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TV Tropes Mafia Endgame

trekie
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4/23/2014 1:53:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Town and Lucky wins!

Previous Day Phases
DP1: http://www.debate.org...
DP2: http://www.debate.org...
DP3: http://www.debate.org...
DP4: http://www.debate.org...
DP5: http://www.debate.org...
DP6: http://www.debate.org...

Dramatis Personae

Town(10)

1) Skepsikyma
You are 'Most Definitely Not a Villain'. If anybody asks, you are totally Mafia. You appear guilty to investigations as any other self-respecting Mafioso would, you love to pick on noobs, and are really big on the whole night kill issue. Lynching people? The stuff your dreams are made of. If only the rest of the Mafia could just point you in the townies direction... you respect their need for privacy, of course, but you would hate to lynch one of them on accident. Professional courtesy, and all that. Really, you are up to no good, just like them, cross your black heart and hope to die. You are the MILLER. You appear as if you were sided with the Mafia to investigative roles.
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Town. The Town wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.

2) TUF/Yraelz
You are the 'Brick Joke'. It may take some time for you to get to the punchline but you can guarantee it's gonna be a blast. You are the TIME BOMB. If you are killed at night, your attacker will also die at the end of the subsequent day phase. If you are lynched, the last person to vote for you will also die at the end of the subsequent day phase. Your full role won't be revealed in the OP until your killer/hammerer is dead.
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Town. The Town wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.

3) Josh_b
You are 'Word of God'. You are the ultimate authority in all things TV Tropes Mafia with a 100% Mod approval rating. As such, you are the MEDIUM. Each night you will learn predetermined information about the game setup.
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Town. The Town wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.

The info Josh would have received:
NP1 - There was one third-party at the start of the game.
NP2 - At least 2 out of the following 5 characters were in the game at the start: "Bittersweet Ending", "Evil Is Cool", "Good Is Not Nice", "Wild Card", and "Plot Armor".
NP3 - There were 3 mafia to begin with at the start of the game.
NP4 - There are no hidden flavors in the game.
NP5 - You will live to see Day 6!

4) XLAV
You are the "Scarily Competent Tracker'. You are frighteningly accurate at following your quarry through any kind of environment. Thus you are the TRACKER. During the night you may select another player. You will learn who they visited, but not what action(s) they took.
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Town. The Town wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.

5) TN05
You are 'Heart Is an Awesome Power'. While useless by your lonesome, you thrive on giving a boost to others, and as such, you are the 2xMOTIVATOR. During the night you may target another player. That player may perform an additional action above and beyond what they normally would be able to do.
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Town. The Town wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.

6) Noumena/Fazz
You are 'Crazy-Prepared'. Some might say you are a bit of an overachiever, but one can never have too many abilities at their disposal for catching scum. That's what Granny Crazy-Prepared used to say, anyway. You are the JACK-OF-ALL-TRADES. During the night you may use one of the following 1-shot abilities:
1xDoctor - You may select another player. That player will be protected from lethal actions.
1xCharacter Cop - You may select another player. You will receive the name of their character.
1xCop - You may select another player. You will learn if that player is innocent or guilty.
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Town. The Town wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.

7) Mastery/TN05(2)
You are 'Taking the Bullet'. You can't wait to leap into the path of a bullet in a heroic act of self-sacrifice. Thus you are the BODYGUARD. Each night you may select another player. All lethal actions targeting that player will be redirected to you, instead.
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Town. The Town wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.

8) SolonKR
You are the 'Badass Normal'. You may not have any night actions, but you make up for it through sheer intellect. You are the VANILLA TOWNIE. You contribute to the game immensely with your input, and your vote!
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Town. The Town wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.

9) ford_prefect
You are 'Nigh-Invulnerability'. You've become less allergic to hostile environments as of late. Maybe you shouldn't have been messing around with your genetic code or stoped showering with products labeled "X". Oh, well. You are 1xBULLETPROOF. You are immune to the first kill that would otherwise resolve on you during the night.
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Town. The Town wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.

Third Party(1)

10) Lucky_Luciano
You are the 'Wild Card'. As long as you get what you want you couldn"t care less about who do you have to sell out in the process. You are the SURVIVOR. When you are night killed for the first time you have the option to either a) die and change your original win-condition to win with the Town, or b) survive and modify your original win condition to allow for a joint win with the Mafia.
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with Yourself. You win if you survive until either faction meets its win condition.

Mafia(3)

11) Zaradi
You are 'Evil Is Cool'. Bad guys have all the cool toys, thus you are the JACK-OF-ALL-TRADES. During the night you may use one of the following X-shot abilities:
1xNinja - No action you take will appear on any investigative or informative role report.
1xStrongman - When carrying out the night kill, your target will die regardless of any protections.
2xRoleblocker - You may select another player and prevent them from taking any action.
1xRolecop - You may select another player. You will receive their role PM.
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Mafia. The Mafia wins when it eliminates all opposing factions (or when nothing can prevent the same).

12) Yay
You are 'Screw This, I'm Outta Here'. You are smart enough to realize when torches and pitchforks are no longer a fashion statement and it"s time to get the hell out of dodge. You are 1xLYNCHPROOF. The first time you would be lynched, the day phase will end in a No Lynch instead.
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Mafia. The Mafia wins when it eliminates all opposing factions (or when nothing can prevent the same).

13) Khaos_Mage
You are 'Surveillance As The Plot Demands'. No townie can hide from your omnipotent sight. It doesn't matter if they're three galaxies away or five thousand years in the past, you can still spy on them. As such, you are the LOOKOUT. Each night you may select another player. You will learn who visited them, but not what action(s) were performed.
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Mafia. The Mafia wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.
trekie
Posts: 772
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4/23/2014 1:56:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Night Actions

NP1
XLAV tracks Josh. (Josh didn't visit anyone.)
Mastery waives.
Josh receives game setup info. ("There was one third-party at the start of the game.")
TN05 motivates Skep. (Passive role, no effect.)
Fazz (sub-in for Noumena) character cops TUF. (TUF is the "Brick Joke". Dies, so doesn't get the result.)
Yay kills Fazz(sub-in for Noumena). (Successful.)
Khaos watches Josh. (Josh was visited by XLAV.)

NP2
XLAV tracks Mastery. (Mastery didn't visit anyone.)
Mastery forfeites due to inactivity.
TN05 motivates Khaos. (Khaos gets an extra watcher action.)
Yay kills Lucky (Successful.)
Khaos watches himself and Lucky. (Khaos was visited by TN05. Lucky was visited by Yay.)
Lucky chooses to die and becomes a posthumus townie.

NP3
XLAV tracks Yraelz. (Yraelz didn't visit anyone.)
TN05(2) protects Khaos.
Yay kills Solon. (Successful.)
Khaos watches Yay. (Yay was visited by no one.)

NP4
XLAV tracks Yay. (Yay visited TN05.)
TN05(2) protects Khaos. (Dies.)
Yay kills TN05. (Successful.)
Khaos waives.

NP5
XLAV tracks Khaos. (Khaos visited XLAV. Dies, so doesn't get the result.)
Khaos kills XLAV. (Successful.)
trekie
Posts: 772
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4/23/2014 2:13:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Theme
The overall theme was simply good vs evil, or more precisely the sides with which the selected tropes were the most associated. I did throw in a couple of town outliers, like the netural concepts of "Brick Joke" and "Word of God" and the more bad guy associated "Nigh-Invulnerability". Two of these were also natural mislynch targets by being Bomb and Bulletproof. Mafia had a plethora of characters to choose from as long as they knew what role they wanted to fake claim. I was honestly crying inside a little when Town intially started to buy into Zaradi's mass character claim idea on DP1. That would have clearly benefited the mafia, since characters were heavily associated with their roles. I was also pretty appealed at how little character analysis was happening in the game prior to Yraelz showing up. Anybody who had bothered to type Yay's claim into the search bar on the tvtropes site should have realized that his character had nothing to do with being a cop. Even Mafia knew it was a huge stretch, but they were hoping to end the game right then and there, so that's more excusable.

Balancing
I'm honestly not sure about this one. Mafia had a lot of powerful roles with the JOAT's abilities and Yay's 1xLynchproof, Khaos could have also had a solid watcher fake claim to fall back on. On Town's end, the Bomb's death was almost guaranteed to take out a mafioso even if it was delayed by a phase. The 1xBulletproof, Noumena's 1xDoc, and Lucky's possible 1xUnkillability at night could have easily caused Mafia a lot of headaches in terms of failed kills. The Bodyguard also had the potential to save a PR for an extra day, even from the Strongman kill. Numbers wise, the Town had 2 free mislynches (+ the no lynch of Yay) avaiable to them, while scum needed 3 mislynces to win. I think that's fair with 3 mafia.

The Miller
The original purpose of a Miller is to be a mislynch by design. Since it's SOP on the site to claim it right out of the gate on DP1 it becomes far less effective in that regard, so in order to still make the Miller look scummy I decieded to not include a full-time cop in the game. However, Skep's CC of the Mafia JOAT nullified any sort of intention I had with that. Alternately, it could still make a fake mafia cop look more legit if they've ever got in a good position to claim it. (They never have, since both remaining mafioso had already character claimed before figuring out there was no cop. Their decision to still go with a Cop gambit was mind-boggling to me on many levels, but more on that later.)

The Third Party
It ultimately didn't end up effecting the game too much, but Lucky told me in his PM that he thought this role would be overpowered in the hands of a passive player. And I have to agree, I probably could have done a better job with this one. Regardless, the option to die as a townie was suppose to encourage the player to be active and pro-town, while the Mafia would have been somewhat compensated for a failed kill with the joint-win allowence. The grey area would have been if he won above Town after dodging a nigh-kill, so I tried to tipp Town off early to his existence via the Medium role. He also would have came under scrutiny if he decided to go with the natural fit of a Bulletproof fake claim.

Overall
The game became close and came down to 4 players at the end, but I feel like that had more to do with individual player choices rather than balancing. So overall, I think the Mafia probably had an edge over Town, but this game just proves that anything can happen due to strange circumstances.

Town MVP - Yraelz
Without a doubt. He was absolutely right in his assertion on DP4 that Town was at MYLO. He then successfully convinced his fellow townies to see reason and vote Yay. His relentless analysis of both the characters and gameplay pegged Khaos as the last scum which in turn led to the eventual Town win on DP6.

Mafia MVP - Khaos
I thought both remaining mafioso played well in leading/nudging Town onto the DP2/DP3 mislynches while simultanesly remaining town-read by most players (I'm looking at you TN05! :P). But Khaos was the one really carrying the team after Zaradi"s untimely demise. (There wasn't much feedback from the others in the PM.) So even though the mafia play was plagued by some boneheaded choices during DP1 and DP4, Khaos was making up for it during the night. Taking out the Town JOAT on NP1, getting rid of the game savvy Lucky, pegging XLAV as the tracker early, and realizing that Yraelz was likely Bomb or BP. A good and valiant effort until the very end even if it didn't result in a win.

WTF Moment of the Game - Cop Gambit on DP4
This might not have been obvious to everybody at the time, I'm guessing not even to the mafia, but they had a 6 hour window to end the game and win on DP4 by blitzing Ford when he had 2 votes on (XLAV and TN05's). Instead, mafia decided to do a Cop gambit. As a spectator, this was mind-boggling to me on many levels. It's one thing that Yay's character didn't jive with a Cop claim, - the mafia was well aware of that fact, - but the choice to frame Yraelz with the fake guilty instead of the more scummy looking Ford was absolutely beyond me. The only thing more surreal was the fact that it still almost worked! If Yraelz was a lesser player and he didn't write up page long analysis after page long analysis of Yay's guilt and the possible MYLO situation, town might have not even bothered looking into Yay's claim, and would have just lynched Yraelz on the "1-on-1 trades still benfit the town" mantra. Honestly, I felt like Town got a little cocky after the DP1 scum lynch.
Runner-ups:
- Zaradi walking into the Miller CC on DP1.
Bit of a trivia here, Zaradi was not purposely doing a miller-gambit, he was planning to claim town roleblocker from the get go. People simply started assuming that he was miller based on his character claim, and since he didn't deny it and played along, things snowballed from there when Skep came into the DP. It turned one of mafia's mislynch targets into a confirmed townie and got their most versatile role lynched on the first DP.
- Skep's hammer of Josh into the 21st post of the 2nd DP.
I have to agree that this was just dumb. Even if you've already decided who's gonna be the lynchee of the day, you should at least wait to hear from everybody, and gather their stances on the subject. Skep later cited that he was testing for reactions, and looking at behaviour, which is nice, but his theory about how scum would react to his stunt was not entirely accurate or even very distinguishable from the townie reactions.

Anyway, thanks to all for playing, and feel free to point out any issues you had with my modding or game balance. I want to improve if needed and provide a better experience next time around!
XLAV
Posts: 13,703
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4/23/2014 3:14:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/23/2014 1:53:09 AM, trekie wrote:
3) Josh_b
You are 'Word of God'. You are the ultimate authority in all things TV Tropes Mafia with a 100% Mod approval rating. As such, you are the MEDIUM. Each night you will learn predetermined information about the game setup.
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Town. The Town wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.

The info Josh would have received:
NP1 - There was one third-party at the start of the game.
NP2 - At least 2 out of the following 5 characters were in the game at the start: "Bittersweet Ending", "Evil Is Cool", "Good Is Not Nice", "Wild Card", and "Plot Armor".
NP3 - There were 3 mafia to begin with at the start of the game.
NP4 - There are no hidden flavors in the game.
NP5 - You will live to see Day 6!

What info would he recieved on NP6?
trekie
Posts: 772
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4/23/2014 3:23:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/23/2014 3:14:05 AM, XLAV wrote:
What info would he recieved on NP6?
"Don't trust anyone, they could be scum!" But seriously, I didn't think the game would last that long, if you look at the NP5 result, that's a load of crap too. It would have been true if he ever received it, but completely useless. Poor Josh, never getting a break. :)
trekie
Posts: 772
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4/23/2014 4:46:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 8:37:11 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 4/22/2014 8:35:30 PM, Yraelz wrote:
Also lololol, I lied so hardcore the last two DPs. The mafia couldn't hammer me on DP4 because then they'd die to my bomb. This would also reveal that Yay was fake. In reality anyone could still be mafia, but creating the false dichotomy simplified my lynch case. =D
DAMMIT!!!
I was even going to call you bluff DP5.
I KNEW there wasn't a bomb, or at least Super Saint bomb!!!
I was right about that.
No, Yraelz was Bomb all the way. What he means here is that his argument for Ford and Skep being in the clear by not hammering him on DP4 when they had the chance was BS. Since even if one of them was Yay's partner they couldn't have hammered him for the win because that would have killed them and still exposed Yay, resulting in an almost certain mafia loss.
Josh_b
Posts: 1,119
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4/23/2014 8:56:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm glad I was killed early. No one would have believed me if I kept Dropping those sort of bombs.

Heck day one I said there was a TP and half the people were like {gasp!}. No way, Sherlok
Imagine how I would have felt if I found out there were 3 mafia and tried to prove my role based on that.
I don't know maybe knowing the names of the roles could have helped if I hadn't been running my mouth about how I thought that fake claim was spot on.
Scrutiny Welcome

AMAA http://www.debate.org...
Yraelz
Posts: 4,056
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4/23/2014 9:01:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/23/2014 4:46:09 AM, trekie wrote:
At 4/22/2014 8:37:11 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 4/22/2014 8:35:30 PM, Yraelz wrote:
Also lololol, I lied so hardcore the last two DPs. The mafia couldn't hammer me on DP4 because then they'd die to my bomb. This would also reveal that Yay was fake. In reality anyone could still be mafia, but creating the false dichotomy simplified my lynch case. =D
DAMMIT!!!
I was even going to call you bluff DP5.
I KNEW there wasn't a bomb, or at least Super Saint bomb!!!
I was right about that.
No, Yraelz was Bomb all the way. What he means here is that his argument for Ford and Skep being in the clear by not hammering him on DP4 when they had the chance was BS. Since even if one of them was Yay's partner they couldn't have hammered him for the win because that would have killed them and still exposed Yay, resulting in an almost certain mafia loss.

Yeah, the real argument should have been, "after seeing my claim the mafia would almost certainly vote on me immediately. This would avoid them being the hammer (i.e Khaos)."

At that point I was more concerned with uniting the town so I simplified the situation to completely remove skeps and Ford from suspicion. If skeps had called me on that I probably would have humbly converted it into the argument above. If Khaos had called me on it I probably would have lost.
Josh_b
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4/23/2014 9:38:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/23/2014 3:23:44 AM, trekie wrote:
At 4/23/2014 3:14:05 AM, XLAV wrote:
What info would he recieved on NP6?
"Don't trust anyone, they could be scum!" But seriously, I didn't think the game would last that long, if you look at the NP5 result, that's a load of crap too. It would have been true if he ever received it, but completely useless. Poor Josh, never getting a break. :)

This is totally true. I know better than to think that someone else is Town without proof. Yet, as many people as I've voted, I've been voted for it myself.
It was an expected suicide lynch. I did it to myself.
Scrutiny Welcome

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trekie
Posts: 772
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4/23/2014 10:14:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/23/2014 8:56:41 AM, Josh_b wrote:
I'm glad I was killed early. No one would have believed me if I kept Dropping those sort of bombs.
Your role was intended to be something that mafia could potentionally make up, and thus be a mislynch target. Not all of your results would have been completely useless though, the character one being a sort of example.

I don't know maybe knowing the names of the roles could have helped if I hadn't been running my mouth about how I thought that fake claim was spot on.
Well, the character names that were actually in the game from the list were Lucky's and Zaradi's. So if everything else except your lynch happened the same way, they both would have been conveniently dead by the time you got that result. (Which is a complete coincidence by the way!) So no, I don't think it would have been a great help in proving your innocence.

At 4/23/2014 9:38:41 AM, Josh_b wrote:
It was an expected suicide lynch. I did it to myself.
Well, it certainly wasn't an out of the blue reaction on Town's part, but they were a bit hasty about it. If it's any consolation, I thought your continued insistence of Zaradi's innocence even after he was already lynched was more of a town-tell than anything else. Just compare it to Khaos's twilight posts about Yay on DP4.

At 4/23/2014 9:01:37 AM, Yraelz wrote:
Yeah, the real argument should have been, "after seeing my claim the mafia would almost certainly vote on me immediately. This would avoid them being the hammer (i.e Khaos)."

At that point I was more concerned with uniting the town so I simplified the situation to completely remove skeps and Ford from suspicion. If skeps had called me on that I probably would have humbly converted it into the argument above. If Khaos had called me on it I probably would have lost.
To be honest, I didn't even realize your argument was faulty until you pointed it out, but I think that's mostly due to my bias in knowing that Khaos was infact the scum. And you are right, I think it helped to unite and focus the Town on DP5.

You had a really awful tangent on DP4 though, about Yay being fake-cop because he supposedly chose to investigate you over Skep. What town cop in their right mind would choose to investigate the claimed Miller, even if they thought he was scum and just fake-claiming? That's complete nonsene. I was surprised that neither Khaos nor Yay tried to refute that point. Granted it woudn't have mattered in the grand scheme of things since you had like a hundred other solid reasons why Yay was fake-cop, but still, it would have worth a try in order to discredit you.
Khaos_Mage
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4/23/2014 12:20:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/23/2014 10:14:40 AM, trekie wrote:
At that point I was more concerned with uniting the town so I simplified the situation to completely remove skeps and Ford from suspicion. If skeps had called me on that I probably would have humbly converted it into the argument above. If Khaos had called me on it I probably would have lost.
To be honest, I didn't even realize your argument was faulty until you pointed it out, but I think that's mostly due to my bias in knowing that Khaos was infact the scum. And you are right, I think it helped to unite and focus the Town on DP5.

I didn't really care, since it would have been too difficult to reverse my town reads on them, so it didn't really matter. Besides, my contention is that Yraelz and Yay (the remaining scum) already had their votes cast, so it was addressed in a way.

You had a really awful tangent on DP4 though, about Yay being fake-cop because he supposedly chose to investigate you over Skep. What town cop in their right mind would choose to investigate the claimed Miller, even if they thought he was scum and just fake-claiming? That's complete nonsene. I was surprised that neither Khaos nor Yay tried to refute that point. Granted it woudn't have mattered in the grand scheme of things since you had like a hundred other solid reasons why Yay was fake-cop, but still, it would have worth a try in order to discredit you.

I noticed that, but Yraelz was overpowering me with words, and I couldn't keep up, neither in number, quality, or time.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
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4/23/2014 12:25:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/23/2014 9:01:37 AM, Yraelz wrote:
At 4/23/2014 4:46:09 AM, trekie wrote:
At 4/22/2014 8:37:11 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 4/22/2014 8:35:30 PM, Yraelz wrote:
Also lololol, I lied so hardcore the last two DPs. The mafia couldn't hammer me on DP4 because then they'd die to my bomb. This would also reveal that Yay was fake. In reality anyone could still be mafia, but creating the false dichotomy simplified my lynch case. =D
DAMMIT!!!
I was even going to call you bluff DP5.
I KNEW there wasn't a bomb, or at least Super Saint bomb!!!
I was right about that.
No, Yraelz was Bomb all the way. What he means here is that his argument for Ford and Skep being in the clear by not hammering him on DP4 when they had the chance was BS. Since even if one of them was Yay's partner they couldn't have hammered him for the win because that would have killed them and still exposed Yay, resulting in an almost certain mafia loss.

Yeah, the real argument should have been, "after seeing my claim the mafia would almost certainly vote on me immediately. This would avoid them being the hammer (i.e Khaos)."
I did say that you and Yay were mafia, and your votes were already cast. Or I meant to. Or tried to.
That did address that possibility, did it not?

At that point I was more concerned with uniting the town so I simplified the situation to completely remove skeps and Ford from suspicion. If skeps had called me on that I probably would have humbly converted it into the argument above. If Khaos had called me on it I probably would have lost.

I didn't have a problem with the town being united, since I needed them to lynch you.
I thought the noobs would have gone with the gambit.
Look at Lannan's game, and how they blindly followed a cop in the exact same stage in the game. Why didn't it work with us?!?
They were supposed to lynch you quickly :(
My work here is, finally, done.
XLAV
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4/23/2014 12:25:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/23/2014 12:20:28 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 4/23/2014 10:14:40 AM, trekie wrote:
At that point I was more concerned with uniting the town so I simplified the situation to completely remove skeps and Ford from suspicion. If skeps had called me on that I probably would have humbly converted it into the argument above. If Khaos had called me on it I probably would have lost.
To be honest, I didn't even realize your argument was faulty until you pointed it out, but I think that's mostly due to my bias in knowing that Khaos was infact the scum. And you are right, I think it helped to unite and focus the Town on DP5.

I didn't really care, since it would have been too difficult to reverse my town reads on them, so it didn't really matter. Besides, my contention is that Yraelz and Yay (the remaining scum) already had their votes cast, so it was addressed in a way.

You had a really awful tangent on DP4 though, about Yay being fake-cop because he supposedly chose to investigate you over Skep. What town cop in their right mind would choose to investigate the claimed Miller, even if they thought he was scum and just fake-claiming? That's complete nonsene. I was surprised that neither Khaos nor Yay tried to refute that point. Granted it woudn't have mattered in the grand scheme of things since you had like a hundred other solid reasons why Yay was fake-cop, but still, it would have worth a try in order to discredit you.

I noticed that, but Yraelz was overpowering me with words, and I couldn't keep up, neither in number, quality, or time.
Why did the mafia NK TN and not me or maybe even Skep?
Khaos_Mage
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4/23/2014 12:28:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/23/2014 12:25:31 PM, XLAV wrote:

Why did the mafia NK TN and not me or maybe even Skep?

You and TN were the only active roles, and you were not a threat while Yay (who was going to die) was alive.
You were going to be dead either way before I needed to kill anyone.

Skep was no threat, you were.
My work here is, finally, done.
Yraelz
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4/23/2014 2:49:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/23/2014 10:14:40 AM, trekie wrote:
You had a really awful tangent on DP4 though, about Yay being fake-cop because he supposedly chose to investigate you over Skep. What town cop in their right mind would choose to investigate the claimed Miller, even if they thought he was scum and just fake-claiming? That's complete nonsene. I was surprised that neither Khaos nor Yay tried to refute that point. Granted it woudn't have mattered in the grand scheme of things since you had like a hundred other solid reasons why Yay was fake-cop, but still, it would have worth a try in order to discredit you.

Lmao, good call. I have a bad habit of analyzing actions completely separate of role.
Yraelz
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4/23/2014 2:51:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/23/2014 12:20:28 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 4/23/2014 10:14:40 AM, trekie wrote:
At that point I was more concerned with uniting the town so I simplified the situation to completely remove skeps and Ford from suspicion. If skeps had called me on that I probably would have humbly converted it into the argument above. If Khaos had called me on it I probably would have lost.
To be honest, I didn't even realize your argument was faulty until you pointed it out, but I think that's mostly due to my bias in knowing that Khaos was infact the scum. And you are right, I think it helped to unite and focus the Town on DP5.

I didn't really care, since it would have been too difficult to reverse my town reads on them, so it didn't really matter. Besides, my contention is that Yraelz and Yay (the remaining scum) already had their votes cast, so it was addressed in a way.

Naw, you would have pointed it out to demonstrate that I was buddying Skeps and Ford using unsubstantiated logic. That would have been my mislynch ticket anyways. Which was true, I was buddying them both using unsubstantiated reasoning. lol

You had a really awful tangent on DP4 though, about Yay being fake-cop because he supposedly chose to investigate you over Skep. What town cop in their right mind would choose to investigate the claimed Miller, even if they thought he was scum and just fake-claiming? That's complete nonsene. I was surprised that neither Khaos nor Yay tried to refute that point. Granted it woudn't have mattered in the grand scheme of things since you had like a hundred other solid reasons why Yay was fake-cop, but still, it would have worth a try in order to discredit you.

I noticed that, but Yraelz was overpowering me with words, and I couldn't keep up, neither in number, quality, or time.

Haha, you should have pointed this one out. It was a killer counter argument to what was originally one of my big points. It probably wouldn't have mattered in the long run though. Going back and finding Yay's posts on either side of "investigating Lucky" was pretty damning for him.
Yraelz
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4/23/2014 2:57:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/23/2014 12:25:08 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I did say that you and Yay were mafia, and your votes were already cast. Or I meant to. Or tried to.
That did address that possibility, did it not?

Naw, because my vote was on Yay, which doesn't interact with my own bomb claim. The argument is this:
1. The mafia in their quick kill to win cop gambit chose me as a target.
2. Before choosing me they did not know I was bomb, so it didn't matter if one of them hammerred.
3. After learning that I was bomb the mafia would instantly put their votes on me, because they can no longer risk being the hammerer.

I didn't have a problem with the town being united, since I needed them to lynch you.

I meant "united with me", hence the extreme buddying.

I thought the noobs would have gone with the gambit.

The word "MYLO" is scary haha. Also I think your gambit came after two quick mislynches of townies. The town was more inclined to give this lynch some thought after throwing away a huge lead.

Look at Lannan's game, and how they blindly followed a cop in the exact same stage in the game. Why didn't it work with us?!?

You chose me, of course I would type a novel.

They were supposed to lynch you quickly :(

=)
Yraelz
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4/23/2014 2:58:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/23/2014 12:28:31 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 4/23/2014 12:25:31 PM, XLAV wrote:

Why did the mafia NK TN and not me or maybe even Skep?

You and TN were the only active roles, and you were not a threat while Yay (who was going to die) was alive.
You were going to be dead either way before I needed to kill anyone.

Skep was no threat, you were.

Yeah, smart move on the night action waive Khaos.
Khaos_Mage
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4/23/2014 6:17:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/23/2014 2:58:50 PM, Yraelz wrote:
At 4/23/2014 12:28:31 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 4/23/2014 12:25:31 PM, XLAV wrote:

Why did the mafia NK TN and not me or maybe even Skep?

You and TN were the only active roles, and you were not a threat while Yay (who was going to die) was alive.
You were going to be dead either way before I needed to kill anyone.

Skep was no threat, you were.

Yeah, smart move on the night action waive Khaos.

Sarcasm?
Regardless, I didn't need to watch anyone.
I knew NP1 that XLAV was tracker. (realized it NP3, but still)
No reason not to believe everyone else, so there was no need to watch anyone.

It sucked I couldn't claim watcher, though...
My work here is, finally, done.
yay842
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4/23/2014 9:18:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/23/2014 3:08:32 AM, XLAV wrote:
GG.

Lol, fake claiming innocent child is becoming a trend.

you're welcome b*tches
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SolonKR
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4/23/2014 9:24:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
@trekie: Who was the mafia's original target before they settled on me that NP? You had said that it was unfortunate that I alluded to being a power role because whoever it was they originally intended to kill would have been better for town. I presume Yraelz, yes?
SO to Bailey, the love of my life <3
yay842
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4/23/2014 9:31:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
i was gonna go with im unlynchable confirmed townie because mafia role OP if unlynchable times infinity but Khaos wanted me to claim cop.
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trekie
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4/24/2014 1:51:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/23/2014 9:24:57 PM, SolonKR wrote:
@trekie: Who was the mafia's original target before they settled on me that NP? You had said that it was unfortunate that I alluded to being a power role because whoever it was they originally intended to kill would have been better for town. I presume Yraelz, yes?
No, they were considering Ford, the bulletproof. At the time, I was sure mafia was going to win, so I thought a failed kill+proof of the bulletproof's existance would have been more favourable for town. But in retrospect maybe your death was for the better. A vanilla claim might have ended up causing more suspicion later on.

Anyway, I'm glad you brought this up, because I completely forgot to mention in my analysis how much I loved your fake soft-claim, it totally worked with this particular theme. You have really perfected the art of fake claiming a PR as a Vanilla.
trekie
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4/24/2014 2:14:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/23/2014 9:31:36 PM, yay842 wrote:
i was gonna go with im unlynchable confirmed townie because mafia role OP if unlynchable times infinity but Khaos wanted me to claim cop.
You had some good ideas in the PM, but you should have tried to discuss them more with Khaos. I thought sugessting to kill Yraelz on NP4 was one of them. His bomb was delayed by a phase, and his role would have been partially janitored which might have confused Town, so your inevitable lynch on DP5 would have still eaten up a dayphase with the Bomb having no effect, since I can't kill you twice.

Basically, you should have tried to press or explain your ideas more, it's not like Khaos was strongarming you into anything. He just said what he thought was best and you went with it.
ford_prefect
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4/24/2014 11:55:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
For the record, obviously the reason I didn't believe yay instantly is that we were at MYLO, so losing the game was a real possibility.

But also, I would have been way more likely to believe him if he had given all his fake results to begin with. Simply saying "I copped Yraelz last night and he is guilty" is way more scummy than saying "here's a list of people I've copped so far, and the results." Basically making me ask him to reveal his other results raised a red flag right off the bat and made me suspect a trap. A town cop would fear being nk'd immediately after claiming, so they would be eager to reveal all their info to the town before they died.
Yraelz
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4/24/2014 1:55:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/23/2014 7:42:38 AM, trekie wrote:
The Mafia PM, if anybody is interested:
http://goo.gl...

Oh my god. Reading this was awesome. Trekie you called me a smug gloater, you're contractually obligated to join my game now. =)

@Khaos - I noticed near the end of the mafia PM that you mentioned you hadn't read my arguments (shortly before referring to me as a loudmouth -_-). Realizing you were busy, I think your mafia strategy probably needs to be a little more pro town. Some scum players think that there isn't a reason to read all of the "town analysis"; in reality though you're often not just competing with the town. You should spend as much time reading the game as townie players because there's also the very real possibility that 3rd parties steal the game from you.

In this game my original town reads were Skeps, Ford, and you. If you have been even like half-townie in DP4 I probably would have supported your innocence until the end.

I originally read you as townie because you posted that you had limited time and then followed it up later with a post about how you had found time one day. That's a very anti "mafia-going-to-lurk" thing to say. But to then jump from your self-admitted low participation into the convictions you displayed in DP4 was out of sync. You, the player with the least amount of time to dedicate to the game, suddenly had all these reasons to lynch me in a situation that, from a non-informed perspective, was not clear at all.

What i'm trying to say is this. As a guy without substantial time to commit I expected to see trepidation from you in DP4. If you had wavered for quite some time between Yay and I before ultimately deciding on me I probably would have picked a different scum mate for Yay. Instead you argued against every single one of my points as if the game depended on the lynch. Although it would appear anti-mafia at first glance, I think the townie Khaos would have hesitantly voted to kill Yay in DP4. If you'd done that I think you would have won the game; I would have continued to support your towniness and probably would have targeted XLAV or TN05/mastery.
Yraelz
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4/24/2014 1:56:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/23/2014 6:17:20 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Sarcasm?

And no, I was sincere. I'm actually a little sad that you and I weren't scum together in this game. I think that would have been fun.
trekie
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4/24/2014 2:34:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/24/2014 1:55:48 PM, Yraelz wrote:
Oh my god. Reading this was awesome. Trekie you called me a smug gloater, you're contractually obligated to join my game now. =)
Yeah, I did. :) About your game, I might check out the anime but I won't make any promises.