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The Matrix Mafia DP6

JonMilne
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11/18/2013 2:32:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Lynched in DP5

There were no deaths in this period.

Died in NP5

TN05 -- Trinity

"No? Let me tell you what I believe. I believe that Morpheus means more to me than he does to you. I believe if you are really serious about rescuing him, you are going to need my help. And since I am the ranking officer on this ship, if you don't like it, I believe you can go to hell. Because you're not going anywhere else. Tank, load us up."

You are Trinity, ranking officer of the Nebuchadnezzar and the woman who will fall in love with the One. You are committed fully to helping Zion, to the point where you will follow the One wherever he goes, even if it means your death. You are the Bodyguard. Each night you will select a player, and if any lethal actions are aimed at that player, they will get redirected to you. You win with ZION.

Previously Killed

1. TA -- Agent Smith -- Cult Leader -- 3rd Party Cult
2. Yraelz -- Tank -- Watcher -- Zion
3. srehtiw -- Agent Brown -- Redirector -- Machines
4. thedebatekid -- Sati -- Innocent Child -- Zion
5. Sparkies -- The Oracle -- Oracle -- Zion
6. Khaos Mage -- Seraph -- Seraph Knight -- Zion

Player List

1. TUF
2. Bladerunner060
3. Hatstand -- Cop -- Zion

With 3 players, it takes 2 votes to lynch. This DP will last no later than 9am DD0 Time on Thursday the 21st of November.
Hatstand
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11/18/2013 3:08:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
(Taken from DP2 OP)

You are Agent Smith, originally an Agent of the Matrix, who after being destroyed by Neo then became an Exile program and manifested as a computer virus, allowing him the ability to create multiple copies of himself. You are willing to take over the entire core network in your bid to kill the one who killed you. You are the Cult Leader. Each night you may convert another player into a Cultist. You and all cultists share a PM and win when you and the living cultists are in the majority. The responsibility for choosing who gets converted into the cult will always be your decision. If you as the Cult Leader die, all your cultists will die with you. Death will also happen if you attempt to convert anyone resistant to Cults.

This pretty much confirms that there is someone resistant to cults, and it only makes sense that it would be Neo. I'm not rushing into anything until I've had a chance to look everything over, but I'd say that this is pretty good evidence for Blade's role.
TUF
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11/18/2013 3:15:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
This is so so stupid. I KNOW that blade is scum and CANT say why. How the he11 am I supposed to play the game when every aspect of my role prevents me from doing so? My role almost guarantees my death and the towns loss this phase. Hatstand the ball is in your court. All I can tell you is I hope you take my word on it. Either way, I consider this a town win even if I die.

VTL bladerunner.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
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11/18/2013 3:17:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 3:08:20 AM, Hatstand wrote:
(Taken from DP2 OP)

You are Agent Smith, originally an Agent of the Matrix, who after being destroyed by Neo then became an Exile program and manifested as a computer virus, allowing him the ability to create multiple copies of himself. You are willing to take over the entire core network in your bid to kill the one who killed you. You are the Cult Leader. Each night you may convert another player into a Cultist. You and all cultists share a PM and win when you and the living cultists are in the majority. The responsibility for choosing who gets converted into the cult will always be your decision. If you as the Cult Leader die, all your cultists will die with you. Death will also happen if you attempt to convert anyone resistant to Cults.

This pretty much confirms that there is someone resistant to cults, and it only makes sense that it would be Neo. I'm not rushing into anything until I've had a chance to look everything over, but I'd say that this is pretty good evidence for Blade's role.

Please look at DP2 and analyze my behavior in regards to a certain occurence. Think about my small hint in DDP1. I hope you figure this out :(
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Hatstand
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11/18/2013 3:45:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 3:17:03 AM, TUF wrote:
At 11/18/2013 3:08:20 AM, Hatstand wrote:
(Taken from DP2 OP)

You are Agent Smith, originally an Agent of the Matrix, who after being destroyed by Neo then became an Exile program and manifested as a computer virus, allowing him the ability to create multiple copies of himself. You are willing to take over the entire core network in your bid to kill the one who killed you. You are the Cult Leader. Each night you may convert another player into a Cultist. You and all cultists share a PM and win when you and the living cultists are in the majority. The responsibility for choosing who gets converted into the cult will always be your decision. If you as the Cult Leader die, all your cultists will die with you. Death will also happen if you attempt to convert anyone resistant to Cults.

This pretty much confirms that there is someone resistant to cults, and it only makes sense that it would be Neo. I'm not rushing into anything until I've had a chance to look everything over, but I'd say that this is pretty good evidence for Blade's role.

Please look at DP2 and analyze my behavior in regards to a certain occurence. Think about my small hint in DDP1. I hope you figure this out :(

If by small hint, you mean your supposed soft claim, I still can't find it.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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11/18/2013 9:42:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
VTL TUF.

I'm assuming TUF's role is something like he's not allowed to fake claim. Because he is scum.

It's up to you, Hatstand--this game is a win or loss based on your decision.

I would like to note: I role claimed early, when it should have been obvious that I would get CCd--Neo is such an obvious role that I would have to be a complete idiot to have claimed it, particularly when there's such a wealth of other characters I could have fake claimed, if that's what I was going to do. I have also helped, both initially (when I outed the TP), and in general.

Meanwhile TUF's participation has been limited, at best--I don't think he's been actually helping to find scum. He's been "playing catchup" pretty much every single DP. He claims to have made a soft claim that no one can find. Somehow, he wasn't any of the major town-expected characters, yet he has a role where he's not allowed to claim? This is a themed game--what possible role could he have that would be town? The only one I could have bought was Morpheus, but you're Morpheus. WTH else could he be that would have such a weird role?

My personal guess is that he's Architect--and that he cannot make a fake claim about his role, in keeping with the manner the Architect behaved (I am under the impression that he never lied--I am not such an expert on the movies that I can be absolutely certain of that).
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TUF
Posts: 21,297
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11/18/2013 12:04:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hats, think of what I said in DP2, think about the major events. The ball is in your park now.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Hatstand
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11/18/2013 2:39:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
TUF, would it be right to say that you are not allowed to disclose anything about your role or character? That any truths you said about it would get you mod killed per breaking the post restriction?
Sparkies
Posts: 652
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11/18/2013 8:44:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 3:36:15 PM, JonMilne wrote:
Vote Count
Bladerunner -- 1/2 -- TUF
TUF -- 1/2 -- Bladerunner

The tension in the air, who will win, the machines or the Zion? MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA in this case I like to say russian roulette.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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11/18/2013 10:18:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I was mafia in the Whiteflag NIghtless game, DP1 here:
http://www.debate.org...

I was mafia as a replacement player in the Shades of Our Lives game, DP1 here (I didn't go in until...DP2, I think? Very early, but my ability had already been used):
http://www.debate.org...

IIRC, I don't believe I was scum once in the Beginner's series--though I may be mistaken; if so, only one game at most, and there's a whole bunch in that series, so I wasn't planning on rooting through them all.

I've played: Drafter's beginner's series (15 and 16), Shades of our lives, Whiteflag Nightless Chosen, James Bond, and this.

Unless I'm missing a game, I believe that's it.
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TN05
Posts: 4,492
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11/18/2013 10:55:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 8:44:09 PM, Sparkies wrote:
At 11/18/2013 3:36:15 PM, JonMilne wrote:
Vote Count
Bladerunner -- 1/2 -- TUF
TUF -- 1/2 -- Bladerunner

The tension in the air, who will win, the machines or the Zion? MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA in this case I like to say russian roulette.

This is the biggest WIFOM ever. Two players. One town, one scum. Who will live, who will die?
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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11/18/2013 11:10:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm honestly glad (and a bit surprised it's not me) I'm not in this position.

Help us Hatstand.... you're our only hope.
My work here is, finally, done.
Hatstand
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11/18/2013 11:12:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 11:10:37 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I'm honestly glad (and a bit surprised it's not me) I'm not in this position.

Help us Hatstand.... you're our only hope.


(No pressure)

I'll give it my all.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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11/19/2013 12:28:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 11:37:10 PM, Hatstand wrote:
How many hours do I have left?

You can just look at your post time and extrapolate, since JonMilne has been kind enough to use DDO time.
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bladerunner060
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11/19/2013 12:31:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 12:28:09 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 11/18/2013 11:37:10 PM, Hatstand wrote:
How many hours do I have left?

You can just look at your post time and extrapolate, since JonMilne has been kind enough to use DDO time.

Which puts it, as of now, at like 56.5 hrs, I believe? With your post being about an hour ago, that would have been 57.5 hrs.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
TUF
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11/19/2013 1:30:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 2:39:31 PM, Hatstand wrote:
TUF, would it be right to say that you are not allowed to disclose anything about your role or character? That any truths you said about it would get you mod killed per breaking the post restriction?

Outside of what I already have and the major hints I have dropped, no. If I was mafia this is a death wish play though you can spin that as WIFOM. Its all about choice.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Hatstand
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11/19/2013 1:39:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 1:30:14 AM, TUF wrote:
At 11/18/2013 2:39:31 PM, Hatstand wrote:
TUF, would it be right to say that you are not allowed to disclose anything about your role or character? That any truths you said about it would get you mod killed per breaking the post restriction?

Outside of what I already have and the major hints I have dropped, no. If I was mafia this is a death wish play though you can spin that as WIFOM. Its all about choice.

Can you tell me the parameters around what you can and cannot tell me?
Hatstand
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11/19/2013 2:51:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 12:31:04 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 11/19/2013 12:28:09 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 11/18/2013 11:37:10 PM, Hatstand wrote:
How many hours do I have left?

You can just look at your post time and extrapolate, since JonMilne has been kind enough to use DDO time.

Which puts it, as of now, at like 56.5 hrs, I believe? With your post being about an hour ago, that would have been 57.5 hrs.

Thank you.
TUF
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11/19/2013 4:31:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 1:39:22 AM, Hatstand wrote:
At 11/19/2013 1:30:14 AM, TUF wrote:
At 11/18/2013 2:39:31 PM, Hatstand wrote:
TUF, would it be right to say that you are not allowed to disclose anything about your role or character? That any truths you said about it would get you mod killed per breaking the post restriction?

Outside of what I already have and the major hints I have dropped, no. If I was mafia this is a death wish play though you can spin that as WIFOM. Its all about choice.

Can you tell me the parameters around what you can and cannot tell me?

There is no parameters, just a rule. A rule that I have been pushing and have been warned about multiple times, such that I cannot push it any further.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
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11/19/2013 8:27:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hat's, I realize my case is extremely weak. I am sorry, but it isn't going to get much better. Also I won't blame you at all if I am mis-lynched because of this. All I can say to you is that I would never play a game like this as mafia, EVER. Of course that can seem like WIFOM to you, but I urge you to read my other games to verify what I am saying is true. Also you can cross analyze my town play in this game to my town play in other games (like star wars mafia). I would say that while I haven't been 100% my best in either of the game due to time restraints, that my behavior falls in line with my normal town behavior. Also to address bladerunner's "catch-up" comment, I will admit, that due to limitations in my role I have been VERY dis-couraged, especially after receiving FOS for 4 DP's in a row that I cannot defend myself against. It has also been aggravating that every single person has been judging my strictly based off of my lack of a claim, rather than my behavior. But I am very much as town as you are. I knew you were from DP1, and I think you are the best player to make this decision.

All I can ask is that you make you're decision based on player behavior. The last hint is that you made an assertion somewhere in the game, that is true and realizing what that assertion was might help you understand who I am in this game. I hope that is vague enough not to get me mod killed.

The decision is yours. If I die today, I will still consider this a well deserved town win because the only thing that would prevented it, is a bad mod decision pre-game, that literally takes skill out of the role.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
bladerunner060
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11/19/2013 10:54:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hatstand--you should know as well as I that it's not the case that the only faults that have been found with TUF are his lack of claim.

You have to ask what makes the most sense. What role could TUF possibly have? How would my behavior even make sense as scum? Do you feel TUF has actually been helpful finding scum? Have I? I'm not going to spend too long defending myself--it's just going to seem, well, defensive. I'm happy to answer any questions you have to help you make your decision, of course.

But seriously. At this point I think it should be obvious that TUF is scum. You've got a hard job, of course--it sucks that this game 100% falls on you. It's part of why I proposed but wasn't the biggest fan of this plan in the first place. You're in a sucky position--mafia is specifically designed to keep anyone from trusting anyone else, and I'm sure that trying to figure out who is mafia is hampered by the fact that you're aware you're making the simultaneous assertion that the other must be town--and it's really easy to second-guess yourself. I don't want to rush you, but I also think it's worth remembering that it's entirely possible to tie yourself up in knots the longer you think about this. So take your time, but keep that in mind.
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Hatstand
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11/19/2013 1:55:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 8:27:08 AM, TUF wrote:
Hat's, I realize my case is extremely weak. I am sorry, but it isn't going to get much better. Also I won't blame you at all if I am mis-lynched because of this. All I can say to you is that I would never play a game like this as mafia, EVER. Of course that can seem like WIFOM to you, but I urge you to read my other games to verify what I am saying is true. Also you can cross analyze my town play in this game to my town play in other games (like star wars mafia). I would say that while I haven't been 100% my best in either of the game due to time restraints, that my behavior falls in line with my normal town behavior. Also to address bladerunner's "catch-up" comment, I will admit, that due to limitations in my role I have been VERY dis-couraged, especially after receiving FOS for 4 DP's in a row that I cannot defend myself against. It has also been aggravating that every single person has been judging my strictly based off of my lack of a claim, rather than my behavior. But I am very much as town as you are. I knew you were from DP1, and I think you are the best player to make this decision.

Not entirely true.

At 11/11/2013 5:55:20 AM, TUF wrote:
If it came right down to it however, I think I would be most comfortable lynching between TDK and hats tomorrow depending on where things go. Sparkies voting himself to prove his role is kind of a hammer and a nail for me. I could see a veteran player doing that as a bluff, but such is impossible in this case to be buddy fed.
Hatstand
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11/19/2013 2:25:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 3:15:22 AM, TUF wrote:
This is so so stupid. I KNOW that blade is scum and CANT say why. How the he11 am I supposed to play the game when every aspect of my role prevents me from doing so? My role almost guarantees my death and the towns loss this phase. Hatstand the ball is in your court. All I can tell you is I hope you take my word on it. Either way, I consider this a town win even if I die.

Did you know from the start? Your initial pressure of him suggests that as a possibility, but then you said:

At 11/14/2013 12:29:15 AM, TUF wrote:
I am okay with my lynch, if it overall helps the town. Because I honestly can't give you any more of a reason not to lynch me outside Hats innocent on me. My role is annoying, and I will say something to the mod about it in the end game, but for now we can spare a lynch. And I honestly can't see khaos being mafia. I was already suspicious of bladerunner, but his neo claim did it for me last DP. Idk really know what to say at this point. After you guys lynch me, behaviorally I would say blade is the best bet, but I could be completely wrong about khaos.

And:

At 11/14/2013 9:21:32 PM, TUF wrote:
Who goes after I am lynched? If hatstand if mafia, I have to say kudos for a stellar town play. I honestly am conflicted here, as who the last mafia could be. I am kind of on khaos's page, in thinking one of the protective roles are scum. It could very well be khaos for pointing it out, but I have to look at TN05 and khaos individually before deciding.

VTL bladerunner.
Hatstand
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11/19/2013 2:40:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
From a role perspective, it makes a lot of sense that Blade is town. The lack of a NK in NP2 couldn't have been attributed to Khaos or TN, as the scum team was already aware of their roles and targets. The only possibility is that one of you was targeted, and protected for one reason or another. It makes little sense that TUF would be targeted, as he was practically a lynch waiting to happen with his concealed role.

It is entirely possible that the scumteam would have guessed that Agent Smith was TP, if only because he wasn't included amongst their number. However, if Blade was the Godfather, it seems highly unlikely that they would risk him a) being wrong about the TP being cult and b) being CC'd as Neo. Even if he was architect/Rolecop, and had discovered TUF's posting restriction, he never could have done that before he revealed his connection to the cult, and the risk is just too great.

Behaviourally, Blade was much more aggressive in the early game than TUF. He scumread exclusively (offering no town reads at all). He also failed to provide an opinion on Srehtiw at all until it looked like he would be lynched, when he suddenly pulled out a case against him. He then dismissed it again as soon as he realised he could lynch Yralez instead. This failure to interact with a member of the scumteam reminds me of SOOL, where he townread Jon based on having just replaced in, and then left it alone. However, I'll have to read some more to gauge whether this is actually characteristic if his scum play.

In contrast, TUF offered many town reads, and placed Srehtiw among his scumreads. This could have been a bus, as a redirector is not as valuable as a godfather, but declaring so many people as town would have been dangerous. This starts to fall apart around DP 3, where suddenly I'm back on his list of suspects, and TDK is in the clear (this happened before TDK claimed innocent child). The proposed reasoning for this is that it would make for too weak a scumteam, and I suppose that makes sense, but gone is the decisive TUF.

Right now I'm leaning heavily towards lynching TUF, but I will look a little further into this to be as sure as I possibly can be.
Sparkies
Posts: 652
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11/19/2013 4:53:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The choices, it's all dependant on the perspective. Lives. Lived, Will Live, Die, Died, Will Die. You see King Lear, I see a blank page.