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Philosophers Mafia Dp4

Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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9/27/2013 9:27:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Living players:

1. Sparkies
2. Draftsr/F-282 (2) (replaced TA)
3. Shadowguynick
4. Khaos_Mage
5. Blackhawk (replaced Bossy)
6. NightofCats

Dead players:

TN05- You are Karl Marx. You are the mafia JOAT.
Roleblock: Once at night, you can roleblock a player.
Strongman: Once at night, if you perform the factional kill, it will be converted into a Strongman kill which will bypass Doctors/Jailkeepers.
Ninja: Once at night, if you perform the factional kill, it will be converted into a Ninja kill, which will bypass Trackers. You win with the mafia.

Jon- You are Jean-Francois Lyotard. You are a vanilla townie. Your weapon is your vote, you have no night action. You win with the town.

Ft/Yraelz- Frederic Jameson- 1x bus driver- mafia
Johnny- Ferdinand de Saussure- vanilla townie
Drafterman- Jean Baudrillard- vanilla townie
Budda- Friedrich Nietzsche- vigilante- town
Hatstand- Judith Butler- vanilla townie

With 6 living players it takes 4 votes to lynch.

Not counting extensions, the Dp ends Sept 30 at 10:30 AM EST

http://wiki.mafiascum.net...
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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9/27/2013 9:40:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Everyone should FULL CLAIM:

Starting with Khaos.
Ending with Shadow.

Shadow is the confirmed Townie, we hid behind him NP2. TA forfeited NP1, and we waived last NP as not to accidentally hide behind the mafia NK.

Shadow should withhold his claim to increase the potential for CC. Since Khaos is the most suspected, he should claim first (probably followed by NOTC) so they have less information with which to fake claim.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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9/27/2013 10:30:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 9:45:24 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Jurgen Habermas
Vanilla

Just for the lolz, who do you think the last mafia is?
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/27/2013 10:34:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 10:30:48 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 9/27/2013 9:45:24 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Jurgen Habermas
Vanilla

Just for the lolz, who do you think the last mafia is?

NOTC has been quite unhelpful and complaining.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/27/2013 10:37:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 10:34:40 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/27/2013 10:30:48 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 9/27/2013 9:45:24 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Jurgen Habermas
Vanilla

Just for the lolz, who do you think the last mafia is?

NOTC has been quite unhelpful and complaining.
And, of course, I'm not sold on you, either. But, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.
My work here is, finally, done.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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9/27/2013 10:48:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 10:37:29 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/27/2013 10:34:40 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/27/2013 10:30:48 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 9/27/2013 9:45:24 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Jurgen Habermas
Vanilla

Just for the lolz, who do you think the last mafia is?

NOTC has been quite unhelpful and complaining.
And, of course, I'm not sold on you, either. But, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Why? What changed between the end of last phase and now?
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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9/27/2013 10:53:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
F-16 doesn't think a mass claims is necessary. Also, a mention by Noumena suggests that trying to figure out the specific set-up is pointless/impossible.

VTL Khaos
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/27/2013 11:02:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 10:53:06 AM, drafterman wrote:
F-16 doesn't think a mass claims is necessary. Also, a mention by Noumena suggests that trying to figure out the specific set-up is pointless/impossible.

VTL Khaos

What mention?
And to answer your other question, one week of thought and the lack of NKs seems to suggest there is indeed no SK, and I never thought you and TN05 were scum together.

The only way I could see you as scum is if you and Shadow were together, and we are in MYLO. But, I don't think four mafia scenarios would have bus driver and JOAT.
My work here is, finally, done.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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9/27/2013 11:12:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 11:02:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/27/2013 10:53:06 AM, drafterman wrote:
F-16 doesn't think a mass claims is necessary. Also, a mention by Noumena suggests that trying to figure out the specific set-up is pointless/impossible.

VTL Khaos

What mention?

http://www.debate.org...

And to answer your other question, one week of thought and the lack of NKs seems to suggest there is indeed no SK, and I never thought you and TN05 were scum together.

The NK situation hasn't changed.
Regardless, you put us in the scum pile (with TN05) here:
http://www.debate.org...

But didn't come out saying we were SK until much later. So what were we if not mafia?

The only way I could see you as scum is if you and Shadow were together, and we are in MYLO. But, I don't think four mafia scenarios would have bus driver and JOAT.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/27/2013 11:23:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 11:12:44 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 9/27/2013 11:02:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/27/2013 10:53:06 AM, drafterman wrote:
F-16 doesn't think a mass claims is necessary. Also, a mention by Noumena suggests that trying to figure out the specific set-up is pointless/impossible.

VTL Khaos

What mention?
I took that to mean that he changed one of the seven random potential power roles manually. I assumed he would keep the mafia/SK allignment. Otherwise, what is the purpose of having a semi-open set up.

For example, let's say randomly, there were four trackers. I took his comment to mean that Noumena changed one tracker to a Vanilla or another power role, but either way, the mafia's roles would reflect the change.

http://www.debate.org...

And to answer your other question, one week of thought and the lack of NKs seems to suggest there is indeed no SK, and I never thought you and TN05 were scum together.

The NK situation hasn't changed.
It's another night which makes it even less probable for an SK.
Regardless, you put us in the scum pile (with TN05) here:
http://www.debate.org...
Putting you in the scum pile doesn't mean you're a team.


But didn't come out saying we were SK until much later. So what were we if not mafia?
Scum, I thought TA was scum. In that post I said all three of you were scum.

I also didn't have that revelation that you would be SK (or that you and TN05 wouldn't be the remaining members of your team) when you stated how TN05 defended FT but came out against you at the drop of a hat.
That is what convinced me you weren't mafia (or at least enough to act on it), which happened much later than that post. (if not in time then volume)

The only way I could see you as scum is if you and Shadow were together, and we are in MYLO. But, I don't think four mafia scenarios would have bus driver and JOAT.
My work here is, finally, done.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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9/27/2013 11:58:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 11:23:55 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/27/2013 11:12:44 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 9/27/2013 11:02:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/27/2013 10:53:06 AM, drafterman wrote:
F-16 doesn't think a mass claims is necessary. Also, a mention by Noumena suggests that trying to figure out the specific set-up is pointless/impossible.

VTL Khaos

What mention?
I took that to mean that he changed one of the seven random potential power roles manually. I assumed he would keep the mafia/SK allignment. Otherwise, what is the purpose of having a semi-open set up.

For example, let's say randomly, there were four trackers. I took his comment to mean that Noumena changed one tracker to a Vanilla or another power role, but either way, the mafia's roles would reflect the change.

I don't see why we should assume that over any other possible changes.


http://www.debate.org...

And to answer your other question, one week of thought and the lack of NKs seems to suggest there is indeed no SK, and I never thought you and TN05 were scum together.

The NK situation hasn't changed.
It's another night which makes it even less probable for an SK.
Regardless, you put us in the scum pile (with TN05) here:
http://www.debate.org...
Putting you in the scum pile doesn't mean you're a team.


But didn't come out saying we were SK until much later. So what were we if not mafia?
Scum, I thought TA was scum. In that post I said all three of you were scum.

Yes, but not SK. In fact, you explicitly said to F-16 that you weren't painting us as the SK. So if we were scum, but not SK, what were you saying we were?


I also didn't have that revelation that you would be SK (or that you and TN05 wouldn't be the remaining members of your team) when you stated how TN05 defended FT but came out against you at the drop of a hat.
That is what convinced me you weren't mafia (or at least enough to act on it), which happened much later than that post. (if not in time then volume)

Exactly. We had to convince you we weren't mafia. Which means you believed we were mafia. Since you also believed TN05 was scum, what - you were saying that HE was the SK? That wouldn't have explained any of his behavior though.

This is completely absurd.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/27/2013 1:56:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
As should be obvious, drafter and I strongly believe that Khaos is the last mafia.

I look forward to hearing from the replacements. Hopefully, shadowguynick and NightOfTheLivingCats are replaced by more active players who can share their analysis with us.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/27/2013 2:21:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 11:58:57 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 9/27/2013 11:23:55 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/27/2013 11:12:44 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 9/27/2013 11:02:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/27/2013 10:53:06 AM, drafterman wrote:
F-16 doesn't think a mass claims is necessary. Also, a mention by Noumena suggests that trying to figure out the specific set-up is pointless/impossible.

VTL Khaos

What mention?
I took that to mean that he changed one of the seven random potential power roles manually. I assumed he would keep the mafia/SK allignment. Otherwise, what is the purpose of having a semi-open set up.

For example, let's say randomly, there were four trackers. I took his comment to mean that Noumena changed one tracker to a Vanilla or another power role, but either way, the mafia's roles would reflect the change.

I don't see why we should assume that over any other possible changes.


http://www.debate.org...

And to answer your other question, one week of thought and the lack of NKs seems to suggest there is indeed no SK, and I never thought you and TN05 were scum together.

The NK situation hasn't changed.
It's another night which makes it even less probable for an SK.
Regardless, you put us in the scum pile (with TN05) here:
http://www.debate.org...
Putting you in the scum pile doesn't mean you're a team.


But didn't come out saying we were SK until much later. So what were we if not mafia?
Scum, I thought TA was scum. In that post I said all three of you were scum.

Yes, but not SK. In fact, you explicitly said to F-16 that you weren't painting us as the SK. So if we were scum, but not SK, what were you saying we were?

At the time I wasn't calling you SK, I later decided it was the only reason for TA/your behavior, thus I then decided you were.
TA's behavior was scummy, by your own definition.
So, I am scum for seeing scummy behavior and calling it out? Then, upon deciding there isn't an SK, and with the DP realizing you and TN05 are not scummates, giving you a town read, I am read as scummy.
What the hell is wrong with you?

Besically, it doesn't matter what I say or what I thought or anything, because you twist it all to somehow make me scum.



I also didn't have that revelation that you would be SK (or that you and TN05 wouldn't be the remaining members of your team) when you stated how TN05 defended FT but came out against you at the drop of a hat.
That is what convinced me you weren't mafia (or at least enough to act on it), which happened much later than that post. (if not in time then volume)

Exactly. We had to convince you we weren't mafia. Which means you believed we were mafia. Since you also believed TN05 was scum, what - you were saying that HE was the SK? That wouldn't have explained any of his behavior though.

This is completely absurd.
Which is why I changed my mind.
So...listening to reason and/or having you convince me of my error is now scummy?
My work here is, finally, done.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/27/2013 2:27:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The below is extremely scummy:

Besically, it doesn't matter what I say or what I thought or anything, because you twist it all to somehow make me scum.

You continue to try and discredit our reads and say that we are twisting information even after you claim that you read us as town. If you think we are town, why wouldn't you try to convince us without making accusations?

If you believe us to be twisting information, why do you have a townread on us? Twisting info is scummy, isn't it?

You know you can't call us scum after FT/Y's and TN05's flip so you are adopting a lot of the same tactics of TN05 by trying to discredit our reads. For instance, calling the lynch of FT/Y a "vengeance lynch" and now saying that we are "twisting" information while maintaining a townread on us.

To add to all this, there was your absurd defense of TN05 based on speculation of there being an SK when there was no evidence at all of an SK ever existing.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/27/2013 2:30:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Also, the appeal to emotion BS, "look at these vets! They are twisting information to lynch me" makes little context since we haven't been wrong a single time this game.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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9/27/2013 2:30:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 2:21:56 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/27/2013 11:58:57 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 9/27/2013 11:23:55 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/27/2013 11:12:44 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 9/27/2013 11:02:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/27/2013 10:53:06 AM, drafterman wrote:
F-16 doesn't think a mass claims is necessary. Also, a mention by Noumena suggests that trying to figure out the specific set-up is pointless/impossible.

VTL Khaos

What mention?
I took that to mean that he changed one of the seven random potential power roles manually. I assumed he would keep the mafia/SK allignment. Otherwise, what is the purpose of having a semi-open set up.

For example, let's say randomly, there were four trackers. I took his comment to mean that Noumena changed one tracker to a Vanilla or another power role, but either way, the mafia's roles would reflect the change.

I don't see why we should assume that over any other possible changes.


http://www.debate.org...

And to answer your other question, one week of thought and the lack of NKs seems to suggest there is indeed no SK, and I never thought you and TN05 were scum together.

The NK situation hasn't changed.
It's another night which makes it even less probable for an SK.
Regardless, you put us in the scum pile (with TN05) here:
http://www.debate.org...
Putting you in the scum pile doesn't mean you're a team.


But didn't come out saying we were SK until much later. So what were we if not mafia?
Scum, I thought TA was scum. In that post I said all three of you were scum.

Yes, but not SK. In fact, you explicitly said to F-16 that you weren't painting us as the SK. So if we were scum, but not SK, what were you saying we were?

At the time I wasn't calling you SK, I later decided it was the only reason for TA/your behavior, thus I then decided you were.
TA's behavior was scummy, by your own definition.
So, I am scum for seeing scummy behavior and calling it out? Then, upon deciding there isn't an SK, and with the DP realizing you and TN05 are not scummates, giving you a town read, I am read as scummy.
What the hell is wrong with you?

Besically, it doesn't matter what I say or what I thought or anything, because you twist it all to somehow make me scum.



I also didn't have that revelation that you would be SK (or that you and TN05 wouldn't be the remaining members of your team) when you stated how TN05 defended FT but came out against you at the drop of a hat.
That is what convinced me you weren't mafia (or at least enough to act on it), which happened much later than that post. (if not in time then volume)

Exactly. We had to convince you we weren't mafia. Which means you believed we were mafia. Since you also believed TN05 was scum, what - you were saying that HE was the SK? That wouldn't have explained any of his behavior though.

This is completely absurd.
Which is why I changed my mind.
So...listening to reason and/or having you convince me of my error is now scummy?

I'm not criticizing you for changing your mind (nor was I ever criticizing you for "sentence structure" lol). You seem to have made your web of deception so tangled you can't even keep track of it. Let's recap:

This is the statement in question:
"I never thought you and TN05 were scum together."

Now, the only "scum" that is together are the mafia.

Going back to last phase, you said:
"[TN05]'s in the scum pile, but so are you and Jon."
http://www.debate.org...

So, at this point in time, TN05 and I were both in the scum pile. But, also, you didn't believe us to be SK:
"At the time I wasn't calling you SK"

So, we were scum, but not SK. That only leaves Mafia. So unless you were trying to suggest that TN05 was the SK then you were, in fact, implying that we were "scum together."

Or you could just admit that you're the last scum so we can end the game. I mean, seriously, do you think you have a chance?

As it is, I'm going to take apart everything you have to say and demonstrate how it all paints you as scum.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/27/2013 2:59:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 2:27:42 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
The below is extremely scummy:

Besically, it doesn't matter what I say or what I thought or anything, because you twist it all to somehow make me scum.

You continue to try and discredit our reads and say that we are twisting information even after you claim that you read us as town. If you think we are town, why wouldn't you try to convince us without making accusations?
I am saying what you are doing.
You, or rather Drafter, are simply tunneling me. You/He'll say anything that bolsters his case, even if it is contradictory.

If you believe us to be twisting information, why do you have a townread on us? Twisting info is scummy, isn't it?

Because it's what you veterans do to me.
You twist what I say.
I'm 90% sure there is no malice in your intentions.
How often am I mislynched as town by town?

You know you can't call us scum after FT/Y's and TN05's flip so you are adopting a lot of the same tactics of TN05 by trying to discredit our reads. For instance, calling the lynch of FT/Y a "vengeance lynch" and now saying that we are "twisting" information while maintaining a townread on us.

When did I call it a vengeance lynch?
I remember saying that your push on FT was null, but I don't recall saying it was vengeful.

To add to all this, there was your absurd defense of TN05 based on speculation of there being an SK when there was no evidence at all of an SK ever existing.

It wasn't a defense.
If there were two factions of scum and you could knowingly eliminate one or weaken the other, which would you prefer? The fact that we disagreed of the existence of SK is irrelevant, since we are taking about my motivation.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/27/2013 3:04:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 2:30:21 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Also, the appeal to emotion BS, "look at these vets! They are twisting information to lynch me" makes little context since we haven't been wrong a single time this game.

False.
Look at DP1.
Drafter scum read me and you town read me. This means one of you were wrong at that time.
By the way, does anyone want to tell me what exactly I did that was scummy DP1? The only thing I can think of was voting for you.

And, again, it isn't that you are twisting information to get me mislynched. I believe you genuinely believe I am scum, so you are looking at anything (like my fvcking work choice last DP) to build your case.

It's not an appeal to emotion, it is a simple statement of fact. Drafter seems to be all over the map in his attempt to lynch me.
I'm scum for scum reading him, by his own admission that liars are likely to be scum.
I'm then scum for agreeing with him about TN05, thus saying you are not mafia.
I'm still scum for now town reading you for having excluded the possibility of you being mafia, and not believing there is an SK.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/27/2013 3:16:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 2:30:25 PM, drafterman wrote:

I'm not criticizing you for changing your mind (nor was I ever criticizing you for "sentence structure" lol). You seem to have made your web of deception so tangled you can't even keep track of it. Let's recap:

This is the statement in question:
"I never thought you and TN05 were scum together."

Now, the only "scum" that is together are the mafia.

Going back to last phase, you said:
"[TN05]'s in the scum pile, but so are you and Jon."
http://www.debate.org...
Wouldn't the word choice imply that you and Jon were lumped together?
I didn't really know what I thought at the time.
I was just running with your point that TA lied, and liars are likely scum.
As evidenced throughout last DP, the more I thought about it, the more solidified my reads became. Which leads me to my town read on you.

So, at this point in time, TN05 and I were both in the scum pile. But, also, you didn't believe us to be SK:
"At the time I wasn't calling you SK"

So, we were scum, but not SK. That only leaves Mafia. So unless you were trying to suggest that TN05 was the SK then you were, in fact, implying that we were "scum together."

Yes, there was that possibility I was exploring. However, as you said, TN05's actions didn't really make sense from a SK standpoint, so I decided you had to be SK, given TA's lies. Why do you not take your convincing me of things into account?

There was always the possibility that you constructed the flame war with TN05 for town cred. However, this is WIFOM and unlikely.


Or you could just admit that you're the last scum so we can end the game. I mean, seriously, do you think you have a chance?
If I was the last scum, the game would be over.
If I was a townie, not really, since the DP will likely end in my lynch, if for no other reason to move the game along.
I am viewing this as sparring practice.

As it is, I'm going to take apart everything you have to say and demonstrate how it all paints you as scum.

Bring it on ;)
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/27/2013 3:57:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 3:50:00 PM, drafterman wrote:
My point that TA lied? Where did I say TA lied?

Seriously?!?!?!?
At the beginning of DP3, when you said you didn't know why TA said he hid behind JonMilne?
That was the whole reason why I initially scum read you last DP.

Post 10: (this is also where you were criticizing my word use/sentence structure)
At 9/20/2013 10:39:49 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 9/19/2013 11:23:22 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
The way I see it, Drafter/F-16 are either lying about their role (perhaps SK) or they are hider.

Ok, I see last DP where TA soft-claimed Hider. But what is the utility/purpose of this statement. It's true for everyone that claims. Everyone is either lying about the role they claimed or is the actually the role they claimed. It seems like the only purpose of this statement is to make us look scummy for something that applies to everyone without actually calling us scummy or having to make an argument that we are scummy.

As it is, I see no reason that we need to provide our role submissions at this point in time, except to say that Jon is not confirmed and we don't know why TA said that he was.
My work here is, finally, done.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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9/27/2013 4:08:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 3:57:51 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/27/2013 3:50:00 PM, drafterman wrote:
My point that TA lied? Where did I say TA lied?

Seriously?!?!?!?
At the beginning of DP3, when you said you didn't know why TA said he hid behind JonMilne?

Yeah. I dont know. Personally i think it was a miscommunication between him and the mod, not a lie.

So, again, where did i say he lied (knowingly told a falsehood).

That was the whole reason why I initially scum read you last DP.

Post 10: (this is also where you were criticizing my word use/sentence structure)
At 9/20/2013 10:39:49 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 9/19/2013 11:23:22 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
The way I see it, Drafter/F-16 are either lying about their role (perhaps SK) or they are hider.

Ok, I see last DP where TA soft-claimed Hider. But what is the utility/purpose of this statement. It's true for everyone that claims. Everyone is either lying about the role they claimed or is the actually the role they claimed. It seems like the only purpose of this statement is to make us look scummy for something that applies to everyone without actually calling us scummy or having to make an argument that we are scummy.

As it is, I see no reason that we need to provide our role submissions at this point in time, except to say that Jon is not confirmed and we don't know why TA said that he was.

TA didnt lie about his role. we are a hider.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/27/2013 4:12:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 4:08:10 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 9/27/2013 3:57:51 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/27/2013 3:50:00 PM, drafterman wrote:
My point that TA lied? Where did I say TA lied?

Seriously?!?!?!?
At the beginning of DP3, when you said you didn't know why TA said he hid behind JonMilne?

Yeah. I dont know. Personally i think it was a miscommunication between him and the mod, not a lie.

So, again, where did i say he lied (knowingly told a falsehood).
Right, you did state you thought this was the case, but why should I (or anyone) believed you at the time?

However, you sure as hell implied he lied, by saying TA is a known troll.
So, which is it: TA is a troll who lies and plays oddly, or a compentant player who made a mistake, or both, or neither?

That was the whole reason why I initially scum read you last DP.

Post 10: (this is also where you were criticizing my word use/sentence structure)
At 9/20/2013 10:39:49 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 9/19/2013 11:23:22 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
The way I see it, Drafter/F-16 are either lying about their role (perhaps SK) or they are hider.

Ok, I see last DP where TA soft-claimed Hider. But what is the utility/purpose of this statement. It's true for everyone that claims. Everyone is either lying about the role they claimed or is the actually the role they claimed. It seems like the only purpose of this statement is to make us look scummy for something that applies to everyone without actually calling us scummy or having to make an argument that we are scummy.

As it is, I see no reason that we need to provide our role submissions at this point in time, except to say that Jon is not confirmed and we don't know why TA said that he was.

TA didnt lie about his role. we are a hider.
At the time, you hadn't revealed that, had you?
My work here is, finally, done.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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9/27/2013 4:18:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Khaos, you didn't say that it was "vengeance lynch," TN05 did. You are claiming that we are twisting information. In his case, we know he was scum trying to discredit us. In your case, we believe it is scum trying to discredit us.

Drafter has been saying nothing that is contradictory. His logic has made perfect sense. Throwing around buzzwords doesn't take away from the mountain of evidence amassed at you during DP3.

Tunneling: of course we are. There is likely only 1 scum left and we are massively confident that it is you.

I don't care how often you are mislynched by town as town. I am certain that this is not one of those times.

The fact that you claimed there was an SK is not irrelevant. I explained to you over and over why the chances of an SK were infinitesimal. You ignored it and continued pushing rubbish arguments to lynch anyone other than TN05.

We were right about every read we have pushed a lynch on so far: FT/Y and TN05.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/27/2013 4:27:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 4:18:11 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Khaos, you didn't say that it was "vengeance lynch," TN05 did. You are claiming that we are twisting information. In his case, we know he was scum trying to discredit us. In your case, we believe it is scum trying to discredit us.
So, don't lump me in with scum's quotes. Simple as that.

Drafter has been saying nothing that is contradictory. His logic has made perfect sense. Throwing around buzzwords doesn't take away from the mountain of evidence amassed at you during DP3.
Then why does he seem to be saying that it is scummy to town read you now, even though last DP I admitted I didn't think you were mafia?

Tunneling: of course we are. There is likely only 1 scum left and we are massively confident that it is you.


I don't care how often you are mislynched by town as town. I am certain that this is not one of those times.

My point is the arguments that are made here are the same ones used to cause mislynches. If you are to say you need to look at motivations, then look at motivations, not through the eyes of someone who is advocating something stupid (the existence of SK).
You were seeming to give Jon the benefit of the doubt for using your hydra as evidence of your guilt. Isn't the player's behavior that is to be analyzed? How is my behavior different?

You could start by saying why elimination of one faction is less important than weakening the second.

The fact that you claimed there was an SK is not irrelevant. I explained to you over and over why the chances of an SK were infinitesimal. You ignored it and continued pushing rubbish arguments to lynch anyone other than TN05.

It was still too soon to rule it out, as an SK would have targeted either FT or Hatstand NP1. We don't even know if there are doctors in the game, so we don't know any possibiity. However, the chances of a doc saving a two consecutive NKs is highly unlikely.

Just because you ruled it out when you did, doesn't mean I am scum for not having done so.
Besides, as Drafter noted, isn't my meta to be conspiratorial? As such, wouldn't it take more to convince me of the non-existence of TP?

We were right about every read we have pushed a lynch on so far: FT/Y and TN05.

Agreed, until now.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/27/2013 5:06:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well, it looks like sparring time is over.
I doubt I will be able to do much until Sunday afternoon (another pet expo tomorrow), so if you must, lynch me and move on to the next DP.
My work here is, finally, done.
blackhawk1331
Posts: 4,932
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9/27/2013 5:12:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't really have that much to say. I believe khaos is scum, as I said last dp. From last dp, his "I'll lynch TN05 if I have to" has me convinced, and from this dp, his defence of himself. He hasn't really argued why his actions have been town sided, imo. He's more been arguing that F-16/drafter are wrong and trying to make everything he does seem scummy. He also complained about how he always gets mislynched as town for how he's playing here. Considering that there's only one vote on him, VTL Khaos. I say "considering that there's only one vote on him" because I wouldn't have cast my vote if there were two because I want everyone to have a chance to offer their opinions.

Also, khaos, if this behavior always gets you lynched, play different. Whining about it won't fix anything, and we're not going to say "oh, khaos always gets mislynched for this behavior, so let's not lynch him."
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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9/27/2013 9:04:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/27/2013 11:02:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/27/2013 10:53:06 AM, drafterman wrote:
F-16 doesn't think a mass claims is necessary. Also, a mention by Noumena suggests that trying to figure out the specific set-up is pointless/impossible.

VTL Khaos

What mention?
And to answer your other question, one week of thought and the lack of NKs seems to suggest there is indeed no SK, and I never thought you and TN05 were scum together.

The only way I could see you as scum is if you and Shadow were together, and we are in MYLO. But, I don't think four mafia scenarios would have bus driver and JOAT.

What four mafia scenario?
Sparkies
Posts: 652
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9/27/2013 9:54:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Damn it , TN05 was JOAT,Guees my role is half useless at finding the scum as its only a goon now. BTW I am Jacques Derrida, and am the rolecop. VTL Khaos
I got him as a vanilla in my last read. Since 3 townies are dead, seems highly likely that this Vanilla is the goon.