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DDO Mafia: Endgame

bsh1
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11/18/2014 11:25:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I hope you all enjoyed the game! Please wait until I've posted everything before commenting. Thanks :)

WINNER: Mafia
2ND PLACE: Town
3RD PLACE: Solo-Win Survivor
4TH PLACE: Third-party Survivors

Town MVP: Nymph
Mafia MVP: Khaos
Overall MVP: Khaos

MAFIA

Rev - You are ADREAMOFLIBERTY. Need I say bestiality and zoophilia? You are the WEREWOLF. On NP1, if you are still alive, you will be made aware of roughly 50% of all roles in the game (this includes roles you already know as a mafia member). I will round up if there is an odd number of total players. You win with the mafia.

[Popular, Gladiator, Vigilante, Vanilla, and Lightning Rod]

Blade - You are ROMANII. Friendly, a good debater, a mafia player, and a generally likable member, you are someone who did a little bit of everything on the site while you were here. Thus, you are the JOAT. You have the following 1x abilities:

- Framer: Make someone appear mafia-aligned to COPs
- Roleblocker: Block someone from using their role
- Bus Driver (Double Redirector): Select two players. Redirect Player A's action to Player B and vice versa
- Strongman: Bypass protective abilities when carrying out the mafia NK

You win with the mafia.

Khaos - You are IZBO10. As the king of trolls and so-called "toxic" members, your name is legend. Because of your status, you are the GODFATHER. You will appear town-aligned to COPs and you have the final say on the Mafia NK. You win with the mafia.

TOWN

Wylted (1) - You are MIKAL. You are incredibly protective of Rina, and I think that's extremely admirable. I feel sorry for the health of the idiot who chooses to annoy her or hurt her feelings. If this were the old South, I could totally see you dueling for her honor. Moreover, you have the physical fitness (I am *not* going to go on a tangent about your abs) to back up your protective instincts. Because you would take on anyone for her, one-on-one, you are the GLADIATOR. Once per game, and during a DP, you may declare gladiatorial combat, naming yourself and one player of your choosing as the gladiators. The vote count will be cleared and reset, and only you, your target, and VTNL will be votable. You win with the town.

Krieg - You are DAIRYGIRL4U2C. You are only noteworthy as the user with the most losses on DDO...not exactly the kind of thing you want to be noteworthy for. But, by the same token, you're not exactly a bad member, you don't spam the forum or start flame wars as far as I can tell. So, you're not really good or bad, which makes you VANILLA. You have no role. You win with the town.

Esocial - You are ESOCIALBOOKWORM. You have a very interesting, yet flattering, obsession with YYW and I. One of my best friends on the site, I always enjoy talking to you...though, when you "peek" as YYW and I flirt, I get this odd mental picture of you hiding behind a potted plant and watching as YYW and I make love. You just can't resist--when YYW and I flirt, it's like a magnet for you. Therefore, you are the Compulsive VOYEUR. Each night you MUST select a target. You will learn what, if any actions, were performed on your target. If you fail to select a target, one will be randomly chosen for you. You win with the town.

Geo - You are ENDARKENEDRATIONALIST. Your stories are captivating...they hold you hostage while your reading them, and--the funny thing is--you want to be abducted. It's like literary Stockholm Syndrome. Because you hold your readers captive with words, you are the JAILKEEPER. Each night you may select a player. That player will be protected from lethal actions, but will also be roleblocked. You win with the town.

Nymph - You are WRICHCIRW. You are probably one of the two members I dislike most on DDO (the other being JMK). And, I have this gut feeling you enjoying trying to provoke and anger me--once, you posted on a ton of my debates (most of which I won handily) explaining how I lost, despite the fact you knew O didn't want you near me. Because you seem to fish for chances to annoy me, you are the FISHERMAN. Each NP you may "fish" for role. You have a 50% chance of catching VANILLA, a 25% chance of catching BOOKIE, a 15% chance of catching BODYGUARD, and a 5% chance each of catching MOTIVATOR or DEPUTY. Roles must be used on the night they were caught or they will expire; they are all 1x for each time they're caught. You win with the town.

- Vanilla - No role
- Bookie - Select a player. You will be given a percentage (5, 25, 50, 75, or 95) of how likely it is that the selected player is scum
- Bodyguard - Select a player. Any lethal action aimed at them will be redirected to you
- Motivator - Select a player. They many now use their current night action an extra time
- Deputy - If the COP dies that night, you will permanently assume that power, forfeiting your current role

[Chances Determined By Character:

5% Chance of Scum

YYW
Bladerunner
Kbub
EndarkenedRationalist
Mafia No. 1 (Izbo10)

25% Chance of Scum

DairyGirl4u2c
Thett3
Mikal
Mafia No. 2 (Romanii)

50% Chance of Scum

CoolDudeBro
EsocialBookworm
TP

75% Chance of Scum

Khaos_Mage
A framed player = 95% chance scum to Bookies

95% Chance of Scum

AngelofDeath
Mafia No. 3 (ADOL)]


9space - You are THETT3. You talk a big game, Pirate King, but deep down you're one of the nicest, most generous, most caring people I know. I think Imabench put it best, actually, when he said: "Rumor has it that you would have to kill 14 puppies by stomping them to death to get Thett to dislike you, and 14 might be lowballing it." You are truly one of the most easily likeable people I know. Therefore, you are POPULAR. It takes one extra vote to lynch you. You win with the town.

Mort - You are YYW, love of my life, the center of my world, and I cannot wait to spend the rest of my life with you. You are most wonderful, sexy, kind, and sweet person to have ever sailed into my life. You have innumerable talents, and there is not a single issue where I don't value your advice and input highly. Therefore, you are the JOAT. You have three 2x abilities. You win with the town.

- Unblocker: Select a target. If they were roleblocked (this does not apply to passive people passively roleblocked, as with an ascetic), you will un-roleblock them.
- Rolestopper: Select a target. No other player may target them with non-lethal actions, essentially making your target an ascetic
- Kissing Booth: Like the fruit vendor, choose to give one player a kiss. You will visit this player. If you kiss scum, you die. If you kiss town, you will gain an additional 1x shot for either the Unblocker ability or the Rolestopper ability.

[Hidden Mod Note: Because you're always in bed with me, you only get up to do your action every now and then. Your actions have a 50% chance of success--i.e. you will only have a 50% chance of unblocking your target, and you will only rolestop 50% of actions aimed at your target.]

XLAV - You are COOLDUDEBRO. You are decent debater and a semi-frequent user of DDO. You are sort of archetypical of the average user of DDO, at least if we exclude the people who come, and then leave after a week or less. Therefore, you are VANILLA. You have no role. You win with the town.

Yama - You are KBUB. You are certainly a focal point of controversy--you never fail to speak your mind or to advocate for those you feel are most in need of advocacy. Because you're a magnet for so much attention and drama, you are the 1-shot LIGHTNING ROD. Once per game, and during the NP, you may activate your role. All non-lethal actions will be redirect to you. You win with the town.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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11/18/2014 11:32:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
TOWN (cont'd)

Dalt - You are KHAOS_MAGE. At first, you were a bit intense for me...but, now that I got to know you, I would definitely consider you a friend. You can be a bit quirky at times, lol, but you're honest, trustworthy, and willing to talk. When I first began playing mafia, you were "the" player I wanted to be like--you caught scum with your trademark style. As Yraelz said, you have a "penchant for bizarre theories," but that never seems to dull your ability to play mafia well, and to hone in on scum. Thus, you are the COP. Each night you may target another player. You will learn if they win with the town (innocent) or not (guilty.) You win with the town.

THIRD PARTIES

Endark - You are MONETARYOFFSET. Because (I'll refrain from ranting, or the character space will evaporate) you can't make up your goddamn mind about whether you should stay on DDO or leave, you are the SOLO-WIN SURVIVOR. You win when another faction meets its wincon, but you usurp the win. You must survive until the end to win. You also have a 1x BULLETPROOF that activates automatically the first time you're targeted by a lethal night action.

YYW - You are VANILLA. You have no role.

[Formerly: You are BLADERUNNER060. You're a genuinely nice guy who I think very highly of--your a great voter, a solid friend, and a verbose writer. Indeed, you are incredibly talkative (not that this is a bad thing) and I doubt even death would silence you. Thus, you are the TREE STUMP. After you die, you stay around, and are able to post 15 comments per DP. You may not vote after death, however. You win with the town.]

Wylted (2) - You are VANILLA. You have no role.

[Formerly: You are ANGELOFDEATH. You're so friendly that it's almost surprising to find out you have an unhealthy obsession with death. It's a bit creepy...just sayin'. But, you chainsaw-, hatchet-, and other deadly-weapon-filled fantasies certainly make for interesting conversation. You are the 2-shot VIGILANTE. Twice per game, during the NP, you may select a player for death. You win with the town.]

NIGHT ACTIONS

NP1

Mort - Unblk. Esocial
Esocial - Voy. YYW
Dalt - Cop Endark
Geo - Jlkp. YYW
Nymph - Fshm. Bookie
Nymph - Bke. Rev
Blade - Frm. Geo
Rev - NK Krieg

NP2

Mort - Rlstp. Wylted(2)
Esocial - Voy. Endark
Dalt - Cop Dalt
Nymph - Fshm. Bookie
Nymph - Bke. Blade
Wylted - Vig Blade
Blade - Bsdr. Wylted and Dalt
Khaos - NK Annie

NP3

Mort - Rlstp. Wylted (2)
Dalt - Cop Endark
Nymph - Fshm. Vanilla
Wylted - Vig Nymph
Khaos - NK Nymph

NP4

Mort - Kiss Wylted
Dalt - Cop Yama
Khaos - NK 9space

NP5

Dalt - Cop Khaos
Khaos - NK XLAV

DAY PHASE ARCHIVE

DP1: http://www.debate.org...
DP2: http://www.debate.org...
DP3: http://www.debate.org...
DP4: http://www.debate.org...
DP5: http://www.debate.org...
DP6: http://www.debate.org...

You may now begin posting. Again, I hope the game was enjoyable.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
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11/18/2014 11:33:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
THEME

For the record, the theme was Regular/Frequent Users vs. People Who Are No Longer Here vs. People Who Are On-Again-Off-Again.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Daltonian
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11/18/2014 11:37:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
That last day phase was insane.. my thought process changed every five minutes..

Khaos managed to rip apart my initial instinct that he was scum - I should have trusted what I went in thinking.. though, to my defense, Wylted was not at all helping.

Anyways, the game was fun until that last DP had to complicate things.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/18/2014 11:41:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 11:37:15 PM, Daltonian wrote:
That last day phase was insane.. my thought process changed every five minutes..

Khaos managed to rip apart my initial instinct that he was scum - I should have trusted what I went in thinking.. though, to my defense, Wylted was not at all helping.

Anyways, the game was fun until that last DP had to complicate things.

My thought process was that I was confirmed town and didn't really need to help. Khaos was actually stupid for trying to lead a lynch on me when Yama was an easier target but whatever it worked so I can't complain.
Wylted
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11/18/2014 11:45:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I also disagree with BSH1 mod killing me for a slip in the main PM. The post at the end of the DP was legitimately accidental and I've never seen him kill somebody for a solitary slip in the main PM.

Especially when the game was ended on a mod kill.

It was obvious in my opinion that Khaos was scum. He was straight up openly complaining (in code) that the scum team was underpowered the last DP.
bsh1
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11/18/2014 11:55:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/18/2014 11:45:37 PM, Wylted wrote:
I also disagree with BSH1 mod killing me for a slip in the main PM. The post at the end of the DP was legitimately accidental and I've never seen him kill somebody for a solitary slip in the main PM.

Wylted, it was a combination of things: (1) you posting in the DP--even if you hadn't seen my warning, you still should've seen the post I used to close the DP, and (2) you posting the announcement PM after I expressly pointed out I would mod-kill the next person to post there (excluding Rev as he was already dead and YYW, who I gave permission to do so.) You definitely knew about (2), and since you had no action to actually submit, it was a conscious decision on your part to post there, not some errant slip.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
XLAV
Posts: 13,715
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11/19/2014 12:00:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Why the helldidn't you lynch Khaos? YYW was obviously town. Yama was town.
Dalt is town since he's the cop and there was a framer.
Wylted
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11/19/2014 12:12:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 12:00:23 AM, XLAV wrote:
Why the helldidn't you lynch Khaos? YYW was obviously town. Yama was town.
Dalt is town since he's the cop and there was a framer.

My point exactly. The last DP he was evenly openly complaining that the scum team was underpowered and he was still not lynched.
mortsdor
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11/19/2014 6:09:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I thought Dalt and Wylted and were obvious town.

You dudes shouldn't have lynched me in like 10 seconds flat. That was bogus.

also, I'd used the "Kiss" on wylted the night before proving his town status since I hadn't died.. :/
XLAV
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11/19/2014 6:32:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 6:09:52 AM, mortsdor wrote:
I thought Dalt and Wylted and were obvious town.

You dudes shouldn't have lynched me in like 10 seconds flat. That was bogus.
This ^

Mort was also obvious town.
YYW
Posts: 36,287
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11/19/2014 6:49:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
My reads are getting more accurate, which I like.

I didn't expect to be mod killed... but meh. The game was enjoyable while I was in it.

Mort shouldn't have been lynched so quickly.

Other thoughts:

I like the way nymph plays, and I wish Nymph and Kahos would get past their issues.

I'm glad I now have a sense of Mort's town meta -even though it's hardly complete.

I would like to see Wylted never do what he did DP1 again; because it gets him lynched every time, and that's bad.

I won't semi-post my role PM again...
Tsar of DDO
XLAV
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11/19/2014 6:57:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 6:49:17 AM, YYW wrote:
My reads are getting more accurate, which I like.
Eh, sure.

I didn't expect to be mod killed... but meh. The game was enjoyable while I was in it.

Mort shouldn't have been lynched so quickly.
Agreed.

Other thoughts:

I like the way nymph plays, and I wish Nymph and Kahos would get past their issues.
Of course you do. She plays like FT. The play we all love.

I'm glad I now have a sense of Mort's town meta -even though it's hardly complete.
He's pretty easy to read. In fact, I town read him just like how I town read you.

I would like to see Wylted never do what he did DP1 again; because it gets him lynched every time, and that's bad.
Lol.

I won't semi-post my role PM again...
Wylted
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11/19/2014 7:57:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 6:57:36 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 11/19/2014 6:49:17 AM, YYW wrote:
My reads are getting more accurate, which I like.
Eh, sure.

I didn't expect to be mod killed... but meh. The game was enjoyable while I was in it.

Mort shouldn't have been lynched so quickly.
Agreed.

Other thoughts:

I like the way nymph plays, and I wish Nymph and Kahos would get past their issues.
Of course you do. She plays like FT. The play we all love.

I don't like FT, and I don't give him as much credit as everyone else.

I'm glad I now have a sense of Mort's town meta -even though it's hardly complete.
He's pretty easy to read. In fact, I town read him just like how I town read you.

I would like to see Wylted never do what he did DP1 again; because it gets him lynched every time, and that's bad.
Lol.

I won't semi-post my role PM again...
Nymphomaniac
Posts: 665
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11/19/2014 8:55:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I don't get what happened? Town had 1 mislynch and lost?

For the record, you guys pushed a DP through before I could even post. I was gonna call Khaos out as scum based on his interaction with Rev, if you guys hadn't rushed through a DP when we still had over 40 hours left. I didn't even post once the entire DP.

So here's some more advice: if someone hasn't posted yet, at all, in a DP, and there are 40 hours left, maybe let them post before ending the DP, just in case they die at night. Or get vigged by a townie for being good... haven't heard that one before... LOL.
Fill all my holes, please.

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: At 11/17/2014 9:30:55 AM, Wylted wrote:
: I killed Nymph because her reads were incredibly good. I thought it was a result of inside knowledge.
Nymphomaniac
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11/19/2014 8:57:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Town should have easily won this. Wylted couldn't have been scum, just as a matter of game balance.
Fill all my holes, please.

http://www.debate.org...

: At 11/17/2014 9:30:55 AM, Wylted wrote:
: I killed Nymph because her reads were incredibly good. I thought it was a result of inside knowledge.
Khaos_Mage
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11/19/2014 9:06:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Well, this certainly was a disappointing end to the most challenging set-up I've had...

I should have been lynched DP6 after YYW died for one very clear reason, and that reason is NOT because Wylted was confirmed, which he wasn't, only his role was.

Every argument I made, I would have made as town, if you factor out my play.
Including lynching YYW, since his claim was wonky, and if there were two scum left, he had to be one.

Players need to look at timing of things.
A hammer is not "a hammer" if it is placed so close in time to other non-hammer votes.
If you are building a wagon and are at L-4, and four people vote within 10 seconds of each other, do you say the hammerer "hammered"? No. And, by the same token, neither should my hammer have had any weight. I was surprised, (pleased, but surprised), that mort was lynched so quickly.

My intention for town reading him was because I was going to say my role failed NP2, thus I "knew" he was telling the truth, but as Dalton pointed out, role stopper has much utility for scum. I love how I am scum read for changing my mind with a valid point (sarcasm).

Wylted, what the fvck were you doing DP6?
Your play made no sense, and I was going to lynch Yama until you started acting like an anti-town nut. Your lie made no sense. If you had saved your vig shot, you straight up lied about it, which is bad, your reasoning was bad, and most of all, you wasted everyone's time. Had you had a shot left, after YYW was mod-killed, you should have demanded a lynch on me or Yama, and shot the other. Game over.

Further, your excuse is that you were mod-confirmed? So what? That means you can stop playing? Did you not realize how unbalanced this game was without you being scum? Did you not see how that does not make you town?
Fact: Blade was going to be lynched DP3, so shooting him meant nothing. Had you shot him NP1, or me NP2, that would be town cred. Further, Blade's roles were largely useless: roleblocker and strongman - who cares?
Fact: Mafia was given a fake claim of Whiteflame. So your early claim meant nothing.
Fact: Vox claimed only after he was forced to due to your actions DP1.
Whatever, that is just bad play. Especially saying Yama is somehow not "confirmed" town for not lynching you or me.

YYW, that was not a paraphrase. Not even close.
Also, you would like FT's play style.
Also, please refrain from commenting on me and FT's relationship. It is a bit hypocritical of you.

For the record:
I figured out the theme before DP1 started, with Blade's input.
The mafia team were essentially the last to claim, even though we had a fake claim. LOL
I should have killed Wylted and kept XLAV alive for better mislynch targets, but:
1. I needed XLAV's role to ensure I wasn't CC'd
2. Wylted's role was the best role analysis mislynch

bsh1, this game was horribly unbalanced.
As I said, mafia needed FIVE mislynches to win. (six if we shot the jailkeeper's target or ER) That is a tall order, given two protective roles, and no real useful mafia roles.
We learned five roles, but not who had them, and I investigated innocent.
After NP1, we had two goons.
JOAT's roles could be stopped, and were unlikely to help.

Town had a few confirmable roles: vig, lr, cop, popular, gladiator
We did not have the numbers to make this a fair fight. If it wasn't for FT's presence and charlesb's jackassery, I don't think I would have survived past DP4, since I was able to be absent, and become unhinged, and obfuscate my reads ,given the lies people were spouting from the game, and outside the game.

All in all, it was fun, as I like a challenge, but I also wouldn't have won without those mod errors and kills. This was an empty victory for me, as it was won due to others' mistakes, more than by my abilities.

Stop hooking up the town so much :(
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
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11/19/2014 9:09:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 8:57:00 AM, Nymphomaniac wrote:
Town should have easily won this. Wylted couldn't have been scum, just as a matter of game balance.

They should have won; however, there was no balance. This was town's game to lose (with the exception of ER, I suppose).
3 vs. 13 is not balanced given the roles.
My work here is, finally, done.
XLAV
Posts: 13,715
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11/19/2014 9:59:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
For the record:
I figured out the theme before DP1 started, with Blade's input.
The mafia team were essentially the last to claim, even though we had a fake claim. LOL
I should have killed Wylted and kept XLAV alive for better mislynch targets, but:
1. I needed XLAV's role to ensure I wasn't CC'd
2. Wylted's role was the best role analysis mislynch

Be glad that you killed me. I have two reasons why I refused to claim till the end. One, to waste scum NK on me. Two, if I survived till the end, I would cc whoever I think was scum (Wylted style!!) .
Khaos_Mage
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11/19/2014 10:03:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 9:59:17 AM, XLAV wrote:
For the record:
I figured out the theme before DP1 started, with Blade's input.
The mafia team were essentially the last to claim, even though we had a fake claim. LOL
I should have killed Wylted and kept XLAV alive for better mislynch targets, but:
1. I needed XLAV's role to ensure I wasn't CC'd
2. Wylted's role was the best role analysis mislynch

Be glad that you killed me. I have two reasons why I refused to claim till the end. One, to waste scum NK on me. Two, if I survived till the end, I would cc whoever I think was scum (Wylted style!!) .

Then it wasn't a waste of an NK, now was it?
My work here is, finally, done.
XLAV
Posts: 13,715
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11/19/2014 10:04:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I already know Yama and YYW are town, I might go paranoid with Dalt, but his role made sence with the presence of a framer, ergo town. Added to that, for some reason I have a lot of town cred.

The only argument you could possibly throw at me would be my character, Cooldude, Who seems to be a "minor" member of DDO.
Nymphomaniac
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11/19/2014 10:21:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 9:09:09 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 11/19/2014 8:57:00 AM, Nymphomaniac wrote:
Town should have easily won this. Wylted couldn't have been scum, just as a matter of game balance.

They should have won; however, there was no balance. This was town's game to lose (with the exception of ER, I suppose).
3 vs. 13 is not balanced given the roles.

You're wrong about balance. If anything, it was mafia-sided, for a number of reasons.

1. With the inclusion of third-party, the balance is more 3:11 than 3:13.

2. Mafia had every tool necessary to win via night-actions. The bus-driver could have been used to get an extra night-kill. The strongman could have got past any protection. The role-blocker could have been used to avoid a vig, or to avoid a cop, or whatever other use. The framer and godfather made results unreliable (per usual). To top it off, you had a role giving you 50% of the other roles, which made the mafia more informed than usual. Finally, mafia had day-talk, which is itself worth another mafia, balance-wise.

3. To compensate, what did town have? They had a weak vigilante (2-shot), a cop (unreliable give a framer, bus-driver, and godfather), a fisherman (useless), a voyeur (useless), a gladiator (extremely scummy and anti-town), a jailkeeper (worst protective role in the game, and also scummy), popular (no utility other than role confirmation), JOAT (with virtually useless abilities), a lightning rod (useless and scummy), plus some vanillas. Overall, town's roles weren't strong, and mafia was more than compensated for that.

4. Finally, we had to contend with a bulletproof survivor, which means mafia could have won a DP earlier if he hadn't been lynched.

I'd say the game was balanced against town. Results were virtually useless for finding mafia. The gladiator caused a mislynch instead of a proper lynch (which is what gladiators almost always do and why they're anti-town). The mafia could have played better by using the bus-driver on the vigilante with better effect (see how I used the bus-driver in Beginner 32.2 to get 3 night-kills of my choice, for example). With 4 scum, and 12 town, the town only had 2 mislynches. 4 scum, 2 mislynches. That's extremely scum-sided, however you spin it.
Fill all my holes, please.

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: At 11/17/2014 9:30:55 AM, Wylted wrote:
: I killed Nymph because her reads were incredibly good. I thought it was a result of inside knowledge.
Nymphomaniac
Posts: 665
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11/19/2014 10:36:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The most hilarious moment of the game: Wylted killing me because my "reads were too good" and thus were "evidence of inside knowledge."
Fill all my holes, please.

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: At 11/17/2014 9:30:55 AM, Wylted wrote:
: I killed Nymph because her reads were incredibly good. I thought it was a result of inside knowledge.
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,138
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11/19/2014 10:36:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Bsh, for the bookie role, how did you calculate the percentages for each character? I am not seeing how they were arrived at.
Nymphomaniac
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11/19/2014 10:38:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 10:36:37 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
Bsh, for the bookie role, how did you calculate the percentages for each character? I am not seeing how they were arrived at.

They didn't correlate to actual percentages. I talked to bsh1 about that in my role PM, so I knew going in that they weren't reliable numbers.
Fill all my holes, please.

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: At 11/17/2014 9:30:55 AM, Wylted wrote:
: I killed Nymph because her reads were incredibly good. I thought it was a result of inside knowledge.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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11/19/2014 10:56:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 10:21:03 AM, Nymphomaniac wrote:
At 11/19/2014 9:09:09 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 11/19/2014 8:57:00 AM, Nymphomaniac wrote:
Town should have easily won this. Wylted couldn't have been scum, just as a matter of game balance.

They should have won; however, there was no balance. This was town's game to lose (with the exception of ER, I suppose).
3 vs. 13 is not balanced given the roles.

You're wrong about balance. If anything, it was mafia-sided, for a number of reasons.

1. With the inclusion of third-party, the balance is more 3:11 than 3:13.
This makes it more balanced against town, but not for mafia.
If the survivor was a joint win, or not 1x BP, then yes, it would be more fair for mafia.
As it stood, mafia was 3 vs. 13, with one player who must be lynched (or shot twice).

2. Mafia had every tool necessary to win via night-actions. The bus-driver could have been used to get an extra night-kill. The strongman could have got past any protection. The role-blocker could have been used to avoid a vig, or to avoid a cop, or whatever other use. The framer and godfather made results unreliable (per usual). To top it off, you had a role giving you 50% of the other roles, which made the mafia more informed than usual. Finally, mafia had day-talk, which is itself worth another mafia, balance-wise.

Actually, of the 13 roles we did not know, we learned only five. Roles, not characters. Roles, not flavors/restrictions. And, they were pre-determined, and didn't really affect our decision. We killed krieg because he wouldn't be protected, NP2 we killed the voyeur to prevent any more roles being discovered, NP3 you in case you were JK, NP4 popular, NP5 XLAV because he would vote for Wylted and I needed his role to fake claim. In other words, we didn't really use that info, as most of it was public.
It helped, but not enough to use very effectively, since we knew three of the five roles DP2.
Our JOAT needed to be exact on his play, otherwise it was worthless.
Framer needs to target the cop's target - 1x (and it doesn't help in the >25% chance that he cops scum anyway)
bus driver - always good, but town had a role that messed it up for us
roleblocker - not many roles worth roleblocking, and again, the town JOAT could negate it
strongman - only applied to 1.5 players
That's like saying a strongman in a game with one doctor as the only protection is super worthwhile.

3. To compensate, what did town have? They had a weak vigilante (2-shot), a cop (unreliable give a framer, bus-driver, and godfather), a fisherman (useless), a voyeur (useless), a gladiator (extremely scummy and anti-town), a jailkeeper (worst protective role in the game, and also scummy), popular (no utility other than role confirmation), JOAT (with virtually useless abilities), a lightning rod (useless and scummy), plus some vanillas. Overall, town's roles weren't strong, and mafia was more than compensated for that.
Voyeur was useless? Had geo ever posted, he would have been mod-confirmed.
Mafia had only one visiting role, and the voyeur could have confirmed: vig, cop, joat, jailkeeper, fisherman (maybe), ESPECIALLY if lightning rod was used for the last four.
The roles were cross confirming, and mafia had little disruption.

4. Finally, we had to contend with a bulletproof survivor, which means mafia could have won a DP earlier if he hadn't been lynched.
If he hadn't been lynched, mafia would have lost.

I'd say the game was balanced against town. Results were virtually useless for finding mafia. The gladiator caused a mislynch instead of a proper lynch (which is what gladiators almost always do and why they're anti-town). The mafia could have played better by using the bus-driver on the vigilante with better effect (see how I used the bus-driver in Beginner 32.2 to get 3 night-kills of my choice, for example). With 4 scum, and 12 town, the town only had 2 mislynches. 4 scum, 2 mislynches. That's extremely scum-sided, however you spin it.

Oh, you mean like how we tried to get Wytled to shoot Dalton NP2, but didn't work?
Yeah, because that wasn't a waste of our only redirection.
Now, a real bus driver would have been great, since Blade would have been innocent and Wytled would have shot himself.

Town vs. scum, number-wise, was fair. 4:12 is not outrageous
Town's roles put scum at a disadvantage, as they confirmed each other, and mafia did not have the numbers to CC a player.
Mafia was outnumbered and outroled.
Survivor had his work cut out, due to town's roles, however, he could claim bulletproof .
My work here is, finally, done.
YYW
Posts: 36,287
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11/19/2014 11:03:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 9:06:43 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Well, this certainly was a disappointing end to the most challenging set-up I've had...

I should have been lynched DP6 after YYW died for one very clear reason, and that reason is NOT because Wylted was confirmed, which he wasn't, only his role was.

Every argument I made, I would have made as town, if you factor out my play.
Including lynching YYW, since his claim was wonky, and if there were two scum left, he had to be one.

Players need to look at timing of things.
A hammer is not "a hammer" if it is placed so close in time to other non-hammer votes.
If you are building a wagon and are at L-4, and four people vote within 10 seconds of each other, do you say the hammerer "hammered"? No. And, by the same token, neither should my hammer have had any weight. I was surprised, (pleased, but surprised), that mort was lynched so quickly.

My intention for town reading him was because I was going to say my role failed NP2, thus I "knew" he was telling the truth, but as Dalton pointed out, role stopper has much utility for scum. I love how I am scum read for changing my mind with a valid point (sarcasm).

Wylted, what the fvck were you doing DP6?
Your play made no sense, and I was going to lynch Yama until you started acting like an anti-town nut. Your lie made no sense. If you had saved your vig shot, you straight up lied about it, which is bad, your reasoning was bad, and most of all, you wasted everyone's time. Had you had a shot left, after YYW was mod-killed, you should have demanded a lynch on me or Yama, and shot the other. Game over.

Further, your excuse is that you were mod-confirmed? So what? That means you can stop playing? Did you not realize how unbalanced this game was without you being scum? Did you not see how that does not make you town?
Fact: Blade was going to be lynched DP3, so shooting him meant nothing. Had you shot him NP1, or me NP2, that would be town cred. Further, Blade's roles were largely useless: roleblocker and strongman - who cares?
Fact: Mafia was given a fake claim of Whiteflame. So your early claim meant nothing.
Fact: Vox claimed only after he was forced to due to your actions DP1.
Whatever, that is just bad play. Especially saying Yama is somehow not "confirmed" town for not lynching you or me.

YYW, that was not a paraphrase. Not even close.

I know. I wanted to be mod killed because I thought that after I was the town would lynch you, because that was then the obvious thing to do.

I did not expect that Bsh1 would mod kill me AND convert me to a vanilla...

Sorry.

Also, you would like FT's play style.
Also, please refrain from commenting on me and FT's relationship. It is a bit hypocritical of you.

In the past I've gotten into fights with other players. I try to avoid that now.

For the record:
I figured out the theme before DP1 started, with Blade's input.
The mafia team were essentially the last to claim, even though we had a fake claim. LOL
I should have killed Wylted and kept XLAV alive for better mislynch targets, but:
1. I needed XLAV's role to ensure I wasn't CC'd
2. Wylted's role was the best role analysis mislynch

bsh1, this game was horribly unbalanced.
As I said, mafia needed FIVE mislynches to win. (six if we shot the jailkeeper's target or ER) That is a tall order, given two protective roles, and no real useful mafia roles.
We learned five roles, but not who had them, and I investigated innocent.
After NP1, we had two goons.
JOAT's roles could be stopped, and were unlikely to help.

Town had a few confirmable roles: vig, lr, cop, popular, gladiator
We did not have the numbers to make this a fair fight. If it wasn't for FT's presence and charlesb's jackassery, I don't think I would have survived past DP4, since I was able to be absent, and become unhinged, and obfuscate my reads ,given the lies people were spouting from the game, and outside the game.

All in all, it was fun, as I like a challenge, but I also wouldn't have won without those mod errors and kills. This was an empty victory for me, as it was won due to others' mistakes, more than by my abilities.

Stop hooking up the town so much :(
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,287
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11/19/2014 11:04:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/19/2014 10:36:13 AM, Nymphomaniac wrote:
The most hilarious moment of the game: Wylted killing me because my "reads were too good" and thus were "evidence of inside knowledge."

Yes. I still LOL'd at that.
Tsar of DDO