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Why We Live Mafia - Endgame

Bullish
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11/6/2014 4:36:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Town

"You can live to be a hundred if you give up all the things that make you want to live to be a hundred." -- Woody Allen

Mortsdor - HEDONISM - What is the intrinsic good? Well, ask yourself, what do you want? Pleasure! Even masochists whip themselves for pleasure. Rather inefficient, but still for pleasure. You pursuit cannot be more simple.

-You are vanilla.

"How selfish soever man may be supposed, there are evidently some principles in his nature, which interest him in the fortune of others, and render their happiness necessary to him, though he derives nothing from it, except the pleasure of seeing it." -- Adam Smith

Geographia - ALTRUISM - You practice involved and selfish concern for the well-being of others. That"s great, since you are one more person the rest of us can exploit, at your own pleasure. You help others, ultimately at the cost of benefiting yourself. You better wish the person you help is better than you.

-You are the bodyguard.

"If you look for perfection, you'll never be content." -- Leo Tolstoy

Daltonian - PERFECTIONISM - Perfection is ambiguous, and perhaps unachievable. But that doesn"t stop you from striving. Sometimes you try too hard, and when you fail it sucks.

-You are the compulsory JOAT. Each night, you must choose to vig, cop, or doc 1 player; however, if you vig town, cop town, or doc someone not targeted to die, you lose that ability. If your role fails you also lose it.

"Nature has placed mankind under the governance of two sovereign masters, pain and pleasure. It is for them alone to point out what we ought to do, as well as to determine what we shall do... They govern us in all we do, in all we say, in all we think ..." -- Jeremy Bentham

Wylted - UTILITARIANISM - Objective morality is summed as: maximize utility. You are elegant, and true. Utilitarianism is so awesome that you get no role.

-You are vanilla.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich." -- Napoleon Bonaparte

9spaceking - RELIGION - you can thank god I didn"t make you organized religion, but why would you thank god when you can thank me? Similarly, when people come to confess their sins to you, you should also thank me.

-You are the odd-night priest. You are informed of all the roles (but not who) that visit you.
-You are the even-night watcher.

"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." -- Socrates

Khaos_Mage - KNOWLEDGE - the pursuit of knowledge is the highest of endeavors. What would you do, if you don"t know what to do? How can you do, if you don"t know how to do? Why would you do, if you don"t know why to do?

-You are the cop.

"It is interesting to contemplate... and to reflect that these elaborately constructed forms, so different from each other, and dependent on each other in so complex a manner, have all been produced by laws acting around us. These laws, taken in the largest sense, being Growth with Reproduction..." -- Charles Darwin

Lannan13 - REPRODUCTION - reproduction is the ultimate tool of survival.

-You have a regenerative BP. At the end of every night, you generate a vest if 1) you did not receive a vest the previous night AND 2) you were not shot the previous night (max 3 vests); you are informed if shot. You start with no vest.

"We are on strike against those who believe that one man must exist for the sake of another. We are on strike against the morality of cannibals, be it practiced in body or in spirit. We will not deal with men on any terms but ours -- and our terms are a moral code which holds that man is an end in himself and not the means to any end of others." -- Ayn Rand

VelCrow - EGOTISM - you live for yourself.

-You are vanilla.

"It is only by way of pain one arrives at pleasure"-- Marquis de Sade

ford_prefect - SADISM - you live for the detriment of others. You torture for enjoyment. You are the pinnacle of negative utility.

-You are the miller.

You win with the town.
0x5f3759df
Bullish
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11/6/2014 4:37:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Mafia

"For why has the advent of nihilism become necessary? Because the values we have had hitherto thus draw their final consequence; because nihilism represents the ultimate logical conclusion of our great values and ideals -- because we must experience nihilism before we can find out what value these "values" really had." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

XLAV - NIHILISM - we live for nothing.

-You are the ninja. When you perform kills, you cannot be seen.
-You are the ascetic; non-lethal roles fail if they target you.

Beginner - MEANINGLESSNESS - life has no meaning.

-You have 3 types of roleblocking; each night, you may choose 1 and use it; they are all unlimited shot:
1. You may roleblock someone.
2. You may disable someone"s passive role (does not work at Day).
3. You may make your target reflexively roleblock all actions except for this one.
All mafia roleblocks resolves before town roles if conflict arises.

Danielle - ANTI-NATALISM - you believe that the act of living is anti-utility.

-You are hated; you require 1 vote less to lynch.
-You are the hate-spreader. Each NP, you may target a player, and that player will require 1 less vote to lynch for the rest of the game; that player is informed. However, every time you use this ability, you yourself require 1 less vote to lynch (this is cumulative, so it is possible to instantly die if your required votes drops to <=0; death in this manner counts as a DP); after you die, vote effects are removed. Nothing shows up in vote counts.
-Each NP, you may bind yourself to another player. If you die that NP or the next DP, that player dies as well. Target is not informed.

You win when you have eliminated all the non-mafia or if there is nothing that can stop this from occurring.
0x5f3759df
Bullish
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11/6/2014 5:01:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Actions

Pre-game
Mafia:

Danielle binds Khaos.

Commentary: I accidentally included Geo's role in Wylted's PM title. I compensated Mafia with the knowledge that Geo has the slipped role, without telling them of the actual altruism role.

DP1 lynch Beginner.

Commentary: the fact that Beginner died was a huge set back for the mafia. Beginner is easily the most powerful role for the mafia. It's a shame that he was lynched for inactivity.

Khaos did in fact ask me whether he was flavored or not, and I told him no. This is because I have policy guiding my modding practices. See below.


NP1
Town:

Dalt cops Wylted "innocent".
9space priest no results.
Geo guards Khaos.
Khaos cops Geo "innocent".

Mafia

XLAV NK Geo.
Danielle binds Wylted.

Commentary: that both cops investigated the two connected townies is interesting.

DP2 no lynch.
Commentary: First, I messed up Beginner's summary character. So I compensated mafia by saying that there is no "virtue ethics" role and there is a cop.

Danielle claimed cop as "wing it" strategy. Didn't really work out.

Khaos asked me for my opinion on his fake cop results gambit. I am against town gambits in general, because I believe town should keep things simple because the town will usually be more confused by town gambits than mafia. The result of that gambit didn't turn out so bad, but it could have been very bad if Dalt was lynched.


NP2
Town:

Dalt vigs Danielle.
9space watches Khaos no results.
Khaos cops mort "innocent".
Lannan receives 1xBP.

Mafia:

Wylted NK Khaos.
Danielle binds mort.

DP3 lynch 9space.

NP3
Town:

Dalt vig XLAV.

Commentary: and Dalt kills 2 mafia.
0x5f3759df
Bullish
Posts: 3,527
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11/6/2014 5:10:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The game was meant to be not as role reliant as some of the other DDO games. It was meant to be simple, as stated in the sign-ups. That is why there were 3 vanillas. The roles all fit the characters.

The 2 cops was supposed to cancelled out the miller, the mafia ascetic, and the fact that the rolebocker/stopper could effectively deny the cops results.

Danielle's primary active role is suppose to give mafia the advantage at 3-2 LyLo, but it was really limited in that respect. The second role is essentially a hunter/vengence role with slightly less flexibility.

Town may have been slightly favored, but not as much as it may have seemed since Beginner died early.

Give feedback.

HERE IS MY MODDING GUIDLINES FOR REFERENCE:

20141012 Mod promise modification (from http://www.debate.org...)
Bullish Modding Practices
-If there are role flavors, it will be state publicly that there are flavors.
-No Cults.
-No Jesters.
-No more than 25%[ceiling] of players can possibly die in one DP/NP cycle, unless that number is less than 4.
-Guaranteed randomness in affiliation and role distribution.
-The game has a 90%+ chance of ending within sqrt(player count) DP/NP cycles if the all roles were used accordingly randomly.
-If there is an abnormal mechanic I will state that there is an abnormal mechanic.
0x5f3759df
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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11/6/2014 5:10:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/6/2014 4:52:38 PM, XLAV wrote:
Lol, dammit Dalt.

Shouldn't have killed me.
I probably would have had your back until the LYLO.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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11/6/2014 5:13:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/6/2014 5:12:18 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
Nice work Khaos and Dalt.

Meh, it was mostly luck on my end.
If Beginner was truly busy, we lucked out.
Danielle's cop gambit was funny, though.
My work here is, finally, done.
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,142
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11/6/2014 5:15:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/6/2014 5:13:51 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 11/6/2014 5:12:18 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
Nice work Khaos and Dalt.

Meh, it was mostly luck on my end.
If Beginner was truly busy, we lucked out.
Danielle's cop gambit was funny, though.

I agree lynching Beginner was luck, but I thought your gambit took out Danielle perfectly. Those two things won us the game. Dalt iced it with the vig on XLAV
XLAV
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11/6/2014 5:27:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/6/2014 5:10:51 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 11/6/2014 4:52:38 PM, XLAV wrote:
Lol, dammit Dalt.

Shouldn't have killed me.
I probably would have had your back until the LYLO.

We were so inactive. So inactive, I'm the most active of the inactives.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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11/6/2014 5:27:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The game seemed balanced and was fun....well, I guess it kind of wasn't, since I hate being cop and the inactivity was downright unpleasant.

I do think the asectic claim was a sore thumb in hindsight (or maybe if I was paying attention). I think a bus driver ninja would have been better. There wasn't even a watcher/tracker was there?
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
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11/6/2014 5:29:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/6/2014 5:27:28 PM, XLAV wrote:
At 11/6/2014 5:10:51 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 11/6/2014 4:52:38 PM, XLAV wrote:
Lol, dammit Dalt.

Shouldn't have killed me.
I probably would have had your back until the LYLO.

We were so inactive. So inactive, I'm the most active of the inactives.

I suppose it wasn't a bad idea, since I was cop. But, you'd have been role confirmed.
My work here is, finally, done.
Daltonian
Posts: 4,797
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11/6/2014 6:29:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
GG everyone. The setup was overall balanced IMO. Mafia was disadvantaged in the fact that Beginner was picked off as the DP1 lynch, but that can be more attributed to bad luck than imbalance.

I'll admit that I was pretty peeved during the DP where Khaos pulled his gambit and I got really OMGUS~ish, but I think I compensated in vigging scum twice thereafter.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,142
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11/6/2014 8:50:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/6/2014 6:29:13 PM, Daltonian wrote:
GG everyone. The setup was overall balanced IMO. Mafia was disadvantaged in the fact that Beginner was picked off as the DP1 lynch, but that can be more attributed to bad luck than imbalance.

I'll admit that I was pretty peeved during the DP where Khaos pulled his gambit and I got really OMGUS~ish, but I think I compensated in vigging scum twice thereafter.

Danielle obviously needed to die. I give you props for killing XLAV though.
mortsdor
Posts: 1,181
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11/7/2014 7:07:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
kind of wondering why wylted NK'd khaos, and Danielle binded my first guy Hedonism

If dani had lived to the next DP she'd have been lynched straightaway for the false CC.
mortsdor
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11/7/2014 7:11:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/7/2014 7:07:41 AM, mortsdor wrote:
kind of wondering why *XLAV* NK'd khaos, and Danielle binded my first guy Hedonism

If dani had lived to the next DP she'd have been lynched straightaway for the false CC.

*correction, I guess...

I think there might be a typo in the listed NK actions
Bullish
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11/7/2014 7:16:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/7/2014 7:11:03 AM, mortsdor wrote:
At 11/7/2014 7:07:41 AM, mortsdor wrote:
kind of wondering why *XLAV* NK'd khaos, and Danielle binded my first guy Hedonism

If dani had lived to the next DP she'd have been lynched straightaway for the false CC.


*correction, I guess...


I think there might be a typo in the listed NK actions

Yes, NP2 mafia actions should say "XLAV NK Khaos."
0x5f3759df
mortsdor
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11/7/2014 8:13:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/6/2014 5:27:36 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
There wasn't even a watcher/tracker was there?

9space was 1/2 watcher
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,142
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11/7/2014 12:17:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Any thoughts on my fake claim? I didn't trust town to not lynch me if I had claimed sadism and miller
mortsdor
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11/7/2014 12:31:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/7/2014 12:17:37 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
Any thoughts on my fake claim? I didn't trust town to not lynch me if I had claimed sadism and miller

I can see why you fake claimed..

but I wouldn't have thought sadism was scummy in itself in this game (it provides a reason to do things)

though I could see why it'd be a miller.. it being Evil and all :P

- - -

The only way I way that I would've thought it was a bad claim would be that it would kind of overlap a bit with Hedonism... but I doubt it would've made me more suspicious of you than I had been with your claim of revenge.
mortsdor
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11/7/2014 12:33:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
also it fits rather well with miller,

I'd say you should've claimed early.
I pretty much always think millers should claim early.
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,142
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11/7/2014 1:02:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/7/2014 12:33:09 PM, mortsdor wrote:
also it fits rather well with miller,

I'd say you should've claimed early.
I pretty much always think millers should claim early.

It is SOP to claim miller DP1, but I thought I'd take a gamble this game. Partly to make my meta harder to read, partly because I thought with no strong leads on dp1, town might decide to tactical lynch me.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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11/8/2014 7:57:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I thought the game was pretty balanced. I liked the theme of this game because mafia weren't doomed from the start in coming up with a fake claim (but it was still a challenge). I binded myself to Wylted and mort who both claimed vanilla, as I didn't believe either of them were really vanilla. I decided to use my role as essentially a suicide bomber and just take out who I thought would have a role to harm the town. Matt really did go after me hard starting on DP1 for no reason though.
President of DDO