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The Matrix Mafia Endgame

JonMilne
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11/21/2013 1:06:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
\You played a very dangerous game.
/Change always is.
\Just how long do you think this peace is going to last?
/As long as it can. What about the others?
\What others?
/The ones that want out.
\Obviously they will be freed.
/I have your word?
\What do you think I am? Human?


Well, first things first, here are links to all the previous day phases:

DP1: http://www.debate.org...
DP2: http://www.debate.org...
DP3: http://www.debate.org...
DP4: http://www.debate.org...
DP5: http://www.debate.org...
DP6: http://www.debate.org...

And now to recap and commemorate the dead:

Killed In Action

1. TA -- Agent Smith -- Cult Leader -- 3rd Party Cult -- Lynched in DP1
2. Yraelz -- Tank -- Watcher -- Zion -- Lynched in DP2
3. srehtiw -- Agent Brown -- Redirector -- Machines -- Lynched in DP3
4. thedebatekid -- Sati -- Innocent Child -- Zion -- Killed in NP3
5. Sparkies -- The Oracle -- Oracle -- Zion -- Lynched in DP4
6. Khaos Mage -- Seraph -- Seraph Knight -- Zion -- Killed in NP4
7. TN05 --Trinity -- Bodyguard -- Zion -- Killed in NP5

And now for the reveal of the final characters that made it to the end. First, commiserations to the runner-up scum team, the Machines:

TUF -- Cypher

"I'm tired, Trinity. Tired of this war, tired of fighting... I'm tired of the ship, being cold, eating the same goddamn goop everyday, but most of all, I"m tired of that jackoff and his bullsh!t!"

You are Cypher, a redpill assigned to the Nebuchadnezzar under Morpheus"s command, and who ends up betraying his fellow crewmembers to Morpheus before attempting to murder all of the crew. Your treachery and desire to get back into the Matrix comes as a total shock to your fellow crew members, and these next few days represent a real chance for you to finally get your revenge. You are the Godfather. You will appear as if you are sided with the town to investigative roles. You win with the MACHINES.

=======================================

And now, it is time to celebrate our winning team. Please raise the roof for the surviving members of Team Zion!

Bladerunner -- Neo

"I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid... you're afraid of us. You're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin. I'm going to hang up this phone, and then I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them a world without you. A world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries. A world where anything is possible. Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you."

You are Thomas A. Anderson, better known as Neo. You have been prophesised to be the One who will help Zion defeat the Machines, and that is precisely where your journey will lead you as you learn to defeat Agents and do battle with your greatest rival, Agent Smith. For DP1 and NP1 you will be purely Vanilla, and IF you should survive then from DP2 onwards you will become a self-targeting Alarmist, becoming immune from being converted into another Agent Smith and you will kill anyone who tries to convert you. Also, of course, you"ll become Bulletproof, meaning that you cannot be killed at night. You win with ZION.

Hatstand -- Morpheus

"The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."

You are Morpheus, captain of the Nebuchadnezzar, and who as a result of your belief in the Prophecy will dedicate your life to finding the One and guiding him towards defeating the Machines. You will look among the bluepills in the Matrix and the redpills in the real world, but in the course of your search you may find agents or traitors against Zion. You are the Cop. Each night you may select a player and find out whether they win with Zion or the Machines. You win with ZION.

Putting the game together

One of the very first things I did when crafting the game was seek the advice of a Mafia veteran in Drafterman. While I had a pretty good idea of what characters would fit in as well as a few of the roles, Drafter was absolutely instrumental in helping to come up with roles that would fit with characters, as well as explaining several key dynamics of Mafia gameplay. I had no hesitation in having him as a co-mod.

A very good thing about my game is that I never had to reduce it. Other players ran into that problem with their games of recent, so my game remained pretty much exactly as I intended it.

Now, onto the Cult factor. To clarify, the parties that were immune to Cult conversion (had the Cult survived) were the Machines team as well as Bladerunner from DP2 onwards. Needless to say, this was so that the Zion would be far better equipped to win the game than if Cult were given more or less free reign to convert who they wished from the beginning. So in NP1 and NP2, the Cult would always have had at least two players who they would not be able to convert without dying.

Incidentally, Khaos raised a pretty good point about Tank in that he should have been considered immune from Agent Smith conversion, since he's naturally born in Zion as opposed to ever existing IN the Matrix. Yeah, my incredibly lame excuse for that is that Agent Smith, in addition to finding a host body that would allow him to get out of the Matrix, also then puts in some hynotising code on Tank's computer screens that strips away his conscious self and turns him into another Agent Smith. Yeah I know, it's a crap reason, but I felt I was better equipped having just Neo and the Machines party members being resistant to Smith.

If I was to improve on the game, I reckon I'd add two more players, make Agent Brown a mafia JOAT, and I may have given Cypher a 1x strongman capability or something.

More to come.
TN05
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11/21/2013 1:25:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Interesting setup. I think this was a difficult game from any angle (town included), so great job there, as well as with creating a balanced cult for once! The cult works great considering that, if the cult got large enough, town and mafia may actually have had to cooperate (like in the movies) to get rid of Smith. I liked the roles given, they seem to fit the movies pretty well. I'm not too concerned about the mafia not having a major role, because redirector and godfather are more than enough to screw over town (like we saw in the last day phase).

As a side, how exactly did the cult mechanic work? Obviously a converted player would become another Agent Smith, but what would their role PM have been? Also, would only the original Smith able to convert, or would it have to been a group vote like in a mafia PM?
TheAntidoter
Posts: 4,323
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11/21/2013 2:06:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
F*ck, If I hadn't been CC'd, I would have had game.

Good game though.
Affinity: Fire
Class: Human
Abilities: ????

Nac.

WOAH, COLORED FONT!
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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11/21/2013 2:31:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/21/2013 1:25:03 PM, TN05 wrote:
Interesting setup. I think this was a difficult game from any angle (town included), so great job there, as well as with creating a balanced cult for once! The cult works great considering that, if the cult got large enough, town and mafia may actually have had to cooperate (like in the movies) to get rid of Smith. I liked the roles given, they seem to fit the movies pretty well. I'm not too concerned about the mafia not having a major role, because redirector and godfather are more than enough to screw over town (like we saw in the last day phase).

As a side, how exactly did the cult mechanic work? Obviously a converted player would become another Agent Smith, but what would their role PM have been? Also, would only the original Smith able to convert, or would it have to been a group vote like in a mafia PM?

Nvm.
JonMilne
Posts: 1,302
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11/21/2013 2:35:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Analysis of the game as it happened

DP1: I find it really difficult to describe this phase beyond the fact that TA and Hatstand engaged in a ridiculously LOOOOONNNNNGGGGG conversation that I may have read if not for the ridiculous amounts of quote use. I absolutely concur with whoever it was who suggested it, in my future games, I'm going to make it a policy that you only quote what you're actually responding to, lol. In any case, TA winded up getting subject to a CC, and that was all she wrote for the 3rd party cult. Shame really, I'd have loved to see Zion's worst-case-scenario with a mislynch, a successful NK by the machines, and a Cult conversion of a Zion member, the 4 vs 2 vs 2 dynamic would have been really cool to see.

Still, NP1 was very eventful, especially since the most interesting for me going into NP1 was whether bladerunner would survive and massively boost Zion's chances of winning. But what turned out to be one of the most critical moves of the game was Khaos's absolute stroke of genius decision to protect TN05, which contributed to the Machines failing in their first NK. Things only got worse for the Machines as they decided to redirect Sparkies to their very own srehtiw, which if Sparkies had died would have been truly catastrophic to the Machines' chances of winning. The only bright spot for the machines is that Hatstand investigated TUF innocent, which as we all know helped very much in the long run.

DP2 set up the next two night periods, with the well-played pact by Khaos and TN05 to protect one another, which by this time would mean that in the event of a mislynch, half of the Zion players would be immune from getting killed by the machines. The other big factor of DP2 was Yraelz's unfortunate absence. From the moment srehtiw claimed Tank, the clock was ticking and if Yraelz had been able to be active he could have done exactly what Khaos did and get another scum member lynched via CC. Still, his lynch was a valuable one to Zion.

To compound on the Machines' problems, in NP2 they left it too late in the game to try and NK Bladerunner, which meant they were really up against it by the time the highly academic DP3 came along. With TUF having no choice but to bus his fellow Machines member, 6 vs 1 was a hell of a big challenge to try and overcome, and I'll confess I had to persuade TUF to stay in the game, with the proviso that if he at least play DP4 and that I'd let him surrender if he still felt discouraged by DP5. On the bright side for the Machines, they did execute their first successful NK in NP3, which was a little ironic considering TDK had in fact intended to reveal his affiliation in the next Day Period anyway, heheh. But Hatstand was continuously getting innocent results in his investigations, and it would be only a matter of time before Zion would know for definite what the other Machines role was.

DP4 was quite the conundrum. Khaos and TN05 started distrusting each other, and there was a massive amount of yo-yoing about who to lynch, TUF started playing the convincing part of being massively frustrated about a really restrictive role I apparently gave him and venting about how much of a dick I was, lol, which admittedly at one point I actually thought was genuine feelings, only for TUF to admonish me for not reading behind the lines, haha. In the end, Sparkies was probably the best Zion lynch to happen in the game, since it confirmed Hatstand and made him a surefire bet for protection.

This of course meant in NP4 that the Machines unfortunately only ever had one choice about who they could lynch at the time, what with Khaos still protecting TN05 while not being protected himself. A similar situation would of course happen in NP5 where TN05 was no longer protected Khaos and the attempted hit on Hatstand diverted to him and this time he couldn't survive.

I think the proudest moment of my Mafia career so far is my game's DP6. I genuinely believe people here would be hard-pressed to think of a more exciting finish to a mafia game, with the somewhat unique situation of one player being mod-confirmed town and the mafia member being one of the two remaining players. TN05 was right, it absolutely had to be one of the biggest WIFOMs in Mafia history and Blade and TUF did damn good jobs attempting to convince Hats who they were. In the end, after the hardest Mafia decision Hats has probably ever made, he succeeded in making the right one.

It's difficult coming up with an MVP for the game, but while there are pretty good nominees, like Khaos and TN05 (for their protection of one another as well as how their usage of their protective abilities affected the rest of the game once they stopped protecting one another) and Hats (for her scum-hunting and actually managing to survive a game while being Cop and giving Zion really valuable information), I'd have to say my MVP for the game is TUF, because major props has to go to someone who convincingly scum-hunted in DP1-3 as well as managing to wrestle the game back from 6-1 to 2-1 and genuinely could have ended up winning the game.

And now for the comprehensive list of night actions:

NP1

srehtiw redirected Sparkies to himself.
Khaos Mage used Seraph Knight protection on TN05
TUF performed NK on TN05, failed
Sparkies selected Hatstand but was redirected to srehtiw (which wouldn't have been found out until the death of Sparkies, had things stayed the same)
Yraelz watched Khaos
Hatstand investigated TUF innocent
TN05 protected Sparkies.

NP2

srehtiw redirected Blade to Hatstand
Khaos continued protecting TN05
TUF performed NK on Bladerunner, failed
Sparkies selected Khaos
Hatstand investigated Sparkies innocent.
TN05 protected Khaos

NP3

Khaos continued protecting TN05
TUF performed NK on thedebatekid, succeeded
Sparkies selected Hatstand
Hatstand investigated TN05 innocent
thedebatekid decided to reveal his affiliation in DP4
TN05 protected Khaos

NP4

Khaos continued protecting TN05
TUF performed NK on Khaos, succeeded
Hatstand investigated Khaos innocent
TN05 protected Hatstand

NP5

TUF performed NK on Hatstand, diverted to TN05, succeeded
Hatstand investigated Bladerunner innocent
TN05 protected Hatstand

This game's been massively encouraging and I feel I did as well as mod, and Draft has told me as much as well. I'm definitely going to do another game at some point.

What does everyone else think? How do you feel I did?
thedebatekid
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11/21/2013 3:00:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
God Dang it. NP3 I was killed! He I was getting heat in the Dp and I planned to redeem myself by showing you all I was Zion. Stupid mafia. I was hoping that my claim would attract a protection for the night, that didn't happen obviously.
How many licks does it take to get to the tootsie roll center of the tootsie pop? 1, 2, 3, *crunch* SON OF A !@#%!@#$!@$%$^^$$#%!!!

Expanse: Trapped in Reality
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TN05
Posts: 4,492
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11/21/2013 3:30:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/21/2013 2:35:42 PM, JonMilne wrote:
Analysis of the game as it happened

DP1: I find it really difficult to describe this phase beyond the fact that TA and Hatstand engaged in a ridiculously LOOOOONNNNNGGGGG conversation that I may have read if not for the ridiculous amounts of quote use. I absolutely concur with whoever it was who suggested it, in my future games, I'm going to make it a policy that you only quote what you're actually responding to, lol. In any case, TA winded up getting subject to a CC, and that was all she wrote for the 3rd party cult. Shame really, I'd have loved to see Zion's worst-case-scenario with a mislynch, a successful NK by the machines, and a Cult conversion of a Zion member, the 4 vs 2 vs 2 dynamic would have been really cool to see.

I didn't read any of that either, lol. Bad subbing on my part but man was that unreadable.

DP2 set up the next two night periods, with the well-played pact by Khaos and TN05 to protect one another, which by this time would mean that in the event of a mislynch, half of the Zion players would be immune from getting killed by the machines. The other big factor of DP2 was Yraelz's unfortunate absence. From the moment srehtiw claimed Tank, the clock was ticking and if Yraelz had been able to be active he could have done exactly what Khaos did and get another scum member lynched via CC. Still, his lynch was a valuable one to Zion.

Khaos deserves 100% credit for forcing my claim out and then discovering that unbeatable loop, I just followed along. Great play on his part, and it's made me reconsider my usual reluctance to claim unless pressured.

To compound on the Machines' problems, in NP2 they left it too late in the game to try and NK Bladerunner, which meant they were really up against it by the time the highly academic DP3 came along. With TUF having no choice but to bus his fellow Machines member, 6 vs 1 was a hell of a big challenge to try and overcome, and I'll confess I had to persuade TUF to stay in the game, with the proviso that if he at least play DP4 and that I'd let him surrender if he still felt discouraged by DP5. On the bright side for the Machines, they did execute their first successful NK in NP3, which was a little ironic considering TDK had in fact intended to reveal his affiliation in the next Day Period anyway, heheh. But Hatstand was continuously getting innocent results in his investigations, and it would be only a matter of time before Zion would know for definite what the other Machines role was.

Targeting innocent child was a great move IMO. They knew who was protecting each other (me and Khaos) and were able to kill without any real threat there.

DP4 was quite the conundrum. Khaos and TN05 started distrusting each other, and there was a massive amount of yo-yoing about who to lynch, TUF started playing the convincing part of being massively frustrated about a really restrictive role I apparently gave him and venting about how much of a dick I was, lol, which admittedly at one point I actually thought was genuine feelings, only for TUF to admonish me for not reading behind the lines, haha. In the end, Sparkies was probably the best Zion lynch to happen in the game, since it confirmed Hatstand and made him a surefire bet for protection.

Yeah, DP4 kind of screwed a lot of this up lol. I think, in hindsight, Zion really missed an opportunity to kill TUF immediately. As much as I was distrusting Khaos, my preferred target was TUF - it would have done the same thing as confirming Hatstand, except the game would have ended with a more resounding Zion win. My strategy with Sparkies was was more to gauge Hatstand's trustworthiness than to actually pull it off - once she voted herself, I was sold on her being town because no mafia would want to have their role revealed publicly. Regardless, glad everything worked out here.

This of course meant in NP4 that the Machines unfortunately only ever had one choice about who they could lynch at the time, what with Khaos still protecting TN05 while not being protected himself. A similar situation would of course happen in NP5 where TN05 was no longer protected Khaos and the attempted hit on Hatstand diverted to him and this time he couldn't survive.

I wouldn't take back protecting Hatstand, way too much risk in protecting Khaos wehn we have a cop in the game.

I think the proudest moment of my Mafia career so far is my game's DP6. I genuinely believe people here would be hard-pressed to think of a more exciting finish to a mafia game, with the somewhat unique situation of one player being mod-confirmed town and the mafia member being one of the two remaining players. TN05 was right, it absolutely had to be one of the biggest WIFOMs in Mafia history and Blade and TUF did damn good jobs attempting to convince Hats who they were. In the end, after the hardest Mafia decision Hats has probably ever made, he succeeded in making the right one.

Yeah, that finish was epic, no doubt about it, and that way you set up the game really made it possible so kudos to you there. Great job making this possible!

It's difficult coming up with an MVP for the game, but while there are pretty good nominees, like Khaos and TN05 (for their protection of one another as well as how their usage of their protective abilities affected the rest of the game once they stopped protecting one another) and Hats (for her scum-hunting and actually managing to survive a game while being Cop and giving Zion really valuable information), I'd have to say my MVP for the game is TUF, because major props has to go to someone who convincingly scum-hunted in DP1-3 as well as managing to wrestle the game back from 6-1 to 2-1 and genuinely could have ended up winning the game.

Wow, shocked to even see me in MVP conversation here... all I did was follow Khaos along and then get him killed. XP

Congrats to TUF though - you didn't have me fooled (for the most part), but you almost fooled who you needed to fool. Very deserving win there.

This game's been massively encouraging and I feel I did as well as mod, and Draft has told me as much as well. I'm definitely going to do another game at some point.

Awesome, what theme? I'd love to play in it based on just how well this went.

What does everyone else think? How do you feel I did?

Great setup, great modding, no n00b mod screw-ups of any type really. Fantastic job!
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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11/21/2013 5:12:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Great game!

I am curious, though, Jon--what WOULD you have done if the game had gotten caught in a loop?
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
Hatstand
Posts: 2,673
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11/21/2013 6:42:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/21/2013 2:35:42 PM, JonMilne wrote:

What does everyone else think? How do you feel I did?

Brilliantly. I really enjoyed this game.
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,760
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11/21/2013 8:46:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/21/2013 2:03:38 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Followed this game. Sometimes I wonder if I should get back to playing on DDO just for a chance to play with Hatstand.

Please join Yraelz's game -- I'm considering playing, and would love to play with you again!
Khaos_Mage
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11/22/2013 12:58:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/21/2013 5:12:52 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
Great game!


I am curious, though, Jon--what WOULD you have done if the game had gotten caught in a loop?

Personally, I wouldn't have done anything.
3 townies can't be NK'd, but they can still lynch.
It would be no different if mafia decided to waive their NK.

If the loop were me and TN05 and an unlynchable mafia, then there'd be a problem, but as it was, I think it would have been fine.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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11/22/2013 1:00:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Mafia, why did you not redirect me NP1?

TUF, that fake claim was so bad in hindsight. If it weren't for my paranoia/imagination, you would have died. After we lynched Sparkies I realized my folly in not lynching you; it will not happen again!
My work here is, finally, done.
TUF
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11/22/2013 3:51:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/22/2013 1:00:07 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Mafia, why did you not redirect me NP1?

TUF, that fake claim was so bad in hindsight. If it weren't for my paranoia/imagination, you would have died. After we lynched Sparkies I realized my folly in not lynching you; it will not happen again!

When srehtiw died, I stopped caring about the game. I was honestly hoping to get lynched much earlier, because the game was so poorly balanced, and I just wanted it to end. I continued to "try" for the sake of the mod, but I knew that there was no way I was going to survive until the end. I am surprised that I did, given I myself was even fighting for my own lynch in multiple DP's. All the protection roles, and other power roles mixed in with the mafia's underwhelming abilities, discouraged me a lot.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
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11/22/2013 3:53:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
But I digress, I could have played better. Unfortunately I haven't had as much time as I had hoped to put into this game, which meant a worse play. Same with the other game I am in. The only time I have delved into the games has been to try and protect myself. Unfortunately I think I am going to need to take a break from mafia again, because I have too many other interests right now (IE coding, building websites, etc).
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
JonMilne
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11/24/2013 10:16:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/22/2013 3:51:15 AM, TUF wrote:
At 11/22/2013 1:00:07 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Mafia, why did you not redirect me NP1?

TUF, that fake claim was so bad in hindsight. If it weren't for my paranoia/imagination, you would have died. After we lynched Sparkies I realized my folly in not lynching you; it will not happen again!

When srehtiw died, I stopped caring about the game. I was honestly hoping to get lynched much earlier, because the game was so poorly balanced, and I just wanted it to end. I continued to "try" for the sake of the mod, but I knew that there was no way I was going to survive until the end. I am surprised that I did, given I myself was even fighting for my own lynch in multiple DP's. All the protection roles, and other power roles mixed in with the mafia's underwhelming abilities, discouraged me a lot.

I don't think it was "poorly balanced" per se, as I think this game is actually about average for the level of balance in mafia games. Rather, I think the loss of Cult, in addition to the mafia getting plagued by bad luck earlier on is what swung things in town's direction.

The mafia were unlucky in happening to pick the very person for an NK that the Seraph Knight had decided to pick on the same night, and then they left it too late to NK the Bulletproof player. This was town's best case scenario and I would always have considered the probability of it actually happening to be miniscule, but them's the breaks.

Bear in mind, those protective abilities wouldn't have protected against cult conversion. Throughout the game, the Mafia would have between 1 to 3 people it couldn't NK,(depending on any mislynches), and the Cult would also have between 1 to 3 people it couldn't convert (depending on any successful mafia lynches or the death of the bulletproof). The game could certainly swing in a given team's favour in the result of certain circumstances, but overall I'd say the game had the same level of good balance other games have.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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11/24/2013 11:38:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
srehtiw, why did you not redirect me NP1?
TUF, there is the biggest swing that could have been prevented. The same reason you went after TN05 is the very reason I protected him. There was no reason mafia should not have been protected from my seraph knight.
My work here is, finally, done.