rolecop IFLY(Get IFLY's Role)
Thaddeus - Wedge Antilles - Tracker: Track Royal (Skep)(Royal visited DNinja)
TUF - Arvel Crynyd - Bomb: Lynched()
DNinja - Obi-wan Kenobi - Restless Spirit: N/A()
Maikuru - Darth Vader - JOAT: Rolestop F16()
Royal (Skep) - Admiral Piett - Lookout: Lookout DNinja(Royal and Khaos visited DNinja)
IFLY - Lando Calrissian - Saulus: N/A()
Budda - R2-D2 - Backup: Backup F16(Failed)
Sarcastic - Han Solo - Vigilante: Vig Trekie(Success; Killed)
OneElephant - C-3P0 - Lightning Rod: Waive()
F16 - Grand Moff Tarkin - 1-shot Executioner: Executed TUF()
Khaos - Chewbacca - Doctor: Protect DNinja()
Logic - Emperor Palpatine - Yakuza: Yazuka IFLY, Kill Sarcastic(Success, Died; Success)
Rocket - Wicket - Watcher: Watch Logic(Logic visited himself.)
Trekie - Yoda - Dreamer: 3 Dream (F16, Sarcastic, IFLY)(Died)

DP/NP2
daytonanerd - Luke Skywalker - JOAT: Vig royal(Success)
Thaddeus - Wedge Antilles - Tracker: Track Maikuru; Kill Khaos(Maikuru visited Budda; Success)
DNinja - Obi-wan Kenobi - Restless Spirit: N/A()
Maikuru - Darth Vader - JOAT: Rolecop Budda(Get Budda's Role)
Royal (Skep) - Admiral Piett - Lookout: Watch Royal(daytonanerd and royal visited; Died)
IFLY - Lando Calrissian - Goon: Lynched()
Budda - R2-D2 - Backup: Backup F-16(Success)
OneElephant - C-3P0 - Lightning Rod: Waive()
F16 - Grand Moff Tarkin - 1-shot Executioner: N/A()
Khaos - Chewbacca - Doctor: Protect Maikuru(Success; Died)
Rocket - Wicket - Watcher: Watch F16(Buddamoose visited)

DP/NP3
daytonanerd - Luke Skywalker - JOAT: Waive()
TUF2 (Thaddeus) - Wedge Antilles - Tracker: Track OneE(Redirected to OneE; OneE Visited no one)
DNinja - Obi-wan Kenobi - Restless Spirit: N/A()
Maikuru - Darth Vader - JOAT: Ninja on Daytona(Redirected to OneE; Success)
Budda - R2-D2 - Backup: Backup F-16(Redirected to OneE; Takes OneE's role)
OneElephant - C-3P0 - Lightning Rod: Use Ability(Success; Died)
F16 - Grand Moff Tarkin - 1-shot Executioner: N/A()
Rocket - Wicket - Watcher: Watch Maikuru(Redirected to OneE; TUF, Budda, Rocket visit OneE)

DP/NP4
daytonanerd - Luke Skywalker - JOAT: Protect Budda(Redirected to Budda; Success)
TUF2 (Thaddeus) - Wedge Antilles - Tracker: Track Maikuru(Redirected to Budda; Budda visited no one)
Khaos2 (DNinja) - Obi-wan Kenobi - Restless Spirit: N/A()
Maikuru - Darth Vader - JOAT: Kill Khaos(Redirected to Budda; Failed)
Budda - R2-D2 - Lightning Rod: Yes(Success)
F16 - Grand Moff Tarkin - 1-shot Executioner: N/A()
Rocket - Wicket - Watcher: Watch Maikuru(Redirected to Budda; daytona, TUF, Maikuru, Rocket visited Budda)

DP/NP5
daytonanerd - Luke Skywalker - JOAT: Motivate TUF(Success)
TUF2 (Thaddeus) - Wedge Antilles - Tracker: Track Khaos; F16(Khaos visited no one; F-16 visited Khaos)
Khaos2 (DNinja) - Obi-wan Kenobi - Restless Spirit: N/A(Died)
Maikuru - Darth Vader - JOAT: N/A()
Budda - R2-D2 - Lightning Rod: N/A()
F16 - Grand Moff Tarkin - 1-shot Executioner: Kill Khaos(Success)
Rocket - Wicket - Watcher: Watch daytona(Rocket visited daytona)

DP/NP6
daytonanerd - Luke Skywalker - JOAT: N/A()
TUF2 (Thaddeus) - Wedge Antilles - Tracker: Track lannan(Died)
Khaos2 (DNinja) - Obi-wan Kenobi - Restless Spirit: Vote TUF(Failed)
Maikuru - Darth Vader - JOAT: Kill TUF(Success)
lannan (Budda) - R2-D2 - Lightning Rod: N/A()
F16 - Grand Moff Tarkin - 1-shot Executioner: Lynched()
Rocket - Wicket - Watcher: Watch daytona(Rocket visited)

Analysis:
This was Town's game to lose. Mafia made error after error and the last phase had three confirmed Townies versus an unconfirmed and yet still resulted in a mislynch. Here are the highlights:

1. Mafia misused its most powerful abilities. Mafia decided to use it's free mislynch (executioner) against TUF, who had lied, was CC'd, and had a wagon building against him, out of fear that TUF would weasel out of it. Then, Mafia deliberately played aggressive and risky with Logic, all but getting CC'd by (trekie), forcing him to use his ability before she did CC him and get him lynched. The choice of IFLY was bad luck, but the ideal would have been to wait until there were a few confirmed Townies.

2. Mafia failed to fully exploit the benefits of its other abilities. The rolestop was wasted on F-16 and should have saved it to protect them against being tracked. The rolecop would have been better used early on, to prep for a Yakuza target. The Ninja was used well (on the night OneE used his lightning rod) but they didn't use the incriminating watcher results to get a mislynch. The strongman was never used, resulting in no kill the night Daytona protected Budda.

3. Mafia limited its options by treating non-confirmed Townies as confirmed. For some reason, the Mafia decided to treat Budda as confirmed. This was bad for a couple reasons: 1) Budda wasn't actually confirmed by any means (until he proved his ability). Since other Townies (Rocket, daytona, Khaos) were confirmed, it seems odd that they would deliberately increase the difficult of the game by reducing their lynch options.

4. Mafia kills TUF. The last DP had daytona, lannan, and Rocket. All of those Townies were confirmed. Daytona was confirmed through the lynch of IFLY, vig-killing of royal, and protection of Budda; Lannan/Budda was confirmed through having copied OneE's role, and Rocket was, indeed, confirmed through his watcher results on OneE. TUF, however, was not confirmed. His tracker results were accurate, but he could just as well have been a Mafia Scout. The Mafia night killed their only reasonable mislynch target.

The Town only really had two mistakes:
1. Sarcastic NP1 Vig Kills trekie.
2. The Town failed to recognize Rocket as confirmed.

Yet, despite all of that, the mafia managed to exploit inactivity and distrust to force No Lynches and get Rocket mislynched.

The MVP for this game is daytona. All of his actions were used optimally. His only mistake was to believe Rocket was mafia. Minus that I would say that daytona would have single handedly won the game for Town.

OreEle has asked for player-by-player rankings, and I will work on doing that.
drafterman
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7/18/2013 10:05:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 10:00:36 AM, drafterman wrote:

3. Mafia limited its options by treating non-confirmed Townies as confirmed. For some reason, the Mafia decided to treat Budda as confirmed. This was bad for a couple reasons: 1) Budda wasn't actually confirmed by any means (until he proved his ability). Since other Townies (Rocket, daytona, Khaos) were confirmed, it seems odd that they would deliberately increase the difficult of the game by reducing their lynch options.

2) There was no, objective Town reason for believing Budda to be confirmed at that time, which would have led more observant players to suspect F-16 of having hidden knowledge. However, I didn't see anyone pick up on this.
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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7/18/2013 10:06:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I love that the final scene of the game was Luke and Vader joining forces to kill Wicket.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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drafterman
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7/18/2013 10:14:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I will concede that this set-up was slightly tilted toward the Town. If I had to redesign this I would have swapped out the Watcher for an every night Roleblocker, but that's about it.

At the point in the game that the Mafia started complaining about imbalance, I will agree that the game was heavily imbalanced, because the Mafia had spent their most powerful roles and had nothing to show for it.

There was also the question of fake claims. It was asserted that there should have been "4 convincing fake-claims." This is absurd. First, the convincing nature of a fake-claim is dependent on the ability of the Mafioso to pull it off. Leia was set aside explicitly for the Mafia to find and use (which they did). With characters such as Arvel Crynyrd, Wedge Antilles, and Wicket, minor characters would not have looked out of place, such as Owen, Beru, Ackbar, Mon Mothma, General Nadine.

Only two people needed fake claims, Maikuru and royal/Skep. Logic and F-16 were one-shot wonders who shouldn't have needed to fake claims, their deaths are out weighed by their abilities.
drafterman
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7/18/2013 10:14:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 10:14:20 AM, drafterman wrote:
I will concede that this set-up was slightly tilted toward the Town. If I had to redesign this I would have swapped out the Lookout for an every night Roleblocker, but that's about it.
Maikuru
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7/18/2013 10:14:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I agree with most of drafter's analysis. We could have better used our roles and ran into bad luck. Daytona and Tuf did a pretty fantastic job as town and were headaches for us every step of the way.

I would say Tuf was the right kill last night, though. Tuf would not have allowed such a quick DP to go through, for a hammer situation to arise without me having chimed in, and his were the only results that could really hurt me. Whether accurate or not, town trust in Tuf was greater than Rocket, so Rocket having results on me would appear moreso as a gambit. I had a number of arguments prepared against Rocket and Lannan that I believe would have been sufficient. Also, Tuf's death implicated Lanna, though that didn't come up.
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daytonanerd
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7/18/2013 10:19:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I do admit, as I was eating breakfast, that the thought of Maikuru being a ninja ran through my mind to explain what happened NP3, but my gut said Rocket. I am sorry, man.

And yes, after so many tries, I am the MVP of a game!

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#FeeltheFreezerBern
Maikuru
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7/18/2013 10:22:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 10:14:20 AM, drafterman wrote:
I will concede that this set-up was slightly tilted toward the Town. If I had to redesign this I would have swapped out the Watcher for an every night Roleblocker, but that's about it.

At the point in the game that the Mafia started complaining about imbalance, I will agree that the game was heavily imbalanced, because the Mafia had spent their most powerful roles and had nothing to show for it.

There was also the question of fake claims. It was asserted that there should have been "4 convincing fake-claims." This is absurd. First, the convincing nature of a fake-claim is dependent on the ability of the Mafioso to pull it off. Leia was set aside explicitly for the Mafia to find and use (which they did). With characters such as Arvel Crynyrd, Wedge Antilles, and Wicket, minor characters would not have looked out of place, such as Owen, Beru, Ackbar, Mon Mothma, General Nadine.

The fake claiming was probably my favorite part of the game. I loved searching through characters and quotes and matching them up with your role list. The only character you listed that I didn't consider was Mothma, with the others being dismissed because of the quote necessity (I think Beru only says "Hi" or something?). You must have gotten a laugh watching claim after claim of mine being taken in the game lol.


Only two people needed fake claims, Maikuru and royal/Skep. Logic and F-16 were one-shot wonders who shouldn't have needed to fake claims, their deaths are out weighed by their abilities.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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Maikuru
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7/18/2013 10:25:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 10:19:40 AM, daytonanerd wrote:
I do admit, as I was eating breakfast, that the thought of Maikuru being a ninja ran through my mind to explain what happened NP3, but my gut said Rocket. I am sorry, man.

And yes, after so many tries, I am the MVP of a game!

http://knowyourmeme.com...

You role coped a Salus, vigged a scum, doc'd a townie, and motivated a townie at a crucial moment. The force was strong in you this game.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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Maikuru
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7/18/2013 10:30:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
F-16 deserves huge credit for the win. After logic, ifly, and royal died, we started making pages and pages of planning trying to find any sliver of hope. He came up with the big moves and lynch options that got us to the end.

We may have had to use logic's yak early but he did reveal trek's character in such a way that it prevented a full blown cc and outed one of the most dangerous town roles. Poor ifly never got a chance to even post after we recruited him and royal died after like 3 posts LOL. Oh man. This was a tight one.
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Maikuru
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7/18/2013 10:38:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
As to role distribution, much of the mafia seems made to die. Yak is obviously suicidal, goon is dispensable, lookout wouldn't last with a watcher/tracker in the game, and f-16 was a 1x. We hadn't considered all this when I began distancing myself from the rest of the team but it's a good thing I did.

I really enjoyed this game, drafter. Despite the above, I think the game was balanced. The Salus would have worked in our favor if not for our yak choice. I also thought your modding was very well done and you were obviously very active.

Incidentally, it was me that pointed out the timing discrepancy. I asked drafter not to count my vote on Tuf. Had I known rocket was going to immediately hammer and implicate himself, I obviously wouldn't have lol.
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daytonanerd
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7/18/2013 10:38:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 10:30:49 AM, Maikuru wrote:
F-16 deserves huge credit for the win. After logic, ifly, and royal died, we started making pages and pages of planning trying to find any sliver of hope. He came up with the big moves and lynch options that got us to the end.

We may have had to use logic's yak early but he did reveal trek's character in such a way that it prevented a full blown cc and outed one of the most dangerous town roles. Poor ifly never got a chance to even post after we recruited him and royal died after like 3 posts LOL. Oh man. This was a tight one.

I've got to say, this is my best performance in mafia yet. I mean, look at this:

DP1: Helped in the lynch of a useless townie (TUF)
DP2: Off of the previous night's role cop, I lead the lynch on iFly
NP2: Vigged Royal
NP4: Doc'd Budda to cancel the night phase for the mafia
DP6: Hammered F-16.

My gut failed me on Rocket, but then again, it would have been about impossible for me to figure out that it was Maikuru who was the scum. I mean, he looked so scummy at the end of DP5, and his NP3 results just screamed that he was it! Maybe I should have listened to TUF, who thought that Rocket was town. Oh well. You can't win them all.
#FeeltheFreezerBern
daytonanerd
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7/18/2013 10:41:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 10:38:06 AM, Maikuru wrote:
As to role distribution, much of the mafia seems made to die. Yak is obviously suicidal, goon is dispensable, lookout wouldn't last with a watcher/tracker in the game, and f-16 was a 1x. We hadn't considered all this when I began distancing myself from the rest of the team but it's a good thing I did.

I really enjoyed this game, drafter. Despite the above, I think the game was balanced. The Salus would have worked in our favor if not for our yak choice. I also thought your modding was very well done and you were obviously very active.

Incidentally, it was me that pointed out the timing discrepancy. I asked drafter not to count my vote on Tuf. Had I known rocket was going to immediately hammer and implicate himself, I obviously wouldn't have lol.

My God, ROCKET! Why Rocket, Why?! Why would he be so arrogant at the end of DP5 it is just... UGH. Oh well. The timing discrepancy actually worked in my favor. In me not believing Rocket was town, I then believed TUF was town, which made me use the motivate ability on him. It also helped lead to F-16's lynch DP6
#FeeltheFreezerBern
lannan13
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7/18/2013 11:12:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I joined in at the end, but still had fun.
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TUF
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7/18/2013 11:52:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Daytona, your actions towards late gane were caucky and foolish. You have to learn to let your pride go and consider things. I was losing my mind each time you would fail to defend accurately why I was mafia in DP4. Also you did the same thing to rocket in DP6 by being eager and naive. It's not like to you didn't have three days to gauge reactions, and decide who was scummiest.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
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7/18/2013 11:53:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
If I hadn't been killed I would have destroyed maikuru in the final day phase.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
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7/18/2013 11:58:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I knew the game was going to end in a loss with daytona screwing us over, so I am not very mad. I am just happy I was able to lynch scum before I died. It's sad that it takes pages of analysis and results just to lynch f-16. He is a great player with a lot of reputation. It was all I could do to lynch him. I do regret over thinking his play and not pursuing him earlier though. I WIFOMed myself out of lynching hin so many times its not even funny.

I Think MVP for best scum goes to f-16 still though.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Maikuru
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7/18/2013 12:00:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 11:53:40 AM, TUF wrote:
If I hadn't been killed I would have destroyed maikuru in the final day phase.

I just realized you tracked lannan last night. You were definitely the correct kill lol. Even though khaos voted for you, I would have needed one more, which Daytona wouldn't have given me.
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TUF
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7/18/2013 12:01:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 11:12:10 AM, lannan13 wrote:
I joined in at the end, but still had fun.

You did pretty good lannan. I am impressed by your play during DP5. You were doing good and were on the right track. Dont let experienced players manipulate you or degrade you. Scum can use that against you to gain their vote. while Daytona was town, he did the same. Think for yourself, but consider all avenues and take into account what others say and compare it to what you believe.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
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7/18/2013 12:04:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 12:00:19 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 7/18/2013 11:53:40 AM, TUF wrote:
If I hadn't been killed I would have destroyed maikuru in the final day phase.

I just realized you tracked lannan last night. You were definitely the correct kill lol. Even though khaos voted for you, I would have needed one more, which Daytona wouldn't have given me.

Lol yeah I knew I was going to die. I knew my reverse psychology wouldnt steer you away from killing me. no matter what my results would have given me the answer either through the night kill, or through POE. And after my lynch on f-16 it would have been impossible to gain enough support to get me lynched.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Maikuru
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7/18/2013 12:04:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think, with all our errors, the mafia's saving grace were the night kills. F-16 called it that Sarcastic had a power role and he would have been confirmed via trekie's death the next DP. We figured out that khaos had a protective role, saving our strongman for later. The ninja on OneE probably sealed the deal.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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TUF
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7/18/2013 12:07:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 12:04:55 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I think, with all our errors, the mafia's saving grace were the night kills. F-16 called it that Sarcastic had a power role and he would have been confirmed via trekie's death the next DP. We figured out that khaos had a protective role, saving our strongman for later. The ninja on OneE probably sealed the deal.

Yeah that fvcked with me because it meant either rocket me or budda was scum, and I could only see it being budda.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
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7/18/2013 12:08:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This was a fun well balanced game drafter, thanks for modding well.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
daytonanerd
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7/18/2013 12:09:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 11:52:50 AM, TUF wrote:
Daytona, your actions towards late gane were caucky and foolish. You have to learn to let your pride go and consider things. I was losing my mind each time you would fail to defend accurately why I was mafia in DP4. Also you did the same thing to rocket in DP6 by being eager and naive. It's not like to you didn't have three days to gauge reactions, and decide who was scummiest.

I'm not very much of a reaction gauger. But seriously, Rocket had to be mafia. I am sorry, but he made himself look so scummy, it was just so obvious.
#FeeltheFreezerBern
drafterman
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7/18/2013 12:12:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 12:09:15 PM, daytonanerd wrote:
At 7/18/2013 11:52:50 AM, TUF wrote:
Daytona, your actions towards late gane were caucky and foolish. You have to learn to let your pride go and consider things. I was losing my mind each time you would fail to defend accurately why I was mafia in DP4. Also you did the same thing to rocket in DP6 by being eager and naive. It's not like to you didn't have three days to gauge reactions, and decide who was scummiest.

I'm not very much of a reaction gauger. But seriously, Rocket had to be mafia. I am sorry, but he made himself look so scummy, it was just so obvious.

I'll agree that his reaction to the perceived lynching of TUF was suspcious, but there really was no away of getting around him having accurate watcher results when a Mafia Lookout was already dead.

Yeah, there are possibilities, such as him having copied a watcher royal, but none that would really hold any water.
Maikuru
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7/18/2013 12:15:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
After his hammer, I probably would have voted Rocket, too lol.

Props to both tuf and khaos for calling out me and f-16 as the final scum team in the last DP's. What was frustrating is that they both did so independently lol.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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lannan13
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7/18/2013 12:17:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2013 12:01:20 PM, TUF wrote:
At 7/18/2013 11:12:10 AM, lannan13 wrote:
I joined in at the end, but still had fun.

You did pretty good lannan. I am impressed by your play during DP5. You were doing good and were on the right track. Dont let experienced players manipulate you or degrade you. Scum can use that against you to gain their vote. while Daytona was town, he did the same. Think for yourself, but consider all avenues and take into account what others say and compare it to what you believe.

It's what I'm tryin' to do. I know my mafia reputation and I'm trying to improve it.
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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trekie
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7/18/2013 12:21:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
So Sarcastic vigged me? Why?
Also, that first NP result would have been awesome. (F-16, Sarcastic, IFLY) *sigh*

At 7/18/2013 10:30:49 AM, Maikuru wrote:
We may have had to use logic's yak early but he did reveal trek's character in such a way that it prevented a full blown cc and outed one of the most dangerous town roles.
I think considering the circumstances that worked out well for you guys. It helped that I was being a moron by not CCing immediately. But I would also like to think that without the executioner on TUF, Logic would have gotten lynched that dayphase. (I was about 3 minutes late to post when the DP ended prematurely. At the least, that post might have saved me from getting vigged.) Drafter said I should save my draft for the next dayphase. That bastard. :)

I thought F-16 did great as scum, even when defending against TUF's case. I mean, TUF did better, but he did have the truth on his side. And really, huge props to TUF on his late game performance.