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Smaller Mafia Games?

TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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10/1/2014 8:32:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I did a cursory analysis of the past few games to get a hold on player activity levels. I've seen a rash of inactive players and replacements being needed.

It looks like once you get beyond 12 players, you start running into significant inactivity. We all know Mafia activity ebbs and flows and I think we're in a ebb period. I know it's nice to run 20 player games like we used to, but I think mods should seriously consider designing their games around 10-12 players.
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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10/1/2014 8:38:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I agree. I've got a 10 player set-up in the works. They're quick, easier to mod, and easier to control in terms of who participates.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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10/1/2014 9:01:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I think an important factor to consider is the regularity of inactives.
Some players are low activity and/or often replace out.

Mods need to be more selective of their players, IMO.
The only reason I started my last game was because half the roster signed up in one day, so I struck while the iron was hot.
My work here is, finally, done.
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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10/1/2014 9:07:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/1/2014 8:38:20 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I agree. I've got a 10 player set-up in the works. They're quick, easier to mod, and easier to control in terms of who participates.

I'm currently redesigning all my games to be 10 players.
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,450
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10/1/2014 9:27:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Lmao, coincidentally the custom theme game i have made up is an 11 man game XD. We all need to get out of each others heads
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,450
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10/1/2014 9:32:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Though Khaos, the issue i see with vetting players in regular games is it excludes players who want to play at its base. Idk, maybe if we "tiered" games. Wherein certain games had X time for DP's and NP's, and certain games had Y time for DP's and NP's, and certain games had Z time for DP's and NP's.

This way less active players could still play in games, while more active players could get their fix in the standard DDO 48-72 hour DP's.

Like say:

48-72 hour DP's(2-3 days)

96-120 hour DP's(4-5)

144-168 hour DP's(6-7 days)
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,450
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10/1/2014 9:35:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Cause excluding players from games imo, is counter-intuitive to working on the issue of total player base. Sure its nice to have games full of active players, but if its at the cost of losing players from the community, imo, we should look for alternatived to remedy the issue
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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10/1/2014 9:39:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/1/2014 9:32:30 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
Though Khaos, the issue i see with vetting players in regular games is it excludes players who want to play at its base. Idk, maybe if we "tiered" games. Wherein certain games had X time for DP's and NP's, and certain games had Y time for DP's and NP's, and certain games had Z time for DP's and NP's.

This way less active players could still play in games, while more active players could get their fix in the standard DDO 48-72 hour DP's.

Like say:

48-72 hour DP's(2-3 days)

96-120 hour DP's(4-5)

144-168 hour DP's(6-7 days)

I don't think time is the issue for most players that are replaced.
Could be for TUF and a few others, but I think a few players sign up and either get bored or quit and are replaced. Things come up here and there, but people like TA, TDK, and TV seem to constantly need to be replaced, while Lannan and trekkie are just low activity. Zaradi, too, is spotty.
Perhaps I am wrong and more time will be the cure, but I doubt it. If time is the cure, then maybe DPs that are still normal (2-3 days), but only on, say the weekend would work.
My work here is, finally, done.
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,450
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10/1/2014 9:51:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The more time there is in DP's imo, the more chance there will be for those that are consistently inactive to participate.

There is bound to be adjustment pains of course. As longer DP's would necessitate a change in playstyle. Less frequent posts to minimize size, with more of a focus on thoughtful analysis.

Players such as myself, or you, who post quite a bit would not be good fits at our current playstyle(large quantities of posts) but players such as TV, 9space, XLAV, etc. who do not post as frequently, would be good fits for extended DP's.

Again, the solution shouldnt be to force people to accomodate towards a certain playstyle or activity level. Rather, the games should be geared towards those players style and activity levels.

Lower activity community members tend to have their posts drowned out in the plethora of posts from more active members, imo, and this is something that should be remedied. As well as certain community members just straight up not having the patience to sort through hundreds upon hundreds of posts made in a short 1-2 day span of time
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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10/2/2014 5:58:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/1/2014 9:01:43 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I think an important factor to consider is the regularity of inactives.
Some players are low activity and/or often replace out.

Mods need to be more selective of their players, IMO.
The only reason I started my last game was because half the roster signed up in one day, so I struck while the iron was hot.

That's basically the same thing. It's not that simply more players = less activity, but rather, the more players you have, the more likely you are to have players who are inactive. By having smaller games *and* excluding inactive players, we can remedy that.
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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10/2/2014 6:07:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/1/2014 9:32:30 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
Though Khaos, the issue i see with vetting players in regular games is it excludes players who want to play at its base. Idk, maybe if we "tiered" games. Wherein certain games had X time for DP's and NP's, and certain games had Y time for DP's and NP's, and certain games had Z time for DP's and NP's.

This way less active players could still play in games, while more active players could get their fix in the standard DDO 48-72 hour DP's.

Like say:

48-72 hour DP's(2-3 days)

96-120 hour DP's(4-5)

144-168 hour DP's(6-7 days)

But I don't think that'll resolve anything. People who are chronically inactive are unaffected by the length of the DPs. We're not talking like TUF, who may be unavailable, but when he comes in actually participates. The difference between trekie and lannan is, when trekie participates, you get:

"I think drafter is right in that if Adam is town and isn't lying then it's more unlikely that animals only had one predetermined role. Otherwise, the only reason I could see for allowing scum to get miller by chance is the foreknowledge that there isn't a legit town miller in the game to CC. That being said I still don't see why a bat would be miller in the first place. While there are likely animal/role pairs where the connection is less obvious I don't think there wouldn't be any connection at all."

And when lannan participates, you get:

"VTNL

I really see no other option here."

And I don't think changing the length of the DP is going to change that. Yes, it'll let people in crazy time zones participate more, but people who simply don't participate aren't going to be motivated to do so more. The relative activity will remain the same (because active people will continue to post). So a shorter DP basically means they probably don't post at all and a longer one means they have more to sift through when they deign to post.

I know people don't like the idea of excluding people, but it's hurting the games. It frustrates the players. It frustrates the mods. It stretches days out as players wait around for inactives to participate. It stretches nights out as mods wait for inactives to submit night actions. Inactives contribute less and are impossible to read.

I don't really think there is any excuse. New people should play beginners games and if you've played a beginner's game then you have an idea of the commitment requirement to play this game.
TUF
Posts: 21,309
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10/2/2014 6:41:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I wouldn't be opposed to longer day phases, in fact I think I would like it. But player meta on DDO I don't think would have it matter anyway. After a certain point the DP becomes really spammy. On mafiascum for example the DPs can go like 300 to 400 posts and last for weeks still. I'd like to be able to play a game like that sometime. But most of the active players tend to push games by a little faster here.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
Posts: 21,309
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10/2/2014 6:42:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Back on topic though, I don't mind smaller games either. I was going to do a 10 to 12 person game for themeless originally but it looked like there were plenty of active members at the time to squeeze in a few more spots.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227