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Philosophers Mafia III Dp3

Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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9/19/2013 5:49:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Living players:

1. TN05
2. JonMilne
3. Sparkies
4. Draftsr/F-282 (2) (replaced TA)
5. Shadowguynick
6. Khaos_Mage
7. Blackhawk (replaced Bossy)
8. NightofCats

Dead players:

FT/Yraelz- You are Frederic Jameson. You are a 1x bus driver. Once at night, you may switch two players. Any actions that was meant to affect one player, will now affect the other, and vice versa. You win with the mafia.

Johnny- You are Ferdinand de Saussure. You are a vanilla townie. Your weapon is your vote, you have no night action. You win with the town.

Drafterman- Jean Baudrillard- vanilla townie
Budda- Friedrich Nietzsche- vigilante
Hatstand- Judith Butler- vanilla townie

With 8 living players it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Not counting extensions, the Dp ends Sept 22 at 7 PM EST
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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9/19/2013 6:26:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Looks like Drafterman/F-16 were right, so my apologies to them for not going along with the lynch. That aside, still not certain if it was bussing or not - FT/Yrealz were going to die eventually, so it would make sense for a respawned mafia to push a lynch on them to establish town cred.

While FT/Yrealz being bus driver it means we don't have to worry about being bus-driven anymore, and any claims of redirection this DP need to be taken with a grain of salt . It also lends credence to the possibility of my bus-driver hypothesis being how Budda died NP1, but nothing is confirmed on that front.

Right now, I'm going to go ahead and resume my push to lynch Blackhawk. I haven't seen much at all to change my opinion of him from the terrible Bossy performance DP1 and the mostly-absent play in DP2.

VTL Blackhawk
blackhawk1331
Posts: 4,932
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9/19/2013 9:11:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 6:26:01 PM, TN05 wrote:
Right now, I'm going to go ahead and resume my push to lynch Blackhawk. I haven't seen much at all to change my opinion of him from the terrible Bossy performance DP1 and the mostly-absent play in DP2.

This is why I view you as potential scum. Sure, bossy may have done poorly dp 1, and you could be justified in trying to push my lynch on that. However, you're still trying to use my absence as a reason to lynch me even after I explained it, and you accepted the reasoning. There is no good reason for you to have cited my absence unless you are trying to do whatever possible to secure my mislynch. I'll have to re-read past dos, but I may be willing to push your lynch. I was suspicious of you last dp, I just have to go and remember why.

As for bossy's behavior, I'm not going to tell you to ignore it, but why don't you push it to the side for now and look at how my play has been. Decide whether or not my play has been pro- or anti-town, and decide based on that whether or not you still want to lynch me.
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
TN05
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9/19/2013 9:49:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 9:11:26 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
At 9/19/2013 6:26:01 PM, TN05 wrote:
Right now, I'm going to go ahead and resume my push to lynch Blackhawk. I haven't seen much at all to change my opinion of him from the terrible Bossy performance DP1 and the mostly-absent play in DP2.

This is why I view you as potential scum. Sure, bossy may have done poorly dp 1, and you could be justified in trying to push my lynch on that. However, you're still trying to use my absence as a reason to lynch me even after I explained it, and you accepted the reasoning. There is no good reason for you to have cited my absence unless you are trying to do whatever possible to secure my mislynch. I'll have to re-read past dos, but I may be willing to push your lynch. I was suspicious of you last dp, I just have to go and remember why.

I said "I haven't seen much at all to change my opinion of him from the terrible Bossy performance DP1 and the mostly-absent play in DP2.". I could have worded this better, but what I was trying to say is that I thought Bossy was scum DP1, and nothing you did in DP2 changed that because you were absent most of the time. The fact you jump on this makes it pretty clear to me that you are desperate and have to deflect attention from yourself to a new target.

As for bossy's behavior, I'm not going to tell you to ignore it, but why don't you push it to the side for now and look at how my play has been. Decide whether or not my play has been pro- or anti-town, and decide based on that whether or not you still want to lynch me.

No, I'm not going to ignore Bossy's behavior or push it to the side. He had this before you, and the play of a person is a direct indication of the type of what alignment they have. He was not playing like town, he was playing like scum, and pretty bad scum at that. I cannot judge your play because you haven't really done much to prove either way - you showed up at the end of the DP and joined in a bandwagon lynch, not really anything special.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/19/2013 11:23:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The way I see it, Drafter/F-16 are either lying about their role (perhaps SK) or they are hider. TA confirmed Jon, so they are either both mafia or both town, or Drafter played a huge gambit and is scum and Jon is town.

So, Drafter or F-16, who did you hide behind?
I say if it is Jon again, we lynch Jon to verify Drafter (giving him the benefit of the doubt).
We can afford a mislynch given our position.
My work here is, finally, done.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/20/2013 12:06:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 11:23:22 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
The way I see it, Drafter/F-16 are either lying about their role (perhaps SK) or they are hider. TA confirmed Jon, so they are either both mafia or both town, or Drafter played a huge gambit and is scum and Jon is town.

So, Drafter or F-16, who did you hide behind?
I say if it is Jon again, we lynch Jon to verify Drafter (giving him the benefit of the doubt).
We can afford a mislynch given our position.

How did you come to this conclusion?
Sparkies
Posts: 652
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9/20/2013 1:37:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 11:23:22 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
The way I see it, Drafter/F-16 are either lying about their role (perhaps SK) or they are hider. TA confirmed Jon, so they are either both mafia or both town, or Drafter played a huge gambit and is scum and Jon is town.

So, Drafter or F-16, who did you hide behind?
I say if it is Jon again, we lynch Jon to verify Drafter (giving him the benefit of the doubt).
We can afford a mislynch given our position.

when did TA ever confirm Jon? (please correct me if I'm wrong.
BTW carry-on from last dp, VTL TN05
Sparkies
Posts: 652
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9/20/2013 1:50:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 9:49:18 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 9/19/2013 9:11:26 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
At 9/19/2013 6:26:01 PM, TN05 wrote:
Right now, I'm going to go ahead and resume my push to lynch Blackhawk. I haven't seen much at all to change my opinion of him from the terrible Bossy performance DP1 and the mostly-absent play in DP2.

This is why I view you as potential scum. Sure, bossy may have done poorly dp 1, and you could be justified in trying to push my lynch on that. However, you're still trying to use my absence as a reason to lynch me even after I explained it, and you accepted the reasoning. There is no good reason for you to have cited my absence unless you are trying to do whatever possible to secure my mislynch. I'll have to re-read past dos, but I may be willing to push your lynch. I was suspicious of you last dp, I just have to go and remember why.

I said "I haven't seen much at all to change my opinion of him from the terrible Bossy performance DP1 and the mostly-absent play in DP2.". I could have worded this better, but what I was trying to say is that I thought Bossy was scum DP1, and nothing you did in DP2 changed that because you were absent most of the time. The fact you jump on this makes it pretty clear to me that you are desperate and have to deflect attention from yourself to a new target.

No, I'm not going to ignore Bossy's behavior or push it to the side. He had this before you, and the play of a person is a direct indication of the type of what alignment they have. He was not playing like town, he was playing like scum, and pretty bad scum at that. I cannot judge your play because you haven't really done much to prove either way - you showed up at the end of the DP and joined in a bandwagon lynch, not really anything special.

"but what I was trying to say is that I thought Bossy was scum DP1, and nothing you did in DP2 changed that because you were absent most of the time. The fact you jump on this makes it pretty clear to me that you are desperate and have to deflect attention from yourself to a new target."

I've copied this to show again how TN05 is clearly scum. There was only 1 or 2 votes on Blackhawk, and there has been no other opinion on him that he is scum. Again, now that we've pointed out you don't back your arguments, you give us pretty bad reasoning behind your opinion, namely how blackhawk was " desperate and have to deflect attention from [himself] to a new target". How was he desperate and have to deflect attention? 1 he only join in FT/Yraelz lynch once we were close to lynching them, 2, there was barely any votes on him, so why did he need to shift the attention? As a matter of fact, he never tried to really convince people that he wasn't scum, and you only stated that "Drafterman, Sparkies, and Blackhawk are the mafia, guys."
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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9/20/2013 10:39:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/19/2013 11:23:22 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
The way I see it, Drafter/F-16 are either lying about their role (perhaps SK) or they are hider.

Ok, I see last DP where TA soft-claimed Hider. But what is the utility/purpose of this statement. It's true for everyone that claims. Everyone is either lying about the role they claimed or is the actually the role they claimed. It seems like the only purpose of this statement is to make us look scummy for something that applies to everyone without actually calling us scummy or having to make an argument that we are scummy.

As it is, I see no reason that we need to provide our role submissions at this point in time, except to say that Jon is not confirmed and we don't know why TA said that he was.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/20/2013 10:39:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Drafter/F-16 replaced TA.
TA, when voting for me in my pursuit of Jon last DP (before he was replaced) said, in response to my asking him how he knew Jon was town:
"If we was scum, I'd be dead"

This is the only reason why I called off my vote on Jon, because TA vouched for him.

How did people miss this? Or is Drafter/F-16 not reading the DP, which is a scum tell.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/20/2013 10:43:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/20/2013 10:39:49 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 9/19/2013 11:23:22 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
The way I see it, Drafter/F-16 are either lying about their role (perhaps SK) or they are hider.

Ok, I see last DP where TA soft-claimed Hider. But what is the utility/purpose of this statement. It's true for everyone that claims. Everyone is either lying about the role they claimed or is the actually the role they claimed. It seems like the only purpose of this statement is to make us look scummy for something that applies to everyone without actually calling us scummy or having to make an argument that we are scummy.

As it is, I see no reason that we need to provide our role submissions at this point in time, except to say that Jon is not confirmed and we don't know why TA said that he was.

So, to be clear, you are not vouching for Jon, saying that he is 100% town, as TA was?
Are you, in fact, saying you are not hider?
If so, my vote is going back on Jon.

BTW, the timing of our posts is pretty funny.
My work here is, finally, done.
JonMilne
Posts: 1,302
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9/20/2013 10:45:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
So I'm curious Khaos, why precisely do you believe I'm scum, and indeed why do you feel the need to presuppose that Drafter hid behind me, and even if that is truly the case, how does that justify lynching me when, as you say yourself, there's a very strong chance I'm a mislynch?

I mean, you point to DP1, but what was the one unique thing I was guilty of that you weren't? Attempting to improve my play by not making VTLs until I was absolutely sure. Uh-huh. Okay. And the scum tell in this is...?

You are the only one now pursuing an absolutely baseless accusation of me, despite everything that quite clearly points to the contrary. Such ridiculous dedication to lynching an obvious townie can only mean that you're scum and that you bussed FT/Yraelz and then attempted to frame me as scum for shady reasons.

VTL Khaos.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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9/20/2013 10:55:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/20/2013 10:39:56 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Drafter/F-16 replaced TA.
TA, when voting for me in my pursuit of Jon last DP (before he was replaced) said, in response to my asking him how he knew Jon was town:
"If we was scum, I'd be dead"

This is the only reason why I called off my vote on Jon, because TA vouched for him.

How did people miss this? Or is Drafter/F-16 not reading the DP, which is a scum tell.

No it isn't. When we came back in our #1, immediate priority, was to get FT/Yraelz lynched. I literally didn't read anything about DP2 until just now because it didn't matter. The only thing F16 and me were talking about was how to get FT/Yraelz lynched.

That's all that matter.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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9/20/2013 10:57:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/20/2013 10:43:33 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/20/2013 10:39:49 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 9/19/2013 11:23:22 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
The way I see it, Drafter/F-16 are either lying about their role (perhaps SK) or they are hider.

Ok, I see last DP where TA soft-claimed Hider. But what is the utility/purpose of this statement. It's true for everyone that claims. Everyone is either lying about the role they claimed or is the actually the role they claimed. It seems like the only purpose of this statement is to make us look scummy for something that applies to everyone without actually calling us scummy or having to make an argument that we are scummy.

As it is, I see no reason that we need to provide our role submissions at this point in time, except to say that Jon is not confirmed and we don't know why TA said that he was.

So, to be clear, you are not vouching for Jon, saying that he is 100% town, as TA was?

Correct.

Are you, in fact, saying you are not hider?

No, I'm not saying that.

If so, my vote is going back on Jon.

BTW, the timing of our posts is pretty funny.

I answer your questions, now answer mine:

What is the utility/purpose of saying that we're either the role we implied we were or we're lying (along with the out-of-the-blue mentioning that we could be SK, which also can apply to anyone)?
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/20/2013 10:57:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/20/2013 10:45:47 AM, JonMilne wrote:
So I'm curious Khaos, why precisely do you believe I'm scum, and indeed why do you feel the need to presuppose that Drafter hid behind me, and even if that is truly the case, how does that justify lynching me when, as you say yourself, there's a very strong chance I'm a mislynch?

TA soft claimed hider.
He implied he hid behind you NP1 and did not die.
Therefore, you are town.
Drafter is now saying he has no idea why TA said that, which means he is not hider.
Therefore, my FOS on you has returned.

I didn't presuppose Drafter hid behind you, I said that if he did you need to die to confirm the better player. There are 2-3 scum left, and confirming other players leads to POE.

I mean, you point to DP1, but what was the one unique thing I was guilty of that you weren't? Attempting to improve my play by not making VTLs until I was absolutely sure. Uh-huh. Okay. And the scum tell in this is...?

Um, that's not why I am suspicious of you. And if memory serves, you were the first to put a vote on Drafter (1).

You are the only one now pursuing an absolutely baseless accusation of me, despite everything that quite clearly points to the contrary. Such ridiculous dedication to lynching an obvious townie can only mean that you're scum and that you bussed FT/Yraelz and then attempted to frame me as scum for shady reasons.

1. It's not baseless, since you keep pretending you are an obvious townie, when you aren't. Why are you so obvious? Your pledge on DP2, which both Yraelz mimicked and you dishonored.
2. FT was scum. FT obviously wanted Drafter dead. FT could very easily have you attack Drafter DP1 with horrible logic (hydras, really?) and see what happens. He found an in, but had he not, he would just have passed it off as noob scum hunting.
Notice that he also very likely bus drove Budda's death NP1. So, his plan was to kill the two best townies in the first phases.
3. You still misrepresent/don't understand why I am suspect of you.

These are the three biggest reasons I suspect you.

VTL Khaos.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/20/2013 10:59:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/20/2013 10:55:45 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 9/20/2013 10:39:56 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Drafter/F-16 replaced TA.
TA, when voting for me in my pursuit of Jon last DP (before he was replaced) said, in response to my asking him how he knew Jon was town:
"If we was scum, I'd be dead"

This is the only reason why I called off my vote on Jon, because TA vouched for him.

How did people miss this? Or is Drafter/F-16 not reading the DP, which is a scum tell.

No it isn't. When we came back in our #1, immediate priority, was to get FT/Yraelz lynched. I literally didn't read anything about DP2 until just now because it didn't matter. The only thing F16 and me were talking about was how to get FT/Yraelz lynched.

That's all that matter.

That is quite believable, especially when you posted it before I did.
I would not have said that had your post ahead of mine been there five minutes earlier.
My work here is, finally, done.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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9/20/2013 11:00:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/20/2013 10:44:13 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Oh, and the reason I wanted you to out your results is for POE.

Too bad.

VTL TN05 He's obvious scum. We should lynch him, then deduce the remainder next phase. Top scum reads are:

Jon
Khaos
NOTC
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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9/20/2013 11:01:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/20/2013 10:57:13 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

Drafter is now saying he has no idea why TA said that, which means he is not hider.

No it doesn't.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/20/2013 11:02:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/20/2013 10:57:01 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 9/20/2013 10:43:33 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/20/2013 10:39:49 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 9/19/2013 11:23:22 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
The way I see it, Drafter/F-16 are either lying about their role (perhaps SK) or they are hider.

Ok, I see last DP where TA soft-claimed Hider. But what is the utility/purpose of this statement. It's true for everyone that claims. Everyone is either lying about the role they claimed or is the actually the role they claimed. It seems like the only purpose of this statement is to make us look scummy for something that applies to everyone without actually calling us scummy or having to make an argument that we are scummy.

As it is, I see no reason that we need to provide our role submissions at this point in time, except to say that Jon is not confirmed and we don't know why TA said that he was.

So, to be clear, you are not vouching for Jon, saying that he is 100% town, as TA was?

Correct.

Are you, in fact, saying you are not hider?

No, I'm not saying that.

If so, my vote is going back on Jon.

BTW, the timing of our posts is pretty funny.

I answer your questions, now answer mine:

What is the utility/purpose of saying that we're either the role we implied we were or we're lying (along with the out-of-the-blue mentioning that we could be SK, which also can apply to anyone)?

As I said in a short post which you might have missed, your results will lead to POE, which is beneficial.
Outing your hider role is beneficial so we know what the scum team looks like, since it depends on power roles. Hider is a role that needs no protection and can help eliminate the field of suspects.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/20/2013 11:07:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/20/2013 11:01:37 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 9/20/2013 10:57:13 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

Drafter is now saying he has no idea why TA said that, which means he is not hider.

No it doesn't.

Then I misinterpreted the meaning within the context.
My work here is, finally, done.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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9/20/2013 11:10:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/20/2013 11:02:44 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

What is the utility/purpose of saying that we're either the role we implied we were or we're lying (along with the out-of-the-blue mentioning that we could be SK, which also can apply to anyone)?

As I said in a short post which you might have missed, your results will lead to POE, which is beneficial.

That's not the question I'm asking. What is the point of noting that we're either telling the truth or we're lying. That's a given. Why state it?

Outing your hider role is beneficial so we know what the scum team looks like, since it depends on power roles. Hider is a role that needs no protection and can help eliminate the field of suspects.
Khaos_Mage
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9/20/2013 11:14:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/20/2013 11:10:38 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 9/20/2013 11:02:44 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

What is the utility/purpose of saying that we're either the role we implied we were or we're lying (along with the out-of-the-blue mentioning that we could be SK, which also can apply to anyone)?

As I said in a short post which you might have missed, your results will lead to POE, which is beneficial.

That's not the question I'm asking. What is the point of noting that we're either telling the truth or we're lying. That's a given. Why state it?

Oh, because it may tie you to Jon if you are both scum.
TA said this to confirm Jon, so scum are protected.
TA not dying is explained, and Jon is above suspicion (and doc'd) because he is verified.
This is what happens if you are lying.

If you are telling the truth, then you both are town.
This was, of course, assuming that you are hider and TA hid behind Jon, which appears to not be the case.

Outing your hider role is beneficial so we know what the scum team looks like, since it depends on power roles. Hider is a role that needs no protection and can help eliminate the field of suspects.
My work here is, finally, done.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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9/20/2013 11:16:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
BTW, this is why TN05 should be lynched:

#1: He wants to lynched blackhawk for behavior he engaged him himself:

His rationale for voting blackhawk/bossy:

At 9/16/2013 5:04:37 PM, TN05 wrote:

Once again - I am pushing for Blackhawk (bossy's replacement) to be lynched. We have a confirmed, textual, in-game example of Bossy saying he wants to lynch Jon, if he didn't full claim (which he already had done) and/or his role is 'scummy' or 'useless'. That right there is stupid, anti-town play - this is a semi-open setup, so we know all possible roles, as does the mafia and TP. The likelihood of choosing a 'scummy' role is literally 0. Similarly, lynching someone because their role is 'useless' (ie. vanilla) is bizarre and nonsensical - it does not help town to lynch vanilla town just for being vanilla town.

http://www.debate.org...

Yet, in that same phase, he voted us because...

At 9/10/2013 3:36:18 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 9/10/2013 3:25:43 PM, Yraelz wrote:
At 9/10/2013 2:55:00 PM, TN05 wrote:
Basically policy lynch for me.

What policy are you following? You think F16/Drafter are town?

It's quite simple, really - if they are mafia, great. If they are town, we aren't losing anything at all and we are getting rid of a distraction that is harming town.

http://www.debate.org...

So, bossy wanted to lynch Jon for being scummy, even if Jon was vanilla Town, and that makes bossy scum, but when TN05 wants to lynch us for being scummy, even if we were vanilla Town, it's fine.

Also, from last phase:

At 9/17/2013 6:09:21 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 9/17/2013 6:04:46 PM, Sparkies wrote:
SEE it's only who HE wants to lynch, not any logical conclutions. He's attempted to protect FT/Yraelz and trying to focus our attention on someone else for no reason.

And it's not like Drafterman/F-16 are heavily targeting someone they want to lynch, is it? My vote make sense, unlike this lynch they are pushing which is basically a revenge lynch.

To the rest - if Yrealz flips scum, I'm still not sure at all Drafterman/F-16 are town. They seem to believe everyone who voted against them is mafia and want to systematically eliminate them, despite other people (ie. Blackhawk) being more suspicious. I fully expect to be the next target because I voted against them and am not voting how they want, and after that I expect Jon, Khaos, and Johnny will be targeted. Sparkies may also be targeted for his vote, but if they are scum I would be Sparkies is the scum buddy.

http://www.debate.org...

And yet he's all apologetic. He knows he can't get us lynched, so has to make nice, and can only really go after blackhawk. Not going to happen.
drafterman
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9/20/2013 11:17:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/20/2013 11:14:55 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/20/2013 11:10:38 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 9/20/2013 11:02:44 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

What is the utility/purpose of saying that we're either the role we implied we were or we're lying (along with the out-of-the-blue mentioning that we could be SK, which also can apply to anyone)?

As I said in a short post which you might have missed, your results will lead to POE, which is beneficial.

That's not the question I'm asking. What is the point of noting that we're either telling the truth or we're lying. That's a given. Why state it?

Oh, because it may tie you to Jon if you are both scum.
TA said this to confirm Jon, so scum are protected.
TA not dying is explained, and Jon is above suspicion (and doc'd) because he is verified.
This is what happens if you are lying.

If you are telling the truth, then you both are town.
This was, of course, assuming that you are hider and TA hid behind Jon, which appears to not be the case.

Again, this is all tautological. If we're fake claiming we're probably scum. If we're telling the truth, we're Town. Is this pertinent information? Do you not think people already know this?


Outing your hider role is beneficial so we know what the scum team looks like, since it depends on power roles. Hider is a role that needs no protection and can help eliminate the field of suspects.