Total Posts:46|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Star Wars Prequels Mafia - ENDGAME

TN05
Posts: 4,492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 8:12:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Winners: Town and Third Parties (TUF and Trekie)

Links to previous day phases
DP1: http://www.debate.org...
DP2: http://www.debate.org...
DP3: http://www.debate.org...
DP4: http://www.debate.org...
DP5: http://www.debate.org...

Character list
1. Khaos_mage - Bail Organa - Mason recruiter - Republic
2. JonMilne - General Grevious - Strongman - Sith
3. Srehtiw - Darth Sidious - Godfather/Tempter - Sith
4. Yraelz (sub NotReallySmart) - Count Dooku - Role cop - Sith
5. TUF - C-3PO - Vanilla - Republic
6. Ore_Ele - Qui-Gon Jinn - Force cop/Tree stump - Republic
7. Hatstand2 (sub AnDoctiur) - Padme Amidala - Beloved Princess/Loved - Town
8. Sparkies - Jar Jar Binks - Hider/Hated - Town
9. RocketEngineer - Darth Maul - Roleblocker/1x NK - Sith
10. NightCats - Obi-Wan Kenobi - Doctor - Town
11. TUF2 (sub Xerox) - Elan Sel'Sabango - Death Stick Salesman - TP
12. Khaos_mage3 (sub Mrs.lynch) - R2-D2 - Vanilla - Town
13. Khaos_mage2 (sub Daytonanerd) - Mace Windu - Roleblocker - Town
14. Noumena - Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader - JOAT (1x Tracker/Dayvig/Commuter) - Republic (converted to Sith)
15. Trekie (sub Cybtertron) - Jango Fett - 1x Roleblocker/Killer/Commuter - TP
16. Hatstand - Yoda - JOAT (1x RB/Doctor/Watcher/Role Cop) - Republic

Role PMs
Khaos_mage - You are BAIL ORGANA. A Senator from the planet of Alderaan, you aim to stop the Chancellor from abusing his power and seek to restore democracy to the Republic. You are a member of the Delegation of 2000, a group of Senators who seek to have the Chancellor give up his emergency powers, and seek to draw others to join this cause. In this game you are the MASON RECRUITER - each night, you may select one player. If they win with the Republic, they will join you and any other masons in a mason-only PM; if they do not win with the Republic, you will die. You win with the Republic.

TUF - You are C-3P0, a simple protocol droid. You are VANILLA - you have no special power. You win with the Republic.

Ore_Ele - You are QUI-GON JINN. A Jedi Master and the master of Obi-Wan Kenobi, you are widely regarded as a wise and noble Jedi but have been denied a seat on the Jedi Council for being willing to bypass it and its decisions. As such, you are the FORCE COP. Each night, you may investigate one player and determine whether they are force-positive (can use the force) or force-negative (cannot use the force). Because you have learned how to survive beyond death in the form of a force ghost, you may continue commenting during day phases even after you die, making you the TREE STUMP. You win with the Republic.

AnDoctiur - You are PADME AMIDALA. The former Queen of the Naboo, you share a (poorly-written) forbidden love with Anakin Skywalker. You are the BELOVED PRINCESS - if you are nightkilled the next night phase will be skipped, and if you are lynched the next day phase will be skipped. Additionally, you are LOVED - it takes one more vote to lynch you than a normal player. You win with the Republic.

Sparkies - You are JAR JAR BINKS. A Gungan who was exiled for being clumsy, you are known for being incompetent and setting race relations back a couple of decades.You are the least popular and worst character in the entire Star Wars Saga but somehow get promoted to General and later Senator. You are HATED - it takes one less vote to lynch you than a normal player. Additionally, you are the HIDER - each night, you may hide behind a player, and any night actions performed against you will fail. However, any night actions performed against the player you hide behind will be performed on you as well, and if you attempt to hide behind someone who is not aligned with the Republic, you will die. You win with the Republic.

NightCats - You are OBI-WAN KENOBI. A Jedi Padawan to Obi-Wan and future master to Anakin Skywalker, you appreciate the teachings of your master but occasionally question his motives. Despite this, you are a loyal Jedi and have many abilities. In this game, you are the DOCTOR " each night, you may protect one player from dying. You win with the Republic.

TA/TDK (Xerox) - You are ELAN SEL'SABAGNO. A drug salesman on Coruscant, you boast of selling the best death sticks in the galaxy but are addicted to them yourself. Because you are just a drug salesman, you have no real side in the conflict between the Republic and Sith. As such you are a neutral SURVIVOR, but you have two win conditions: a special win condition that will allow you to win outright if you achieve it, and the regular win condition for a survivor.
*Your special win condition is that you are the DEATH STICK SALESMAN. Each night, you may target two players and will sell death sticks to them. If you manage to sell death sticks to all living players who are biological lifeforms, you win outright.
*If you survive to the end of the game but haven't sold death sticks to everyone, you will win alongside the winning faction.

Mrs.lynch - You are R2-D2, a simple astromech droid. You are VANILLA - you have no special power. You win with the Republic.

Daytonanerd - You are MACE WINDU. A member of the Jedi Council, you are known for your aggressive fighting style and your widom. Skilled in an aggressive style of lightsaber dueling, you are capable of competing evenly with any Jedi or Sith, even one more powerful than yourself. As such, you are the ROLEBLOCKER. Each night, you may target one player, preventing them from performing their night action. You win with the Republic.

Noumena - You are ANAKIN SKYWALKER. You are "the chosen one", and are prophesized to bring balance to the Force and destroy the Sith. Innanitely talented in the force despite lacking the proper Jedi education and superbly gifted as a star pilot, you have many abilities. In this game, you are the JOAT and have the following 1x abilities:
*COMMUTER - You may fly away in your starfighter, and all night actions against you will fail.
*DAY VIG - You may kill a player at any point during any day phase.
*TRACKER - You may target one player and determine who targeted them during that night phase.
You win with the Republic.

(Modnote " New role PM) You are DARTH VADER. Formerly a Jedi believed to be "the chosen one", you have been converted to the dark side by Darth Sidious. Because you have used all of your abilities, you are now a GOON. You win with the Sith.

Trekie - You are JANGO FETT. You are a skilled bounty hunter and the model for the clone army. Because you are just a bounty hunter, you have no real side in the conflict between the Republic and the Sith. As such, you are the neutral SURVIVOR, meaning that you win jointly with the winning faction if you survive to the end of the game. Because of your talents as bounty hunter, you have the following 1x abilities:
*ROLEBLOCKER - You may select one player and prevent them from performing their night action.
*KILLER - You may kill a player.
*COMMUTER - You will go into hiding, preventing any night actions from affecting you for the night phase.

Hatstand - You are YODA. The wisest and oldest of Jedi Masters, you are held in high esteem by all Jedi, Padawan and Master alike. Due to your proficiency in the force, you are the JOAT; each night, you may perform a single 1x ability:
*ROLEBLOCKER - You may prevent one player from performing their night action.
*DOCTOR - You may prevent one player from being nightkilled.
*WATCHER - You may watch a player and see who targeted him.
*ROLE COP - You target one player and determine their character and role.
You win with the Republic.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 8:12:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Srehtiw - You are DARTH SIDIOUS. Known publically by your alter-ego of SENATOR PALPATINE, you are the Dark Lord of the Sith and plan to conquer the galaxy and install yourself as its ruler. You are the mastermind in this plot, and as such you are the GODFATHER, meaning you have the final say on all nightkills and who will perform them, in addition to not appearing in cop reports. You are also the TEMPTER. Each night, you may select one player, and if that player is Anakin Skywalker, there is a 50% chance you will convert him to the dark side as DARTH VADER; if you attempt this at least two times without success, he will convert the third time.You win with the Sith.

RocketEngineer - You are DARTH MAUL, the Sith apprentice of Darth Sidious. A warrior, you seek to aid Sidious in taking control of the galaxy. You are a skilled lightsaber duelist, utilizing a unique double-bladed lightsaber that is difficult to use but just as difficult to defend against. Because of this, you are the ROLEBLOCKER, allowing you to prevent a player from using their night role for the night phase. You also have the 1x ability to perform an additonal mafia nightkill, but you may not perform it and roleblockduring the same night phase. You win with the Sith.

NotReallySmart - You are COUNT DOOKU. A former Jedi Master, you left the Jedi Order and have since turned to the dark side. You are well-connected and wealthy, and wield a great amount of power and respect in the universe - as such, you are the ROLE COP. Each night, you may target someone and you will determine their character and role. You win with the Sith.

JonMilne - You are GENERAL GREVIOUS. You are (or at least before you were nerfed in Episode III) one of the strongest leaders in the Seperatist movement, and among the most powerful fighters in the universe. Trained in the art of the lightsaber by Count Dooku, you can wield an incredible four lightsabers in combat and have mastered nearly every lightsaber style, despite no having force abilities. You have killed many Jedi, taking their lightsabers as trophies. As such, you are the
STRONGMAN - if you perform a nightkill it will always succeed, unless the target is absent. You win with the Sith.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 8:19:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Night actions

DP1
Noumena - Dayvig Khaos (successful)

NP1
JonMilne - Strongman Noumena (failed: target absent)
Srehtiw - Tempt NoTC (not Anakin)
Yraelz - Role cop Hatstand (successful)
Ore_Ele - Force cop Mrs.lynch (successful)
Sparkies - Hide behind Hatstand
RocketEngineer - NK Khaos_mage (failed: roleblocked)
NightCats - Doctor NightCats
Xerox - Sell to Ore_Ele
Khaos_mage - Roleblock JonMilne (successful)
Noumena - Commute
Trekie - Rolebock Rocket
Hatstand - Doctor Noumena

NP2
JonMilne - Strongman Hatstand (successful)
Srehtiw - Tempt Noumena (successful)
Yraelz - Role cop Trekie
Ore_Ele - Force cop AnDoctiur
Sparkies - Hide behind AnDoctiur
NightCats - Doctor Yraelz
Xerox - Waived
Khaos_mage - Roleblock AnDoctiur
Noumena - Track JonMilne
Trekie - Waived

NP3
NK Khaos_mage
Yraelz - Role cop TUF (failed: killed)
Ore_Ele - Force cop Yraelz
Sparkies - Hide behind Mrs.lynch
NightCats - Doctor TUF
TUF - Sell to AnDoctiur and Khaos_mage
Khaos_Mage - Roleblock Yraelz (failed: killed)
Trekie - Kill Yraelz

NP4
Ore_Ele - Force cop Trekkie (failed: killed)
Sparkies - Hide behind NightCats
NightCats - Doctor TUF
TUF - Sell to Night_cats
Noumena - NK Ore_Ele (successful)
Trekie - Commute
TN05
Posts: 4,492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 8:26:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Setup explanation
Going into this game, I wanted to make a relatively simple game that is mostly faithful to the plot of the movies. I added a ton of 1x killing roles, mainly to try and represent the chaos of the Clone Wars " in theory, I expected most players to use their kill immediately, which all but Trekie did, but by sheer luck both mafia kills failed. Additionally, I tried to balance out most powers to represent the rough balance the dark and light side have in the series whole " for example, I gave mafia a recruit but gave town a mason recruiter and tree stump

Town
In the movies, the Sith are hidden until they reveal themselves " the Jedi have no idea who they are or, more importantly, how far they have infiltrated. To represent that unknown nature, I chose not to give town a full-cop or role cop " instead, I spread out investigative abilities among multiple players, in addition to adding a flavored gunsmith (force cop), to make them rely more on gut and scumhunting (akin to how Jedi must trust the force and look to the future). To compensate, I gave town a few confirmation roles - Mason recruiter was designed to help town confirm other town, while the beloved princess/beloved and hider/hated roles were there to give flavor based on characters. I gave town a roleblocker to stop Nks, as well as a doctor and two vanillas to round out. Anakin is the wild card of course, with a number of abilities including dayvig (based on Anakin's killing of Dooku) and commute that could be devastating if he were converted to mafia with them.

Sith
Balance was my key in determining mafia roles. In keeping with the movies, where Darth Sidious is considered a regular politican until his reveal, Sidious is the godfather and tempter who won't show up on cop reports. The other three mafia were obvious choices " General Grevious is strongman (to limit the town doctor and roleblocker), Darth Maul is roleblocker and 1x exta kill, and Count Dooku is role cop (to help mafia find Anakin). Mafia was placed in a very poor spot DP1 after an extremely misguided 1-on-1 CC for a vanilla town that resulted in the lynching of their roleblocker.

Third party
The Clone Wars are intergalactic chaos, and what better way to bring chaos than multiple third parties? The two I created were designed to have different play styles. The first, Jango Fett, wass a powered survivor with a few powers to make things more interesting but no ability for outright win. The second, Elan Sel'Sabango, was an survivor with a special win condition but no protective or killing roles. Surprisingly, both TPs survived to the end for a joint town/TP win!
TN05
Posts: 4,492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 8:45:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Analysis

DP1
Overall, a very very long day phase where town had solid play marked by some boneheaded moves. TUF correctly identified all scum (with the exception of Xerox?) almost immediately, but town was played down very soon by a poor dayvig of Khaos_mage (the mason) and lynching of TUF, who had been 1-on-1 CCed by RocketEngineer for no apparent reason. This move, which eliminated the mafia roleblocker and could have easily been done at night, was so terrible it basically ruined the rest of the game for mafia, forcing them to play from behind immediately.

NP1
Despite their major errors DP1, mafia almost made up for their early mistakes NP1 with solid planning from Yraelz, who subbed in for NotReallySmart at not " were it not for a few missed NKs that night (including a rare strongman fail), mafia could have been right back it it, although mafia would have lost their conversion target.

DP2/NP2
RocketEngineer was lynched in a move that shocked no one, but Yraelz was very close to getting JonMilne killed instead. I don't get why that would be better (Strongman > RB) but for whatever reason, that's what mafia decided. NP2 saw the death of Hatstand, the conversion of Noumena to Sith, and most town roles focusing on AnDotciur for his trolling. Mafia also learned Trekie, a TP survivor's, role.

DP3/NP3
Despite being armed with the knowledge of a TP, mafia never exploited it; instead, they called here a 'roleblocker', which brought more pressure on Yraelz than Trekie. Town got rid of JonMilne, the mafia strongman, and mafia eliminated Khaos_mage, but Yraelz was vig killed by Trekie.

DP4 and beyond
Town continued the methodical elimination of mafia by lynching the mafia godfather, Srehtiw. From this point Noumena's days were numbered, but Trekie almost got herself lynched by claiming TP. Regardless, town clinched a convincing win and both TPs got a share of the win.

And now, for the game awards:

Overall MVP - TUF
This should be obvious. TUF told me in his role PM he would be much more efficient at finding scum in this game due to being vanilla, and he wasn't lying - he correctly identified all mafia and one TP on the first day, leading to him (a vanilla town) being CCed by mafia. Other strong candidates for MVP would be Hatstand, Ore_Ele, and Khaos_mage for their strong play and role usage.

Mafia MVP - Yraelz
If it weren't for some bad luck, this would have been much closer, and it is all due to Yraelz's planning. Yraelz brought the mafia a solid plan and re-energized a mostly inactive faction PM.

Third party MVP - Trekie
Trekie earns this for strong role usage. Trekie effectively used two out of her three roles to screw over mafia, helping ensure her joint win, and was reasonable in-thread - with the exception of revealing her role last DP.

WTF Moment of the Game - RocketEngineer
This move made absolutely no sense. It made little sense to CC a claimed vanilla town DP1, regardless of how effective, when you have a strongman and extra NK. There was no need to rush and do this, and it actually almost backfired as Rocket was very, very close to being lynched that day instead of TUF.

Now, with all that out of the way, please tell your opinions on my modding as well as the setup and balance. I want to get some advice for future mafia games I may make.
TUF
Posts: 21,310
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 9:09:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/23/2013 8:17:45 AM, trekie wrote:
lol, TUF, that's awesome!

High Five! Make sense why I thought it was okay that you live now lol?
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
Posts: 21,310
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 9:12:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I hope after this game, I at least earned a little of my respect as a mafia player back, such that people don't mislynch me like they did in DP1 again. *Glares at OreEle specifically*

Fun game!
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
Posts: 21,310
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 9:13:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hatstand, Trekie, and Yraelz were all amazing in this game, as usual.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
trekie
Posts: 772
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 10:14:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/23/2013 9:09:33 AM, TUF wrote:
High Five! Make sense why I thought it was okay that you live now lol?
*fist bump* I really didn't see this one coming!

At 11/23/2013 9:12:44 AM, TUF wrote:
I hope after this game, I at least earned a little of my respect as a mafia player back, such that people don't mislynch me like they did in DP1 again. *Glares at OreEle specifically*
About that, your read of me was totally spot on DP1. I did want to lynch you over Rocket while trying to appear conflicted about it. And it was because I thought Rocket was the scum. That was pure survivor play on my part, I thought if we lynched the town player in a CCed situation, I wouldn't get too much flack for it, and that I could just chill during the next DP while the confirmed scum got lynched.

It's kind of funny, because on DP4 I was sure that either you(Xerox) or Srehtiw was mafia, and I absolutely wanted to lynch the scum that time around. But ironically enough, I started to second guess myself like crazy about you, because of Xerox's DP1 play. So, that was an instance of me genuinely wavering about Srehtiw and trying to figure out which way to go. But never in a million years would I have guessed that BOTH of you were some kind of scum! lol.
trekie
Posts: 772
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 10:55:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
First, thanks to TUF and Ore_Ele for convincing Khaos to let me live. Also thanks to Khaos for caving against his better judgement. Honestly, I probably would have lynched myself in a similar situation if I were in your shoes. Claiming survivor, for no reason, right before the win, was horrendous play on my part. I was banging my head into the wall after that happened. TN05 seemed to enjoy my misery in my PM though. He said, at least, it made the DP interesting. That bastard! :D Seriously though, thanks for having me in your game, I had a lot of fun!

About balancing, I think you probably should have left out at least one major character for the mafia to figure out and possibly fake claim. Besisdes the inactivity, that was probably a big handicap for them to overcome. Although, I think if either Windu or Padme claimed later on in the game, they could have been good mislynch targets as a roleblocker and beloved princess respectively. So their early claims were probably bad luck for the mafia too.

I think it's absolutely amazing how TUF pegged every single scum in his farewell post at the end of DP1. I thought Hatstand calling Yraelz's bussing attemp super early and her insightful analysis throughtout the game were crazy good. She and Ore_Ele were also both very good at being town-read by most players without even claiming anything.

@Yraelz
What was up with calling me a role-blocker? I didn't really understand how that was supposed to work out for the mafia. And I town read you too before that happened! lol. But yeah, as the others said, I think you replaced into a tough spot, and did a really good job otherwise.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 11:04:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/23/2013 10:55:13 AM, trekie wrote:
First, thanks to TUF and Ore_Ele for convincing Khaos to let me live. Also thanks to Khaos for caving against his better judgement. Honestly, I probably would have lynched myself in a similar situation if I were in your shoes. Claiming survivor, for no reason, right before the win, was horrendous play on my part. I was banging my head into the wall after that happened. TN05 seemed to enjoy my misery in my PM though. He said, at least, it made the DP interesting. That bastard! :D Seriously though, thanks for having me in your game, I had a lot of fun!

I wouldn't say I enjoyed it, but it was pretty dang funny to see that almost fail... but I love to see third parties win so I was hoping you would come through. Glad you enjoyed it. :P

About balancing, I think you probably should have left out at least one major character for the mafia to figure out and possibly fake claim. Besisdes the inactivity, that was probably a big handicap for them to overcome. Although, I think if either Windu or Padme claimed later on in the game, they could have been good mislynch targets as a roleblocker and beloved princess respectively. So their early claims were probably bad luck for the mafia too.

Agreed, and in hindsight I probably would have left out Obi-Wan and maybe another major character, and put in minors like in their place. IMO there were a good number of fake claims left though, which become more credible given how many minor people I put in (like Jango, Bail Organa, and the death stick guy). I also would have put Kit Fisto in if I knew how funny that would be given your reaction to that fakeclaim.

I think it's absolutely amazing how TUF pegged every single scum in his farewell post at the end of DP1. I thought Hatstand calling Yraelz's bussing attemp super early and her insightful analysis throughtout the game were crazy good. She and Ore_Ele were also both very good at being town-read by most players without even claiming anything.

@Yraelz
What was up with calling me a role-blocker? I didn't really understand how that was supposed to work out for the mafia. And I town read you too before that happened! lol. But yeah, as the others said, I think you replaced into a tough spot, and did a really good job otherwise.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 12:26:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/23/2013 10:55:13 AM, trekie wrote:
First, thanks to TUF and Ore_Ele for convincing Khaos to let me live. Also thanks to Khaos for caving against his better judgement. Honestly, I probably would have lynched myself in a similar situation if I were in your shoes. Claiming survivor, for no reason, right before the win, was horrendous play on my part. I was banging my head into the wall after that happened. TN05 seemed to enjoy my misery in my PM though. He said, at least, it made the DP interesting. That bastard! :D Seriously though, thanks for having me in your game, I had a lot of fun!

For the record, no one convinced me.
I remember Drafter signed off on this game, and Drafter appears to like joint survivor wins. That, and the fact that I wanted the game to be over knowing we could have prevented all TP wins, are the only reasons I switched.

If the survivor win was truly played out (as surviving to the end) you and TUF would have been killed.
My work here is, finally, done.
trekie
Posts: 772
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 1:02:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/23/2013 12:26:38 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
For the record, no one convinced me.
...
If the survivor win was truly played out (as surviving to the end) you and TUF would have been killed.
Jeez, man, you almost sound disappointed you didn't have to kill us. :P Seriously though, I understand what you're saying.
Yraelz
Posts: 4,056
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 2:06:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yeah, I made a major mistake in this game. When I got Trekie's character/role I only read the first line. I absolutely missed that she was a JOAT, and only saw the roleblocker.

The plan was to force Trekie to fake claim and then have Withers counterclaim her (because we knew she was Jango). Instead Withers no pressure claimed a sex move and Trekie got to avoid claiming anything.

But since I made the mistake our plan would have failed anyways. If we had got Trekie killed off the counterclaim then my role would be under serious scrutiny. My death would let the town know that we knew Trekie's character prior to the CC, thus Withers would have died.
Yraelz
Posts: 4,056
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 2:18:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Biggest Issues with this Game:
1. I desperately think the mafia needed at least one fake claim available to them. It really sucks to have every single primary character as a town character and then leave the mafia to sort through secondary and tertiary characters (hoping not to be CC'd).
2. I don't like giving a vig the ability to commute, ever. But I especially don't like it if it's a day-vig conversion target. =)
3. My biggest issue with this game was actually the treatment of AnDoctuir. I think AnDoctuir's play was quite legit during DP1. In fact, I ranked him as one of the top three players easily. I would like to see him in more games. Beyond that though, you CAN'T allow the town to elect to forcibly remove players that they don't like or agree with. Attempting to manipulate AnDoctuir was a central part of my strategy as a mafioso. What if F16 was town next game and he asked the mod to replace in FT, Drafterman, and Buddamose for all the townies he didn't agree with? Game over, town wins. Mafia shouldn't be a game where the town can eject players with differing opinions.
Yraelz
Posts: 4,056
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 2:22:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
TUF, you fooled me so hard! I started real life laughing when I read your second role.

Hatstand also did a superb job this game. She did an excellent job of deducing mafiosos at multiple junctures.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 2:26:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/23/2013 2:18:58 PM, Yraelz wrote:
Biggest Issues with this Game:
1. I desperately think the mafia needed at least one fake claim available to them. It really sucks to have every single primary character as a town character and then leave the mafia to sort through secondary and tertiary characters (hoping not to be CC'd).
2. I don't like giving a vig the ability to commute, ever. But I especially don't like it if it's a day-vig conversion target. =)
3. My biggest issue with this game was actually the treatment of AnDoctuir. I think AnDoctuir's play was quite legit during DP1. In fact, I ranked him as one of the top three players easily. I would like to see him in more games. Beyond that though, you CAN'T allow the town to elect to forcibly remove players that they don't like or agree with. Attempting to manipulate AnDoctuir was a central part of my strategy as a mafioso. What if F16 was town next game and he asked the mod to replace in FT, Drafterman, and Buddamose for all the townies he didn't agree with? Game over, town wins. Mafia shouldn't be a game where the town can eject players with differing opinions.

I definitely agree with #1. I already called every Mafia character at the start of DP1, and that Anakin would be able to be converted. We also knew all of the fake claims (with 1 mistake), from the first Shimi and the second, and guy claiming to be BP, etc.

I would love to see another Star Wars that is the Expanded Universe, of which there are so many characters that there would be plenty of fake claim potential (enough that the mafia may not need to be given one outright by the mod).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Yraelz
Posts: 4,056
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 2:27:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/23/2013 2:26:26 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I definitely agree with #1. I already called every Mafia character at the start of DP1, and that Anakin would be able to be converted. We also knew all of the fake claims (with 1 mistake), from the first Shimi and the second, and guy claiming to be BP, etc.

I would love to see another Star Wars that is the Expanded Universe, of which there are so many characters that there would be plenty of fake claim potential (enough that the mafia may not need to be given one outright by the mod).

Or a janitor, that would work too.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 2:30:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/23/2013 2:18:58 PM, Yraelz wrote:
Biggest Issues with this Game:
1. I desperately think the mafia needed at least one fake claim available to them. It really sucks to have every single primary character as a town character and then leave the mafia to sort through secondary and tertiary characters (hoping not to be CC'd).

Agreed, major issue that I need to not have happen in the future. At the same time I left enough obscure people in (ie. the death stick guy, Bail Organa) to make such claims more legit. If I had to do this again, I 'd probably leave Obi-Wan, and maybe Padme out.

2. I don't like giving a vig the ability to commute, ever. But I especially don't like it if it's a day-vig conversion target. =)

I'd like to see more opinions on this, but I can understand why this is problematic.

3. My biggest issue with this game was actually the treatment of AnDoctuir. I think AnDoctuir's play was quite legit during DP1. In fact, I ranked him as one of the top three players easily. I would like to see him in more games. Beyond that though, you CAN'T allow the town to elect to forcibly remove players that they don't like or agree with. Attempting to manipulate AnDoctuir was a central part of my strategy as a mafioso. What if F16 was town next game and he asked the mod to replace in FT, Drafterman, and Buddamose for all the townies he didn't agree with? Game over, town wins. Mafia shouldn't be a game where the town can eject players with differing opinions.

His DP1 play was good, I agree. It makes sense for a Beloved Princess to try and draw a nightkill. I just had no idea what to do here because his play after that was clearly trolling, probably because he got lucky enough to have a basically unlynchable role. Needless to say I will not be using a Beloved Princess/Loved townie combo again.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 2:31:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/23/2013 2:22:19 PM, Yraelz wrote:
TUF, you fooled me so hard! I started real life laughing when I read your second role.

Hatstand also did a superb job this game. She did an excellent job of deducing mafiosos at multiple junctures.

Glad you guys liked the death stick role. I was only going to have 15 players, but I decided to throw him in as the 16th guy as a joke, but one that could actually win.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 2:33:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/23/2013 2:26:26 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 11/23/2013 2:18:58 PM, Yraelz wrote:
Biggest Issues with this Game:
1. I desperately think the mafia needed at least one fake claim available to them. It really sucks to have every single primary character as a town character and then leave the mafia to sort through secondary and tertiary characters (hoping not to be CC'd).
2. I don't like giving a vig the ability to commute, ever. But I especially don't like it if it's a day-vig conversion target. =)
3. My biggest issue with this game was actually the treatment of AnDoctuir. I think AnDoctuir's play was quite legit during DP1. In fact, I ranked him as one of the top three players easily. I would like to see him in more games. Beyond that though, you CAN'T allow the town to elect to forcibly remove players that they don't like or agree with. Attempting to manipulate AnDoctuir was a central part of my strategy as a mafioso. What if F16 was town next game and he asked the mod to replace in FT, Drafterman, and Buddamose for all the townies he didn't agree with? Game over, town wins. Mafia shouldn't be a game where the town can eject players with differing opinions.

I definitely agree with #1. I already called every Mafia character at the start of DP1, and that Anakin would be able to be converted. We also knew all of the fake claims (with 1 mistake), from the first Shimi and the second, and guy claiming to be BP, etc.

I would love to see another Star Wars that is the Expanded Universe, of which there are so many characters that there would be plenty of fake claim potential (enough that the mafia may not need to be given one outright by the mod).

I'm not very familiar with the EU, but I love how this worked out with activity. I'd love to see somebody try and make an EU one though, based on activity here I'd love to play.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 2:35:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/23/2013 2:27:57 PM, Yraelz wrote:
At 11/23/2013 2:26:26 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I definitely agree with #1. I already called every Mafia character at the start of DP1, and that Anakin would be able to be converted. We also knew all of the fake claims (with 1 mistake), from the first Shimi and the second, and guy claiming to be BP, etc.

I would love to see another Star Wars that is the Expanded Universe, of which there are so many characters that there would be plenty of fake claim potential (enough that the mafia may not need to be given one outright by the mod).

Or a janitor, that would work too.

I considered giving Dooku a 1x janitor in addition to role cop, but I was concerned about giving mafia too many roles. The setup already had a strongman, roleblocker, extra kill, plus a godfather/recruiter - janitor just seemed like a bit too much IMO.
Yraelz
Posts: 4,056
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 2:36:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/23/2013 2:30:07 PM, TN05 wrote:
2. I don't like giving a vig the ability to commute, ever. But I especially don't like it if it's a day-vig conversion target. =)

I'd like to see more opinions on this, but I can understand why this is problematic.

I just think it will always happen the exact same way. A vig will use his/her NK as soon as possible and then follow it with a commute. Vig will always be a super high priority for mafia so they're likely to attempt to strategize around a doctor by either bussing, redirecting, role blocking, or strong killing. In the world where the vig has a self commute there isn't any viable strategy for the mafia, except to predict that he/she has a commute. Obviously the vig doesn't typically have a commute so that line of thought is never going to become SOP.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 2:36:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/23/2013 2:30:07 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 11/23/2013 2:18:58 PM, Yraelz wrote:
Biggest Issues with this Game:
1. I desperately think the mafia needed at least one fake claim available to them. It really sucks to have every single primary character as a town character and then leave the mafia to sort through secondary and tertiary characters (hoping not to be CC'd).

Agreed, major issue that I need to not have happen in the future. At the same time I left enough obscure people in (ie. the death stick guy, Bail Organa) to make such claims more legit. If I had to do this again, I 'd probably leave Obi-Wan, and maybe Padme out.

2. I don't like giving a vig the ability to commute, ever. But I especially don't like it if it's a day-vig conversion target. =)

I'd like to see more opinions on this, but I can understand why this is problematic.

3. My biggest issue with this game was actually the treatment of AnDoctuir. I think AnDoctuir's play was quite legit during DP1. In fact, I ranked him as one of the top three players easily. I would like to see him in more games. Beyond that though, you CAN'T allow the town to elect to forcibly remove players that they don't like or agree with. Attempting to manipulate AnDoctuir was a central part of my strategy as a mafioso. What if F16 was town next game and he asked the mod to replace in FT, Drafterman, and Buddamose for all the townies he didn't agree with? Game over, town wins. Mafia shouldn't be a game where the town can eject players with differing opinions.

His DP1 play was good, I agree. It makes sense for a Beloved Princess to try and draw a nightkill. I just had no idea what to do here because his play after that was clearly trolling, probably because he got lucky enough to have a basically unlynchable role. Needless to say I will not be using a Beloved Princess/Loved townie combo again.

He does troll, he always trolls. He never really makes an effort to find scum. Once he gets himself secured as "town" the rest of the game is just trolling. But Yaz is right, players should not be able to vote in a replacement. The best thing is to just learn from it and decide if you wish to let him play in future games. Based on stuff he has done in the past, I don't let him play in my games (revealing his entire Mafia team, twice I believe, C/Ping his role PM for no other reason than to test the mod to see if he would get mod killed, well, and because Danielle said that she would flash him if he did, though I don't think he ever got the picture, etc).

But for your first game, it was pretty good. Definitely good enough that we'll (at least I will likely, pending theme) sign up for your next one.

Heck, I remember one game where the mafia had a silencing role, that meant you couldn't post anything in the DP. This just pissed players off as people were being inactive but not replaced, and everyone basically just went inactive to avoid pressure and claimed that they were silenced.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
TN05
Posts: 4,492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 2:43:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/23/2013 2:36:33 PM, Yraelz wrote:
At 11/23/2013 2:30:07 PM, TN05 wrote:
2. I don't like giving a vig the ability to commute, ever. But I especially don't like it if it's a day-vig conversion target. =)

I'd like to see more opinions on this, but I can understand why this is problematic.

I just think it will always happen the exact same way. A vig will use his/her NK as soon as possible and then follow it with a commute. Vig will always be a super high priority for mafia so they're likely to attempt to strategize around a doctor by either bussing, redirecting, role blocking, or strong killing. In the world where the vig has a self commute there isn't any viable strategy for the mafia, except to predict that he/she has a commute. Obviously the vig doesn't typically have a commute so that line of thought is never going to become SOP.

Yep, probably won't use that combo again (at least if I allow the person to use an action consecutive nights).
trekie
Posts: 772
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 2:48:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/23/2013 2:06:20 PM, Yraelz wrote:
Yeah, I made a major mistake in this game. When I got Trekie's character/role I only read the first line. I absolutely missed that she was a JOAT, and only saw the roleblocker.
Oh, now that makes sense. I was really puzzled at what you were trying to do. I caught a lucky break with that one.

At 11/23/2013 2:35:41 PM, TN05 wrote:
I considered giving Dooku a 1x janitor in addition to role cop, but I was concerned about giving mafia too many roles. The setup already had a strongman, roleblocker, extra kill, plus a godfather/recruiter - janitor just seemed like a bit too much IMO.
1xjanitor wouldn't have been a bad idea. I think the main issue was that every single major/important character was taken by town, and the only minor one was Bail Organa. Jango and 'death stick guy' (I can't even keep a straight face typing that) don't really count since as TPs they needed to fake claim too. Minor characters basically sticked out as a sore thumb.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/23/2013 2:48:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/23/2013 2:36:56 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 11/23/2013 2:30:07 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 11/23/2013 2:18:58 PM, Yraelz wrote:
Biggest Issues with this Game:
1. I desperately think the mafia needed at least one fake claim available to them. It really sucks to have every single primary character as a town character and then leave the mafia to sort through secondary and tertiary characters (hoping not to be CC'd).

Agreed, major issue that I need to not have happen in the future. At the same time I left enough obscure people in (ie. the death stick guy, Bail Organa) to make such claims more legit. If I had to do this again, I 'd probably leave Obi-Wan, and maybe Padme out.

2. I don't like giving a vig the ability to commute, ever. But I especially don't like it if it's a day-vig conversion target. =)

I'd like to see more opinions on this, but I can understand why this is problematic.

3. My biggest issue with this game was actually the treatment of AnDoctuir. I think AnDoctuir's play was quite legit during DP1. In fact, I ranked him as one of the top three players easily. I would like to see him in more games. Beyond that though, you CAN'T allow the town to elect to forcibly remove players that they don't like or agree with. Attempting to manipulate AnDoctuir was a central part of my strategy as a mafioso. What if F16 was town next game and he asked the mod to replace in FT, Drafterman, and Buddamose for all the townies he didn't agree with? Game over, town wins. Mafia shouldn't be a game where the town can eject players with differing opinions.

His DP1 play was good, I agree. It makes sense for a Beloved Princess to try and draw a nightkill. I just had no idea what to do here because his play after that was clearly trolling, probably because he got lucky enough to have a basically unlynchable role. Needless to say I will not be using a Beloved Princess/Loved townie combo again.

He does troll, he always trolls. He never really makes an effort to find scum. Once he gets himself secured as "town" the rest of the game is just trolling. But Yaz is right, players should not be able to vote in a replacement. The best thing is to just learn from it and decide if you wish to let him play in future games. Based on stuff he has done in the past, I don't let him play in my games (revealing his entire Mafia team, twice I believe, C/Ping his role PM for no other reason than to test the mod to see if he would get mod killed, well, and because Danielle said that she would flash him if he did, though I don't think he ever got the picture, etc).

That's the problem, I wouldn't ever let anyone that's done that in a game but nobody told me about that before we started.

But for your first game, it was pretty good. Definitely good enough that we'll (at least I will likely, pending theme) sign up for your next one.

Thanks, I've got two or three themes I'm working on, and once I'm set with them I'll use the one I like most. I certainly like the size and activity of this game so I'll probably be trying another large game. Right now though people in line right now need to get their signups right now cause there are no active games.

Heck, I remember one game where the mafia had a silencing role, that meant you couldn't post anything in the DP. This just pissed players off as people were being inactive but not replaced, and everyone basically just went inactive to avoid pressure and claimed that they were silenced.

Glad I wasn't that bad. :P