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TV Tropes Mafia DP6

trekie
Posts: 772
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4/21/2014 12:31:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Lynched Last Phase

yay842 - You are 'Screw This, I'm Outta Here". You are smart enough to realize when torches and pitchforks are no longer a fashion statement and it"s time to get the hell out of dodge. You are 1xLYNCHPROOF. The first time you would be lynched, the day phase will end in a No Lynch instead.
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Mafia. The Mafia wins when it eliminates all opposing factions (or when nothing can prevent the same).

Died Last Night

XLAV - You are the "Scarily Competent Tracker". You are frighteningly accurate at following your quarry through any kind of environment. Thus you are the TRACKER. During the night you may select another player. You will learn who they visited, but not what action(s) they took.
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Town. The Town wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.

Previously Dead
Zaradi - Mafia JOAT
Noumena/Fazz - Town JOAT
Josh_b - Town Medium
Lucky_Luciano - TP Survivor (Turned into a posthumous Townie.)
TN05 - Town Motivator
SolonKR - Vanilla Townie
TN05(2)/Mastery - Town Bodyguard

Livivng Players
1. Khaos_Mage
2. Skepsikyma
3. Yraelz
4. ford_prefect

With 4 players alive, it takes 3 votes to lynch or 2 votes to end the DP in a "No Lynch".

~ 48 hours remaining
Deadline:
4/22/2014 12:27 AM Central Time (DDO time)
4/22/2014 7:27 AM Central European Time
Yraelz
Posts: 4,056
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4/21/2014 12:24:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Yo, you two (Skeps + Ford). In a typical MYLO situation it would be advantageous to NL and let the mafia kill one person. Doing so would lower the pool of potential suspects.

In this instance I think it's utterly pointless. At this point I'm about 99% certain that Khaos must be the final mafioso. I'm actually more concerned of giving him an extra NP/DP to do something jenky with.

In addition, if we were to NL this situation is going to end up exactly the same. It'll be Khaos, Ford and I, at which point it'll still be me hammering on the fact that Khaos is mafia.

I think my analysis yesterday is a pretty hardcore indication of Khaos' guilt. If you guys want to talk about the possibility of either Ford or Skeps being mafia I have a militia of reasons why neither option would make sense.

I think it's interesting to note that Yay revealed his true character but fake role claimed. If Khaos is to be believed then one of the remaining players must be a tree stumper. Aside from balance issues that role doesn't mesh with any of the previous claims. That's not to pretend that the final mafioso had to stick to their real character, I just think there's a chance they did after seeing Yay do so.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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4/21/2014 12:38:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm at work, but let the games begin!!! (I'll respond later tonight)
VTL Yraelz

Yraelz can talk circles around me all day, but let's look at theme/character...

Yraelz is the odd man out.
His role is the only character that does not describe an aspect of a character. Hell, it doesn't even move the plot along. As is comic relief, as his most of his attacks on me.

The theme is clearly evil vs. good.
Yraelz's character doesn't describe a character at all, let alone any aspect of good or evil. Town, TP, and even mafia characters did.

This is the best, objective, evidence for his being scum.
Factor this with previous arguments, and the choice is clear.
My work here is, finally, done.
Yraelz
Posts: 4,056
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4/21/2014 12:54:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Dead
TN05: Heart is an awesome power = Motivator
Josh: Word of God = Medium
SolonKR: Badass Normal = Vanilla
Zaradi: Evil is Cool = 1x Role Block, 1x Strongman, 1x Ninja, 1x Role Cop (mafia)
Noumena: Crazy-Prepared = Town JOAT
LuckyLuciano: Wild Card = Survivor
XLAV: Scarily Competent Tracker = Tracker
TNO5-2/Master: Taking The Bullet = Bodyguard
Yay: Screw This, I'm Outta Here = 1x Lynchproof (mafia)

Alive
Ford: Nigh-Invulnerable = Bulletproof
Skepsikyma: Most Definitely not a Villain = Miller
Yraelz: Brick Joke = Delay Bomb
Khaos: My Name is Inigo Montoya = Innocent Child

Relevant Links
Nigh-Invulnerable: http://tvtropes.org...
Most Definitely not a Villain: http://tvtropes.org...
Brick Joke: http://tvtropes.org...
My Name is Inigo Montoya: http://tvtropes.org...

Additional Notes:
I'm fairly disinterested in the character claims, all four of them are bifunctional in nature (could be evil or good). None of them interact with the proposed tree stump role. Both Skep's and Khaos' character could just as easily belong to a god father.

I asked Trekie if Zaradi's strongman would effect the bodyguard action. However, upon rereading the wording of TN05's death in DP5, Trekie very clearly refers to the bodyguard as a redirect (the standard). In that light I don't believe Zaradi and TN05/mastery's roles actually interact. Thus the only role that would interact with Zaradi's strongman is Ford's claimed BP. Trekie could have just given Zaradi a pointless strongman but I find that to be unlikely in a world where Zaradi's ninja was created to correspond with XLAV's tracker.

Honestly the more I think about Skeps and Zaradi's interaction in DP1 the more farfetched a gambit seems. Aside from what I said in DP5 the notion of gambit counterclaiming a miller is absurd. If scum can land a miller fake claim it basically affords them protection from investigation; in essence the miller is a fairly strong fake claim. To risk that fake claim (not knowing if there actually is a miller) but then to gambit counter claim it is stupid on three counts: 1. The scum team secures a good fake claim but then kills that player to secure the exact same fake claim. 2. The scum team throws away their JOAT who had pretty awesome powers. 3. The scum team doubly risks being real cc'd by a town miller. If that had happened then the scum team loses 2/3rds of it's members by the end of DP3.
Yraelz
Posts: 4,056
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4/21/2014 1:20:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/21/2014 12:38:11 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Yraelz can use logic all day, but let's try not to use that...

Fix'd

Yraelz is the odd man out.
His role is the only character that does not describe an aspect of a character.

a. TN05: Heart is an awesome power = Motivator

Describes a power.

b. Josh: Word of God = Medium

Describes an abstract concept / plot device.

c. LuckyLuciano: Wild Card = Survivor

Describes an inanimate object. Though it could describe someone's erratic behavior.

d. TNO5-2/Master: Taking The Bullet = Bodyguard

Describes an action.

e. Yay: Screw This, I'm Outta Here = 1x Lynchproof (mafia)

Describes an action / phrase.

Since this is a game about tropes literally all of us have described a plot/movie device in some way. It is equally easy to say that you, Khaos, are the odd man out. Your character claim is the only claim to actually refer to a character.

Hell, it doesn't even move the plot along.

If only there was a type of show where jokes were the main plot driving device... C-c-c-c-c-comed.... no, never mind, surely no such genre exists. I guess it's a relief that the topic of this game is "TV Tropes" and not "Plot Driving Devices". @.@

As is comic relief, as his most of his attacks on me.

My apologies. I didn't realize "Screw This, I'm Outta Here" and "Most Definitely Not a Villain" were super- serious TV conventions. I guess after watching so many c-c-c-c-omed.... eh, not-quite-serious TV shows, I was mislead.

I'd also apologize for the comical nature of my arguments, in a typical mafia game I'd be quite a bit more serious. However, the extra far fetched nature of your original attacks on me and your more resent defense of self are difficult to take seriously. In this instance I think it's more useful to delineate the holes in your arguments by examining the absurd thought processes underlying them.

The theme is clearly evil vs. good.

None of the four remaining character claims are either evil or good. At least two of the tropes actually state that they can be used by either evil or good characters. Yay's Trope page literally says this, "Allies of the Good Guys can pull this as well, but they're much more likely to return and save the day in the nick of time."

Yraelz's character doesn't describe a character at all, let alone any aspect of good or evil. Town, TP, and even mafia characters did.

Uh huh...

This is the best, objective, evidence for his being scum.

Step 1: Huck logic out the window.
Step 2: Ignore all arguments from DP5; ignore evidence from DP4.
Step 3: Subjectively reinterpret the game setup, ignore all outliers.
Step 4: It's cool, call it objective. Make sure to underline that sh!t.
Step 5: Pray that Yraelz' laptop crashes on his way to starbucks.

Factor this with previous arguments, and the choice is clear.

Step 6: Cry deeply when you lose the game after the near mislynch of your #1 mafia adversary goes terribly wrong.
Yraelz
Posts: 4,056
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4/21/2014 1:24:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/21/2014 12:54:31 PM, Yraelz wrote:
I asked Trekie if Zaradi's strongman would effect the bodyguard action. However, upon rereading the wording of TN05's death in DP5, Trekie very clearly refers to the bodyguard as a redirect (the standard). In that light I don't believe Zaradi and TN05/mastery's roles actually interact. Thus the only role that would interact with Zaradi's strongman is Ford's claimed BP. Trekie could have just given Zaradi a pointless strongman but I find that to be unlikely in a world where Zaradi's ninja was created to correspond with XLAV's tracker.

Trekie confirmed that Zaradi's strongman and TNO5's bodyguard do not interact. In a situation where TN05 bodygaurded Zaradi's strongman target, TNO5 would still be the one to die, because his role is a redirect. TN05 would be strong man killed.

Thus only Ford's claimed role interacts with Zaradi's strongman. In the absence of Ford's claim Zaradi's role is 100% useless. Pro.
trekie
Posts: 772
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4/21/2014 1:53:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Vote Count
"Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have f'ed with? That's me."

Khaos (1/3) - Yraelz
Yraelz (1/3) - Khaos
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,138
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4/21/2014 4:00:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm like 95% sure it's Khaos... but just to be certain, I want to hear what his theory is behind him getting tree stumped. Because as Yraelz said, there would have to be a tree-stumper in play for that to happen, and it sure ain't me or skep... So Khaos, basically you think Yraelz is a 1x tree-stumper? I don't buy that. Do you have anything else? If not, imma VTL you.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,285
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4/21/2014 10:06:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/21/2014 4:00:04 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
I'm like 95% sure it's Khaos... but just to be certain, I want to hear what his theory is behind him getting tree stumped. Because as Yraelz said, there would have to be a tree-stumper in play for that to happen, and it sure ain't me or skep... So Khaos, basically you think Yraelz is a 1x tree-stumper? I don't buy that. Do you have anything else? If not, imma VTL you.

I concur. Allow me to gather some popcorn...
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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4/22/2014 7:45:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/21/2014 4:00:04 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
I'm like 95% sure it's Khaos... but just to be certain, I want to hear what his theory is behind him getting tree stumped. Because as Yraelz said, there would have to be a tree-stumper in play for that to happen, and it sure ain't me or skep... So Khaos, basically you think Yraelz is a 1x tree-stumper? I don't buy that. Do you have anything else? If not, imma VTL you.

This sucks....I don't have time this DP to argue, given real life issues.

Yes, I think he is. I thought he was since he replaced in.
1. His defense of placing in mid-day was meaningless.
2. His posts pitting me vs. XLAV is fluff, since even I read XLAV as town DP4. It was a massive post to show analysis that proved nothing,
3. He himself suggested it was not MYLO.
4. He knows I am paranoid and analyitical, yet he scum reads me out of the blue, for nothing more than doing just that.
5. With all his role analysis, I did not see him claim why his role is balanced, nor what the final mafia role would be (if not tree-stump).
6. He contradicted himself DP3, regarding Skep's hammer.
7. He was arguing things pre-emptively, including telling me to put in my night actions. Setting up a frame job, so I could not use a time defense.
8. The timing of my tree stump makes sense. TUF was AWOL all game, NP1 waived action. NP2 comes along, and Zaradi or Yay asks (or even trekkie offers) if they can use TUF's role. They do, and target one of the better players (or at least not noob), and one they know nothing about the role or is a mislynch target, thus CREATING one.
9. Yraelz demanded a mass claim, but did not out his role until last.
10. Yraelz both forgot my claim and my suspicion of him DP3. Using my "new" suspicion as evidence of my scumminess.
11. Role analysis - a bomb is too OP given the fact that BP is unkillable unless 1x strongman is used correctly. Tracker, given the 4 other non-passive roles, which hurts mafia. My IC makes sense, since there is no cop.
12. Yraelz contradicted himself with role analysis, since he claimed there was no cop because Noumena was even though there was a miller, but there was a BP because of Zaradi's strongman. How does this flow? 1x and permenant role proves a role in one case but not another? (I'm not saying Ford is scum, but the logic is flawed)
13. Character Analysis - As I said, and no matter how Yraelz is trying to spin it above, every character deals with an aspect of a character which moves the plot along.
Yraelz is not about a character, nor deals with plot.

TN05: Heart is an awesome power = Motivator
Personified to win the day (think: Frozen) -
Josh: Word of God = Medium
Relating to authority (i.e. characteristic)
SolonKR: Badass Normal = Vanilla
Clearly relating to their characteristics
Zaradi: Evil is Cool = 1x Role Block, 1x Strongman, 1x Ninja, 1x Role Cop (mafia)
Allows for conflict to occur, deals with an external characteristic of someone (like being wealthy)
Noumena: Crazy-Prepared = Town JOAT
Aspect that allows conflict to reach a resolution
LuckyLuciano: Wild Card = Survivor
TP, so exempt from the order, but even so, an aspect of a person
XLAV: Scarily Competent Tracker = Tracker
Characteristic of a man who moves the plot forward
TNO5-2/Master: Taking The Bullet = Bodyguard
Plot device, sacrifice (aspect)
Yay: Screw This, I'm Outta Here = 1x Lynchproof (mafia)
Person gives up (defeatist) to allow ease for the heroes, or comes back to save the day as a hero

Alive
Ford: Nigh-Invulnerable = Bulletproof
Cannot be harmed. Hmmmm, characteristic?
Skepsikyma: Most Definitely not a Villain = Miller
A comic device for exposition and moving plot forward (intel), dealing with a person who is NOT something else....charcter aspect
Yraelz: Brick Joke = Delay Bomb
Ummm... a joke for comic relief - neither plot relevant nor character aspect
Khaos: My Name is Inigo Montoya = Innocent Child
Feudalistic man seeking revenge

Need I say more?
What, exactly have I done that is scummy?
Admitted Yay was scum, and not lynched him? I'll try to expand on the cop gambit at lunch. (depends if I eat or not)

But, the jist of it is this:
But, look at the players, Yraelz needed town cred, and lynching Yay put us at MYLO, with no one to offer any results.
Lynching the tree stumper gives me town cred, but puts suspicion on Ford (Yraelz didn't fully endorse him until MYLO).

It is clear Yraelz is scum.
Lynch him, please.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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4/22/2014 8:24:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Also, why did Yay fake result Yraelz?
Why not Ford, the much easier target?
The answer: town cred.

Works well with his fake claim, too.
Lynch him, we lose, at either DP4, or later.
How convenient...
My work here is, finally, done.
Yraelz
Posts: 4,056
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4/22/2014 9:38:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Your mafioso style occasionally comes to resemble a presidential smear campaign in the United States. That is to say, you tend to ignore logical points leveraged against you, you continue to repeat your own points without regard, and you generally relay on the stupidity of your audience. In this case, these things are probably happening because you haven't felt inclined to read all of the posts in this game. That said, the strategy is not a particularly viable mafioso strategy because the forum is, quite simply, too small for you to gain much traction.

If you want to win as a mafioso, consistently, you have to replicate the way you analyze as a townie. Even if that sometimes means that you make anti-mafia decisions.

At 4/22/2014 7:45:30 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
This sucks....I don't have time this DP to argue, given real life issues.

The first time you said this I was thinking you were mafia. It's very reminiscent of that game where you kept trying to obscure incoming reads ("I'm unreadable! I think different!"). What threw me off was a post during DP3 where you said something like, "I guess my plans fell through and I'll be on a lot more today." That seemed like a very pro-town thing to say. In reality though it appears that you go through two phases as a mafioso. The first revolves around attempting to stop people from reading you, the second occurs when you believe you have the game in the bag. At that point you switch over into this doesn't-matter-what-I-say mode, I'll get this lynch through! Next time I'll be better at spotting it. ^.^

Yes, I think he is. I thought he was since he replaced in.

False. After subbing in, with two mafia left, you accused TNO5 and Skeps of a scum-scum interaction: http://www.debate.org...

In fact, you did no bother responding to my defense of the contradiction. Instead you opted to kill TN05.

1. His defense of placing in mid-day was meaningless.

Blatant Mis-characterization. In DP3 you suggested that I might have replaced in just in time to tree stump you (http://www.debate.org...). In DP4 you blatantly accused me of replacing in, just in time to tree stump you (http://www.debate.org...).

You falsely accused me of something that you could have (would have if you were town) cleared up with the mod. My "defense" was dispelling your false accusation with Trekie's mod input.

2. His posts pitting me vs. XLAV is fluff, since even I read XLAV as town DP4. It was a massive post to show analysis that proved nothing,

False. Since a lynchproof made DP4 into MYLO the only two mafia possibilities were: XLAV and Khaos. Now it's just you.

3. He himself suggested it was not MYLO.

False. Reading fail. I clearly state, with a day by day breakdown, that DP4 was MYLO: http://www.debate.org...

4. He knows I am paranoid and analyitical, yet he scum reads me out of the blue, for nothing more than doing just that.

False. I scum read you initially because you tried to frame me. You tried to frame me with a line of analysis that a "paranoid" version of you would have already asked the mod about:

http://www.debate.org...

In fact, that's my #1 point against you when I state that it's a Khaos + Yay scum team:

http://www.debate.org...

5. With all his role analysis, I did not see him claim why his role is balanced, nor what the final mafia role would be (if not tree-stump).

This is actually pretty funny. If I were mafia right now in this game I would probably be thinking, "damn, that bomb is over powered, I can't kill him!" At the beginning of this game there were 9 townies, 1 TP and 3 mafia. If I had been lynched there was a 9/13 chance that the hammer was a townie. Bomb is a bidirectional role, it can harm either the town or mafia, and for a huge portion of the game it has a higher risk of harming the town.

The remaining mafioso is probably the godfather. I like how you're leveraging things I didn't do to try to paint me as scum.

6. He contradicted himself DP3, regarding Skep's hammer.

Previously answered:
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

Contradictions are important in mafia if they demonstrate a motivation that indicates affiliation. Since you've never replied to my posts I've yet to see the bridge your drawing between my contradiction and me being scum.

7. He was arguing things pre-emptively, including telling me to put in my night actions. Setting up a frame job, so I could not use a time defense.

FLUFF. Analyzing the future state of the game isn't a scum tell, if anything it's town. I blatantly accused you of being scum in DP4, I already stated my role is passive so I couldn't frame you even if I wanted to. And WTF is a time defense!? I asked you to put your action in so that we could get DP6 faster and so I could beat you faster.

8. The timing of my tree stump makes sense. TUF was AWOL all game, NP1 waived action. NP2 comes along, and Zaradi or Yay asks (or even trekkie offers) if they can use TUF's role. They do, and target one of the better players (or at least not noob), and one they know nothing about the role or is a mislynch target, thus CREATING one.

No. If the mafia had wanted to use a tree stump during NP1 then they would have asked Trekie. There are very few mods that disallow mafia role use of inactives by the team as a whole. In a game where the tree stump did actually exist it is equally likely that the mafia simply waited one NP to determine which players they did not want to use it on (read: Tree stumping a vanilla probably sucks).

All of this analysis assumes that the tree stump could even exist in this game which doesn't make a lick of sense as per my DP5 analysis. Your answer to all of that analysis is, "but Yraelz doesn't tell us why a bomb would be balanced!!!!" Which is not an answer at all; I previously demonstrated why a tree stumper does not mesh with the mafia composition.

Continued in next post....
Yraelz
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4/22/2014 10:20:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 7:45:30 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
9. Yraelz demanded a mass claim, but did not out his role until last.

True. However, I stated that I had a passive role during early DP3:
http://www.debate.org...

That action hugely limited the list of possible claims I could make which is a very anti-mafia action. Also your characterization is kinda dumb considering that there were only 3 people with roles that hadn't been revealed: Yay, XLAV, and I.

10. Yraelz both forgot my claim and my suspicion of him DP3. Using my "new" suspicion as evidence of my scumminess.

True then False. I did forget you had claimed. I'm not sure why that would be a scum tell. I did not forget your suspicion.

In DP3 you characterized me as "maybe" subbing in, in time to tree stump you. By DP4 you had neglected to ask the mod and were blatantly accusing me of having done that. I used, and maintain, that your "new" spin was anti-town and anti-Khaos town play style. You say something later that was like, "I've decided to stop asking mods questions." I think that's B.S.

The other thing you carried over from DP3 was my contradiction. But I have yet to see you either respond to my posts about that or tell us why that would mean I'm scummy. All I've seen you do is just keep repeating "he contradicted himself" which I quite frankly don't care about.

11. Role analysis - a bomb is too OP given the fact that BP is unkillable unless 1x strongman is used correctly. Tracker, given the 4 other non-passive roles, which hurts mafia. My IC makes sense, since there is no cop.

Logic Fail. I'm going to paraphrase this, here we go,

"A bomb, a role that can hurt either town or mafia is OP, but a role that MOD CONFIRMS one player is totally balanced!"

The best part is that you mention the Tracker in your post. Let's get this straight. The town starts with an infinite Tracker, a 1x Cop, and a medium (which gave some affiliation information) and you think that a role MOD CONFIRMING a player is legit? That's honestly worse than Yay842's cop claim, at least with a Cop you have to aim it.

As previously mentioned my role has a much higher chance of hurting the town for quite a while. Overall my role is more likely to kill a townie than a mafioso. Especially considering that SOP on DDO is typically to regard bombs with skepticism.

12. Yraelz contradicted himself with role analysis, since he claimed there was no cop because Noumena was even though there was a miller, but there was a BP because of Zaradi's strongman. How does this flow?

Blatant Lie or Logic Fail. "Yraelz contradicted himself with role analysis since he claimed there was no cop because there was a cop (Noumena) even though there was a miller."

I claimed Noumena was the only Cop power in the game. I also verified with Trekie who told me the medium might interact with the miller:

http://www.debate.org...

There exist at least one role which interacts with the miller (possibly two), thus these roles make sense together. In the same vein of analysis, there exists a role which interacts with Zaradi's strongman. And one that interacts with his ninja.

1x and permenant role proves a role in one case but not another? (I'm not saying Ford is scum, but the logic is flawed)

Zaradi S-MAN = Ford BP
Zaradi Ninja = XLAV Tracks
Skeps Miller = Noumena COP + possibly the medium role.

I'm not seeing the logic flaw.

13. Character Analysis - As I said, and no matter how Yraelz is trying to spin it above, every character deals with an aspect of a character which moves the plot along.
Yraelz is not about a character, nor deals with plot.

TN05: Heart is an awesome power = Motivator
Personified to win the day (think: Frozen) -

Brick Joke... personified to alleviate tension (think: Every Comedy Ever)

Josh: Word of God = Medium
Relating to authority (i.e. characteristic)

Brick Joke relates to humor (i.e. characteristic)

SolonKR: Badass Normal = Vanilla
Clearly relating to their characteristics
Zaradi: Evil is Cool = 1x Role Block, 1x Strongman, 1x Ninja, 1x Role Cop (mafia)
Allows for conflict to occur, deals with an external characteristic of someone (like being wealthy)

Still not a character trait.

Noumena: Crazy-Prepared = Town JOAT
Aspect that allows conflict to reach a resolution
LuckyLuciano: Wild Card = Survivor
TP, so exempt from the order, but even so, an aspect of a person
XLAV: Scarily Competent Tracker = Tracker
Characteristic of a man who moves the plot forward
TNO5-2/Master: Taking The Bullet = Bodyguard
Plot device, sacrifice (aspect)
Yay: Screw This, I'm Outta Here = 1x Lynchproof (mafia)
Person gives up (defeatist) to allow ease for the heroes, or comes back to save the day as a hero

Brick Joke: Person tells a joke (comic relief) to ease the tension for the heroes.

Alive
Ford: Nigh-Invulnerable = Bulletproof
Cannot be harmed. Hmmmm, characteristic?
Skepsikyma: Most Definitely not a Villain = Miller
A comic device for exposition and moving plot forward (intel), dealing with a person who is NOT something else....charcter aspect

A comic device.... WOW that sounds so dissimilar to Brick Joke. -_-

Yraelz: Brick Joke = Delay Bomb
Ummm... a joke for comic relief - neither plot relevant nor character aspect
Khaos: My Name is Inigo Montoya = Innocent Child
Feudalistic man seeking revenge

Need I say more?

Khaos: "Yraelz claim is not about a character!"
Yraelz: "Khaos claim is the only character!"

Your claim is as exclusive as mine is Khaos. Also the analysis I've posted above delineates how multiple characters don't fit the framework you're trying to construct. You could just as easily apply that poor logic to justify my character, you're simply choosing not to.

What, exactly have I done that is scummy?

That's mostly detailed in DP4 and DP5 in posts like these (the ones you didn't bother reading I take it):
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

Admitted Yay was scum, and not lynched him? I'll try to expand on the cop gambit at lunch. (depends if I eat or not)

Dunno what that was meant to say but I distinctly remember you trying to lynch me over Yay during DP4. Despite a plethora of logical analysis against Yay.

But, the jist of it is this:
But, look at the players, Yraelz needed town cred, and lynching Yay put us at MYLO, with no one to offer any results.

DP4 was MYLO, I already proved that. A mislynch by the mafia on DP4 was a mafia win. You're suggesting that the mafia, instead of winning, used their 1x lynchproof to kill one of their own and gain some town cred on their final member. I only have 850 characters left Khaos... I literally can't spell the word dumb with enough of 'U' in it.

Lynching the tree stumper gives me town cred, but puts suspicion on Ford (Yraelz didn't fully endorse him until MYLO).

Please:
http://www.debate.org...

The funniest part is, you actually read this post because you pointed out the contradiction.

It is clear Yraelz is scum.
Lynch him, please.

L....O......L.....
Yraelz
Posts: 4,056
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4/22/2014 10:42:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 8:24:01 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Also, why did Yay fake result Yraelz?

Re-re-re-rewind! A mafia mislynch on DP4 was a gauranteed mafia win. Don't worry I'll keep repeating this every single time you ignore it. Aside from that the mafia probably also chose me because I was the only person to not have claimed. From a mafia standpoint, not knowing my role, I could have claimed something like "beloved princess." The fact that they frame copped me would over ride such a role claim.

Why not Ford, the much easier target?

Numbers. I had defended the fkkk out of Ford. Which meant Yay framing Ford would set up a DP4 where you and Yay were arguing against Ford and I. Framing me set up a DP4 where Yay and You were arguing exclusively against me. Nobody had defended me, since I subbed in late, so you guys didn't run a risk of another townie randomly opposing you.

The answer: town cred.

A mafia mislynch on DP4 was a gauranteed mafia win.

Your answer "town cred" supposes that the mafia threw a way a guaranteed win in order to kill one of their own and gain some town cred.

http://f0.thejournal.ie...

Dude, I win a fair amount of mafia games (sometimes with you on my team), if you were honestly town there is no way you would be making this argument against me. I am not that dumb.

Works well with his fake claim, too.

Yeah... my ingenious plan:
1. Throw away the guaranteed win.
2. Get a scary fake claim.

The best part is, it took me almost 12 hours to come up with the analysis that demonstrated that Yay was a fraud. You'd think, having "pre-planned" this whole thing, I might have figured that sh!t out before hand. Instead I spent nearly 10 hours at L-1 under major risk of being hammered out of my " convenient fake claim". #MafiaPlanOfTheAges

Lynch him, we lose, at either DP4, or later.

Sorry, I thought I caught you saying earlier that bomb was too pro-town to be balanced. Did you just argue that bomb would make the town lose? -_-

How convenient...

I also like saying two word phrases, it's just I think mine should be justified with logic:

Mafia Loss...
Yraelz
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4/22/2014 10:44:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/21/2014 12:31:55 AM, trekie wrote:
Deadline:
4/22/2014 12:27 AM Central Time (DDO time)
4/22/2014 7:27 AM Central European Time

Between 25 and 26 hours remain in this game.
Yraelz
Posts: 4,056
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4/22/2014 11:01:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Also Khaos...

Today:
At 4/22/2014 7:45:30 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
What, exactly have I done that is scummy?

Yesterday:
At 4/20/2014 7:01:49 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
and killing me (if town) is the best mislynch given my scummy situation.

What happened? Take a shower with scum-begone this morning? lol

http://memegenerator.net...
trekie
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4/22/2014 11:15:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Vote Count
"But if any of you wish to beg for mercy, the great Jabba the Hutt will now listen to your pleas."

Khaos (1/3) - Yraelz
Yraelz (1/3) - Khaos

~13 hours remaining
Yraelz
Posts: 4,056
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4/22/2014 11:47:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 11:15:43 AM, trekie wrote:
Vote Count
"But if any of you wish to beg for mercy, the great Jabba the Hutt will now listen to your pleas."

Khaos (1/3) - Yraelz
Yraelz (1/3) - Khaos

~13 hours remaining

My bad, 12 a.m. vs. p.m. is a difficult concept lol
Yraelz
Posts: 4,056
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4/22/2014 3:09:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Skeps,
Please, I know you're out there,
People are asking where you've been.
They say "have courage", and I'm trying to
I'm waiting here for you, just start hammer'in
We only have the town,
Just you Ford and I.
What are we gonna do?

Do you wanna hammer Khaos....
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,285
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4/22/2014 5:06:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Well, after reviewing the arguments thoroughly, I with some small amount of trepidation...

VTL Khaos
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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4/22/2014 8:25:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 5:41:36 PM, Yraelz wrote:
So Khaos, now that we're done.

What was your thought process behind choosing me for the gambit?

I was left alone, with no one to talk to :/
I was spouting different ideas, and Yay just went with the cop, and decided to target you.
I thought between the noobs, they wouldn't overthink the cop gambit, and considering you led the mislynch on TN05 and contradicted yourself, two would vote, thus allowing me to hammer, and us to win.
I figured you were BP or bomb (I think bomb overpowered the town, IMO), so we didn't kill you NP3.

But, the character didn't go well with it, and you know I bounce lots of ideas around, some good, many bad.

Oh, well. I was scum read for some stupid reasons, but there were valid ones, too.
I really was busy, you know.
(and it took me forever to find my trope through the links)
My work here is, finally, done.