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BEGINNERS 15.2 - Day Phase 2

drafterman
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7/28/2013 6:35:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Lynched Last Day Phase:
daytonanerd - Paranoid Gun Owner - Town

Died Last Night Phase:
lannan - Lie Detector - Town

Living Players:
1. bladerunner
2. Beginner
3. xXCryptoXx
4. Cermank
5. Noctan

With 5 players, it takes 3 votes to lynch.
This Day Phase will end no later than 8/1 at 07:00 pm DDO Time.
xXCryptoXx
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7/28/2013 6:37:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
VTL Beginner

He declared being a Vanilla Townie yet that isn't even a role on the list. He obviously lied about his role, and let's face it, we cannot keep someone who has lied in this game.
Nolite Timere
bladerunner060
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7/28/2013 6:37:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
As a noob, I have no idea how to not be suspicious once the finger is pointed in my direction. So I will just speak my piece, and hope for the best. We're in lynch or lose, now, so it's a cards on the table moment:

I'm the doctor; I protected Crypto in the night phase. It was him or Lannan, I figured. Clearly, I can analyze with lots of words...and little talent.

However, this I know:

Noctan is mafia.

Unfortunately, he hadn't acted suspicious enough (or at least I didn't think I could establish solid enough grounds) to lay a solid claim on, which is why I didn't want to make him my first choice necessarily (I really should have jumped on when other people started to suspect him so that we got a solid win, but I had a plan...a clearly stupid one, but that seems to be the theme of me and mafia).

I was afraid if I tried to push it, I wouldn't be able to make a strong enough case, since the biggest evidence couldn't be revealed. I figured best case scenario, I get fingered by the mafia as the doc and die as soon as they think it's tactically wise. Worst case scenario, I get lynched myself for shaky reasoning. Therefore, I kept him in my pocket and went after the next candidate at the time, hence why my reasoning was as it was.

Daytona hadn't answered. He was the strongest candidate when I voted; he had not said anything after the first one, where he ignored the call to assert township, which, being a veteran, I would have expected him to jump on. He did throw us for a loop with the vanilla comment...but if drafter doesn't confirm or deny (and I doubt he will at this point, it might break the game since it would give away Beginner if true, and he might figure that we'd know that and choose not to deny, either, to keep us guessing), then it was really just a random assertion that may or may not be true from someone who was getting lynched for lurking. Was anyone really going to lose their suspicion of him?

I voted for Daytonanerd @ 4:47:55. At that time, no one had voted for him. After me, Lannan voted for him @ 5:12:40, followed by Beginner @ 6:34:57, followed by Crypto 8:29:40, who specifically said he was trying not to drop the hammer. No, Drafter did not have 2 votes against Daytona "25 minutes before my vote". @ 8:16:46 he said he had 2 votes, and that's when Crypto responded. I will admit I missed his tally. But his tally was wrong.

Beginner voted for, then retracted Lannan. Then Lannan voted for Beginner. Then daytona swooped in and voted for Beginner, which is when he responded that he won with town and was vanilla. Then Crypto voted for Noctan and quickly unvoted. Beginner voted for Crypto.

That's when I posted my wall-o-text and voted for Daytona for not responding. (Side note, TheAntidoter jumped in and quoted Lannan, who told him he should type it himself rather than quoting...but he isn't playing? That was odd, no?)

I clarified since I had originally italicized. I thought it would have been dishonest to try to retract a vote that had been clearly placed...when Crypto voted, as far as I knew it was over. Drafter said once 4 votes are cast, the decision is made. I'm still not clear on why it's anti-town to tally points once the die has already been cast...Daytona, if I hadn't, would you have known that the vote was finished before drafter closed the votes? I would think we'd want it as obvious as possible as soon as possible, to give as much time as possible to have as much discussion as possible. The innocent get their last chance to plead for further actions after knowing they're dying (which gave you the opportunity to point at me). Last game, Beginner got a chance to plead that we do Crypto next (though I think he did that in the time between 3 and 4, but then he's on cosntantly)...had we done so, we would have stood a chance of winning. In this case, I it's me pleading to lynch Noctan.

VTL Noctan.

At this point, after Noctan, I'm unsure. I want to say Beginner. But if we don't lynch, we lose, if we lynch, and we get it right, then the odds shift back into our favor.
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bladerunner060
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7/28/2013 6:39:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Crypto, are we sure that Beginner can't be vanilla?

Don't get me wrong, he's my highest other suspect, except that I'm not sure on this vanilla business.
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xXCryptoXx
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7/28/2013 6:45:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/28/2013 6:39:07 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Crypto, are we sure that Beginner can't be vanilla?

Don't get me wrong, he's my highest other suspect, except that I'm not sure on this vanilla business.

It's possible that he could be vanilla, but unlikely.

"The previous game was a watered-down version of mafia, relying more on behavioral cues and tells. While these are good skills to have and develop, a majority of the games on DDO are considered to be "Role Madness" games. That is, everyone - or almost everyone - has some role which confers active or passive abilities that players may use during the Night Phase."

This means it is possible he could be telling the truth, but it is hard to tell.

Bladerunner, please summarize and explain more clearly why you think it is Noctan because I didn't quite follow you when you were giving your reasoning.
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xXCryptoXx
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7/28/2013 6:50:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Unvote

It's either Noctan or Beginner.

There's a possibility that it's not beginner, and if you are truly convinced it's Noctan I think we should go for the lynch against him.
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bladerunner060
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7/28/2013 6:56:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/28/2013 6:45:58 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:


Bladerunner, please summarize and explain more clearly why you think it is Noctan because I didn't quite follow you when you were giving your reasoning.

Sorry if it was unclear; I typed that in a frenzy on Friday when I realized how badly I'd screwed up. Noctan said he was the doctor. I am the doctor. Although I have just thought of a plausible reason for his lie, so crap.

Unvote. We need discussion. And I will probably bandwagon on with others, because I am just sucking at this game.
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xXCryptoXx
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7/28/2013 6:59:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/28/2013 6:56:54 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 7/28/2013 6:45:58 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:


Bladerunner, please summarize and explain more clearly why you think it is Noctan because I didn't quite follow you when you were giving your reasoning.

Sorry if it was unclear; I typed that in a frenzy on Friday when I realized how badly I'd screwed up. Noctan said he was the doctor. I am the doctor. Although I have just thought of a plausible reason for his lie, so crap.

Unvote. We need discussion. And I will probably bandwagon on with others, because I am just sucking at this game.

What plausible reason could he have?

Look, lying is basically not tolerated in this game, and anyone who does so and is caught should be lynched.

This is the reasoning I put behind lynching Beginner, however, unlike Noctan it is possible that Beginner wasn't lying.
Nolite Timere
bladerunner060
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7/28/2013 7:04:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/28/2013 6:59:23 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 7/28/2013 6:56:54 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 7/28/2013 6:45:58 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:


Bladerunner, please summarize and explain more clearly why you think it is Noctan because I didn't quite follow you when you were giving your reasoning.

Sorry if it was unclear; I typed that in a frenzy on Friday when I realized how badly I'd screwed up. Noctan said he was the doctor. I am the doctor. Although I have just thought of a plausible reason for his lie, so crap.

Unvote. We need discussion. And I will probably bandwagon on with others, because I am just sucking at this game.

What plausible reason could he have?

Look, lying is basically not tolerated in this game, and anyone who does so and is caught should be lynched.

This is the reasoning I put behind lynching Beginner, however, unlike Noctan it is possible that Beginner wasn't lying.

Look at the roles. There's a reason someone might want to make themselves a target for the Mafia, rolewise. Sure, he wasn't the Paranoid Gun owner, but if he was the Commuter or Bulletproof, he would be safe at night even if he was targeted.

I get the lying isn't tolerated argument. I just realized a flaw, and considering how much I've been sucking I unvoted. If ya'll think that that's not plausible, I'll go along, but I'm not gonna be the first one voting for anyone for awhile.
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xXCryptoXx
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7/28/2013 7:39:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hmmm, i jsut don't know.

Obviously we have two people that are suspects for being lynched, and one of them is going to be lynched.

That is Beginner and Noctan.

Beginner claimed he was a vanilla even thought that isn't a role on the list, however it is possible he could still be a vanilla since Drafterman said that "That is, everyone - or almost everyone - has some role" meaning not everyone necessarily will have an actual special role.

Noctan however, blatantly lied about his role, and Bladerunenr has confirmed it as his own. HOWEVER, we do not actually know Bladerunner is telling the truth either, however I think we all agree that if one of the two was going to be the one who lied it would be Noctan. However, Noctan may have had just reasons for lying that could have benefited the town, and that he should therefore not be lynched for his actions.

Beginner - Well we've narrowed him down to two things. He is either blatantly 100% Mafia, or he easily possibly telling the truth.

Noctan - We do not know whether he is Mafia or not, he lied about his role blatantly, however he may have done so for just reasons in supporting Town like Bladerunner said.

Due to the fact that Noctan has been a bit inactive and may be lurking, and lied about his role, I will place my vote on lynching him.

VTL Noctan
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bladerunner060
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7/28/2013 7:47:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I will VTL Noctan, since I don't want to be the hammer.
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Beginner
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7/28/2013 7:57:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I honestly cannot see why you guys find it so hard to believe that I am vanilla. Drafter never said that there were no vanillas. Here is my role PM:
You are a Vanilla. You have no night abilities. You win with the town. The town wins when all members of the mafia have been eliminated.

Facts are facts, I have received the vanilla role. That's it.
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Beginner
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7/28/2013 7:58:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I can't believe you guys are just dismissing the fact that bladerunner hammered Daytona. Drafter didn't register that vote because he knew that it was italicized and chose to ignore it. I refuse to believe that bladerunner would hammer Daytona just for the sake of his font-writing honesty. Just as Lannan did last game when he hammered me, bladerunner is allowing us to believe he made an 'honest mistake'. I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT. I am absolutely positive bladerunner is mafia.

The confirmation : bladerunner is now counterclaiming noctan as doctor. You might be thinking that one or the other is lying correct? WRONG. I firmly believe that both players are falsifying this incident. By counterclaiming noctan, bladerunner separates himself from noctan. When noctan is lynched as mafia, bladerunner would be the last person we'd lynch since he is the one who came up with the reasoning for lynching Noctan and he is the one counterclaiming.

TOWN WINS VOTE TO LYNCH BLADERUNNER AND NOCTAN!
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bladerunner060
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7/28/2013 8:03:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/28/2013 7:58:38 PM, Beginner wrote:
I can't believe you guys are just dismissing the fact that bladerunner hammered Daytona. Drafter didn't register that vote because he knew that it was italicized and chose to ignore it. I refuse to believe that bladerunner would hammer Daytona just for the sake of his font-writing honesty. Just as Lannan did last game when he hammered me, bladerunner is allowing us to believe he made an 'honest mistake'. I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT. I am absolutely positive bladerunner is mafia.

The confirmation : bladerunner is now counterclaiming noctan as doctor. You might be thinking that one or the other is lying correct? WRONG. I firmly believe that both players are falsifying this incident. By counterclaiming noctan, bladerunner separates himself from noctan. When noctan is lynched as mafia, bladerunner would be the last person we'd lynch since he is the one who came up with the reasoning for lynching Noctan and he is the one counterclaiming.

TOWN WINS VOTE TO LYNCH BLADERUNNER AND NOCTAN!

There's a certain irony in your screwing up italics in accusing me of not having honestly screwed up my italics, while hammering someone yourself.

I voted. Yes, I screwed up with my italics, but it wasn't supposed to be a hammer when I cast my vote, which was the first for Daytona.
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Beginner
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7/28/2013 8:07:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/28/2013 8:03:49 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 7/28/2013 7:58:38 PM, Beginner wrote:
I can't believe you guys are just dismissing the fact that bladerunner hammered Daytona. Drafter didn't register that vote because he knew that it was italicized and chose to ignore it. I refuse to believe that bladerunner would hammer Daytona just for the sake of his font-writing honesty. Just as Lannan did last game when he hammered me, bladerunner is allowing us to believe he made an 'honest mistake'. I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT. I am absolutely positive bladerunner is mafia.

The confirmation : bladerunner is now counterclaiming noctan as doctor. You might be thinking that one or the other is lying correct? WRONG. I firmly believe that both players are falsifying this incident. By counterclaiming noctan, bladerunner separates himself from noctan. When noctan is lynched as mafia, bladerunner would be the last person we'd lynch since he is the one who came up with the reasoning for lynching Noctan and he is the one counterclaiming.

TOWN WINS VOTE TO LYNCH BLADERUNNER AND NOCTAN!

There's a certain irony in your screwing up italics in accusing me of not having honestly screwed up my italics, while hammering someone yourself.

I voted. Yes, I screwed up with my italics, but it wasn't supposed to be a hammer when I cast my vote, which was the first for Daytona.

I'm so excited, we've pretty much won. Sorry Bladerunner, but you're going down DP3
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bladerunner060
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7/28/2013 8:14:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Beginner:

Your reasoning is flawed. If Noctan was mafia, and was my partner, why would I sell him out? YOU were an easy target; suspicion was on you due to your vanilla claim. Crypto voted for you initially until I gave my role and called out Noctan as having lied.

If Noctan and I were mafia, I would have tried to get you lynched which would have been a victory for mafia.

Instead, now that Noctan is as good as dead thanks to your hammer, this DP is over as soon as Drafter closes it, before we get any more discussion for today.

If you're mafia, ending the day was the smart play on your part, since you couldn't be sure that the other non-mafia wouldn't end it, leaving you the most suspicious.
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Beginner
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7/28/2013 8:34:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
(From 15.1 Endgame)
At 7/25/2013 8:08:37 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
It would have been so freaking satisfying to throw down the hammer winning the game!!! D:
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TUF
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7/28/2013 8:38:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think they should have an advisor for town too. Someone to let town know they shouldn't place their votes willy nilly during LYLO.

Good job crypto, and beginner! you guys rocked the house.
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bladerunner060
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7/28/2013 8:38:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
...Except that you didn't win the game, unless somehow Noctan wasn't mafia.

Now that you've dropped the hammer, if he's not mafia the game is over in favor of mafia and you might as well reveal yourself. Since I think he IS mafia, your behavior is questionable.
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Beginner
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7/28/2013 8:38:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/28/2013 8:38:10 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
...Except that you didn't win the game, unless somehow Noctan wasn't mafia.

Now that you've dropped the hammer, if he's not mafia the game is over in favor of mafia and you might as well reveal yourself. Since I think he IS mafia, your behavior is questionable.

Noctan was town, Crypto and I were the mafia.
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bladerunner060
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7/28/2013 8:42:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I suuuck.

Why'd you bother posting the extra bit against me, then, beginner? That seems just mean. You may as well have hammered and then crowed, instead of continuing to pretend.
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bladerunner060
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7/28/2013 8:43:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Also, now I want to know why Noctan felt the need to lie.
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Beginner
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7/28/2013 8:48:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/28/2013 8:42:44 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
I suuuck.

Why'd you bother posting the extra bit against me, then, beginner? That seems just mean. You may as well have hammered and then crowed, instead of continuing to pretend.

I wanted to see how you'd respond (for the purposes of future games).. sorry if that came off as mean.. to be honest though, I think you were pretty good on the opening analysis I mean here:
(from DP1, 15.2)
At 7/26/2013 1:21:11 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:

Beginner is acting exactly the same as last game...is that a ploy to convince us he's just like that all the time? Is that a mafia ploy to convince us he's really town?

You have no idea how spot on this analysis was. Plus Crypto and I basically set things up to blind you (and the others), so it wasn't really your fault
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FrackJack
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7/28/2013 8:52:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/28/2013 8:43:16 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Also, now I want to know why Noctan felt the need to lie.

Why did you let Beginner live? He was clearly scum.
: At 8/8/2013 6:15:09 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
: The idiots are rebelling.

http://i.imgur.com...
bladerunner060
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7/28/2013 8:53:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/28/2013 8:52:07 PM, FrackJack wrote:
At 7/28/2013 8:43:16 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Also, now I want to know why Noctan felt the need to lie.

Why did you let Beginner live? He was clearly scum.

I was pretty sure. But Noctan definitely lied, so regardless of Beginner's tells, Noctan seemed strongest.
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