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Beginner Mafia 17.3 - DP1

Khaos_Mage
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11/27/2013 1:20:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Introduction:

The essence of DDO Mafia is the themed game. Almost all games on mafia are themed games. A themed game introduces new elements (and sometimes new mechanics) that add complexity and (hopefully) fun to the game.

In addition to an alignment and a role, players are also given characters that fit in with the theme. The roles almost (but not always or necessarily) fit with the character. This can be expressed in a number of ways. For example, if the theme is a TV show or movie, and your character is a cop, officer, or policeman, he might very will have the Mafia role of "Cop" due to the similarity in profession, if not function. Alternatively, if the character isn't such an occupation, but is otherwise good at discerning between good and evil, they might also be a "Cop" due to the similarity in function, if not profession.

Themes are limited only by the imagination. Most have to do with some form of media, such as TV shows, Literature, and Movies. Others are more abstract, like philosophies or politics. Literally anything can be a theme.

As said, themes add new elements to the game, which are summarized as follows:

1. Partial-claiming. Role-claiming can be dangerous for Townies to do, as it helps mafia decide who they need to kill. Instead of role-claiming, you can character claim. While your character may hint at your role, it is still safer than full claiming.

2. Fake-claiming. Mafia normally have to fake claim their roles when forced to claim in theme-less games. In themed games they also have to fake claim characters. Arguably this is more difficult. In role-claiming, they simply have to avoid being counter-claimed. In character claiming, they have to claim a character from the theme, is consistent with their role, and is major enough to be expected (though not all characters in the game will be major).

3. Patterns. Usually, there will be some distinguishing factor between the different factions. Normally this is a good vs. evil type discrimination, but not always. Remember, the Mafia start the game knowing 1/3rd of the role PMs, so have a head start in discerning any patterns and obfuscating Town's ability to also learn it.

4. Mod Psychology. Creating a themed game, including writing PMs, requires more input from the mod. Based on analysis of the game's creation, how the role PMs are written, and any patterns discovered, you can try and determine how the game was constructed in an effort to hunt for scum. However, this is more of an art than a science. Mistakes and deliberately traps created by the mod can hinder such an analysis. Trying to predict the mod's psychology is a double edged sword.

This Game's Theme
Sports!

Good luck!

(Thanks to Drafterman's initial posts which I C/P for all these games from his previous ones)
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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11/27/2013 1:29:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Living players:
1. NotReallySmart
2. SeventhProfessor
3. Mikal
4. bsh1
5. Hatstand
6. JonMilne
7. srehtiw
8. nightcats

With eight living players, it takes five to lynch.
Given the holiday, this DP will end no later than 1:00 PM Monday 12/1


For illustrative purposes, a sample PM will look like this:
Khaos_Mage:
You are Rugby. No one is quite sure of the rules or how the game is played. Therefore, you are VOTELESS. Any vote cast by you will not count. You win with the town.

Character: Rugby
Justification (PARAPHRASE OR DIE): No one understands the sport.
Role: VOTELESS
Win Condition: Win with town

Remember, the theme is sports, so all players will be sports.
My work here is, finally, done.
NightofTheLivingCats
Posts: 2,294
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11/27/2013 2:29:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/27/2013 1:42:37 PM, Hatstand wrote:
At 11/27/2013 1:33:57 PM, NightofTheLivingCats wrote:
Im BOXING

Any why did you feel the need to claim right off the bat?

Why not?

Lets have yours too

vtl hats
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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11/27/2013 2:42:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
VTL Hatstand for Claim

I claim Ice Hockey.

Khaos must be psychic because it's sleeting outside ride now (I live in MD), and I feel like an ice hockey player.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Hatstand
Posts: 2,673
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11/27/2013 2:48:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/27/2013 2:29:52 PM, NightofTheLivingCats wrote:

Why not?

1) as town, there is no chance of you CCing someone if you claim first

2) there is no chance of randomly catching scum if townies volunteer for RVS.

Conversely, as this is a rather open theme, as scum, it could have been a bid for town-cred.

Lets have yours too

vtl hats

I'm confirmable. How's that for a claim?
Hatstand
Posts: 2,673
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11/27/2013 2:50:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/27/2013 2:49:05 PM, Mikal wrote:
I am just saying claiming your role is irrelevant, you need to claim what your actual abilities are.

... Your role is your abilities. Do you mean character?
Mikal
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11/27/2013 2:51:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/27/2013 2:50:13 PM, Hatstand wrote:
At 11/27/2013 2:49:05 PM, Mikal wrote:
I am just saying claiming your role is irrelevant, you need to claim what your actual abilities are.

... Your role is your abilities. Do you mean character?

There is no list on this. So say he says icehockey, there is nothing to correlate it too to check what he can. His real role would be like (doctor, vigilante, etc) or his abilities are fine too. There is no way to get confirmation.
NightofTheLivingCats
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11/27/2013 2:52:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/27/2013 2:48:26 PM, Hatstand wrote:
At 11/27/2013 2:29:52 PM, NightofTheLivingCats wrote:

Why not?

1) as town, there is no chance of you CCing someone if you claim first

2) there is no chance of randomly catching scum if townies volunteer for RVS.

Conversely, as this is a rather open theme, as scum, it could have been a bid for town-cred.

WIFOM.

Lets have yours too

vtl hats

I'm confirmable. How's that for a claim?

I am confirmable too. I still want you claim.
Hatstand
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11/27/2013 2:55:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/27/2013 2:51:45 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 11/27/2013 2:50:13 PM, Hatstand wrote:
At 11/27/2013 2:49:05 PM, Mikal wrote:
I am just saying claiming your role is irrelevant, you need to claim what your actual abilities are.

... Your role is your abilities. Do you mean character?

There is no list on this. So say he says icehockey, there is nothing to correlate it too to check what he can. His real role would be like (doctor, vigilante, etc) or his abilities are fine too. There is no way to get confirmation.

We ask for characters first, because it allows us to scum hunt without revealing town power roles. It works as a scumhunting technique because the role always relates to the character (e.g. Weightlifting might be strongman, or bulletproof). If someone claims a character, they can be counter claimed, or they could trip themselves up later.
bsh1
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11/27/2013 2:59:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/27/2013 2:51:45 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 11/27/2013 2:50:13 PM, Hatstand wrote:
At 11/27/2013 2:49:05 PM, Mikal wrote:
I am just saying claiming your role is irrelevant, you need to claim what your actual abilities are.

... Your role is your abilities. Do you mean character?

There is no list on this. So say he says icehockey, there is nothing to correlate it too to check what he can. His real role would be like (doctor, vigilante, etc) or his abilities are fine too. There is no way to get confirmation.

Read Khaos's opening remarks--this is a safer way to claim. I was killed last tourney; I'd sort of like to live.

What I'd say is that unless you going to kill me, you're not going to do anything to me. Speaking of claims, what's yours Mikal. You challenge my veracity, but then fail to substantiate your own.

Unvote

VTL Mikal for Claim
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Hatstand
Posts: 2,673
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11/27/2013 3:00:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/27/2013 2:52:11 PM, NightofTheLivingCats wrote:
At 11/27/2013 2:48:26 PM, Hatstand wrote:
At 11/27/2013 2:29:52 PM, NightofTheLivingCats wrote:

Why not?

1) as town, there is no chance of you CCing someone if you claim first

2) there is no chance of randomly catching scum if townies volunteer for RVS.

Conversely, as this is a rather open theme, as scum, it could have been a bid for town-cred.

WIFOM.

How so? As scum, it could be considered scummy, so no scum would ever do it. But the scum could realize that and therefore they might do it. But they might realize that and therefore... Etc. that's WIFOM.

However, as town, a townie would have no reason to do that... So they might do it to be read as scum? No WIFOM on this side of things. The fact remains that there is no real town reason to claim unless you're a miller or something.

Lets have yours too

vtl hats

I'm confirmable. How's that for a claim?

I am confirmable too. I still want you claim.

No. I am confirmable on demand. If I cannot confirm my role, then I will be insta-lynched. If I am scum, I will be caught. If I am town, my holding onto my claim will give me the possibility to trip scum up later.
bsh1
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11/27/2013 3:00:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/27/2013 2:55:26 PM, Hatstand wrote:
At 11/27/2013 2:51:45 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 11/27/2013 2:50:13 PM, Hatstand wrote:
At 11/27/2013 2:49:05 PM, Mikal wrote:
I am just saying claiming your role is irrelevant, you need to claim what your actual abilities are.

... Your role is your abilities. Do you mean character?

There is no list on this. So say he says icehockey, there is nothing to correlate it too to check what he can. His real role would be like (doctor, vigilante, etc) or his abilities are fine too. There is no way to get confirmation.

We ask for characters first, because it allows us to scum hunt without revealing town power roles. It works as a scumhunting technique because the role always relates to the character (e.g. Weightlifting might be strongman, or bulletproof). If someone claims a character, they can be counter claimed, or they could trip themselves up later.

Mikal, this explains my earlier claim fairly well.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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11/27/2013 3:00:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/27/2013 1:42:37 PM, Hatstand wrote:
At 11/27/2013 1:33:57 PM, NightofTheLivingCats wrote:
Im BOXING

Any why did you feel the need to claim right off the bat?

Someone has to claim first...I guess.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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11/27/2013 3:01:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/27/2013 2:59:21 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/27/2013 2:51:45 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 11/27/2013 2:50:13 PM, Hatstand wrote:
At 11/27/2013 2:49:05 PM, Mikal wrote:
I am just saying claiming your role is irrelevant, you need to claim what your actual abilities are.

... Your role is your abilities. Do you mean character?

There is no list on this. So say he says icehockey, there is nothing to correlate it too to check what he can. His real role would be like (doctor, vigilante, etc) or his abilities are fine too. There is no way to get confirmation.

Read Khaos's opening remarks--this is a safer way to claim. I was killed last tourney; I'd sort of like to live.

What I'd say is that unless you going to kill me, you're not going to do anything to me. Speaking of claims, what's yours Mikal. You challenge my veracity, but then fail to substantiate your own.

Unvote

VTL Mikal for Claim


Football funny enough. The american sport

I am claiming as well so im throwing it back to hats for not wanting to claim. Everyone else is

VTL HATS for claim
Hatstand
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11/27/2013 3:03:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/27/2013 3:00:54 PM, bsh1 wrote:

Someone has to claim first...I guess.

Yes, but usually we choose someone at random. The idea being that they might be scum. We also usually choose players who would be less likely to be prepared to claim (e.g. Noobs or vets who wouldn't be expecting it). The only person who you know to be town is yourself, therefore volunteering yourself is the only way to ensure that we don't catch scum in RVS.
bsh1
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11/27/2013 3:04:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/27/2013 3:01:31 PM, Hatstand wrote:
At 11/27/2013 2:59:21 PM, bsh1 wrote:

Unvote

VTL Mikal for Claim


This is turning into a mass claim...

And there is a problem with that...You need to claim (soft, hard, whatever) to begin the process of unearthing the mafia. Your reticence is troubling.

Unvote

VTL Hatstand for Claim
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Hatstand
Posts: 2,673
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11/27/2013 3:06:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/27/2013 3:01:50 PM, Mikal wrote:


Football funny enough. The american sport

I am claiming as well so im throwing it back to hats for not wanting to claim. Everyone else is

VTL HATS for claim

Classic sheeping.

What part of 'confirmable upon demand' do you not understand? If you ever have reason to believe that I am scum, I can prove my role instantly. On the spot. And it is a town role. What possible benefit is there to forcing me to claim?
bsh1
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11/27/2013 3:09:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/27/2013 3:03:33 PM, Hatstand wrote:
At 11/27/2013 3:00:54 PM, bsh1 wrote:

Someone has to claim first...I guess.

Yes, but usually we choose someone at random. The idea being that they might be scum. We also usually choose players who would be less likely to be prepared to claim (e.g. Noobs or vets who wouldn't be expecting it). The only person who you know to be town is yourself, therefore volunteering yourself is the only way to ensure that we don't catch scum in RVS.

I totally disagree. It is by testing the validity of people's claims that we DO catch scum. If no one claims, then we get nowhere. Now, it's time for you to claim.

Moreover, when you claim isn't as suspicious as what people claim. We should be more focused on the substance of NightCat's claim rather than on the moment in which he made it. This seems logical, to me at least.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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11/27/2013 3:11:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/27/2013 3:06:02 PM, Hatstand wrote:
At 11/27/2013 3:01:50 PM, Mikal wrote:


Football funny enough. The american sport

I am claiming as well so im throwing it back to hats for not wanting to claim. Everyone else is

VTL HATS for claim

Classic sheeping.

What part of 'confirmable upon demand' do you not understand? If you ever have reason to believe that I am scum, I can prove my role instantly. On the spot. And it is a town role. What possible benefit is there to forcing me to claim?

The benefits: Openness. Trustworthiness. Knowledge.

If you can confirm your innocence on the spot, why not do it and be vindicated.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Hatstand
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11/27/2013 3:13:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/27/2013 3:09:30 PM, bsh1 wrote:

Yes, but usually we choose someone at random. The idea being that they might be scum. We also usually choose players who would be less likely to be prepared to claim (e.g. Noobs or vets who wouldn't be expecting it). The only person who you know to be town is yourself, therefore volunteering yourself is the only way to ensure that we don't catch scum in RVS.

I totally disagree. It is by testing the validity of people's claims that we DO catch scum. If no one claims, then we get nowhere. Now, it's time for you to claim.

Moreover, when you claim isn't as suspicious as what people claim. We should be more focused on the substance of NightCat's claim rather than on the moment in which he made it. This seems logical, to me at least.

Cats knew that he wasn't scum (assuming he's town) so from his perspective, his own claim is the only one that cannot possibly catch scum. I'm not saying that he shouldn't have claimed. Just that he shouldn't have volunteered to claim

Also, you should be critical of everything. Both the substance and the timing. There is no reason to factor out one element or the other.

And I will not claim unless you can give me a reason why my claiming now will benefit the town. If you want to know who I am, you'll have to lynch me.
bsh1
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11/27/2013 3:16:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/27/2013 3:13:53 PM, Hatstand wrote:
At 11/27/2013 3:09:30 PM, bsh1 wrote:

Yes, but usually we choose someone at random. The idea being that they might be scum. We also usually choose players who would be less likely to be prepared to claim (e.g. Noobs or vets who wouldn't be expecting it). The only person who you know to be town is yourself, therefore volunteering yourself is the only way to ensure that we don't catch scum in RVS.

I totally disagree. It is by testing the validity of people's claims that we DO catch scum. If no one claims, then we get nowhere. Now, it's time for you to claim.

Moreover, when you claim isn't as suspicious as what people claim. We should be more focused on the substance of NightCat's claim rather than on the moment in which he made it. This seems logical, to me at least.

Cats knew that he wasn't scum (assuming he's town) so from his perspective, his own claim is the only one that cannot possibly catch scum. I'm not saying that he shouldn't have claimed. Just that he shouldn't have volunteered to claim

Thank you for the clarification.

Also, you should be critical of everything. Both the substance and the timing. There is no reason to factor out one element or the other.

I agree: both are significant; I just think one is more telling than the other.

And I will not claim unless you can give me a reason why my claiming now will benefit the town. If you want to know who I am, you'll have to lynch me.

I am not ready to lynch yet. I want more people to claim and to see how people interact first. As such, I will:

Unvote
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Hatstand
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11/27/2013 3:18:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/27/2013 3:11:11 PM, bsh1 wrote:

The benefits: Openness. Trustworthiness. Knowledge.

All things scum would want to give the impression of.

If you can confirm your innocence on the spot, why not do it and be vindicated.

Because then my role will be proven, I cannot CC anyone, and the point of not claiming in the first place is greatly reduced. I have given you a substantial soft-claim. If that, as well as my analysis of the situation so far is not enough for you, then I don't know what I can do for you.
bsh1
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11/27/2013 3:21:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/27/2013 3:18:17 PM, Hatstand wrote:
At 11/27/2013 3:11:11 PM, bsh1 wrote:

The benefits: Openness. Trustworthiness. Knowledge.

All things scum would want to give the impression of.

They're also things townies should--in theory--be able to demonstrate better than the mafia. I don't want to debate this point too much though, as it's not immediately relevant to the topic at hand: your claiming (or lack thereof).

If you can confirm your innocence on the spot, why not do it and be vindicated.

Because then my role will be proven, I cannot CC anyone, and the point of not claiming in the first place is greatly reduced. I have given you a substantial soft-claim. If that, as well as my analysis of the situation so far is not enough for you, then I don't know what I can do for you.

I can live with that for the time being, though I'd feel more comfortable if you did claim.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...