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Balancing

TUF
Posts: 21,310
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11/12/2013 1:02:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
To all Mafia Mods- Lately I have been noticing a trend that once verily commonly plagued mafia games; It has always been there occasionally, but I think for the most part mods learned to avoid doing it after several games. I think there has been a pretty big problem with balancing teams out in creating mafia games. I understand why this problem still occurs, though. If you think of a good theme, you can generally think of good roles to go along with the characters. However, the problem is, I think, that a lot of mods don"t actually think of the effects of the aftermath. I have made plenty of games myself a while back, where I did similar things, but I learned the hard way that careful consideration must be used in the creation of a mafia game.

A good way to counter running into this problem would be to carefully count out the players on each team. Run through multiple scenarios of each party being lynched, or killed. Consider the effects of all roles. Find the worst possible scenarios that could happen, imagine how you would feel as a player having it happen to you, and make any changes you can such that you can evaluate the game fairly. Just because a certain role fits well with a characters description in the theme you are depicting, doesn"t necessarily mean you should have to do it, if it outbalances a team. If you have to, be creative and find a role that makes the game more fair to attach the character you have. I personally feel like role justification shouldn"t be as important as player behavior anyway, when I play because how can you predict that a mod will word and design every role exactly the same (I have seen many people make this mistake by jumping to this conclusion)?

I personally wouldn"t mind playing a game with all vanillas and all goons. I know many other people don"t though, because part of the excitement of mafia is getting a cool role (it shouldn"t be, but whatever that is just my opinion). Everytime I put multiple vanillas in my games, I notice that I do not get much activity from those players. Oh well.

"

TL;DR

Carefully think about every aspect that could throw a game before you start balancing roles into the game. The game will be more enjoyable for the players and the mods.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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11/12/2013 1:54:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I usually do all of the things listed. That's why in my games, the swing is so low i.e. regardless of roles, town would still need to mislynch 3-5 times to lose, etc.

I think a game with all vanillas isn't too bad. I'd love to play one. Mafia is all about psychology and manipulation. Roles mess with that. I've had the same problems (mostly from players like Budda, Budda, and Budda) who leave the game because they got treestumped etc.
TUF
Posts: 21,310
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11/12/2013 4:34:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/12/2013 1:54:58 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I usually do all of the things listed. That's why in my games, the swing is so low i.e. regardless of roles, town would still need to mislynch 3-5 times to lose, etc.

I think a game with all vanillas isn't too bad. I'd love to play one. Mafia is all about psychology and manipulation. Roles mess with that. I've had the same problems (mostly from players like Budda, Budda, and Budda) who leave the game because they got treestumped etc.

F-16 is one to ask for help from if you need help balancing a game, I dont think ive ever played in one of his that I thought wasn't sqaure. But I agree with everything you said.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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11/12/2013 9:06:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/12/2013 1:54:58 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I usually do all of the things listed. That's why in my games, the swing is so low i.e. regardless of roles, town would still need to mislynch 3-5 times to lose, etc.

I think a game with all vanillas isn't too bad. I'd love to play one. Mafia is all about psychology and manipulation. Roles mess with that. I've had the same problems (mostly from players like Budda, Budda, and Budda) who leave the game because they got treestumped etc.

What is tree stumped?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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11/12/2013 9:50:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/12/2013 9:06:55 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 11/12/2013 1:54:58 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I usually do all of the things listed. That's why in my games, the swing is so low i.e. regardless of roles, town would still need to mislynch 3-5 times to lose, etc.

I think a game with all vanillas isn't too bad. I'd love to play one. Mafia is all about psychology and manipulation. Roles mess with that. I've had the same problems (mostly from players like Budda, Budda, and Budda) who leave the game because they got treestumped etc.

What is tree stumped?

Not having a role I.e., just being vanilla
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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11/12/2013 9:51:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/12/2013 9:50:23 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 11/12/2013 9:06:55 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 11/12/2013 1:54:58 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I usually do all of the things listed. That's why in my games, the swing is so low i.e. regardless of roles, town would still need to mislynch 3-5 times to lose, etc.

I think a game with all vanillas isn't too bad. I'd love to play one. Mafia is all about psychology and manipulation. Roles mess with that. I've had the same problems (mostly from players like Budda, Budda, and Budda) who leave the game because they got treestumped etc.

What is tree stumped?

Not having a role I.e., just being vanilla

Why did we give it a new name?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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11/12/2013 9:55:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/12/2013 9:51:39 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 11/12/2013 9:50:23 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 11/12/2013 9:06:55 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 11/12/2013 1:54:58 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I usually do all of the things listed. That's why in my games, the swing is so low i.e. regardless of roles, town would still need to mislynch 3-5 times to lose, etc.

I think a game with all vanillas isn't too bad. I'd love to play one. Mafia is all about psychology and manipulation. Roles mess with that. I've had the same problems (mostly from players like Budda, Budda, and Budda) who leave the game because they got treestumped etc.

What is tree stumped?

Not having a role I.e., just being vanilla

Why did we give it a new name?

I think it's from Epicmafia wherein it takes on a broader meaning. That is, not being elevated to simply a given role but can also refer to any set of circumstances that leaves one roleless. At least that's what I think.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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11/12/2013 9:57:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/12/2013 9:56:29 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Okay, now back to Star Wars!

I was enjoying the break though.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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11/12/2013 10:03:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/12/2013 10:00:21 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Tree Stump has no vote in addition to being a vanilla. "Tree-Stumped" means to lose your role and be made into a tree-stump.

Okay, that makes sense.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
TUF
Posts: 21,310
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11/13/2013 5:26:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/12/2013 9:50:23 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 11/12/2013 9:06:55 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 11/12/2013 1:54:58 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I usually do all of the things listed. That's why in my games, the swing is so low i.e. regardless of roles, town would still need to mislynch 3-5 times to lose, etc.

I think a game with all vanillas isn't too bad. I'd love to play one. Mafia is all about psychology and manipulation. Roles mess with that. I've had the same problems (mostly from players like Budda, Budda, and Budda) who leave the game because they got treestumped etc.

What is tree stumped?

Not having a role I.e., just being vanilla

Dude vallina is the most powerful role in the game. What are they complaining about?
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
Posts: 21,310
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11/13/2013 5:27:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/13/2013 1:32:39 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
We should definitely get an all-vanilla game going. I'd really like to play one.

I might make my next one all vanilla if you would play
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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11/13/2013 7:11:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/13/2013 5:26:27 AM, TUF wrote:
At 11/12/2013 9:50:23 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 11/12/2013 9:06:55 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 11/12/2013 1:54:58 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I usually do all of the things listed. That's why in my games, the swing is so low i.e. regardless of roles, town would still need to mislynch 3-5 times to lose, etc.

I think a game with all vanillas isn't too bad. I'd love to play one. Mafia is all about psychology and manipulation. Roles mess with that. I've had the same problems (mostly from players like Budda, Budda, and Budda) who leave the game because they got treestumped etc.

What is tree stumped?

Not having a role I.e., just being vanilla

Dude vallina is the most powerful role in the game. What are they complaining about?

I dunno. I don't think it's the *most* powerful inasmuch as noting is absolute given the variance of possible scenarios in the game- though I don't think it's entirely a bum wrap either.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
TUF
Posts: 21,310
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11/14/2013 12:51:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/13/2013 7:11:20 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 11/13/2013 5:26:27 AM, TUF wrote:
At 11/12/2013 9:50:23 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 11/12/2013 9:06:55 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 11/12/2013 1:54:58 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I usually do all of the things listed. That's why in my games, the swing is so low i.e. regardless of roles, town would still need to mislynch 3-5 times to lose, etc.

I think a game with all vanillas isn't too bad. I'd love to play one. Mafia is all about psychology and manipulation. Roles mess with that. I've had the same problems (mostly from players like Budda, Budda, and Budda) who leave the game because they got treestumped etc.

What is tree stumped?

Not having a role I.e., just being vanilla

Dude vallina is the most powerful role in the game. What are they complaining about?

I dunno. I don't think it's the *most* powerful inasmuch as noting is absolute given the variance of possible scenarios in the game- though I don't think it's entirely a bum wrap either.

But then again, what do you know, right? Right? High five? No...? Okay...
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227