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Transformers Mafia Endgame

trekie
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9/2/2014 10:40:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Mafia and Mikal/FT wins! (Drafter, Danielle, Daltonian, & Endark)

Previous Day Phases:
DP1: http://www.debate.org...
DP2: http://www.debate.org...
DP3: http://www.debate.org...
DP4: http://www.debate.org...
DP5: http://www.debate.org...
DP6: http://www.debate.org...
Mason PM: http://goo.gl... (Maikuru, Lucky, & TUF)

Dramatis Personae

Town(10)

1) bsh1/YYW
Character: Prowl
Role: Vote Thief - Each night you may target another player. During the next Day Phase you will have superior control over their vote. You can change their vote any time and as many times as you want by posting [Player#1] votes [Player#2] or [Player#1] unvotes in your role PM. However, they may retain control of their vote during any period you don't have their vote explicitly placed on another player.
"I don't want to lead. I don't need public approval. My goal is to put all my resources into winning this war. That's the way it should be for a number cruncher like me. But with Kup, everyone wants to hear what he has to say. So now, when he speaks... you won't even see my lips move." - IDW Comics
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Town. The Town wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.

2) ford_prefect
Character: Cliffjumper
Role: Countinuity Cop - Each night you may select another player. You will learn which Transformers continuity their character/quote is from.
"Last week, I'd have told ya that you had a cracked cylinder. But... I've seen some crazy things lately. Dimension hopping, time travel, alternate realities... what I wouldn't give for a simple war with good guys and bad guys!" - Marvel Comics
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Town. The Town wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.

3) Lucky_Luciano
Character: Brainstorm
Role: Inventor - During each night you may choose to do two of the following:
A) Build a new invention.
Choose an item to build from the following list:
- Evasive Bullet
- Holomatter Avatar
- Metafictional Bomb
- Shoomer
- Thought Bullet
- Slow Cell
- Existential Gun
- The Unmentionable (can't be tested)
B) Test out your contraption.
Choose an already built item and learn what the item does.
C) Use an item. (Without testing, safety is not guaranteed!)
Choose an already built item to use. If you don't know what the item does and it requires a target in order to be used you will be prompted to provide one. (You can self target if you wish.)
D) Give an item to another player.
Choose an already built item and target another player. Your target will receive the item during the night. The passed on item can be used in addition to a player's original abiliti(es) starting from the following night.
"Ah, enriched nucleon...! The magic ingredient! Two drops turns hand gun into a banned gun." - IDW Comics
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Town. The Town wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.
[hidden mod note:
Evasive Bullet - During the night you may target another player to die. Your shot will only go through if your target is not an Autobot.
Holomatter Avatar - During the night you may target another player. Your target will appear the opposite affiliation of what they actually are to investigations for the rest of the game.
Metafictional Bomb - During the night you may select 3 players, if there are any hidden mod notes attached to their role it will be revealed to them.
Shoomer - During the night you may redirect all lethal actions to yourself.
Thought Bullet - During the night you may choose two players. All actions performed by the first player will be redirected to the second.
Slow Cell - During the night you may target another player. You will delay any result they might get by 1 night.
Existential Gun - During the night you may target another player. That player will be unable to take any action. (Excluding the mafia faction kill.)
The Unmentionable - It does nothing.]


4) TN05
Character: Punch/Counterpunch
Role: Double Agent - On odd-nights, you will compulsively visit First Aid and relay crucial information to him regarding the Mafia's plans for the night. On even nights, you will be forced to obey the Mafia's will.
"Fine. You deal with my Autobot counterpart. I've heard he's nearby ...real nearby." - G1 Cartoon
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Town. The Town wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.
[hidden mode note: Will relay 3 names to First Aid on odd-nights, one of which will be the mafia NK target, while the other 2 will be randomly choosen from all living players. Can be forced to carry out the Mafia faction kill on even nights.]

5) XLAV
Character: Sam Witwicky
Role: Vanilla Townie - Your weapon is your vote, you have no night actions.
"...I want to help you, I do, but I am not some alien ambassador, you know? I'm a normal kid with normal problems. I am where I'm supposed to be." - Live-Action Films
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Town. The Town wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.

6) PeacefulChaos
Character: Bumblebee
Role: Bodyguard - Each night you may select another player. All lethal actions targeting that player will be redirected to you, instead.
"I wish to stay with the boy." - Live-Action Films
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Town. The Town wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.

7) Wylted
Character: Nightbeat
Role: Medium - Each night you will learn predetermined information about the game setup.
"For me, it's all about the details. Look closely at something and it'll make sense. If it doesn't, look closer." - IDW Comics
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Town. The Town wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.
[hidden mod note:
NP1 - There were 4 mafia to begin with at the start of the game.
NP2 - There are hidden flavours in the game.
NP3 - There was at least one Third-party at the start of the game.
NP4 - Shockwave is in the game and Mafia.
NP5 - Joint wins are possible.
NP6 - Mod notes are green.]


8) TUF
Character: Hound
Role: Watcher - Each night you may select another player. You will learn who visited them, but not what action(s) were performed.
"Observe everything, remember even more." - Marvel Comics
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Town. The Town wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.
[hidden flavour: Insane, receives the results of a sane Tracker.]

9) Khaos_Mage
Character: First Aid
Role: 50/50 Doctor - Each night you may select another player. If that player is targeted by a lethal action you have a 50% chance of stopping it.
"Because no one will ever be as good as you, will they? Certainly not me." - IDW Comics
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Town. The Town wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.
trekie
Posts: 772
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9/2/2014 10:44:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
10) Maikuru
Character: Springer
Role: Mason Recruiter - Each night you may convert another player into a Mason. You and all Masons share a PM. You will die upon recruiting Mafia.
"Welcome to the team. Just be prepared: sometimes in the Wreckers, your first day is your last." - IDW Comics
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Town. The Town wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.
[hidden flavour: Can recruit Third-parties.]

Third Parties (2)

11) FourTrouble/Mikal
Character: Whirl
Role: JOAT Survivor - You may use one of the following 1-shot abilities at night:
1xDodger - You may select another player. Their night action will have no effect on you.
1xTracker - You may select another player. You will learn who they visited, but not what action(s) they took.
1xBulletproof - You may choose to be protected from lethal actions for a night.
"So here's the plan: I'll watch your back and you watch mine. And if we make it out of this alive, then all scores are settled, okay? No more trying to kill me. What do you say?" - IDW Comics
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win jointly with the winning faction if you survive until any faction meets its win condition.

12) EndarkenedRationalist
Character: Cyclonus
Role: Unbalanced Vigilante - Each night you may select another player to die. However, you will turn into a Serial Killer if you are still alive on DP5 or successfully kill more than one player at night.
"I'm going to kill you. Not today. Maybe not for a while. But I will kill you. And don't think you will see it coming." - IDW Comics
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Town. The Town wins when it eliminates all opposing factions.

Mafia(4)

13) Drafter
Character: Starscream
Role: Roleblocker - Each night you may select another player and prevent them from taking any action.
"I would love to see you try! Really, I would!" - Transformers Prime
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Mafia. The Mafia wins when it eliminates all opposing factions (or when nothing can prevent the same outcome).

14) Danielle
Character: Shockwave
Role: Traitor - You are part of the mafia, but they are unaware of your existence. The mafia are X, Y and Z. If you are night-killed by the mafia, you will instead survive and join in the Mafia PM.
"At long last, I serve you, my liege, under my true colors." - Transformers Animated
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Mafia. The Mafia wins when it eliminates all opposing factions (or when nothing can prevent the same outcome).

15) Daltonian
Character: Soundwave
Role: JOAT - You may use one of the following 1-shot abilities at night:
- 1xRole Cop - You may select another player. You will receive their role PM.
- 1xFollower - You may select another player. You will learn what action(s) they performed.
- 1xInformant - You may select another player. If that player receives information as a result of their role, or game-related messages from the mod, you will receive a copy of those messages.
- 1xWatcher - You may select another player. You will learn who visited them, but not what action(s) were performed.
"I listen. I hear everything. Every transmission, every vocalization, every flash of light, every hologram. I hear it all." - IDW Comics
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Mafia. The Mafia wins when it eliminates all opposing factions (or when nothing can prevent the same outcome).

16) Endark(2) (sub-in for Josh)
Character: Optimus Prime
Role: Pacifist - You cannot vote on players who are at L-1. Attempts to place such votes will not be recorded.
"Of course! I had forgotten how much you enjoyed executing the prisoners. Please old friend, I want you to have the honor of this execution in celebration of your return to us." - Marvel Comics/Shattered Glass
Affiliation/Win Condition: You win with the Mafia. The Mafia wins when it eliminates all opposing factions (or when nothing can prevent the same outcome).

Additional Information for the Mafia:
On even nights you may force 'Counterpunch' to carry out the Mafia faction kill.
trekie
Posts: 772
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9/2/2014 10:46:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Night Actions

NP1
Khaos docs TUF.
Peaceful bodyguards Endark(1). (dies)
Ford quote cops TUF. ("Marvel Comics")
Lucky crafts and tests a Metafictional Bomb.
Maikuru recruits Lucky.
TUF "watches" TN05. (roleblocked)
Drafter roleblocks TUF and kills Peaceful.
Dalt rolecops FT/Mikal. ("JOAT Survivor")
Endark(1) vigs Danielle.
YYW/bsh1 steals XLAV's vote.
FT/Mikal tracks Khaos. (Khaos visited TUF.)
TN05 relays info to Khaos. ("TUF, Maikuru, PeacefulChaos")

NP2
Ford quote cops Maikuru. ("IDW Comics")
Maikuru recruits TUF.
YYW/bsh1 steals drafter's vote. (roleblocked)
Lucky reveals mode notes to Ford, Maikuru, and Himself, and crafts a Thought Bullet.
FT/Mikal uses bulletproof.
Drafter roleblockes YYW/bsh1.
TN05 is forced to kill Khaos.
Dalt follows Maikuru. ("Maikuru recruited.")
Khaos docs TUF. (dies)
TUF "watches" YYW/bsh1. (YYW/bsh1 didn't visit anyone.)

NP3
Ford quote cops Dalt. ("IDW Comics")
TUF "watches" Lucky. (Lucky didn't visit anyone.)
Drafter roleblockes Lucky and kills Maikuru.
Lucky crafts an Evasive Bullet and shoots Dalt. (roleblocked)
Dalt watches Lucky. ("Drafter and TUF visited Lucky.")
Maikuru recruits TN05. (dies, recruit fails)
FT/Mikal waives.

NP4
Ford quote cops Endark(2). (redirected to himself, "Marvel Comics")
TUF "watches" XLAV. (XLAV didn't visit anyone.)
TN05 is forced to kill Lucky.
Lucky redirects Ford to himself and crafts an Evasive Bullet. (dies)
Dalt waives.
FT/Mikal dodges Lucky.

NP5
Ford quote cops TN05. ("G1 Cartoon")
TUF "watches" Dalt. (dies)
Dalt kills TUF.
trekie
Posts: 772
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9/2/2014 10:57:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Balancing
I thought the setup was balanced and everybody had a fair chance of winning, be Town, Mafia, or TP. Gun to my head, I'd actually say that town had an edge. The pseudo Serial Killer was a sort of wild card thrown into the mix who could (dis)advantage either faction though.

In the actual game, Town had mislyched 5 times before they lost, so I don't think they should have an issue balancing wise. Although, obviously some things could have happened differently, like the SK coming into play, a mismasoning, or misviging. I think I've accounted for those in the game design process, but for furure betterment, I'm happy to hear any complaints or suggestions.

Theme explanation
Obviously, it wasn't strickly Autobot vs Decepticon. It was Good vs Evil with subtle nuances where the TPs were concerned. Every player was a specific iteration of their character defined and restricted by their quote to a specific Transformers continuity. That's how Optimus could be a bad guy, and Cyclonus & Whirl be semi-good/-bad guys.

There was a direct thematic connection between the two TPs which was pretty accurately pinpointed by Lucky and Drafter on DP3. They were from the same continuity and their quotes were directly referencing each other. Whirl, the joint-win survivor, is often cited as "Twice voted Autobot most likely to defect," while Cyclonus, the serial killer, is a neutral aligned ex-murderer who's trying to repent by working with the Autobots.

This wasn't 'must figure out' knowledge to win the game though, I wasn't expecting people to get into theme analysis that much. Cyclonus was a 'scummy' character which a potential Serial Killer is ought to be, while Whirl was a 'townie' character which is fair for a joint-win Survivor who doesn't necessarily has to be lynched for a town victory.

Mode notes on some role mechanics
1) Continuity Cop - This role was mainly a counter balance and thematic hint for the mafioso with the evil, mirror universe version of Optimus Prime. Had anybody googled the quote I've provided for Ford's character, they would have realized that I cut off the first line:
"So, you're telling me that Megatron's a good guy and Optimus Prime is loonier than Straxus?"
I thought that would have been too obvious a hint, but maybe not. The role also functioned as a weak lie detector. Granted, outside of the mafioso with the Optimus Prime character, nobody had any real reason to lie about their continuity but scum wouldn't have necessairly known that. (e.g. Drafter lied too to suit his role claim.) It only mattered how (evil/good) a character was defined in their quote of origin, not the originating continuity itself. The abundance of comic book characters was simply due to the fact that I'm a huge fan of those, especially the IDW stuff.

2) Double Agent - This role was created mainly for thematic reasons. It would have made sense to make it a Flip-Flop, but I don't like to fvck with people's affiliation that way, so I just tried to strike a balance between negative/positive utility with it for Mafia/Town. Outside of its main utility to provide info on the mafia NK target, it also outright town confirmed 'First Aid'. And since it started out pos. utility on odd nights, it could also confirm its role to him on the first NP. After that, the Mafia really has to consider if bypassing potential watcher/tracker results are more important than getting rid of semi-confirmed townies and risking NK fails.

3) Mafia Pacifist - I'll just say that role confirmation =/= affiliation confirmation. Having a mafioso who can't quick hammer in MYLO/LYLO situations is negative utility for scum. Town shouldn't have any problems with that. I don't see anything bastardly about the role in this specific setup.

Analysis, indivdual game play, and other fun stuff
Key Moments in the Game:
- Wylted CCes Endark in a "reaction test" and gets lynched for his troubles. A move so puzzling that mafia gets a free mislynch without lifting a finger.
- Endark(1) vigs Danielle on NP1 instead of TUF. Thumbs up for town.
- Maikuru recruits Lucky on NP1. An excelent choice considering the potential power of their combined roles and most players' scum read on Lucky at the time.
- Lucky figures out that targeting himself with the Meta Bomb will reveal what each of his inventions do without any further testing necessary. This turns a handicapped JOAT into a powerhouse.
- Mafia learns that Maikuru is a Mason Recruiter. This was due to a lucky, last minute change by Drafter. They were originally going to follow Lucky on NP2.
- Drafter somehow gets out of the DP3 lynch and turns it onto YYW/Bsh instead. I'd call this the key moment of the game. Things would have gone significantly better for town if YYW/Bsh didn't self hammer. I even gave an extension to town against my better judgement.
- Dalt gets further town cred by truthfully outing watcher results. I think this is part of the reason why Lucky didn't try to vig him again. He sort of went off of people's radar, and the Masons opted for a plan with seemingly more net benefit.
- Lucky redirects Ford on NP4. This deprived Ford from a result that would have spelt certain doom for Endark(2). Lucky could have won the game for town had he tried to shoot Dalt again. Regardless, town still had a fair chance of winning at this point.
- Ford fails to fact check Endark's quote from a 4 page long DP while complaining about how useless his role is. Lucky break for Endark and the mafia.
- Everybody overlooks that TN05 claimed to be controled on even nights by the mafia. Surprisingly, this reading fail almost gets town on the right track when Dalt comes under heavy scrutiny by the faulty PoE.
- XLAV gets mislynched because he's a derp who wasn't putting any effort into the game. (Sorry XLAV, but it's true.)
- TN05 self votes at LYLO because all the cool kids are doing it. Out of the 5 mislynches 3 had the lynchee's vote on the wagon. Amazing. And the Mafia is victorious!

Town MVP - Lucky
He may disagree but despite his oversight on NP4, I thought he was the biggest asset to town while alive. He was the most attentive player in the game and his reads were fluid when they needed to be. His strategizing in the Mason PM was also excellent, and he was only ever really fooled by Drafter from the scum team.

Honorable mention goes to Maikuru, who had solid night action choices, had fairly accurate reads, was reasonable in thread, and was only really fooled by Drafter.

Mafia MVP - drafter
He pretty much called the shots in the scum PM, wihout him the Mafia would have seriously lacked direction. Deflecting the DP3 lynch to YYW/Bsh was also huge. Had Drafter been lynched then, a scum loss would have been all but guaranteed. Without a roleblocker, Lucky's vig of Dalt would have gone through that night, leaving Endark as the last scum standing.

Dalt was a really solid supporting scummate even if he got a bit panicky on occasion. Endark was also a great asset to any respective team he was on at any given time.

WTF Moment of the Game - Lucky is a mass lie detector
This lie was so preposterous yet elaborate that almost nobody seemed to question it. Was really fun to watch, and it made the mafia scramble a little. Drafter was forced to roleblock Lucky on the following night which irreversibly cemented him as scum, and even Dalt's deliberate typo was called out, so I certainly can't say it was a fruitless enterprise, even if it lacked actual follow-through.
trekie
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9/2/2014 11:03:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Favourite Quotes of the Game:

At 8/24/2014 3:38:23 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
Also, Daltonian is probably mafia.
Or maybe not. Who knows.
- A quick if not subtle recovery by FT after calling out a mafioso in a momentary lapse of judgement.

At 8/22/2014 2:31:52 AM, TUF wrote:
Lately my problem is I think that I have been too watchful of things.
- TUF, opting to own a bakery, instead of laying breadcrumbs.

At 8/24/2014 11:40:12 AM, TN05 wrote:
I don't know anything other than who I aid.
- TN05, being actually stealthy about that First Aid reference.

At 8/29/2014 11:38:24 AM, Lucky_Luciano wrote:
Maikuru, answering your sentiments from the mason's pm in what I will declare as your funeral, it indeed was an honor serving with you, brother. You will be missed. Say hello to Primus for me and don't get too settled in without me!
- True bromance of the Masons.

At 8/24/2014 11:29:51 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
He and I need to have a cryptic talk.
- Khaos, probably every game ever.

Daltonian wrote:
BTW: I'm going to soft claim that my character is Generation 1 and (to my knowledge) has never appeared in any of the major Transformers films.
Actually, lemme clarify this:
A character that has the same name as me has appeared in the movies, but I haven't.
Ok guys, forget my soft claim. I made a mistake and thought I was the wrong character.
There are multiple characters with the same name and I thought I was the wrong one.
I'm not G1 and I have appeared in the film >.<
No, not yet. I softed that my character appears in the films and that there are multiple characters that share my name (after some confusion about who I actually was)
I'd say I'm G1 as well, but I'm not really sure. There are a lot of variants of my character and one of them is definitely G1 according to the wikipedia page.
IDW Comics. Why?
I am Arcee, Chromia, and Elita-one, JOAT, for whomever is compiling a claims list
I am three autobot sisters that merge together to form one autobot.
They do combine. It doesn't explicitly say the combine in my role PM, but I assumed they did because things like this were the top result when I googled it
- Dalt, making that character claim up as he goes along.

Thank you all for playing! I hope everybody had some fun.
Lucky_Luciano
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9/2/2014 11:04:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Meh, I think Maikuru was the town MVP. If he were alive instead of me, he would have trusted himself more than I trusted myself. We were 95% in-sync this game and didn't even have to explain our reads to each other most of the time, but he has far more confidence as town. All-in-all a really fun game that re-ignited my enjoyment of DDO mafia.
"Age is not important" - Airmax 2014
"Australia... is that a place?" - Airmax 2014
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,759
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9/2/2014 11:06:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
YYW's lynch should NEVER have happened. That was a true failing on the town's part, and they totally deserved to lose after that.

Lucky's mass lie detect claim was a fun idea, but I knew exactly what he was doing right away. I imagine the mafia did as well. The claim was too ridiculous. I think a normal lie detector fake-claim would have been more effective, i.e. more believable and thus more likely to cause mafia to claim their actual character/role.
Lucky_Luciano
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9/2/2014 11:09:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/2/2014 11:06:42 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
YYW's lynch should NEVER have happened. That was a true failing on the town's part, and they totally deserved to lose after that.

Lucky's mass lie detect claim was a fun idea, but I knew exactly what he was doing right away. I imagine the mafia did as well. The claim was too ridiculous. I think a normal lie detector fake-claim would have been more effective, i.e. more believable and thus more likely to cause mafia to claim their actual character/role.

You have no room to talk. This is yet another game that you refuse to play in because you are not town. How many more mods are going to let you play in there game after you repeatedly leave when they don't cater to you and confirm you as town?
"Age is not important" - Airmax 2014
"Australia... is that a place?" - Airmax 2014
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,759
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9/2/2014 11:12:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/2/2014 11:09:37 PM, Lucky_Luciano wrote:
At 9/2/2014 11:06:42 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
YYW's lynch should NEVER have happened. That was a true failing on the town's part, and they totally deserved to lose after that.

Lucky's mass lie detect claim was a fun idea, but I knew exactly what he was doing right away. I imagine the mafia did as well. The claim was too ridiculous. I think a normal lie detector fake-claim would have been more effective, i.e. more believable and thus more likely to cause mafia to claim their actual character/role.

You have no room to talk. This is yet another game that you refuse to play in because you are not town. How many more mods are going to let you play in there game after you repeatedly leave when they don't cater to you and confirm you as town?

This is false. I played this game. Before I was outed as third-party, I actually was active. After we were outed, I did my best to make sure we survived. I played to MY win-condition. Which means I played differently than I would have played as town or mafia.

I told you guys that YYW was town. You think I'm gonna do everything in my power to make sure he stays alive? Hell no. I can't risk the mafia night-killing me. I'm gonna let things play out however they play out. I didn't want to take sides.
Lucky_Luciano
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9/2/2014 11:16:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/2/2014 11:12:18 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 9/2/2014 11:09:37 PM, Lucky_Luciano wrote:
At 9/2/2014 11:06:42 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
YYW's lynch should NEVER have happened. That was a true failing on the town's part, and they totally deserved to lose after that.

Lucky's mass lie detect claim was a fun idea, but I knew exactly what he was doing right away. I imagine the mafia did as well. The claim was too ridiculous. I think a normal lie detector fake-claim would have been more effective, i.e. more believable and thus more likely to cause mafia to claim their actual character/role.

You have no room to talk. This is yet another game that you refuse to play in because you are not town. How many more mods are going to let you play in there game after you repeatedly leave when they don't cater to you and confirm you as town?

This is false. I played this game. Before I was outed as third-party, I actually was active. After we were outed, I did my best to make sure we survived. I played to MY win-condition. Which means I played differently than I would have played as town or mafia.

I told you guys that YYW was town. You think I'm gonna do everything in my power to make sure he stays alive? Hell no. I can't risk the mafia night-killing me. I'm gonna let things play out however they play out. I didn't want to take sides.

You b!tched at the mod before the game even started and then bailed the moment Mikal showed up to play.
"Age is not important" - Airmax 2014
"Australia... is that a place?" - Airmax 2014
FourTrouble
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9/2/2014 11:26:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/2/2014 11:16:36 PM, Lucky_Luciano wrote:
You b!tched at the mod before the game even started and then bailed the moment Mikal showed up to play.

I didn't bitch at the mod. I explained why our role created conflicting incentives, because it required us to play either play pro-town to survive the DP, in which case we'd get night-killed, or to play pro-scum and get lynched. Had we been bulletproof without having to choose when to use the 1x bulletproof, we could have played pro-town without worrying about the night-kill. However, our role did not allow that.

So the correct strategy for us became town-reading mafia, while appearing pro-town, which was insanely challenging. This is what we tried to do during D1, and I had some fun doing that. When our role was outed, and the town decided to keep us alive, I no longer had any reason to fabricate analysis. I posted only to defend ourselves from drafter. Which again, was playing to MY win-condition. If you don't see how I was playing to my win-condition, then you don't understand my role very well. I had to make sure we were never a threat to the mafia.

I have no idea what Mikal was doing. Personally, I thought he should have posted less. But I didn't mind him posting, because he never turned us into a threat to the mafia, which was fine with me.
bsh1
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9/2/2014 11:28:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
GG

Congrats to mafia + TP on their victory. Thanks to trekie as well. Hydra-ing was certainly an interesting experience; and this game certainly got me involved.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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9/2/2014 11:28:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/2/2014 11:26:29 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 9/2/2014 11:16:36 PM, Lucky_Luciano wrote:
You b!tched at the mod before the game even started and then bailed the moment Mikal showed up to play.

I didn't bitch at the mod. I explained why our role created conflicting incentives, because it required us to play either play pro-town to survive the DP, in which case we'd get night-killed, or to play pro-scum and get lynched. Had we been bulletproof without having to choose when to use the 1x bulletproof, we could have played pro-town without worrying about the night-kill. However, our role did not allow that.

So the correct strategy for us became town-reading mafia, while appearing pro-town, which was insanely challenging. This is what we tried to do during D1, and I had some fun doing that. When our role was outed, and the town decided to keep us alive, I no longer had any reason to fabricate analysis. I posted only to defend ourselves from drafter. Which again, was playing to MY win-condition. If you don't see how I was playing to my win-condition, then you don't understand my role very well. I had to make sure we were never a threat to the mafia.

I have no idea what Mikal was doing. Personally, I thought he should have posted less. But I didn't mind him posting, because he never turned us into a threat to the mafia, which was fine with me.

This last sentence is 100% accurate. I love being mafia when Mikal is town/TP. It's basically a godsend.
trekie
Posts: 772
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9/3/2014 12:17:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/2/2014 6:06:38 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 9/2/2014 6:03:47 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
And then be SK
Just more proof no one could read my role. :-)
I turned into an SK if killed 2 people in the same night. Not in general.
Um, you would have turned into an SK if you shot Drafter on NP2. Did I phrase that role PM wrong? You couldn't possibly have killed more than one player on the same night...
Lucky_Luciano
Posts: 4,350
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9/3/2014 12:29:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/3/2014 12:17:02 AM, trekie wrote:
At 9/2/2014 6:06:38 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 9/2/2014 6:03:47 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
And then be SK
Just more proof no one could read my role. :-)
I turned into an SK if killed 2 people in the same night. Not in general.
Um, you would have turned into an SK if you shot Drafter on NP2. Did I phrase that role PM wrong? You couldn't possibly have killed more than one player on the same night...

You phrased it correctly.
"Age is not important" - Airmax 2014
"Australia... is that a place?" - Airmax 2014
trekie
Posts: 772
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9/3/2014 12:33:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/2/2014 10:25:24 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
I love how I won this game by doing nothing.
See? I did tell you on that first NP when you aired your concerns that you would have a reasonable chance to win in my setup. No need to be full bulletproof. :)

At 9/2/2014 11:26:29 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
Had we been bulletproof without having to choose when to use the 1x bulletproof, we could have played pro-town without worrying about the night-kill. However, our role did not allow that.
That is true, and was sort of the point of having the role be that way. I didn't want an extra townie, I wanted a self-serving TP.

So the correct strategy for us became town-reading mafia, while appearing pro-town, which was insanely challenging. This is what we tried to do during D1, and I had some fun doing that.
I know that some people don't like being survivor for this very reason, but that's still the point of puting a survivor in the game. And as I said to you earlier, while admittedly more challanging than being simply town or mafia, I felt that I did design the game in a way that would accomodate it.

When our role was outed, and the town decided to keep us alive, I no longer had any reason to fabricate analysis. I posted only to defend ourselves from drafter. Which again, was playing to MY win-condition.
That, I can completely understand. I'm glad that Mikal was active in your stead in late game from a mod perspective though.
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,138
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9/3/2014 12:54:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Trekie I know I should have gone back to check and if I hadnt been as busy, I would have. But keep in mind, I didn't even remember what dp endark had claimed his continuity in, or if it was even endark or josh who claimed it. I have a hard time keeping track of replacements, because I mix up names easily. So to me it wasn't a matter of looking thru a 4 page dp. I feared I'd have to go back and read pretty much everything in order to get that info. Plus I sort of assumed somebody else would remember it and point it out if there was a discrepancy. Which granted was my mistake
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
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9/3/2014 3:10:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/2/2014 11:03:02 PM, trekie wrote:
Daltonian wrote:
BTW: I'm going to soft claim that my character is Generation 1 and (to my knowledge) has never appeared in any of the major Transformers films.
Actually, lemme clarify this:
A character that has the same name as me has appeared in the movies, but I haven't.
Ok guys, forget my soft claim. I made a mistake and thought I was the wrong character.
There are multiple characters with the same name and I thought I was the wrong one.
I'm not G1 and I have appeared in the film >.<
No, not yet. I softed that my character appears in the films and that there are multiple characters that share my name (after some confusion about who I actually was)
I'd say I'm G1 as well, but I'm not really sure. There are a lot of variants of my character and one of them is definitely G1 according to the wikipedia page.
IDW Comics. Why?
I am Arcee, Chromia, and Elita-one, JOAT, for whomever is compiling a claims list
I am three autobot sisters that merge together to form one autobot.
They do combine. It doesn't explicitly say the combine in my role PM, but I assumed they did because things like this were the top result when I googled it
- Dalt, making that character claim up as he goes along.

Thank you all for playing! I hope everybody had some fun.

That...
I'm not sure whether that's sad or absolutely hilarious.
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Daltonian
Posts: 4,797
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9/3/2014 5:37:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Haha, GG. Drafterman was the brain behind of all the strategic lynches mafia made in this game, so MVP definitely goes to him. I've shown I'm decent at getting people to town read me as scum and tp, but without a solid mafia strategist to direct my actions in the long term, I tend to be rash, Drafter counteracted that perfectly. Without him, we may not have won.

Town MVP is also agreeably Lucky.. even after he flipped I still thought he was LD. >__<
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
Daltonian
Posts: 4,797
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9/3/2014 5:39:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/3/2014 3:10:29 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 9/2/2014 11:03:02 PM, trekie wrote:
Daltonian wrote:
BTW: I'm going to soft claim that my character is Generation 1 and (to my knowledge) has never appeared in any of the major Transformers films.
Actually, lemme clarify this:
A character that has the same name as me has appeared in the movies, but I haven't.
Ok guys, forget my soft claim. I made a mistake and thought I was the wrong character.
There are multiple characters with the same name and I thought I was the wrong one.
I'm not G1 and I have appeared in the film >.<
No, not yet. I softed that my character appears in the films and that there are multiple characters that share my name (after some confusion about who I actually was)
I'd say I'm G1 as well, but I'm not really sure. There are a lot of variants of my character and one of them is definitely G1 according to the wikipedia page.
IDW Comics. Why?
I am Arcee, Chromia, and Elita-one, JOAT, for whomever is compiling a claims list
I am three autobot sisters that merge together to form one autobot.
They do combine. It doesn't explicitly say the combine in my role PM, but I assumed they did because things like this were the top result when I googled it
- Dalt, making that character claim up as he goes along.

Thank you all for playing! I hope everybody had some fun.

That...
I'm not sure whether that's sad or absolutely hilarious.
lol
there was so much fluff in all of these DP's that I could say close to anything I want and people wouldn't really notice, every mafia fatally slipped at at least one point and nobody ever noticed. :')
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
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9/3/2014 5:43:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/3/2014 5:37:48 AM, Daltonian wrote:
Haha, GG. Drafterman was the brain behind of all the strategic lynches mafia made in this game, so MVP definitely goes to him. I've shown I'm decent at getting people to town read me as scum and tp, but without a solid mafia strategist to direct my actions in the long term, I tend to be rash, Drafter counteracted that perfectly. Without him, we may not have won.

Town MVP is also agreeably Lucky.. even after he flipped I still thought he was LD. >__<

How to read Mestari's claims: the first two things he claims are never true. He's also always scum, especially if he's town.
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TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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9/3/2014 6:06:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I thought this was an excellent game with interesting twists and turns. I think the Mafia had a particular challenge with the inactivity Josh. While Endark did well in compensating for that, had Josh been active and claimed sooner, he might not have been on anyone's scum list... ever.

Dalton, for being relatively new, you did well. I hope this game has illustrated the importance of simplicity and only lying when needed to. If the Town was paying attention (and not clogging DP1 with useless drivel), then they would have caught and remembered those string of mistakes. Combined with the complexity of your character claim later, that would have been a lynch. Thankfully, Town decided that self-voting was, somehow, a high-utility strategy.

Lucky, Maikuru, and TUF made the game particularly hard for us, both with good town play and being recruited into the Masons. While Lucky's gambit made us scramble a bit, I'm not sure if it ended up being a net-advantage for Town; Yes, I ended up having to be bussed, but had prepared for my death since NP1 (I was fully expecting to get vigged or copped, and we were already trying to work that to our advantage). We knew we had to bus me and planned it out well in advance, which is why it was pulled off so well, buying Dalton some serious (if temporary) Town-cred.

I hope this illustrates to Town the danger of TPs, even when they joint win. Everything I said about FT/Mikal appears to have been validated (not to mention Endark(1)). He wasn't going to play pro-town if it contradicted his win condition. Ultimately he did not end up deciding the game, but only because TN05 miscalculated the number of scum and thought self-voting was a good idea.

This was a fun game, and I thank trekie for hosting.
TUF
Posts: 21,309
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9/3/2014 7:31:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Fun game, good job mafia, dalt, drafter, danielle.

Regrets in this game:

1. As trekie pointed out, hinting at my role way harder than I should have DP1.
2. Not being as caught up as I could have been after DP2.
3. Not being online to steer the lynch away from XLAV DP5.
4. Forgetting my theory that TN05 could be carrying out night kills for the mafia. (derp) and using my results to confirm XLAV and lucky's to confirm ford (though oddly enough they were both town anyway).

The masons was fun, and it was nice to hear some of maikuru's and lucky's feedback about the game. Their thoughts and ideas made the game a little easier, especially knowing that they were strong players and confirmed townies. I definitely could have used our mason PM as a tool with much more utility though, and inactivity kind of ruined my helpfulness to them. Thanks guys for the assistance anyways!
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
Posts: 21,309
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9/3/2014 7:32:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/2/2014 11:06:42 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
YYW's lynch should NEVER have happened. That was a true failing on the town's part, and they totally deserved to lose after that.

I had a feeling that the first thing you would do come endgame would be to steal credit about the one thing you happened to be right about the entire game. lol I even mentioned this to mikal and lucky last night before the endgame that you would jump in and say this.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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9/3/2014 7:49:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/2/2014 11:28:23 PM, bsh1 wrote:
GG

Congrats to mafia + TP on their victory. Thanks to trekie as well. Hydra-ing was certainly an interesting experience; and this game certainly got me involved.

Well, let's congratulate Lucky for handing it to them... lol.
Tsar of DDO
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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9/3/2014 7:53:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/3/2014 7:49:52 AM, YYW wrote:
At 9/2/2014 11:28:23 PM, bsh1 wrote:
GG

Congrats to mafia + TP on their victory. Thanks to trekie as well. Hydra-ing was certainly an interesting experience; and this game certainly got me involved.

Well, let's congratulate Lucky for handing it to them... lol.

Actually I was going to thank you. Without you as a distraction I think the Masons group would have had an easier time uniting Town against their scum reads.
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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9/3/2014 7:54:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/2/2014 11:06:42 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
YYW's lynch should NEVER have happened. That was a true failing on the town's part, and they totally deserved to lose after that.

I agree.

Lucky's mass lie detect claim was a fun idea, but I knew exactly what he was doing right away. I imagine the mafia did as well. The claim was too ridiculous. I think a normal lie detector fake-claim would have been more effective, i.e. more believable and thus more likely to cause mafia to claim their actual character/role.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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9/3/2014 7:55:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/3/2014 7:53:28 AM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 9/3/2014 7:49:52 AM, YYW wrote:
At 9/2/2014 11:28:23 PM, bsh1 wrote:
GG

Congrats to mafia + TP on their victory. Thanks to trekie as well. Hydra-ing was certainly an interesting experience; and this game certainly got me involved.

Well, let's congratulate Lucky for handing it to them... lol.

Actually I was going to thank you. Without you as a distraction I think the Masons group would have had an easier time uniting Town against their scum reads.

The problem was that everyone was convinced that my reads were bad, so they found ways to look around them. That was a very bad mistake on their part, but it is what it is.

FT is right, though. Town deserved to lose.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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9/3/2014 7:58:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/3/2014 7:32:52 AM, TUF wrote:
At 9/2/2014 11:06:42 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
YYW's lynch should NEVER have happened. That was a true failing on the town's part, and they totally deserved to lose after that.

I had a feeling that the first thing you would do come endgame would be to steal credit about the one thing you happened to be right about the entire game. lol I even mentioned this to mikal and lucky last night before the endgame that you would jump in and say this.

Except, he was right -and I would have figured out who the rest of scum were as time went on.
Tsar of DDO