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Beginners' Mafia 26.3: ENDGAME

bsh1
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6/25/2014 6:30:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Town wins!!

TOWN

Bossy - You are CANBERRA. Capital of Australia, no one really knows that you even exist, except the Australians. It's almost as if, totally forgotten by the world, you're just sitting back watching global events transpire. It seems to me that you are a VOYEUR.
Each night you may select another player. You will learn what action(s) were performed on them, but not who visited. You win with the town.

Chosen - You are WASHINGTON, D.C. Capital of the United States, you are filled with sleazy politicos all searching to find some dirt on their opponents, to find something about them that could give them an advantage in the next big political scuffle. Because of this, you are the FLAVOR COP. Each night you may select a player. You will learn if they have a flavor, and you will also learn whether that flavor deals with when the role can be used, (e.g. X-shot), what results the role gets (e.g. paranoid), whether it affects others (e.g. brutal), or whether it affects if the role can be used (e.g. Naive.) You win with the town.

Oro - You are BERLIN. Capital of Germany, you are a beautiful city rich with history and elegance. Because German leadership, and its level-headed approach kept the EU together through the financial crisis, saving it from utter collapse, you are the DOCTOR. Each night you may select one player and protect them from all lethal actions. You win with the town.

Number - You are BEIJING. Capital of China, your explosive economy has enabled thousands to improve their lives an attain wealth. Consequently, you are the ENABLER. Each night you may select a player. If they are secretly disabled, you will permanently enable them (allow them to use their abilities.) You win with the town.

Angel - You are BRUSSELS. Capital of Belgium and Headquarters of the EU, you are both a national hub and a supranational institutions' seat. Caught between the two competing worlds--national and global--you are confused as to your allegiance. Therefore, you are the TURNCOAT. When night-killed by the mafia for the first time, you will instead survive and change your affiliation to win with the Mafia. You will not join in the Mafia PM. You win with the town.

Wylted - You are DAMASCUS. Capital of Syria, you've gone to hell in a handbasket. Therefore, you are the MEGABOMB. If NK'd, you will kill anyone who visited you that night. You win with the town.

[Hidden Mod Note: Disabled. You cannot use your role until Enabled.]


XLAV - You are MOSCOW. Capital of Russia, you are the seat of one of the permanent members of the Security Council. Because Putin often uses his veto power to stymie the West, particularly when it comes to military interventions, you are the 1-shot GOVERNOR. Once per game you can choose to stop a lynch and end the DP early. You may choose to end a lynch at L-1, or within 15 minutes of a lynch going through. You may also submit one name in advance of someone who, if about to be lynched, you would want Governored. You win with the town.

SJ - You are ABU DHABI. Capital of the United Arab Emirates, you track fashion trends worldwide, and spent extravagant sums to bring those ideas and designs to life in your city, in what has become a marvel of modern style and elegance. Thus, you are the TRACKER. Each night you may select a player. You will learn who they visit. You win with the town.

[Hidden Mod Note: Disabled. You cannot use your role until Enabled.]

MAFIA

Raymond - You are THE HAGUE. Headquarters of the ICC, you are the setting for the prosecution of some of the worlds most repulsive human beings. Because these criminals are often hard to apprehend, and sometimes surprisingly hard to convict, prosecutors have to be wily, cunning, and surefooted in their endeavors, in order to secure convictions. Therefore you are the 1-shot NINJA. If you carry out the NK, you cannot be tracked or overlooked whilst doing the evil deed.

Blade - You are NEW YORK CITY. Headquarters of the UN, you are the seat of a world-governing body, captain of the new, global society of nations. Therefore, you are the 2-shot CAPTAIN. You are assigned to the VOYEUR and the DOCTOR. Twice this game you may choose an action and a target for each of the players you are assigned to. Players for whom you choose an action and a target may either obey, performing that action on the target; or disobey, doing nothing. Players for whom you don't choose are able to act freely.

NIGHT ACTIONS


Chosen - Flcp. Blade
Number - Enb. Chosen
Oro - Doc. No One
Bossy - Voy. Chosen
Blade - Cpt. Doc to Chosen; Voy. To Chosen
Blade - NK XLAV

MOD COMMENTS

I thought the theme was fairly obvious. The overarching theme was "Capitals." Both town and mafia were capital cities in the sense that town was composed of headquarters for national governments (specifically, the Official Capital of their respective nations), whereas mafia was composed of cities that were the headquarters for supranational organizations, but were not national capitals. So, to distill this simply: National Capitals vs. Supranational Organizational Capitals. Really, this had nothing to do with the UN specifically...

Anyway, mafia destroyed themselves. They should have taken time to deduce the theme, and created fake claims to match. I cannot fathom why mafia claimed their actual cities instead of making a fake claim--it's the height of irresponsibility for scum. After Chosen, Number, and Oro claimed, it should have been obvious that the pattern among townies was that they were all national capitals. Thus, Blade's choice to claim New York was silly. After people started to FOS Blade, and after more people claimed national capitals, Raymond should have claimed Amsterdam instead of The Hague, which he considered. I think he chose The Hague to deflect suspicion from Blade--but that's foolish. Instead of deflecting suspicion from Blade, he outted the whole scum team; Blade should have been bused.

Ultimately, if mafia had taken the time to analyze the theme and try to blend in, there was no reason they couldn't have won. It was their own unwillingness to do this that caused them to implode in the end.

Furthermore, XLAV nearly derailed town. His aggressive playstyle nearly caused Oro to side with scum at one point. XLAV needs to be more of a team player, and needs to justify and explain himself more, while being less aggressive and more cooperative. This same advice can be extended to Chosen as well.

Town could also have been helped if townies had been more active, but whatevs...Town didn't win this game, so much as mafia lost it.
Live Long and Prosper

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numberwang
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6/25/2014 6:39:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Xlav did better than usual. His thorough case of Ray and his critical suggestion that Ray meant to post what he posted in a mafia PM flipped me voting Ray. He was better than he usually is as a townie, he never makes cases like that.

Why only 2 scums? That seems a tad unbalanced.

Really poor choice not to fake claim, thanks guys! :D
bsh1
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6/25/2014 6:43:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/25/2014 6:39:15 PM, numberwang wrote:
Xlav did better than usual. His thorough case of Ray and his critical suggestion that Ray meant to post what he posted in a mafia PM flipped me voting Ray. He was better than he usually is as a townie, he never makes cases like that.

Better is still not good. Is case against Ray was fabulous, but prior to...and even to an extent after that...he was evasive, demanding, and too self-assured.

Why only 2 scums? That seems a tad unbalanced.

Read Angel's role PM.

Really poor choice not to fake claim, thanks guys! :D
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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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bsh1
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6/25/2014 6:43:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Also...last chance to vote in the HOF: http://www.debate.org... If you want to vote, do so fairly and conscientiously.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bladerunner060
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6/25/2014 6:48:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I do think that Raymond's mispost was fairly catastrophic--the game was over at that point and I seriously suggested we just end things.

Overall, except at the end there, I'd like to compliment Chosen for changing his playstyle after the first two games. I will say that a more thorough reading of previous DPs prior to making claims about what was said would be good--I DID say that I had a limited number of uses of my role in Post #105: http://www.debate.org.... When you make accusations that are easily falsified, you only help make yourself look scummy.

Number: You focus WAY too much on meta for way too little reason, though you did happen to be correct in these instances. Chosen's meta in 26.2 wasn't established. My meta in 26.3 had only 3 games for you to pick from, 1 in which I was town-inactive, 1 in which I was town-active, and 1 in which I was scum-inactive. That's nowhere near enough to assert that I've got a scum tell of inactivity, and I would like to note in all honesty that all my reasons were true, though I suppose ya'll might still think I'm lying.

What I AM bad about (he said, knowing it might hurt future games but also knowing that he probably won't play one for quite awhile) is fake claiming. That's why I was willing to risk outing my city, in hopes that it wasn't as obvious a theme as it first appeared (wasn't it the last beginner series where it was "things bsh1 likes" and there was some ability on scum's part to muddy the waters?). I knew it was a risk, but I was willing to take it in hopes I could help muddy things if it really WAS that simple, by both appearing to have made a stupid gambit I wouldn't have made (if it really was that obvious) and by confirming my role, which, while we all know role confirmation is not affiliation confirmation, can often help give town cred.

I think I steered Raymond wrong, because I initially said the Hague was the capital--Amsterdam is according to the constitution, it's just that the Hague is for all intents and purposes. I corrected, but I suspect the seed of regular claiming was already planted and, as bsh1 noted, he was trying to deflect from me. If I'd been more active I could have caught him in time to tell him that was a BAD IDEA (though, in my defense, his last scum PM was that he was gonna claim Amsterdam if I didn't object...just sayin'!).

All in all, though, I think this was mostly the strongest town play this series. I happen to think Oro was a bit over blustery in the beginning, but at the same time that's a strategy, it's just one I don't like, and it rather worked, so who am I to judge? Those who like that playstyle should probably make note of the manner he did that, as it was better than previous examples of such bluster in this series.

Good job, town! I mean....Curses! Foiled!
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numberwang
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6/25/2014 7:02:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I dont focus that much on meta. I was more into voting you for theme and the meta thing also helped. If youd been more active I would have wanted to vote you for theme anyway. And the only reason I defended chosen's style as town in 26.2 was because it was identical. And I wasnt wrong was I? In either case? Id say I focus on meta just the right amount.
ChosenWolff
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6/25/2014 7:05:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
It's obvious why scum lost. They gave their actual character claim. I am pretty sure that's always a bad idea. Not to mention it's the only reason bladde was lynched in DP2, although it's his fault for making the first character claim.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
Khaos_Mage
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6/25/2014 7:12:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
LOL, them's the bricks mafia.

A valiant effort on Ray for his defense, though.

Mafia was underpowered in this game.
Between megabomb and dreamer, they could only win with converting Angel.
Had Angel been a traitor, that would have been much more interesting....

Keeping in mind that enabler was mod-confirmed upon any of two deaths.
My work here is, finally, done.
bsh1
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6/25/2014 7:19:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/25/2014 7:12:40 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
LOL, them's the bricks mafia.

A valiant effort on Ray for his defense, though.

Mafia was underpowered in this game.
Between megabomb and dreamer, they could only win with converting Angel.

There was no dreamer in this game, Khaos. And the megabomb was disabled. As was the tracker. The doc and the voyeur were under the control of the captain--potentially for a max of 2 NPs. So, that means that town only had the flavor cop, the enabler, the governor, and the turncoat to use freely, as they wished.

Keeping in mind that enabler was mod-confirmed upon any of two deaths.

How so?
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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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Khaos_Mage
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6/25/2014 7:21:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/25/2014 7:19:51 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 6/25/2014 7:12:40 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
LOL, them's the bricks mafia.

A valiant effort on Ray for his defense, though.

Mafia was underpowered in this game.
Between megabomb and dreamer, they could only win with converting Angel.

There was no dreamer in this game, Khaos. And the megabomb was disabled. As was the tracker. The doc and the voyeur were under the control of the captain--potentially for a max of 2 NPs. So, that means that town only had the flavor cop, the enabler, the governor, and the turncoat to use freely, as they wished.

LOL, I suck at reading.
I retract my comments about balance.
My work here is, finally, done.
bsh1
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6/25/2014 7:22:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/25/2014 7:21:03 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/25/2014 7:19:51 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 6/25/2014 7:12:40 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
LOL, them's the bricks mafia.

A valiant effort on Ray for his defense, though.

Mafia was underpowered in this game.
Between megabomb and dreamer, they could only win with converting Angel.

There was no dreamer in this game, Khaos. And the megabomb was disabled. As was the tracker. The doc and the voyeur were under the control of the captain--potentially for a max of 2 NPs. So, that means that town only had the flavor cop, the enabler, the governor, and the turncoat to use freely, as they wished.

LOL, I suck at reading.
I retract my comments about balance.

Thank you.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Khaos_Mage
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6/25/2014 7:22:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/25/2014 7:19:51 PM, bsh1 wrote:

Keeping in mind that enabler was mod-confirmed upon any of two deaths.

How so?

On DP2, I would have wanted the enabler to claim, if for no other reason than to confirm him, assuming the lynch wasn't between inactives due to the slip.

Further, I also would have given Blade the benefit of the doubt as captain, but of the two, enabler makes no sense for mafia.
My work here is, finally, done.
bsh1
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6/25/2014 7:24:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/25/2014 7:22:46 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/25/2014 7:19:51 PM, bsh1 wrote:

Keeping in mind that enabler was mod-confirmed upon any of two deaths.

How so?

On DP2, I would have wanted the enabler to claim, if for no other reason than to confirm him, assuming the lynch wasn't between inactives due to the slip.

Further, I also would have given Blade the benefit of the doubt as captain, but of the two, enabler makes no sense for mafia.

Okay. Make sense.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Khaos_Mage
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6/25/2014 7:24:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Wlyted, that was really gutsy of you.
I am not sure if bossy was very active, but if he was the last mafia, you could have cost town the game.
My work here is, finally, done.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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6/25/2014 9:06:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/25/2014 7:24:10 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Wlyted, that was really gutsy of you.
I am not sure if bossy was very active, but if he was the last mafia, you could have cost town the game.

Thanks, I hate indecisiveness when the path is clear and with24hrs remaining. I thought this was a good play.
Oromagi
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6/25/2014 11:36:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/25/2014 6:30:40 PM, bsh1 wrote:


Furthermore, XLAV nearly derailed town. His aggressive playstyle nearly caused Oro to side with scum at one point.

Well, I'll admit to overplaying that a bit. I had some notion about trying good cop/bad cop with XLAV to see if we could get more out of Ray which turned out to be pretty ineffective.

His mega-read was really the more worrying moment because it seemed like data that could be condensed to a few bullet points. It felt like a blade RFD. Why the spectacle, I wondered? Nevertheless, his effort produced the intended effect (rolling the stone across Ray's sepulcher) so I have no cause for complaint.

I agree with Khaos that Ray's poise and persistence in the face of disaster was admirable.

I worried a bit that SJ got overpressured when she joined. I hope she was not too put off by exploding upon arrival.

Wylted's dreamer did cause me some concern, however. I get the why of playing dreamer but as I said the results were a bit hard to swallow.

I thought Chosen's gameplay on Day2 of DP1 was very good and put the lie to my wildcard remarks.
bossyburrito
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6/25/2014 11:44:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/25/2014 9:06:03 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/25/2014 7:24:10 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Wlyted, that was really gutsy of you.
I am not sure if bossy was very active, but if he was the last mafia, you could have cost town the game.

Thanks, I hate indecisiveness when the path is clear and with24hrs remaining. I thought this was a good play.

First off - sorry for being so inactive this game.

That dreamer claim was absolutely the right play, man. Blade NEEDED to die, and it's always better to kill a mafia straight-away than to let him live for an extra day or so - giving scum time just makes it more likely they could come up with excuses or otherwise undermine the town more. You knew what was up, and you ensured that town won. There's nothing bad about that.
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Oromagi
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6/25/2014 11:51:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/25/2014 6:30:40 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I cannot fathom why mafia claimed their actual cities instead of making a fake claim--it's the height of irresponsibility for scum.

I don't how anybody else felt, but it was the obviousness of the discrepancy that gave reason for pause. Did the obvious discrepancy conceal some alternative division that might explain why blade and ray were so straightforward? I should have expected that a Beginner's series was not likely to be so nuanced, but such is the uncertainty of inexperience.
bsh1
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6/26/2014 12:02:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/25/2014 11:51:40 PM, Oromagi wrote:
At 6/25/2014 6:30:40 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I cannot fathom why mafia claimed their actual cities instead of making a fake claim--it's the height of irresponsibility for scum.

I don't how anybody else felt, but it was the obviousness of the discrepancy that gave reason for pause. Did the obvious discrepancy conceal some alternative division that might explain why blade and ray were so straightforward? I should have expected that a Beginner's series was not likely to be so nuanced, but such is the uncertainty of inexperience.

I mean, I once did a Star Wars themed game that was sequels vs. prequels vs. R2D2 (who was in all 6). Town was composed of the sequel characters, and all of them were protagonists except one. That one was an obvious mislynch target for mafia to pursue. Instead, they defended that person, which led town to stop looking at the superficial stuff and actually scumhunt. Mafia lost.
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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XLAV
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6/26/2014 6:10:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/25/2014 6:30:40 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Furthermore, XLAV nearly derailed town. His aggressive playstyle nearly caused Oro to side with scum at one point. XLAV needs to be more of a team player, and needs to justify and explain himself more, while being less aggressive and more cooperative. This same advice can be extended to Chosen as well.
I am a team player Bsh. I buddied with Wylted didn't I? I did justify and explained myself a lot in this game unlike last game. I lead the lynch on Raymond and I also made a case for him. Scum slip or not, he was still going to get lynched for his behavior and his character claim. I don't understand why you don't like me to be aggressive. If it weren't for my aggressive play this game then Raymond would still be alive.
XLAV
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6/26/2014 6:13:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/25/2014 6:39:15 PM, numberwang wrote:
Xlav did better than usual. His thorough case of Ray and his critical suggestion that Ray meant to post what he posted in a mafia PM flipped me voting Ray. He was better than he usually is as a townie, he never makes cases like that.
My play depends on my mood really. I've done better town stuff before you played with us.
Wylted
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6/26/2014 6:19:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/26/2014 6:10:54 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 6/25/2014 6:30:40 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Furthermore, XLAV nearly derailed town. His aggressive playstyle nearly caused Oro to side with scum at one point. XLAV needs to be more of a team player, and needs to justify and explain himself more, while being less aggressive and more cooperative. This same advice can be extended to Chosen as well.
I am a team player Bsh. I buddied with Wylted didn't I? I did justify and explained myself a lot in this game unlike last game. I lead the lynch on Raymond and I also made a case for him. Scum slip or not, he was still going to get lynched for his behavior and his character claim. I don't understand why you don't like me to be aggressive. If it weren't for my aggressive play this game then Raymond would still be alive.

If something is unorthodox or different it has a tendency to be viewed as incorrect or wrong. I think if you were less aggressive the Raymond lynch might not have happened.
Wylted
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6/26/2014 6:21:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/26/2014 6:19:30 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 6/25/2014 9:06:03 PM, Wylted wrote:
Lol. Nice dreamer gambit.

Thanks, I thought scum was stupid for NKing you. It almost confirms your lynch order when they do that.
XLAV
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6/26/2014 6:25:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Good thing SJ got herself modkilled too. It would have saved us from a mislynch. When she said her reasons for being inactive was the same post Raymond sent in the Announcement PM and when she claimed she hasn't read the DP yet, I figured she was scum.
XLAV
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6/26/2014 6:28:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The reason why I wasn't able to rebut most of Raymond's defense was because I was in school. I can only do quick posts while I'm in school.
Khaos_Mage
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6/26/2014 6:47:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/25/2014 11:44:58 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 6/25/2014 9:06:03 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/25/2014 7:24:10 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Wlyted, that was really gutsy of you.
I am not sure if bossy was very active, but if he was the last mafia, you could have cost town the game.

Thanks, I hate indecisiveness when the path is clear and with24hrs remaining. I thought this was a good play.

First off - sorry for being so inactive this game.

That dreamer claim was absolutely the right play, man. Blade NEEDED to die, and it's always better to kill a mafia straight-away than to let him live for an extra day or so - giving scum time just makes it more likely they could come up with excuses or otherwise undermine the town more. You knew what was up, and you ensured that town won. There's nothing bad about that.

I'm not sure about that.
Captain was confirmed, and there was a cop already.
Ray was talking to an inactive, so it could have been you or AOD as well, maybe more.

The DP could have derailed into a soft CC, between dreamer and flavor cop.
If Wylted were mislynched, not only is the bomb diffused, but at 5:2 (which I would have assumed), you go to MYLO.
I think it was unnecessary in the long run.
My work here is, finally, done.
Smithereens
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6/26/2014 7:09:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Good game, it was an interesting read all throughout, especially as town got closer to their win. I would make the observation that XLAV needs to improve his technique in terms of diplomacy, he obviously simply does not know how to get what he wants in a socially acceptable manner.

congrats to town, and the mod for an excellent beginners series.
Music composition contest: http://www.debate.org...