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Beginners Mafia 27.1: ENDGAME

bsh1
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7/7/2014 11:34:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Mafia wins!! Also, please let this game prove to everyone that these games are not balanced in any way.

MAFIA

Chosen - You are the SCOUT. Each night you may select a player; you will learn who visits them.

Ray - You are the REDIRECTOR. Each night you may select another player and redirect their action to another player of your choice.

Number - You are the ROLE STEALER. Once per game you may select another player, and steal their role. You will permanently become that new role, and your target will be converted into a vanilla.

TOWN

XLAV - You are the DREAMER. Each night you will receive the names of three players, at least one of whom is mafia. You win with the town.

Oro/9space - You are the VIGILIANTE. Each night you may select a player for death. You win with the town.

Ajab - You are now the SIDEKICK. Each night you may select another player. Any nonlethal actions aimed at them will be redirected to you. You win with the town.

[Originally: Universal Backup]

Debate - You are VANILLA. You have no role.

[Originally: Super Saint]

Mikal - You are the SIDEKICK. Each night you may select another player. Any nonlethal actions aimed at them will be redirected to you. You win with the town.

Lannan - You are the PGO. You kill anyone who visits you at night. You win with the town.

Wylted - You are the PRIEST (again, lol.) You learn the roles of the players that visit you at night, though not which role goes with which player, or the names of the players who visited you. You win with the town.

NIGHT ACTIONS

Oro - Vig. XLAV
Ajab - Sdk. Wylted
Number - Rlst. Debate
Chosen - Sct. 9space
Ray - Rdct. Ajab to Lannan
Chosen - NK Wylted

With Mikal lynched, and Ajab, XLAV, and Wylted dying in the night, DP2 would have been 3 townies vs. 3 mafiosos, which is a mafia win.

MOD COMMENTS

Three things lost town this game:

XLAV - led a poor mislynch of Mikal, looked scummy causing Oro to vig him
Mikal - failed to properly read and explain his role PM, jumped to conclusions, failed to articulate himself cogently
Mafia - brilliantly used the PGO to their advantage
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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7/7/2014 11:34:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
ATTENTION

The next game in the series will be up tomorrow.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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numberwang
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7/7/2014 11:38:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
That was pure luck, the PGO claim was helpful for us but we didnt count in the vig.

The redirect was my idea, but good on chosen and ray for killing wylted. If we had done xlav like I wanted this game wouldnt yet be over!

We didnt even need to bus me, lol.
bsh1
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7/7/2014 11:50:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 11:38:47 PM, ChosenWolff wrote:
Sorry for kicking ya'll's @sses ;)
http://www.debate.org...

This is still part of the series. All rules remain in force. Keep in mind Chosen, your play was far from inspired. Had town actually engaged in analysis, probably you and Number would've been lynched DP1 and DP2, IMHO.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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7/7/2014 11:55:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What the hell was Mikal thinking claiming 3 different roles and why would anyone possibly think XLAV was mafia!!! Ugh!!!!
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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7/7/2014 11:57:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Why is XLAV getting chastised? When you claim like 4 different roles in a half hour period, obviously you'll look scummy. That didn't seem like a poor mislynch to me.
XLAV
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7/8/2014 12:00:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 11:57:44 PM, Wylted wrote:
Why is XLAV getting chastised? When you claim like 4 different roles in a half hour period, obviously you'll look scummy. That didn't seem like a poor mislynch to me.

Honestly though, I had a feeling Mikal was town so I kept on giving him the chance to forget our FoS on each other and focus on 9space or number. He was too annoying that I decided to just go and lynch him.

I was hoping there would be a DP2 so I could make the case for Number, but meh, too many killing roles.
bsh1
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7/8/2014 12:04:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 11:57:44 PM, Wylted wrote:
Why is XLAV getting chastised? When you claim like 4 different roles in a half hour period, obviously you'll look scummy. That didn't seem like a poor mislynch to me.

XLAV is being chastised due to his over-aggressive playstyle. Mikal was also chastised, as he helped bring down town as well. Ultimately, had cooler heads prevailed, discussion might've actually occurred allowing town to reach more sensible conclusions. I've seen townies do scummier things than that, and have seen calmer heads resolve the confusion and successfully scumhunt regardless. Ultimately, I am not so much chastising XLAV, as I am suggesting he work to consciously adjust his own meta to something (a) less confrontational, and (b) based more on discourse.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
ChosenWolff
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7/8/2014 12:05:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 11:50:16 PM, bsh1 wrote:
But we didn't, so your feedback is invalid and opinionated.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
bsh1
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7/8/2014 12:06:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 12:05:33 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/7/2014 11:50:16 PM, bsh1 wrote:
But we didn't, so your feedback is invalid and opinionated.

It may be opinionated, but that does not render it invalid. The exact same criticism I applied to XLAV's meta apply to yours as well.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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7/8/2014 12:07:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 12:06:40 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/8/2014 12:05:33 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/7/2014 11:50:16 PM, bsh1 wrote:
But we didn't, so your feedback is invalid and opinionated.

It may be opinionated, but that does not render it invalid. The exact same criticism I applied to XLAV's meta apply to yours as well.

It didn't happen, so it remains an opinion, nothing more or less.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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7/8/2014 12:10:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 12:07:26 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/8/2014 12:06:40 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/8/2014 12:05:33 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/7/2014 11:50:16 PM, bsh1 wrote:
But we didn't, so your feedback is invalid and opinionated.

It may be opinionated, but that does not render it invalid. The exact same criticism I applied to XLAV's meta apply to yours as well.

It didn't happen, so it remains an opinion, nothing more or less.

Again, reasonable speculation isn't invalid as analysis. No one would say you played well as mafia after looking at this game. The logical next step is to ask, how could you improve. Speculation helps to answer the question. My feedback isn't meant as an insult, but rather as advice so that you can become better.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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7/8/2014 12:11:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 12:10:44 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/8/2014 12:07:26 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/8/2014 12:06:40 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/8/2014 12:05:33 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/7/2014 11:50:16 PM, bsh1 wrote:
But we didn't, so your feedback is invalid and opinionated.

It may be opinionated, but that does not render it invalid. The exact same criticism I applied to XLAV's meta apply to yours as well.

It didn't happen, so it remains an opinion, nothing more or less.

Again, reasonable speculation isn't invalid as analysis. No one would say you played well as mafia after looking at this game.
Opinion
The logical next step is to ask, how could you improve.
Don't need to improve. Already better than you (opinion)
Speculation helps to answer the question. My feedback isn't meant as an insult, but rather as advice so that you can become better.
It's meant to be an opinion
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
numberwang
Posts: 1,917
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7/8/2014 12:13:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 11:55:18 PM, Wylted wrote:
What the hell was Mikal thinking claiming 3 different roles and why would anyone possibly think XLAV was mafia!!! Ugh!!!!

Because he led a lynch on an inno and his meta sucks for town, lelelel. Oro proved it with the vig.
XLAV
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7/8/2014 12:14:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 12:14:27 AM, XLAV wrote:
If only 9space was inactive or someone replaced him sooner we would have won.

active*
bsh1
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7/8/2014 12:16:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 12:11:55 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/8/2014 12:10:44 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/8/2014 12:07:26 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/8/2014 12:06:40 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/8/2014 12:05:33 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:
At 7/7/2014 11:50:16 PM, bsh1 wrote:
But we didn't, so your feedback is invalid and opinionated.

It may be opinionated, but that does not render it invalid. The exact same criticism I applied to XLAV's meta apply to yours as well.

It didn't happen, so it remains an opinion, nothing more or less.

Again, reasonable speculation isn't invalid as analysis. No one would say you played well as mafia after looking at this game.
Opinion
The logical next step is to ask, how could you improve.
Don't need to improve. Already better than you (opinion)
Speculation helps to answer the question. My feedback isn't meant as an insult, but rather as advice so that you can become better.
It's meant to be an opinion

Again, all advice on how to improve is an opinion, that does not mean that the advice is bad or not worth taking. And I challenge you to find some experience mafia player to describe your play as "good" in this game.

As for the need for improvement, I certainly don't believe you're better than me, but even so, that doesn't mean you should stop improving.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
XLAV
Posts: 13,729
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7/8/2014 12:17:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 12:13:55 AM, numberwang wrote:
At 7/7/2014 11:55:18 PM, Wylted wrote:
What the hell was Mikal thinking claiming 3 different roles and why would anyone possibly think XLAV was mafia!!! Ugh!!!!

Because he led a lynch on an inno and his meta sucks for town, lelelel. Oro proved it with the vig.
First of all, Chosen led the lynch, not me. My vote was just on Mikal the whole time.
Also, saying my meta "sucks" just proves none of you know how to read meta. My town meta was obvious for those who played with me at least once.
Oromagi
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7/8/2014 12:18:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 12:00:19 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 7/7/2014 11:57:44 PM, Wylted wrote:
I was hoping there would be a DP2 so I could make the case for Number, but meh, too many killing roles.

Number was my only other suspicion. I seriously considered number & I seriously considered no vig. I wasn't put off by XLAV's gameplay but by the early claim of dreamer. As I admitted in the last series, I am prejudiced against dreamers because in the games I've played way more scum claim dreamer than town.

Claiming dreamer early seems counterproductive- town can do little to save you, scum may easy methods of disabling you and if not then scum is highly motivated to target. I guess this a good lesson regarding the danger of everybody dropping trou on DP1.
numberwang
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7/8/2014 12:18:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 12:17:29 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 7/8/2014 12:13:55 AM, numberwang wrote:
At 7/7/2014 11:55:18 PM, Wylted wrote:
What the hell was Mikal thinking claiming 3 different roles and why would anyone possibly think XLAV was mafia!!! Ugh!!!!

Because he led a lynch on an inno and his meta sucks for town, lelelel. Oro proved it with the vig.
First of all, Chosen led the lynch, not me. My vote was just on Mikal the whole time.
Also, saying my meta "sucks" just proves none of you know how to read meta. My town meta was obvious for those who played with me at least once.

Oh no, it is definitely your town meta, but it isn't pro town. That's why it sucks. People who don't know assume you're scum because it is not good for town. Your meta lost you the game.
ChosenWolff
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7/8/2014 12:19:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 12:16:57 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Again, all advice on how to improve is an opinion,
Advice being an opinion is an opinion
that does not mean that the advice is bad or not worth taking.
It also means it could be a bad thing or not worth taking. It's an opinion.
And I challenge you to find some experience mafia player to describe your play as "good" in this game.
Experienced is an opinion. I'm experienced and the best.

As for the need for improvement, I certainly don't believe you're better than me, but even so, that doesn't mean you should stop improving.
Yes I do. You're so bad at mafia. You'll never beat me!!!
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
XLAV
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7/8/2014 12:20:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Hell, I was planning to remove wolf from the town pile on DP2 after i read Beginners 26.3 again and notice a different meta change.
bsh1
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7/8/2014 12:20:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 12:19:09 AM, ChosenWolff wrote:

You are hereby banned from all remaining games in the series for conduct violations and trolling. This is not a joke.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
numberwang
Posts: 1,917
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7/8/2014 12:20:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 12:14:27 AM, XLAV wrote:
If only 9space was inactive or someone replaced him sooner we would have won.

Highly doubt it. You still would have lynched Mikal for his not so stellar play, you still would have been vigged by Oro for your not so stellar play, Lannan still would have revealed PGO setting up our redirect kill on the Backup (my idea lelelellelelele) and wylted's nk still would have gone through. I doubt space9 would have made any difference.