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Themeless Mafia Endgame

TUF
Posts: 21,309
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9/17/2014 7:45:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
List of all roles in the game:

https://docs.google.com...

List of all Night Actions:

https://docs.google.com...

Mafia MVP:

I would say TN05, though I think Zaradi comes in close second. TN05 took on the leadership role within the mafia from the game start and made a lot of the hard decisions. Late game, there was some dispute between whether or not a quick hammer should be made, but zaradi was careful, calm and decisive about every action which may or may not have saved the mafia from attempting a hammer and failing. In the end, The two were great in the mafia PM.

Town MVP:

After careful consideration, I don't know really who to award this to, so I will mention a couple names. Lucky I think at least deserves some mention however. Besides making the wrong decision about khaos, and not trusting mikal, He played pretty pro-town the entire game. He put a lot of careful decision making into all his actions, and was able to successfully fly under the radar without claiming his role until he had protection on him. TGAP also played really well. After he finally considered the possibility of budda being scum, a lot of his reads were accurate. He even called out the entire scum team right after he died, which I definitely think is worth mentioning. His death I think, is what ended this game for the town.

Favorite quotes in the game:

Budda: http://www.debate.org...

"So some initial reads:

Adam Townier than rice is white.

Lucky in typical fashion, i wanted to scum-read him. But then i remembered that when i scum-read him, he's town. So I'm town-reading him... but whenever i town-read lucky he's scum, so i have to scum-read him. But that just means he's town... which means he's scum, which inevitably leads me to conclude he's town. Which forces me to acknowledge that he's scum. But that just leads me to presume he's town, which in turn brings me to the realization that he's scum, which just makes me think he's...

*walks away while still mumbling about Lucky's affiliation*
"

Yama: (in a his PM)

"Why do you tease me like this? I can't do jacksh*t.
But if it could, it would be glorious.
Imagine it... Yama with unlimited power.
Godlike abilities in the hands of YAMA!
I'd be capable of unimaginable power!
To rain Fires from above,
Tremors from below,
and Floods all around.
I could even kill with just a thought.
*Snaps Fingers*
Like that!
Lower men would use that power to terrorize the populace.
But that's thinking too small.
Why.. I could hold the power to bend time and space!
Nay! To recreate the very fabric of reality in my image!
I'd be.
DEUS EX!
THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA!
I'd have THE POWER OF GOD!
*Evil Laugh + Lightning*
"

There were more but I can't remember where they were.

Some final thoughts about the game:

The town was pretty powerful. The mafia got really luck in several aspects. The first was the town's every night protective role royally messsing up DP1, and the second was the town's investigative role being recruited NP1. Even then the town still had a seraph, a gun smith, a mason, and a preventer (which I guess technically hurts the town mason as well), an innocent child and a double voter. I tried to balance out a lot of the roles so they weren't too powerful. For example:

The mafia had a recruit, but they could refuse to kill during the night they recruited to make the person appear innocent upon death (which REALLY helped them late game with daltonian).

They had a copy cat, but in order for his role to work, the person he copied had to be dead. Given that this was one of their scum buddies, this meant less mafia numbers.

The innocent Child was also hated. The every night protective role, was also a roleblocker.

Alright, so balance-se what do you think? Danielle had agreed that the game was balanced, but what do you guys think?
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Lucky_Luciano
Posts: 4,350
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9/17/2014 7:53:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Stop mentioning me in the MVPs! I haven't been in contention for MVP either game. I lost the game for the town in both! Maikuru/Tulle were MVP of Transformers and Drafter was MVP of this game.
"Age is not important" - Airmax 2014
"Australia... is that a place?" - Airmax 2014
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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9/17/2014 8:07:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/17/2014 7:45:23 PM, TUF wrote:
List of all roles in the game:

https://docs.google.com...

List of all Night Actions:

https://docs.google.com...

Mafia MVP:

I would say TN05, though I think Zaradi comes in close second. TN05 took on the leadership role within the mafia from the game start and made a lot of the hard decisions. Late game, there was some dispute between whether or not a quick hammer should be made, but zaradi was careful, calm and decisive about every action which may or may not have saved the mafia from attempting a hammer and failing. In the end, The two were great in the mafia PM.

First mafia win and first MVP! :D

Town MVP:

After careful consideration, I don't know really who to award this to, so I will mention a couple names. Lucky I think at least deserves some mention however. Besides making the wrong decision about khaos, and not trusting mikal, He played pretty pro-town the entire game. He put a lot of careful decision making into all his actions, and was able to successfully fly under the radar without claiming his role until he had protection on him. TGAP also played really well. After he finally considered the possibility of budda being scum, a lot of his reads were accurate. He even called out the entire scum team right after he died, which I definitely think is worth mentioning. His death I think, is what ended this game for the town.

Drafterman did a pretty good job too, IMO.

Favorite quotes in the game:

Budda: http://www.debate.org...

"So some initial reads:

Adam Townier than rice is white.

Lucky in typical fashion, i wanted to scum-read him. But then i remembered that when i scum-read him, he's town. So I'm town-reading him... but whenever i town-read lucky he's scum, so i have to scum-read him. But that just means he's town... which means he's scum, which inevitably leads me to conclude he's town. Which forces me to acknowledge that he's scum. But that just leads me to presume he's town, which in turn brings me to the realization that he's scum, which just makes me think he's...

*walks away while still mumbling about Lucky's affiliation*
"

Yama: (in a his PM)

"Why do you tease me like this? I can't do jacksh*t.
But if it could, it would be glorious.
Imagine it... Yama with unlimited power.
Godlike abilities in the hands of YAMA!
I'd be capable of unimaginable power!
To rain Fires from above,
Tremors from below,
and Floods all around.
I could even kill with just a thought.
*Snaps Fingers*
Like that!
Lower men would use that power to terrorize the populace.
But that's thinking too small.
Why.. I could hold the power to bend time and space!
Nay! To recreate the very fabric of reality in my image!
I'd be.
DEUS EX!
THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA!
I'd have THE POWER OF GOD!
*Evil Laugh + Lightning*
"

There were more but I can't remember where they were.

Lol.

Some final thoughts about the game:

The town was pretty powerful. The mafia got really luck in several aspects. The first was the town's every night protective role royally messsing up DP1, and the second was the town's investigative role being recruited NP1. Even then the town still had a seraph, a gun smith, a mason, and a preventer (which I guess technically hurts the town mason as well), an innocent child and a double voter. I tried to balance out a lot of the roles so they weren't too powerful. For example:

The mafia had a recruit, but they could refuse to kill during the night they recruited to make the person appear innocent upon death (which REALLY helped them late game with daltonian).

That was a great balancing role IMO. We could have won without it, but it was a worthwhile risk to take.

They had a copy cat, but in order for his role to work, the person he copied had to be dead. Given that this was one of their scum buddies, this meant less mafia numbers.

The innocent Child was also hated. The every night protective role, was also a roleblocker.


Alright, so balance-se what do you think? Danielle had agreed that the game was balanced, but what do you guys think?

I think it was pretty evenly-balanced.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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9/17/2014 8:09:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
And, for the record, I was completely truthful about the catalyst for my push of the Adam lynch DP1. I pushed that lynch exactly as I would have if I was town.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/17/2014 8:16:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
So, Lucky or TUF, what was up with this "if only Khaos would ask" jazz?

Balance seemed fine, although I think mafia may have been a bit underpowered. But, town did have 2-3 potential mislynches.
My work here is, finally, done.
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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9/17/2014 8:22:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/17/2014 8:09:38 PM, TN05 wrote:
And, for the record, I was completely truthful about the catalyst for my push of the Adam lynch DP1. I pushed that lynch exactly as I would have if I was town.

I can't remember exactly why, but I recall scum reading you before that, along with 9space.

Scum played things well, this game.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/17/2014 8:25:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If you survive until DP4, you will be publicly mod confirmed under whatever affiliation you have at the time

Is this not justified to assume conversion? At least to suggest it?
Fvck you, Budda.
My work here is, finally, done.
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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9/17/2014 8:28:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/17/2014 8:25:31 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
If you survive until DP4, you will be publicly mod confirmed under whatever affiliation you have at the time

Is this not justified to assume conversion? At least to suggest it?

No.

Fvck you, Budda.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/17/2014 8:38:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/17/2014 8:28:27 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 9/17/2014 8:25:31 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
If you survive until DP4, you will be publicly mod confirmed under whatever affiliation you have at the time

Is this not justified to assume conversion? At least to suggest it?

No.

I'd agree, if it had ever been seen before.
That's why I likened it to your town win-cons, and backed off, until Bullish claimed.
My work here is, finally, done.
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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9/17/2014 8:40:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/17/2014 8:38:50 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/17/2014 8:28:27 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 9/17/2014 8:25:31 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
If you survive until DP4, you will be publicly mod confirmed under whatever affiliation you have at the time

Is this not justified to assume conversion? At least to suggest it?

No.

I'd agree, if it had ever been seen before.
That's why I likened it to your town win-cons, and backed off, until Bullish claimed.

Don't get me wrong. Ultimately you were right.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/17/2014 8:45:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/17/2014 8:40:45 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 9/17/2014 8:38:50 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/17/2014 8:28:27 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 9/17/2014 8:25:31 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
If you survive until DP4, you will be publicly mod confirmed under whatever affiliation you have at the time

Is this not justified to assume conversion? At least to suggest it?

No.

I'd agree, if it had ever been seen before.
That's why I likened it to your town win-cons, and backed off, until Bullish claimed.

Don't get me wrong. Ultimately you were right.

But, are you really saying that if every game a role is stated as X, and then it changes unannounced and dramatically in one game, that isn't going to seem odd? Isn't it my duty to at least present it as a possibility?

When you changed your wincons, you stated it beforehand. This was not the case.
If the next game he mods and IC says that, then it means nothing.
My work here is, finally, done.
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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9/17/2014 8:45:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I was right! My first correct scum read. TN was scum!
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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9/17/2014 8:49:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/17/2014 8:45:27 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I was right! My first correct scum read. TN was scum!

And yet you never voted for him. Why? I kept pressuring you and pressuring you to go with your read and you never did. Why?
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/17/2014 8:49:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Also, this game would have been much more enjoyable if Mikal wasn't there and Lucky wasn't fighting with me the whole game.
I was too preoccupied with that nonsense and hypocrisy to focus on much else. Sorry team.
My work here is, finally, done.
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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9/17/2014 8:49:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/17/2014 8:45:26 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/17/2014 8:40:45 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 9/17/2014 8:38:50 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/17/2014 8:28:27 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 9/17/2014 8:25:31 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
If you survive until DP4, you will be publicly mod confirmed under whatever affiliation you have at the time

Is this not justified to assume conversion? At least to suggest it?

No.

I'd agree, if it had ever been seen before.
That's why I likened it to your town win-cons, and backed off, until Bullish claimed.

Don't get me wrong. Ultimately you were right.

But, are you really saying that if every game a role is stated as X, and then it changes unannounced and dramatically in one game, that isn't going to seem odd? Isn't it my duty to at least present it as a possibility?

How many times have you gotten hated innocent townie to make that assessment?


When you changed your wincons, you stated it beforehand. This was not the case.
If the next game he mods and IC says that, then it means nothing.
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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9/17/2014 8:51:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/17/2014 8:49:02 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 9/17/2014 8:45:27 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I was right! My first correct scum read. TN was scum!

And yet you never voted for him. Why? I kept pressuring you and pressuring you to go with your read and you never did. Why?

Wouldn't have gotten anywhere. Everyone had a hard on for Adam as scum. Looking back on it, I don't regret my vote.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/17/2014 8:52:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/17/2014 8:49:50 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:

How many times have you gotten hated innocent townie to make that assessment?
True.
But, it seemed balanced, as I was anti-town, anti-mafia. I just should have lynched myself DP1...or hid the hated part. I just played bad from the get go.

Why did you tell me to shoot Lucky? (trusting my gut)
Did you scum read him at the time?
My work here is, finally, done.
Daltonian
Posts: 4,797
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9/17/2014 8:55:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm on a scum win streak.. .___.

OITNB
Transformers
Themeless

TN05 for MVP if we were to pick one, though to be honest the scum team was less so responsible for the outcome of the game than the bizarreness of town's actions. We only really came together to talk about night actions; we had no united strategy.

GG everyone.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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9/17/2014 8:55:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/17/2014 8:51:59 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 9/17/2014 8:49:02 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 9/17/2014 8:45:27 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I was right! My first correct scum read. TN was scum!

And yet you never voted for him. Why? I kept pressuring you and pressuring you to go with your read and you never did. Why?

Wouldn't have gotten anywhere. Everyone had a hard on for Adam as scum. Looking back on it, I don't regret my vote.

You should. Sometimes all it takes is one person to change their vote. It also doesn't explain why you didn't pursue that read in subsequent DPs.
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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9/17/2014 8:57:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/17/2014 8:52:32 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/17/2014 8:49:50 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:

How many times have you gotten hated innocent townie to make that assessment?
True.
But, it seemed balanced, as I was anti-town, anti-mafia. I just should have lynched myself DP1...or hid the hated part. I just played bad from the get go.


Why did you tell me to shoot Lucky? (trusting my gut)
Did you scum read him at the time?

I didn't know you were going to shoot lucky. Mainly I just wanted people to stop griping about the gun. But if you have the power, why not use it?
Bullish
Posts: 3,527
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9/17/2014 9:33:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Once again, Bullish calls everything then loses the game.

Me calling out both TN05 and 9space (#209): http://www.debate.org...

Me questioning why the fck would zaradi agree to copying a fckin miller (#83): http://www.debate.org...

Me calling out Kreig's obv slip (#337): http://www.debate.org...

The only other scum read I had was between TGAP and Budda.

G.G.

This game was balanced, but town made some really stupid moves, and the usual role distribution meta screwed us up majorly. I still don't understand why bsh1 didn't CC.
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