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Beginners' Mafia 22.2: ENDGAME

bsh1
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3/17/2014 11:04:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Town + TP win!

MAFIA

Oro - You are the JOAT. You have the following 1-shot abilities: Roleblocker, Role Cop, Framer. You win with the mafia.

Josh - You are the Ninja. You cannot be tracked. You win with the Mafia.

Fazz - You are the Redirector. Each night you may select a player. You may redirect that player's action to another player. You win with the mafia.

TOWN

Ford - You are the Bodyguard. Each night you may select a player. Any lethal actions directed at that player shall be redirect back to yourself. You win with the town.

XLAV - You are the Innocent Child. On the second DP, you will be mod-confirmed as town. You win with the town.

Yay - You are the even-night Role Cop. Every even night you may select a player. You will learn that player's role, but not their affiliation. You win with the town.

Tyler - You are the Priest. You will learn the roles (but not the affiliations) of those who visit you. You win with the town. (Hidden Mod Note: Naive)

Khaos - You're the tracker. Ka-pow!

TP

TS - You are the Survivor. You win when another faction has met their win condition (e.g. when the mafia are in the majority or when town has eliminated the mafia.) Joint wins are possible.
Live Long and Prosper

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XLAV
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3/17/2014 11:19:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Fazz, you had a huge chance of winning since we mostly town read you. If you didn't screw up and NKed the right people like me and Ford you could have won. I was thinking Tyler was scum after we lynched Oro because I though Tyler was bussing Oro.

Oro, why did you say you copped Tyler but you actually didn't?
bsh1
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3/17/2014 11:44:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/17/2014 11:33:25 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
Oro, why did you say you copped Tyler but you actually didn't?

This. So much this.

Oro did role cop Tyler. But Tyler was naive, so Tyler never knew.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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ford_prefect
Posts: 4,143
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3/17/2014 11:59:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/17/2014 11:44:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/17/2014 11:33:25 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
Oro, why did you say you copped Tyler but you actually didn't?

This. So much this.

Oro did role cop Tyler. But Tyler was naive, so Tyler never knew.

Oh right! Now that you say that I think I vaguely remember considering that possibility, then I guess I forgot about it or something... haha I don't know. Ah well, worked out for the best I guess
yay842
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3/18/2014 12:13:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/17/2014 11:22:26 PM, XLAV wrote:
Mafia is OP again, but town won. Lol.

i was lost, i thought scum screwed up and lost
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XLAV
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3/18/2014 12:36:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/18/2014 12:13:05 AM, yay842 wrote:
At 3/17/2014 11:22:26 PM, XLAV wrote:
Mafia is OP again, but town won. Lol.

i was lost, i thought scum screwed up and lost

I honestly though you were scum Yay.
yay842
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3/18/2014 12:37:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/18/2014 12:36:12 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 3/18/2014 12:13:05 AM, yay842 wrote:
At 3/17/2014 11:22:26 PM, XLAV wrote:
Mafia is OP again, but town won. Lol.

i was lost, i thought scum screwed up and lost

I honestly though you were scum Yay.

we bought fazz's fake claim which is why i got no protection... i shouldnt have announced it even then
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XLAV
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3/18/2014 12:40:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/18/2014 12:37:55 AM, yay842 wrote:
At 3/18/2014 12:36:12 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 3/18/2014 12:13:05 AM, yay842 wrote:
At 3/17/2014 11:22:26 PM, XLAV wrote:
Mafia is OP again, but town won. Lol.

i was lost, i thought scum screwed up and lost

I honestly though you were scum Yay.

we bought fazz's fake claim which is why i got no protection... i shouldnt have announced it even then
Lol, if only Fazz didn't screw up.

Fazz why did you target TS? You should have targeted me or Ford since we were pretty much confirmed.
yay842
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3/18/2014 12:43:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/18/2014 12:40:01 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 3/18/2014 12:37:55 AM, yay842 wrote:
At 3/18/2014 12:36:12 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 3/18/2014 12:13:05 AM, yay842 wrote:
At 3/17/2014 11:22:26 PM, XLAV wrote:
Mafia is OP again, but town won. Lol.

i was lost, i thought scum screwed up and lost

I honestly though you were scum Yay.

we bought fazz's fake claim which is why i got no protection... i shouldnt have announced it even then
Lol, if only Fazz didn't screw up.

Fazz why did you target TS? You should have targeted me or Ford since we were pretty much confirmed.

yeah but theres no point in scum killing a town who literally poses no threat, maybe except their intelligence, but still, the role is more important.
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kiryasjoelvillage
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3/18/2014 1:38:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/18/2014 12:40:01 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 3/18/2014 12:37:55 AM, yay842 wrote:
At 3/18/2014 12:36:12 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 3/18/2014 12:13:05 AM, yay842 wrote:
At 3/17/2014 11:22:26 PM, XLAV wrote:
Mafia is OP again, but town won. Lol.

i was lost, i thought scum screwed up and lost

I honestly though you were scum Yay.

we bought fazz's fake claim which is why i got no protection... i shouldnt have announced it even then
Lol, if only Fazz didn't screw up.

Fazz why did you target TS? You should have targeted me or Ford since we were pretty much confirmed.
Yes totally
I also thought the same!!.
Josh_b
Posts: 1,119
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3/18/2014 9:33:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I pretty much suck at being mafia, I have enjoyed playing in the beginner games because it gives me a chance to try out some of the gambits from previous games.

What do you guys think about playing as mafia.

Do you play alone in the DP and then use the PM just for night actions, or do you discuss everything in the PM and make a plan of attack for the DP? or something else?

So far, I'm learning how important it is to know roles for both town and mafia. Lying about your role is sometimes very important on both sides, especially for town Doctor and PGO. You don't want to RB a Cop, or visit a watcher especially when you know they are town. There are a lot of pieces that go into a game that can't be known from just looking at the DP.
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XLAV
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3/18/2014 10:32:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/18/2014 9:33:02 AM, Josh_b wrote:
I pretty much suck at being mafia, I have enjoyed playing in the beginner games because it gives me a chance to try out some of the gambits from previous games.

What do you guys think about playing as mafia.
Stressful.


Do you play alone in the DP and then use the PM just for night actions, or do you discuss everything in the PM and make a plan of attack for the DP? or something else?
I think it's better if you don't communicate yet during the DP but discuss your plans during the NP.


So far, I'm learning how important it is to know roles for both town and mafia. Lying about your role is sometimes very important on both sides, especially for town Doctor and PGO. You don't want to RB a Cop, or visit a watcher especially when you know they are town. There are a lot of pieces that go into a game that can't be known from just looking at the DP.
Josh_b
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3/18/2014 10:41:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/18/2014 10:32:35 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 3/18/2014 9:33:02 AM, Josh_b wrote:
I pretty much suck at being mafia, I have enjoyed playing in the beginner games because it gives me a chance to try out some of the gambits from previous games.

What do you guys think about playing as mafia.
Stressful.


Do you play alone in the DP and then use the PM just for night actions, or do you discuss everything in the PM and make a plan of attack for the DP? or something else?
I think it's better if you don't communicate yet during the DP but discuss your plans during the NP.

I actually think this is what F'd us in playing the gambits. Oro was creeping the whole game. In DP1, I wanted him to VTL me for calling him scum to gain town cred between him and Fazz. We talked about in the PM but it never happened.
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XLAV
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3/18/2014 11:03:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/18/2014 10:41:59 AM, Josh_b wrote:
At 3/18/2014 10:32:35 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 3/18/2014 9:33:02 AM, Josh_b wrote:
I pretty much suck at being mafia, I have enjoyed playing in the beginner games because it gives me a chance to try out some of the gambits from previous games.

What do you guys think about playing as mafia.
Stressful.


Do you play alone in the DP and then use the PM just for night actions, or do you discuss everything in the PM and make a plan of attack for the DP? or something else?
I think it's better if you don't communicate yet during the DP but discuss your plans during the NP.

I actually think this is what F'd us in playing the gambits. Oro was creeping the whole game. In DP1, I wanted him to VTL me for calling him scum to gain town cred between him and Fazz. We talked about in the PM but it never happened.
The main reasons you were lynched is because of your behavior and your fake role claim. I already knew you were scum when you kept on stalling and not acting serious. You were not acting like your usual behavior.

Why would you claim a role that is lynch-activated?
Khaos_Mage
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3/18/2014 12:25:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Technically, TP should have third place, since he was targeted for death, unless a townie protected him.

As far as why TP was targeted for death? Why not? I would.
To be honest, I have forgotten a lot about the game, but in my opinion, no townie is going to waste their roles protecting a liability AKA joint-win survivor. The TP could easily stab you in the back at LYLO, so I wouldn't save him or watch him or anything. (maybe watch, but probably not)
Keep in mind that mafia aims for the majority population, they don't care who dies.

Personally, I called most of this DP1, I think.
When innocent child died with two protectors in play, I would have lynched one of the bodyguards. There is no reason to let a mod-confirmed player risk dying, for a role cop, that 1) isn't affiliation, and 2) is not confirmed. Why should you believe him?

Also, this is why you do not announce plans in the DP. as they can be manipulated.
Only plan if you have a good grasp of the game, and can reasonably assure victory with said plan, and almost always not until all roles have been revealed.
My work here is, finally, done.
ford_prefect
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3/18/2014 4:13:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/18/2014 12:25:10 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Technically, TP should have third place, since he was targeted for death, unless a townie protected him.

I didn't bodyguard him, so the only explanation I can think of is maybe bsh mod-killed fazz for revealing his role in the chat??

As far as why TP was targeted for death? Why not? I would.
To be honest, I have forgotten a lot about the game, but in my opinion, no townie is going to waste their roles protecting a liability AKA joint-win survivor. The TP could easily stab you in the back at LYLO, so I wouldn't save him or watch him or anything. (maybe watch, but probably not)
Keep in mind that mafia aims for the majority population, they don't care who dies.

Agreed.

Personally, I called most of this DP1, I think.
When innocent child died with two protectors in play, I would have lynched one of the bodyguards. There is no reason to let a mod-confirmed player risk dying, for a role cop, that 1) isn't affiliation, and 2) is not confirmed. Why should you believe him?

Um... what? XLAV didn't die. I targeted him for protection every time, for the exact reason you just said. No way I'm picking unconfirmed yay over confirmed XLAV. Fortunately for me, scum didn't ever target XLAV, so I didn't have to take a bullet for him.
yay842
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3/18/2014 10:41:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/18/2014 4:13:56 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 3/18/2014 12:25:10 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Technically, TP should have third place, since he was targeted for death, unless a townie protected him.

I didn't bodyguard him, so the only explanation I can think of is maybe bsh mod-killed fazz for revealing his role in the chat??

As far as why TP was targeted for death? Why not? I would.
To be honest, I have forgotten a lot about the game, but in my opinion, no townie is going to waste their roles protecting a liability AKA joint-win survivor. The TP could easily stab you in the back at LYLO, so I wouldn't save him or watch him or anything. (maybe watch, but probably not)
Keep in mind that mafia aims for the majority population, they don't care who dies.

Agreed.

Personally, I called most of this DP1, I think.
When innocent child died with two protectors in play, I would have lynched one of the bodyguards. There is no reason to let a mod-confirmed player risk dying, for a role cop, that 1) isn't affiliation, and 2) is not confirmed. Why should you believe him?

Um... what? XLAV didn't die. I targeted him for protection every time, for the exact reason you just said. No way I'm picking unconfirmed yay over confirmed XLAV. Fortunately for me, scum didn't ever target XLAV, so I didn't have to take a bullet for him.

still that was stupid, scum wouldnt even bothered killing XLAV in the first place, scum wouldnt kill someone who is confirmed town but has a Vanilla, theres no point to it literally, theyd want to go for someone who is an actual potential threat to them
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ford_prefect
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3/18/2014 10:55:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/18/2014 10:41:59 PM, yay842 wrote:
At 3/18/2014 4:13:56 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 3/18/2014 12:25:10 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Technically, TP should have third place, since he was targeted for death, unless a townie protected him.

I didn't bodyguard him, so the only explanation I can think of is maybe bsh mod-killed fazz for revealing his role in the chat??

As far as why TP was targeted for death? Why not? I would.
To be honest, I have forgotten a lot about the game, but in my opinion, no townie is going to waste their roles protecting a liability AKA joint-win survivor. The TP could easily stab you in the back at LYLO, so I wouldn't save him or watch him or anything. (maybe watch, but probably not)
Keep in mind that mafia aims for the majority population, they don't care who dies.

Agreed.

Personally, I called most of this DP1, I think.
When innocent child died with two protectors in play, I would have lynched one of the bodyguards. There is no reason to let a mod-confirmed player risk dying, for a role cop, that 1) isn't affiliation, and 2) is not confirmed. Why should you believe him?

Um... what? XLAV didn't die. I targeted him for protection every time, for the exact reason you just said. No way I'm picking unconfirmed yay over confirmed XLAV. Fortunately for me, scum didn't ever target XLAV, so I didn't have to take a bullet for him.

still that was stupid, scum wouldnt even bothered killing XLAV in the first place, scum wouldnt kill someone who is confirmed town but has a Vanilla, theres no point to it literally, theyd want to go for someone who is an actual potential threat to them

In my opinion, a confirmed town, even a Vanilla, is a significant threat to them. What is the main way town kill scum? By lynching. A confirmed Vanilla is guaranteed to never be lynched, and can be trusted by everyone to offer pro-town reads and analysis. Scum try to sow confusion and distrust among the town. The existence of confirmed town members greatly reduces their ability to execute these tactics. XLAV was immune from any suspicion, so he was a valuable asset for us.

Like Khaos said, scum wins by gaining a majority. They need a certain number of kills. Why not get an easy vanilla kill instead of potentially wasting a NK on a bulletproof, or worse a PGO or a bomb?
Khaos_Mage
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3/18/2014 10:59:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/18/2014 10:41:59 PM, yay842 wrote:

still that was stupid, scum wouldnt even bothered killing XLAV in the first place, scum wouldnt kill someone who is confirmed town but has a Vanilla, theres no point to it literally, theyd want to go for someone who is an actual potential threat to them

If there are three players left alive, and one is confirmed town, that is 50% chance mafia will die. If none are confirmed town, it is 33%.
My work here is, finally, done.
Josh_b
Posts: 1,119
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3/19/2014 7:22:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/18/2014 11:03:23 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 3/18/2014 10:41:59 AM, Josh_b wrote:
At 3/18/2014 10:32:35 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 3/18/2014 9:33:02 AM, Josh_b wrote:
I pretty much suck at being mafia, I have enjoyed playing in the beginner games because it gives me a chance to try out some of the gambits from previous games.

What do you guys think about playing as mafia.
Stressful.


Do you play alone in the DP and then use the PM just for night actions, or do you discuss everything in the PM and make a plan of attack for the DP? or something else?
I think it's better if you don't communicate yet during the DP but discuss your plans during the NP.

I actually think this is what F'd us in playing the gambits. Oro was creeping the whole game. In DP1, I wanted him to VTL me for calling him scum to gain town cred between him and Fazz. We talked about in the PM but it never happened.
The main reasons you were lynched is because of your behavior and your fake role claim. I already knew you were scum when you kept on stalling and not acting serious. You were not acting like your usual behavior.

Why would you claim a role that is lynch-activated?

The unlikely chance that it would CC'd. Secondly lynch activated roles are most always town. I was betting on the chance that being a town would prevent me from being lynched. But obviously my play was more than erratic enough to confirm me as mafia. I also thought that if I was killed with Oro and Fazz's votes, they would be confirmed as town. I purposely named Oro as scum hoping that he would enter the DP and lynch me for it. I think it mostly worked in confirming Fazz as town despite his noob behavior.
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Josh_b
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3/19/2014 7:34:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/18/2014 10:55:15 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 3/18/2014 10:41:59 PM, yay842 wrote:
At 3/18/2014 4:13:56 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 3/18/2014 12:25:10 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

Like Khaos said, scum wins by gaining a majority. They need a certain number of kills. Why not get an easy vanilla kill instead of potentially wasting a NK on a bulletproof, or worse a PGO or a bomb?

Ford you want to play another game?

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Oromagi
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3/20/2014 6:18:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I think it's better if you don't communicate yet during the DP but discuss your plans during the NP.

interesting. what are the advantages of not coordinating with your scum-mates during the DP?

I actually think this is what F'd us in playing the gambits. Oro was creeping the whole game. In DP1, I wanted him to VTL me for calling him scum to gain town cred between him and Fazz. We talked about in the PM but it never happened.

Creeping couldn't be helped. Every time I was free, the game was dead and any update from me just seemed to beg for an interrogation. From my perspective, the game started with GCL and fazz both wanting out. The next time I checked in, Josh had already slit his own throat and was trying to convince fazz to claim JOAT. I think Josh's suicide gambit was a fine idea, but by the time I was looking it seemed like Josh was going to survive into DP2 which would allow the preferable option of suicide + 1 NK.

My biggest problem with pulling off any kind of falsehood is that I keep running into uncertainty about what the actual output would look like.
Josh_b
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3/20/2014 8:08:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/20/2014 6:18:44 PM, Oromagi wrote:
I think it's better if you don't communicate yet during the DP but discuss your plans during the NP.

interesting. what are the advantages of not coordinating with your scum-mates during the DP?

I actually think this is what F'd us in playing the gambits. Oro was creeping the whole game. In DP1, I wanted him to VTL me for calling him scum to gain town cred between him and Fazz. We talked about in the PM but it never happened.

Creeping couldn't be helped. Every time I was free, the game was dead and any update from me just seemed to beg for an interrogation. From my perspective, the game started with GCL and fazz both wanting out. The next time I checked in, Josh had already slit his own throat and was trying to convince fazz to claim JOAT. I think Josh's suicide gambit was a fine idea, but by the time I was looking it seemed like Josh was going to survive into DP2 which would allow the preferable option of suicide + 1 NK.

My biggest problem with pulling off any kind of falsehood is that I keep running into uncertainty about what the actual output would look like.

Oro's role was JOAT. But he was inactive. Town JOAT seemed like a safe claim. I think it was Ford that caught on when the scum night actions were claimed, if it hadn't been for that, I would have believed Oro was town just on the fact that he was FoS'd by the scummiest person in the game.

Who cares what the outcome is? you can either win or lose. Some gambits have worked in the past, some haven't.
I can't remember which game it was, but all but one of the scum were killed by DP2. Then there were a series of town deaths until a watcher finally caught the last scum. It's good to look at past games and practice looking for scum. When I look at some games, I really wonder what went on the Mafia PM.

Ours probably just bugged BSH because it was mostly chatter about other stuff and Fazz's debate with Zaradi over the existence of Morals and whether or not we should help others.
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Oromagi
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3/20/2014 8:18:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
.

Oro's role was JOAT. But he was inactive. Town JOAT seemed like a safe claim.

Yeah, that's the part I don't get. How can Town JOAT be a safe claim in DP1? Without knowing other roles, it seemed entirely possible that somebody might check my role or fazz's role, as should have happened when I visited priest in DP1 If there was a town JOAT that would have been two mafia exposed instantly.

Seems to me a good rule of thumb for scum might be to never claim a role that one of your partners might be forced to claim later. If one of your partners is scum role cop, don't claim to be good role cop because a watcher, etc might later detect your partner's role.
Josh_b
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3/20/2014 8:44:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/20/2014 8:18:06 PM, Oromagi wrote:
.

Oro's role was JOAT. But he was inactive. Town JOAT seemed like a safe claim.

Yeah, that's the part I don't get. How can Town JOAT be a safe claim in DP1? Without knowing other roles, it seemed entirely possible that somebody might check my role or fazz's role, as should have happened when I visited priest in DP1 If there was a town JOAT that would have been two mafia exposed instantly.

Seems to me a good rule of thumb for scum might be to never claim a role that one of your partners might be forced to claim later. If one of your partners is scum role cop, don't claim to be good role cop because a watcher, etc might later detect your partner's role.

True. but mafia has the advantage of passing information to each other secretly.
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