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Beginner Mafia 18.1 - DP2

Khaos_Mage
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12/11/2013 9:22:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Died in the night:

bsh1:

You are SUPER SAINT. If you are lynched, you will automatically kill the person who placed the final vote (i.e. hammerer). You win with the town.

Living Players:
1. Aloke
2. sketchn
3. PotbelliedGeek
4. SolonKR
5. Yay842
6. Mikal
7. Crypto
8. Zaradi
9. Hatstand

With 9 players alive, it takes five votes to lynch.
The day phase ends in no later than 10AM 12/13/13 DDO time.
My work here is, finally, done.
Aloke
Posts: 433
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12/11/2013 9:53:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
VTL Sketchn for death.

Seems like she posted in the announcement PM instead of in the mafia PM. I guess this also confirms Mikal and Crypto.
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Aloke
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12/11/2013 9:59:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I think it's interesting to note that mafia didn't NK either Yay or Solon, the two most dangerous roles in the game. Seriously, mafia is just going to let two cops run rampant? I mean, two nights alone would confirm four players.

Either one or both of them are mafia.
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PotBelliedGeek
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12/11/2013 12:17:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
VTL sketchn

She's busted. I'm with Aloke, we can town read both cryptos and Mikal. I would also like to ask one of our two cops to confirm my allegiance.

@Aloke, I agree that it is very suspicious that neither of them were attacked. I hesitate to declare one of them scum just yet, but i definitely FOS them both.
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PotBelliedGeek
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12/11/2013 12:24:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Also, now that I trust Mikal and cryptos both, what do you guys think about Aloke? I have been very suspicious about her since she claimed vanilla, but her observation about the cops seems townish to me.

On a separate note, why did the Mafia go after Bsh? Was he onto someone? Were they trying to frame someone else who bsh was grilling? He didn't have a terribly important role.
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Zaradi
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12/11/2013 12:40:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Wait hold on, why are Mikal and Crypto confirmed?

And since it's kinda painfully obvious that we all know sketchn's mafia (sorry xD you did kinda screw that one up) why not do a little more scum hunting and lynch her at the end of the day? We did end last DP like 2 days before deadline which was hella unnecessary.

Also BSH was a decent target for NK. Not a super important role so unlikely to be targeted by doc or any kind of protective role and hadn't been super active in scum hunting so it wouldn't really "frame" any of the scum team. I can understand why they did it.
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Aloke
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12/11/2013 12:44:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 12:40:26 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Wait hold on, why are Mikal and Crypto confirmed?

Yes, unless there's a reason why mafia would NK one of their own to make another one of their own look suspicious.

And since it's kinda painfully obvious that we all know sketchn's mafia (sorry xD you did kinda screw that one up) why not do a little more scum hunting and lynch her at the end of the day? We did end last DP like 2 days before deadline which was hella unnecessary.

I want to hear Solon and Yay's results first.

Who do you think is scum? Other than me?
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Zaradi
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12/11/2013 12:47:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 12:44:14 PM, Aloke wrote:
At 12/11/2013 12:40:26 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Wait hold on, why are Mikal and Crypto confirmed?

Yes, unless there's a reason why mafia would NK one of their own to make another one of their own look suspicious.

....huh? English please.

And since it's kinda painfully obvious that we all know sketchn's mafia (sorry xD you did kinda screw that one up) why not do a little more scum hunting and lynch her at the end of the day? We did end last DP like 2 days before deadline which was hella unnecessary.

I want to hear Solon and Yay's results first.

Who do you think is scum? Other than me?

Other than the painfully obvious. I don't know yet, hence why I still want to use this day phase. There is absolutely no reason to end a dayphase before the deadline as town since that's wasting time you can be using to hunt scum.
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PotBelliedGeek
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12/11/2013 12:48:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 12:40:26 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Wait hold on, why are Mikal and Crypto confirmed?
They are confimed because Sketchn's PM to the mafia (The one she posted in the announcement PM) reveals that she wanted all three scum to target Mikal (confirms mikal) so that we would suspect cryptos and Lynch him (confirms cryptos).


And since it's kinda painfully obvious that we all know sketchn's mafia (sorry xD you did kinda screw that one up) why not do a little more scum hunting and lynch her at the end of the day?
Good Idea. I'll do that.
We did end last DP like 2 days before deadline which was hella unnecessary.

Also BSH was a decent target for NK. Not a super important role so unlikely to be targeted by doc or any kind of protective role and hadn't been super active in scum hunting so it wouldn't really "frame" any of the scum team. I can understand why they did it.

Good point. What is your take on Aloke?
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Aloke
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12/11/2013 12:51:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 12:47:11 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 12/11/2013 12:44:14 PM, Aloke wrote:
At 12/11/2013 12:40:26 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Wait hold on, why are Mikal and Crypto confirmed?

Yes, unless there's a reason why mafia would NK one of their own(Mikal) to make another one of their own(Crypto) look suspicious.

....huh? English please.

Read the bold.

And since it's kinda painfully obvious that we all know sketchn's mafia (sorry xD you did kinda screw that one up) why not do a little more scum hunting and lynch her at the end of the day? We did end last DP like 2 days before deadline which was hella unnecessary.

I want to hear Solon and Yay's results first.

Who do you think is scum? Other than me?

Other than the painfully obvious. I don't know yet, hence why I still want to use this day phase. There is absolutely no reason to end a dayphase before the deadline as town since that's wasting time you can be using to hunt scum.

I disagree with that as a general rule, but I'm willing to wait until at least we have all the results. Let's get the ball rolling. Do you think one of Solon or Yay is mafia. If so, which one?
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Zaradi
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12/11/2013 12:53:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 12:48:38 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 12/11/2013 12:40:26 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Wait hold on, why are Mikal and Crypto confirmed?
They are confimed because Sketchn's PM to the mafia (The one she posted in the announcement PM) reveals that she wanted all three scum to target Mikal (confirms mikal) so that we would suspect cryptos and Lynch him (confirms cryptos).

Right right. Bad on me for not reading the whole thing. God crypto's seriously town? I guess it's a good thing he's in a beginner's game >.>


And since it's kinda painfully obvious that we all know sketchn's mafia (sorry xD you did kinda screw that one up) why not do a little more scum hunting and lynch her at the end of the day?
Good Idea. I'll do that.
We did end last DP like 2 days before deadline which was hella unnecessary.

Also BSH was a decent target for NK. Not a super important role so unlikely to be targeted by doc or any kind of protective role and hadn't been super active in scum hunting so it wouldn't really "frame" any of the scum team. I can understand why they did it.

Good point. What is your take on Aloke?

Still don't like her all that much. Stalling out a vanilla claim is not a good idea, especially if she wanted to draw the NK as vanilla as that only does the exact opposite, it paints you for a mislynch, not an NK. Denying that information to the town is hella stupid.

Who have we not gotten some kind of claim from?
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Zaradi
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12/11/2013 12:56:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 12:51:23 PM, Aloke wrote:

I disagree with that as a general rule,

Why? Town favors the DP because the mafia can't use NP actions to kill them and they can hunt scum. Mafia favors the NP because they can use their actions to try and win. Even if town has investigative roles and stuff mafia still gains more from the NP than the DP. During the DP town can a) scum-hunt to try and find a scum to lynch and b) gather information to go into the NP with to try and get some kind of advantage for the next DP. As such as town there's no reason to end the DP early. Especially for a VTNL. If you're going to do that just let the DP time out and get as much information as you can.

but I'm willing to wait until at least we have all the results. Let's get the ball rolling. Do you think one of Solon or Yay is mafia. If so, which one?

I don't buy Solon as mafia. Yay could be but he's too inactive to tell.
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PotBelliedGeek
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12/11/2013 1:01:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 12:53:18 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 12/11/2013 12:48:38 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 12/11/2013 12:40:26 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Wait hold on, why are Mikal and Crypto confirmed?
They are confimed because Sketchn's PM to the mafia (The one she posted in the announcement PM) reveals that she wanted all three scum to target Mikal (confirms mikal) so that we would suspect cryptos and Lynch him (confirms cryptos).

Right right. Bad on me for not reading the whole thing. God crypto's seriously town? I guess it's a good thing he's in a beginner's game >.>


And since it's kinda painfully obvious that we all know sketchn's mafia (sorry xD you did kinda screw that one up) why not do a little more scum hunting and lynch her at the end of the day?
Good Idea. I'll do that.
We did end last DP like 2 days before deadline which was hella unnecessary.

Also BSH was a decent target for NK. Not a super important role so unlikely to be targeted by doc or any kind of protective role and hadn't been super active in scum hunting so it wouldn't really "frame" any of the scum team. I can understand why they did it.

Good point. What is your take on Aloke?

Still don't like her all that much. Stalling out a vanilla claim is not a good idea, especially if she wanted to draw the NK as vanilla as that only does the exact opposite, it paints you for a mislynch, not an NK. Denying that information to the town is hella stupid.

Who have we not gotten some kind of claim from?

Here are all the claims, and none of them contradict. Im new here, how do we proceed to scum hunt now?

Mikal: Watcher
Aloke: Vanilla
Pots: Bodygaurd
Sketchn: Claimed dreamer, Confirmed scum
Bsh: Dead Super Saint, Confirmed Town
Yay: mimic
Crypto: Oralce, Confirmed town
Zaradi: Paranoid Gun Owner
Hats: Bomb
Solon: Cop
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Aloke
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12/11/2013 1:03:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 12:56:27 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 12/11/2013 12:51:23 PM, Aloke wrote:

I disagree with that as a general rule,

Why?

I'll explain when it becomes relevant to the DP. Until then, I'd like to keep discussion about mafia theory to a minimum as not to distract from the actual important things, like scum hunting.

but I'm willing to wait until at least we have all the results. Let's get the ball rolling. Do you think one of Solon or Yay is mafia. If so, which one?

I don't buy Solon as mafia. Yay could be but he's too inactive to tell.

That's certainly possible. Yay's position of neutrality when I asked him to vote for sketchin kind of comes off as odd now that we know sketchin is mafia. Honestly, if you're not mafia, I'd say both Solon and Yay are since I believe Pot is town. Actually, if Pot was mafia, then mafia could of killed the real cop with impunity last night. The fact that did not happen lends credit to Pot being town narrowing the list to you, Solon, and Yay.
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Zaradi
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12/11/2013 1:03:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Let's get Solon, Crypto, and Mikal's results. It's as good of a starting place as any.
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Aloke
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12/11/2013 1:06:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 1:03:44 PM, Aloke wrote:
That's certainly possible. Yay's position of neutrality when I asked him to vote for sketchin kind of comes off as odd now that we know sketchin is mafia. Honestly, if you're not mafia, I'd say both Solon and Yay are since I believe Pot is town. Actually, if Pot was mafia, then mafia could of killed the real cop with impunity last night. The fact that did not happen lends credit to Pot being town narrowing the list to you, Solon, and Yay.

Well from my POV at least.
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PotBelliedGeek
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12/11/2013 1:08:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What about hats? The bomb claim is a good fake for a mafia, and there is no way to confirm it. If we wanted to investigate her further, how would we do it?
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Zaradi
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12/11/2013 1:09:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 1:03:44 PM, Aloke wrote:
At 12/11/2013 12:56:27 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 12/11/2013 12:51:23 PM, Aloke wrote:

I disagree with that as a general rule,

Why?

I'll explain when it becomes relevant to the DP. Until then, I'd like to keep discussion about mafia theory to a minimum as not to distract from the actual important things, like scum hunting.

Why? Explaining mafia theory isn't harmful to scum-hunting. We can use discussions to scum hunt based on faulty reasoning or lines of logic that are more helpful to scum than town. I.e. if I said "Hey guys we know sketchn is scum so why not just VTNL and try to get the last guy's name too from the NP" you could reasonably suspect me as scum because no townie would ever suggest that xD

but I'm willing to wait until at least we have all the results. Let's get the ball rolling. Do you think one of Solon or Yay is mafia. If so, which one?

I don't buy Solon as mafia. Yay could be but he's too inactive to tell.

That's certainly possible. Yay's position of neutrality when I asked him to vote for sketchin kind of comes off as odd now that we know sketchin is mafia. Honestly, if you're not mafia, I'd say both Solon and Yay are since I believe Pot is town. Actually, if Pot was mafia, then mafia could of killed the real cop with impunity last night. The fact that did not happen lends credit to Pot being town narrowing the list to you, Solon, and Yay.

I honestly don't see Solon being scum, at all. He's on my "highly likely of being town" list. I also don't understand the bolded. The mafia could've killed Solon with impunity regardless of Pots affiliation. The fact that pots didn't die shows that he was either a) lying about his role or b) targeted the wrong person.

That reminds me, we should get everyone's night actions.

Pots, who did you attempt to protect last night?
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Zaradi
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12/11/2013 1:10:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 1:08:17 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
What about hats? The bomb claim is a good fake for a mafia, and there is no way to confirm it. If we wanted to investigate her further, how would we do it?

You can confirm bomb through any kind of investigative role. Moreover, I don't buy hats as mafia. She's putting off all her normal town tells and hasn't done anything to make me suspicious yet. Why would we investigate her further?
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PotBelliedGeek
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12/11/2013 1:13:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 1:10:44 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 12/11/2013 1:08:17 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
What about hats? The bomb claim is a good fake for a mafia, and there is no way to confirm it. If we wanted to investigate her further, how would we do it?

You can confirm bomb through any kind of investigative role. Moreover, I don't buy hats as mafia. She's putting off all her normal town tells and hasn't done anything to make me suspicious yet. Why would we investigate her further?
No particular reason. I just picked a name that had not come into discussion yet. I never played with her before, so I don't know her styles.
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Aloke
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12/11/2013 1:14:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 1:08:17 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
What about hats? The bomb claim is a good fake for a mafia, and there is no way to confirm it. If we wanted to investigate her further, how would we do it?

Think about it. If you were mafia, why would you cc the bomb?

If Hats was scum faking a cc, then at best, we would have lynched Solon and then lynched Hats. A one for one trade. One for one trades don't benefit mafia, especially for a bomb. There's no reason why mafia would trade one of their own to get rid of the bomb. She's not confirmed, but I do find her cc to work in her favor. She's my strongest town read(besides Crypto and Mikal).
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Zaradi
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12/11/2013 1:14:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 1:13:44 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 12/11/2013 1:10:44 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 12/11/2013 1:08:17 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
What about hats? The bomb claim is a good fake for a mafia, and there is no way to confirm it. If we wanted to investigate her further, how would we do it?

You can confirm bomb through any kind of investigative role. Moreover, I don't buy hats as mafia. She's putting off all her normal town tells and hasn't done anything to make me suspicious yet. Why would we investigate her further?
No particular reason. I just picked a name that had not come into discussion yet. I never played with her before, so I don't know her styles.

Just go through other games that she's played (ones that have ended so you can see what affiliation she was of course) and watch her play style. What she likes to do and doesn't like to do.
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PotBelliedGeek
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12/11/2013 1:15:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 1:09:20 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 12/11/2013 1:03:44 PM, Aloke wrote:
At 12/11/2013 12:56:27 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 12/11/2013 12:51:23 PM, Aloke wrote:

I disagree with that as a general rule,

Why?

I'll explain when it becomes relevant to the DP. Until then, I'd like to keep discussion about mafia theory to a minimum as not to distract from the actual important things, like scum hunting.

Why? Explaining mafia theory isn't harmful to scum-hunting. We can use discussions to scum hunt based on faulty reasoning or lines of logic that are more helpful to scum than town. I.e. if I said "Hey guys we know sketchn is scum so why not just VTNL and try to get the last guy's name too from the NP" you could reasonably suspect me as scum because no townie would ever suggest that xD

but I'm willing to wait until at least we have all the results. Let's get the ball rolling. Do you think one of Solon or Yay is mafia. If so, which one?

I don't buy Solon as mafia. Yay could be but he's too inactive to tell.

That's certainly possible. Yay's position of neutrality when I asked him to vote for sketchin kind of comes off as odd now that we know sketchin is mafia. Honestly, if you're not mafia, I'd say both Solon and Yay are since I believe Pot is town. Actually, if Pot was mafia, then mafia could of killed the real cop with impunity last night. The fact that did not happen lends credit to Pot being town narrowing the list to you, Solon, and Yay.

I honestly don't see Solon being scum, at all. He's on my "highly likely of being town" list. I also don't understand the bolded. The mafia could've killed Solon with impunity regardless of Pots affiliation. The fact that pots didn't die shows that he was either a) lying about his role or b) targeted the wrong person.

That reminds me, we should get everyone's night actions.

Pots, who did you attempt to protect last night?

I protected yay.
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PotBelliedGeek
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12/11/2013 1:19:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 1:16:43 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Why target Yay for protection......?

As I stated last DP, it was a coin flip. I literally flipped a quarter for it. When I submitted my action, I asked khaoz to protect yay as long as he copied solons role, and to protect solon if yay did not go through with that. He replied that I cannot make a condition, and just had to choose one, so I flipped and it came out Yay.
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Zaradi
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12/11/2013 1:22:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 1:19:46 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 12/11/2013 1:16:43 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Why target Yay for protection......?

As I stated last DP, it was a coin flip. I literally flipped a quarter for it. When I submitted my action, I asked khaoz to protect yay as long as he copied solons role, and to protect solon if yay did not go through with that. He replied that I cannot make a condition, and just had to choose one, so I flipped and it came out Yay.

Why was Yay even on the table? Stating "I'm choosing between two people SHHHH DONT TELL THE MAFIA" means that they're not going to target either of those two people. Moreover, why would Yay stil be on the table for protection? Why not Crypto, since you were all up on his D in DP1 and he claimed a semi-important role?
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PotBelliedGeek
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12/11/2013 1:28:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 1:22:29 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 12/11/2013 1:19:46 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 12/11/2013 1:16:43 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Why target Yay for protection......?

As I stated last DP, it was a coin flip. I literally flipped a quarter for it. When I submitted my action, I asked khaoz to protect yay as long as he copied solons role, and to protect solon if yay did not go through with that. He replied that I cannot make a condition, and just had to choose one, so I flipped and it came out Yay.

Why was Yay even on the table? Stating "I'm choosing between two people SHHHH DONT TELL THE MAFIA" means that they're not going to target either of those two people. Moreover, why would Yay stil be on the table for protection? Why not Crypto, since you were all up on his D in DP1 and he claimed a semi-important role?

If you look back through DP1, This was right after Solon claimed cop, and we were all worried that scum would NK him. The Idea was to have Solon use his role to determine someones allegiance, Yay would mimic him so that we would have two cops, and I would protect one of them so that scum couldn't off them.

I was under the impression that this would give some degree of confirmation for all three of our roles in one NP, and we would have more info to go on next this DP. The other two agreed and we went on with it.
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Aloke
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12/11/2013 1:29:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 1:09:20 PM, Zaradi wrote::
Why? Explaining mafia theory isn't harmful to scum-hunting. We can use discussions to scum hunt based on faulty reasoning or lines of logic that are more helpful to scum than town. I.e. if I said "Hey guys we know sketchn is scum so why not just VTNL and try to get the last guy's name too from the NP" you could reasonably suspect me as scum because no townie would ever suggest that xD

I'm not against discussing game theory, I just like to discuss it when it's relevant to the DP. Otherwise we get loads of text(and then consequently quotes of wall-of-text) that aren't really relevant to the game at the moment. That makes it easier for scum to slip through the cracks since it's hard for townies to sift through all that information. Simply put, theory discussion can clog up the DP.

but I'm willing to wait until at least we have all the results. Let's get the ball rolling. Do you think one of Solon or Yay is mafia. If so, which one?

I don't buy Solon as mafia. Yay could be but he's too inactive to tell.

That's certainly possible. Yay's position of neutrality when I asked him to vote for sketchin kind of comes off as odd now that we know sketchin is mafia. Honestly, if you're not mafia, I'd say both Solon and Yay are since I believe Pot is town. Actually, if Pot was mafia, then mafia could of killed the real cop with impunity last night. The fact that did not happen lends credit to Pot being town narrowing the list to you, Solon, and Yay.

I honestly don't see Solon being scum, at all. He's on my "highly likely of being town" list.

Why's that?

I also don't understand the bolded.

If Pot's was mafia, then there would be nobody to protect either Solon or Yay. If one of them were actually a cop, then mafia would have been able to kill the real one since they wouldn't have had any protection.

The mafia could've killed Solon with impunity regardless of Pots affiliation. The fact that pots didn't die shows that he was either a) lying about his role or b) targeted the wrong person.

How? If Pot was town, then there was a 50/50% chance he would of protected Solon last night. Could you further elaborate on A and B? He might of not died since mafia feared Mikal would watch him. Or mafia just didn't target the same person he protected.
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PotBelliedGeek
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12/11/2013 1:32:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/11/2013 1:28:21 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 12/11/2013 1:22:29 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 12/11/2013 1:19:46 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 12/11/2013 1:16:43 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Why target Yay for protection......?

As I stated last DP, it was a coin flip. I literally flipped a quarter for it. When I submitted my action, I asked khaoz to protect yay as long as he copied solons role, and to protect solon if yay did not go through with that. He replied that I cannot make a condition, and just had to choose one, so I flipped and it came out Yay.

Why was Yay even on the table? Stating "I'm choosing between two people SHHHH DONT TELL THE MAFIA" means that they're not going to target either of those two people. Moreover, why would Yay stil be on the table for protection? Why not Crypto, since you were all up on his D in DP1 and he claimed a semi-important role?

I was very doubtful of cryptos at this point in DP1. This was after you explained exactly what the free fake claim was, and I realized that his defense didn't really hold up.

If you look back through DP1, This was right after Solon claimed cop, and we were all worried that scum would NK him. The Idea was to have Solon use his role to determine someones allegiance, Yay would mimic him so that we would have two cops, and I would protect one of them so that scum couldn't off them.

I was under the impression that this would give some degree of confirmation for all three of our roles in one NP, and we would have more info to go on next this DP. The other two agreed and we went on with it.
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