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Beginners' Mafia 26.3: DP1

bsh1
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6/22/2014 9:26:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
INTRODUCTION

The essence of DDO Mafia is the themed game. Almost all games on mafia are themed games. A themed game introduces new elements (and sometimes new mechanics) that add complexity and (hopefully) fun to the game.

In addition to an alignment and a role, players are also given characters that fit in with the theme. The roles almost (but not always or necessarily) fit with the character. This can be expressed in a number of ways. For example, if the theme is a TV show or movie, and your character is a cop, officer, or policeman, he might very will have the Mafia role of "Cop" due to the similarity in profession, if not function. Alternatively, if the character isn't such an occupation, but is otherwise good at discerning between good and evil, they might also be a "Cop" due to the similarity in function, if not profession.

Themes are limited only by the imagination. Most have to do with some form of media, such as TV shows, Literature, and Movies. Others are more abstract, like philosophies or politics. Literally anything can be a theme.

As said, themes add new elements to the game, which are summarized as follows:

1. Partial-claiming - Role-claiming can be dangerous for Townies to do, as it helps mafia decide who they need to kill. Instead of role-claiming, you can character claim. While your character may hint at your role, it is still safer than full claiming.

2. Fake-claiming - Mafia normally have to fake claim their roles when forced to claim in theme-less games. In themed games they also have to fake claim characters. Arguably this is more difficult. In role-claiming, they simply have to avoid being counter-claimed. In character claiming, they have to claim a character from the theme, is consistent with their role, and is major enough to be expected (though not all characters in the game will be major).

3. Patterns - Usually, there will be some distinguishing factor between the different factions. Normally this is a good vs. evil type discrimination, but not always. Remember, the Mafia start the game knowing 1/3rd of the role PMs, so have a head start in discerning any patterns and obfuscating Town's ability to also learn it.

4. Mod Psychology - Creating a themed game, including writing PMs, requires more input from the mod. Based on analysis of the game's creation, how the role PMs are written, and any patterns discovered, you can try and determine how the game was constructed in an effort to hunt for scum. However, this is more of an art than a science. Mistakes and deliberately traps created by the mod can hinder such an analysis. Trying to predict the mod's psychology is a double edged sword.

In this game, role were assigned randomly, but not randomly generated. In other words, I selected the roles (and tried to balance them) and then randomly assigned each player one of the roles I had pre-selected.

This is the first time I have balanced a game entirely on my own--I hope it works out. This could have TPs, could have flavors, etc. If it was in a prior game, it could be in this one. Also, a complete list of possible roles can be found here: https://docs.google.com...

About the theme: Someone asked me what the capital of South Africa was the other day...and I promptly corrected them, saying that there is no single "capital" of South Africa, but rather there are three. Pretoria, which is the executive seat; Cape Town, which is the legislative seat; and Bloemfontein, which is the judicial seat. It got me thinking about the capitals of states, countries, supranational groups, etc...because I am a total nerd. Why not make a capitals-themed mafia? Here goes nothing!
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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6/22/2014 9:28:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
LIVING PLAYERS

Number
Oro
Angel
SJ
XLAV
Raymond
Chosen
Blade
Wylted
Bossy

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.
The DP ends at 9:00pm, DDO time, on 6/24/14.


Good luck!
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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ChosenWolff
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6/22/2014 9:31:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
My role was a paragraph long, so it's reasonable to assume your guy's were as well. I think we should all soft claim
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
bsh1
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6/22/2014 9:33:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
ATTENTION

Oro is replacing in for Esocial. And, before anyone asks, roles were randomly assigned, but not randomly generated. I selected the roles and, as always, did my best to balance the game. I hope everyone enjoys it :)
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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6/22/2014 9:38:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Word of Advice:
The role PM is likely more complex than the last ones.

It might be this:
Khaos - You are St. Paul. Given your location in the Midwest, with numerous landscapes and seasons, there is plenty of means of camouflage. Given this, you are the ninja.

On any night where you perform the mafia NK, you will not be seen (i.e. immune to watcher and tracker). You win with the mafia.

Khaos = Player
St. Paul = Character
Ninja = Role
Mafia = affiliation
Justification = camouflage and whatnot.

Always make sure to paraphrase your justification.
Learn these terms. Use them for pressured claims.
Analyze how roles fit together, or characters fit with roles, or characters fit with others.
My work here is, finally, done.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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6/22/2014 9:39:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/22/2014 9:31:39 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
My role was a paragraph long, so it's reasonable to assume your guy's were as well. I think we should all soft claim

Then do it.
Khaos_Mage
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6/22/2014 10:15:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Analyzing theme:

So, there is obviously mafia and town, and they have characters. Now, mafia usually don't claim their real roles, so, theme analysis can be used to try to find fake claims.

For example, using capitals, perhaps all townies are in industrialized countries, or are communist. So, once the theme is established, through town and scum deaths, town can scrutinize the remaining claims.
My work here is, finally, done.
Oromagi
Posts: 857
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6/22/2014 10:41:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/22/2014 9:31:39 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
My role was a paragraph long, so it's reasonable to assume your guy's were as well. I think we should all soft claim

I have a different suggestion:

Nobody soft claim until everybody lists the first and last letter of their CHARACTER only and the number of letters in their CHARACTER name. If we do this before the theme is apparent, SCUM will have a much more difficult time inventing a CHARACTER that matches theme and fits their first description.
ChosenWolff
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6/22/2014 10:43:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/22/2014 10:41:50 PM, Oromagi wrote:
At 6/22/2014 9:31:39 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
My role was a paragraph long, so it's reasonable to assume your guy's were as well. I think we should all soft claim

I have a different suggestion:

Nobody soft claim until everybody lists the first and last letter of their CHARACTER only and the number of letters in their CHARACTER name. If we do this before the theme is apparent, SCUM will have a much more difficult time inventing a CHARACTER that matches theme and fits their first description.

WC, I really am having trouble understanding this strategy
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
Oromagi
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6/22/2014 10:47:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/22/2014 10:43:34 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 6/22/2014 10:41:50 PM, Oromagi wrote:
At 6/22/2014 9:31:39 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
My role was a paragraph long, so it's reasonable to assume your guy's were as well. I think we should all soft claim

I have a different suggestion:

Nobody soft claim until everybody lists the first and last letter of their CHARACTER only and the number of letters in their CHARACTER name. If we do this before the theme is apparent, SCUM will have a much more difficult time inventing a CHARACTER that matches theme and fits their first description.

WC, I really am having trouble understanding this strategy

Nothing to understand, really.

If your CHARACTER was, say DARTH VADER, you would say that your character starts with D, ends with R and has 10 letters. Wait for everybody to confirm, if one or two refuse we have candidates for lynching. If we force scum to commit to these three characteristics BEFORE the theme is apparent, it will be way, way more difficult for scum to fake a claim that matches the theme and matches the characteristics they've committed.

get it?
ChosenWolff
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6/22/2014 10:48:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/22/2014 10:47:33 PM, Oromagi wrote:
At 6/22/2014 10:43:34 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 6/22/2014 10:41:50 PM, Oromagi wrote:
At 6/22/2014 9:31:39 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
My role was a paragraph long, so it's reasonable to assume your guy's were as well. I think we should all soft claim

I have a different suggestion:

Nobody soft claim until everybody lists the first and last letter of their CHARACTER only and the number of letters in their CHARACTER name. If we do this before the theme is apparent, SCUM will have a much more difficult time inventing a CHARACTER that matches theme and fits their first description.

WC, I really am having trouble understanding this strategy

Nothing to understand, really.

If your CHARACTER was, say DARTH VADER, you would say that your character starts with D, ends with R and has 10 letters. Wait for everybody to confirm, if one or two refuse we have candidates for lynching. If we force scum to commit to these three characteristics BEFORE the theme is apparent, it will be way, way more difficult for scum to fake a claim that matches the theme and matches the characteristics they've committed.

get it?

Yeah, but I don't really like it. I'm just going to soft claim
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
Oromagi
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6/22/2014 10:49:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago

Yeah, but I don't really like it. I'm just going to soft claim

Explain why you don't like it, please
ChosenWolff
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6/22/2014 10:51:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/22/2014 10:49:53 PM, Oromagi wrote:

Yeah, but I don't really like it. I'm just going to soft claim

Explain why you don't like it, please

It is to complicated and it really isn't that helpful in detecting scum. It doesn't warrant the effort, and as always, scum will just dodge claiming.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
ChosenWolff
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6/22/2014 10:51:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I really am confident that soft claiming is the best option. I am Washington DC. I am filled with sleazy politicians

That's as far as I will go before I end up revealing my power. I know the end makes me sound like scum, but my power explains it quite well.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
numberwang
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6/22/2014 10:51:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/22/2014 10:41:50 PM, Oromagi wrote:
At 6/22/2014 9:31:39 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
My role was a paragraph long, so it's reasonable to assume your guy's were as well. I think we should all soft claim

I have a different suggestion:

Nobody soft claim until everybody lists the first and last letter of their CHARACTER only and the number of letters in their CHARACTER name. If we do this before the theme is apparent, SCUM will have a much more difficult time inventing a CHARACTER that matches theme and fits their first description.

That is a good idea if we assume that the scum don't have fake claims.

How experienced are you the way? I'm going to assume very.
Oromagi
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6/22/2014 10:53:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago

That is a good idea if we assume that the scum don't have fake claims.

I'm glad you like it, that makes me think you are town.


How experienced are you the way? I'm going to assume very.

This is my ninth game. Every game has been played as part of bsh's beginner's mafia series.
numberwang
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6/22/2014 10:54:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I think in theme games, soft claims to help find the theme are very important.

However, if we have learned anything from the last two games, it is this.

POWERFUL TOWN ROLES DON'T CLAIM EARLY DP1

Town keeps screwing itself by giving away it's good roles early before they manage to do anything for town, and the town keeps losing for it. Hopefully the really nooby people don't have any powerful roles, but if you do have a powerful role, DON'T REVEAL IT EARLY. I don't want us making that mistake again.
ChosenWolff
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6/22/2014 10:58:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/22/2014 10:54:32 PM, numberwang wrote:
I think in theme games, soft claims to help find the theme are very important.

Would you mind soft claiming? I don't mean to come off straightforward, but given our last two games, it appears that you have been quite good at keeping your role hidden, which screwed us over twice.

In the interest of trust, I think it would make all of us feel more secure if you soft claimed. As of right now, without claiming ,you are pretty threatening to town.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
Oromagi
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6/22/2014 10:58:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/22/2014 10:54:32 PM, numberwang wrote:

POWERFUL TOWN ROLES DON'T CLAIM EARLY DP1

Town keeps screwing itself by giving away it's good roles early before they manage to do anything for town, and the town keeps losing for it. Hopefully the really nooby people don't have any powerful roles, but if you do have a powerful role, DON'T REVEAL IT EARLY. I don't want us making that mistake again.

I kept up on the first two games of this series and I'd have to agree.
numberwang
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6/22/2014 11:00:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/22/2014 10:51:21 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
I really am confident that soft claiming is the best option. I am Washington DC. I am filled with sleazy politicians

That's as far as I will go before I end up revealing my power. I know the end makes me sound like scum, but my power explains it quite well.

Okay kid, you really need to learn what a soft claim is and what a full claim is. You have now full claimed a character.

If you were soft claiming a character, you'd say something like "I'm a US city" or maybe "A Tesla place" or something like that. You came out and said exactly what you are. That is not soft claiming, that is full claiming. Soft is not specific. Soft makes people guess. Soft is not that.

You have now screwed this up more than once. You really need to learn from things you screw up on.

Do not "soft claim" your role, please. We are not full claiming, we are soft claiming. There is a big difference. Learn it. Live it. Love it.
numberwang
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6/22/2014 11:01:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/22/2014 10:58:23 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 6/22/2014 10:54:32 PM, numberwang wrote:
I think in theme games, soft claims to help find the theme are very important.

Would you mind soft claiming? I don't mean to come off straightforward, but given our last two games, it appears that you have been quite good at keeping your role hidden, which screwed us over twice.

In the interest of trust, I think it would make all of us feel more secure if you soft claimed. As of right now, without claiming ,you are pretty threatening to town.

Do you understand what you are asking me? Do you want me to SOFT CLAIM? Or are you asking me to FULL CLAIM, like you just did?

You don't seem to understand the difference, you seem to be unable to learn the difference.
Oromagi
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6/22/2014 11:03:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Would you mind soft claiming? I don't mean to come off straightforward, but given our last two games, it appears that you have been quite good at keeping your role hidden, which screwed us over twice.

In the interest of trust, I think it would make all of us feel more secure if you soft claimed. As of right now, without claiming ,you are pretty threatening to town.

Number- 60% town. Willing to participate in plan to trap scum

Oro- 100% town. pre-soft claim: Six letters/Begins with B/ends with N

Chosen- 80% scum. WASHINGTON DC Unwilling to participate in plan to trap scum.
Gameplay in first two rounds suggests that Chosen is a total wildcard and not that useful to town.

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.
The DP ends at 9:00pm, DDO time, on 6/24/14.
numberwang
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6/22/2014 11:04:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/22/2014 10:58:23 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 6/22/2014 10:54:32 PM, numberwang wrote:
I think in theme games, soft claims to help find the theme are very important.


In the interest of trust, I think it would make all of us feel more secure if you soft claimed. As of right now, without claiming ,you are pretty threatening to town.

And how am I more threatening than anyone else? The roles and affiliations are completely random. I am just as likely to be scum as you are. The past two games shouldn't factor into how this game is played at all, except when looking at the meta of the players involved.

Saying that I am more likely to be a threat to town because I was scum in the last two games is negative metagaming. You are taking information from other, unrelated games and using it in this game in a way that you should not. You can use my meta against me, you cannot use my roles. I didn't pick them, I just played them.
Oromagi
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6/22/2014 11:05:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago

You don't seem to understand the difference, you seem to be unable to learn the difference.

*nods in agreement*

yeah, man
numberwang
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6/22/2014 11:07:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/22/2014 11:03:03 PM, Oromagi wrote:
Would you mind soft claiming? I don't mean to come off straightforward, but given our last two games, it appears that you have been quite good at keeping your role hidden, which screwed us over twice.

In the interest of trust, I think it would make all of us feel more secure if you soft claimed. As of right now, without claiming ,you are pretty threatening to town.

Number- 60% town. Willing to participate in plan to trap scum

Oro- 100% town. pre-soft claim: Six letters/Begins with B/ends with N

This claim isn't soft enough. I've already figured out who you are. Unless you want all of us revealing this is actually not a good plan. Just based on what limited info I have from myself and Wolf I can guess we are all capital cities, and from that, with 2 letters, anyone can figure out all of the cities. If we really want soft claims we need a new plan.

Chosen- 80% scum. WASHINGTON DC Unwilling to participate in plan to trap scum.
Gameplay in first two rounds suggests that Chosen is a total wildcard and not that useful to town.

Yep, he has been pretty not very helpful in the last 2 games. His behavior hasn't been too great and it makes it hard to know if he is town or not.

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.
The DP ends at 9:00pm, DDO time, on 6/24/14.
Oromagi
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6/22/2014 11:13:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/22/2014 11:07:13 PM, numberwang wrote:
At 6/22/2014 11:03:03 PM, Oromagi wrote:
Would you mind soft claiming? I don't mean to come off straightforward, but given our last two games, it appears that you have been quite good at keeping your role hidden, which screwed us over twice.

In the interest of trust, I think it would make all of us feel more secure if you soft claimed. As of right now, without claiming ,you are pretty threatening to town.

Number- 60% town. Willing to participate in plan to trap scum

Oro- 100% town. pre-soft claim: Six letters/Begins with B/ends with N

This claim isn't soft enough. I've already figured out who you are. Unless you want all of us revealing this is actually not a good plan. Just based on what limited info I have from myself and Wolf I can guess we are all capital cities, and from that, with 2 letters, anyone can figure out all of the cities. If we really want soft claims we need a new plan.

I don't disagree. We could try just number of letters, or first letter and number of letters, or I'm open to suggestions.

We could link to top ten lists that include our city but only narrow it down to ten cities- "Top 10 city zoos", "10 worst cities for nightclubbing", etc


Chosen- 80% scum. WASHINGTON DC Unwilling to participate in plan to trap scum.
Gameplay in first two rounds suggests that Chosen is a total wildcard and not that useful to town.

Yep, he has been pretty not very helpful in the last 2 games. His behavior hasn't been too great and it makes it hard to know if he is town or not.

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.
The DP ends at 9:00pm, DDO time, on 6/24/14.
numberwang
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6/22/2014 11:14:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/22/2014 11:13:19 PM, Oromagi wrote:
At 6/22/2014 11:07:13 PM, numberwang wrote:
At 6/22/2014 11:03:03 PM, Oromagi wrote:
Would you mind soft claiming? I don't mean to come off straightforward, but given our last two games, it appears that you have been quite good at keeping your role hidden, which screwed us over twice.

In the interest of trust, I think it would make all of us feel more secure if you soft claimed. As of right now, without claiming ,you are pretty threatening to town.

Number- 60% town. Willing to participate in plan to trap scum

Oro- 100% town. pre-soft claim: Six letters/Begins with B/ends with N

This claim isn't soft enough. I've already figured out who you are. Unless you want all of us revealing this is actually not a good plan. Just based on what limited info I have from myself and Wolf I can guess we are all capital cities, and from that, with 2 letters, anyone can figure out all of the cities. If we really want soft claims we need a new plan.

I don't disagree. We could try just number of letters, or first letter and number of letters, or I'm open to suggestions.

We could link to top ten lists that include our city but only narrow it down to ten cities- "Top 10 city zoos", "10 worst cities for nightclubbing", etc\

That sounds kind of convoluted, we could just do continents or something, lol. That'd be simple and soft.


Chosen- 80% scum. WASHINGTON DC Unwilling to participate in plan to trap scum.
Gameplay in first two rounds suggests that Chosen is a total wildcard and not that useful to town.

Yep, he has been pretty not very helpful in the last 2 games. His behavior hasn't been too great and it makes it hard to know if he is town or not.

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.
The DP ends at 9:00pm, DDO time, on 6/24/14.
Oromagi
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6/22/2014 11:16:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago

That sounds kind of convoluted, we could just do continents or something, lol. That'd be simple and soft.

That's certainly simple although it might make the theme super obvious



Chosen- 80% scum. WASHINGTON DC Unwilling to participate in plan to trap scum.
Gameplay in first two rounds suggests that Chosen is a total wildcard and not that useful to town.

Yep, he has been pretty not very helpful in the last 2 games. His behavior hasn't been too great and it makes it hard to know if he is town or not.

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.
The DP ends at 9:00pm, DDO time, on 6/24/14.
numberwang
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6/22/2014 11:23:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Okay guys, I am going to college orientation for tomorrow and the day after (woo!). I will be on briefly tomorrow morning and briefly tomorrow night but I will likely miss most of the DP. I'll make it for DP2 for sure but I will miss most of this one, please don't lynch me for it.

Please no one claim roles, especially not any good ones. That never goes well.

Have a good time in my absence friends, see you on the flip side.
numberwang
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6/22/2014 11:25:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/22/2014 11:16:37 PM, Oromagi wrote:

That sounds kind of convoluted, we could just do continents or something, lol. That'd be simple and soft.

That's certainly simple although it might make the theme super obvious

Isn't that what the town wants? To figure out the theme so we hunt down the scums?

It probably won't make it too obvious anyway, and it will certainly be vague enough so our cities will not be easy to discern if that is not what we want.