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Beginner's Mafia 34.2: Endgame

RevNge
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1/8/2015 12:36:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
THE MAFIA WINS!

PLACEMENTS

First place: Mafia
Second place: Town
Third place: Serial Killer

SETUP

MAFIA

Wylted - You are the Redirector. You may choose two players. All actions taken by the first player will be redirected to the second. You win with the mafia.

Subutai - You are the Ninja. No action you take will appear on any investigative or informative role report. You win with the mafia.

TOWN

Khaos/Ashkan (formerly Ashkan) - You are the Super Saint. If lynched, you will automatically kill the person that hammered you. You win with the Town.

Harder/XLAV - You are the Watcher. Each night you may select another player. You will learn who visited them, but not what action(s) were performed. You win with the Town.

HPG/Nivek (formerly Nivek) - You are the Cop. Each night, you may choose one player. You will learn whether your target is aligned with the town (innocent) or with the mafia (guilty). You win with the Town.

Medic - You are the Sidekick. Each night you select another player. All non-lethal actions targeting that player will be redirected to you, instead. You win with the Town.

Khaos - You are the two-shot Vigilante. Each night you may select another person to die. You win with the Town.

HPG - You are the Innocent Child. Your affiliation will be mod confirmed at the start of the second Day Phase. You win with the Town.

Ore_Ele - You are the odd-night Ascetic. You cannot be targeted by non-lethal actions. You win with the Town.

Yama - You are the Pacifist. You cannot vote on players who are at L-1. Attempts to place such votes will not be recorded. You win with the Town.

THIRD PARTY

ESocial/That1User - You are the serial killer. Each night, you must target another player to die. You win when all other players are dead.

ACTIONS

DP1
Lynch HPG

NP1
Khaos NK Ore_Ele
Nivek investigate Khaos
Harder/XLAV watch Yama
Medic waives

Wylted redirect Ore_Ele to Medic
Subutai NK Khaos

ESocial/That1User NK Wylted

DP2
Lynch Khaos/Ashkan
Khaos/Ashkan kill ESocial/That1User

NP2
HPG/Nivek investigate Medic
Harder/XLAV watch HPG/Nivek
Medic waives

Subutai NK Nivek

DP3
Lynch Harder/XLAV

With Town mislynching Harder/XLAV at MyLo, the Mafia wins!

MOD COMMENTS

This game was relatively quick compared to most Beginner's games; the game had ended by DP3 where seven players had already died. All three factions had done things that crippled them, cornered them, and frankly, made me question their sanity. Granted, it wasn't entirely their fault, however.

The townies wasted the DP1 lynch, partly due to Wylted's purposeful hammer and HPG's delay in claiming Innocent Child (I mean, out of all the people you could mislynch, the one that will be mod-confirmed Town the next DP? Seriously?), although I could hardly blame the bandwagon. NP1 was crippling to Town and Mafia--the former lost two of its most experienced and valuable players, Khaos and Ore_Ele, while the latter lost Wylted (in NP1 again XD) and half of the scum team.

DP2 was the point where the stage was set for Mafia to swoop in and take the win next DP. However, all three factions had dug their own graves by various degrees. Town absolutely should not have lynched Khaos/Ashkan, even if they were a Super Saint. With five Townies, one TP, and one Mafia, the townies should have known that they would be at MyLo tomorrow if they mislynched and killed the TP. ESocial fake claimed a two-shot Vig, which was definite scum, as only broken games would have two vigs, unless there was something like two docs as well (and Beginner games would definitely not have such an unorthodox setup). Subutai, the remaining scum, could have made himself look less scummy by fake claiming a passive role, since even if he NK's, he can avoid the Watcher. Instead, he played it safe--too safe--and claimed Coroner.

The final DP rested on Yama's shoulders as the confirmed Townie, but unfortunately, Medic and his inaccurate read on Harder and XLAV swayed him. Of course, XLAV shouldn't have mislynched Khaos in exchange for the SK's death as well, but his logic in narrowing down the potential scum should have been reasonable, as PoE in the later stages of the game could be fatal for Mafia. As for Medic, the Sidekick role should not have been that big of a stretch, since the roles are randomized and Sidekick was in the last game as well.

Town had many diverse roles, with Vig and Cop being the most useful, albeit both were used improperly and ineffectively due to the amount of time they had to use them. Watcher was unfortunately useless due to the Mafia Ninja. Regardless, I think it was possible for them to win if the players didn't die so quickly or they had better DP play.

In Mafia, poor Wylted died in NP1 yet again (he was very pissed, by the way). Subutai was able to overcome this hindrance, but I think he should have killed Yama as he was confirmed Town in addition to claiming a more believable passive role. Regardless, he was still able to pull off a good scum win, so props to him.

TP was...um. ESocial fake claimed Vig even after she saw that Khaos was the Town Vig, which was...well, you get the picture. I feel especially sorry for That1User since he didn't consent to her fake claim, nor did she ask him about it during DP2 before doing so. The poor guy even voluntarily hammered the Super Saint.

Overall, it was an extremely interesting (and hilarious) game for me to mod. Now that I have toyed with several hydras now, however, I think I understand why Bsh doesn't want hydras in the beginner series--too confusing for the players, especially in the final DP. Furthermore, hydra partners go inactive from the game. Therefore, all hydras will be abolished in the next game, and XLAV shall be appointed as my co-mod.

34.3 will be up as soon as my co-mod for the final game of this series, XLAV, and I finish working out the mechanics of the game.
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
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1/8/2015 12:57:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Stupid XLAV lynching me.
You could have kept me alive to have someone else hammer.
Had I been alive, I'd have voted you too.

Sorry, Ore.
I thought you and Wylted were scum.
Wylted asked what the vote count was, and you responded with something other than, don't vote, as the number was met.

By the way, town!!!
When you confirm someone like Pacifist and what not, as soon as you would confirm it (i.e. the number of votes are there), UNVOTE!!!!
I do not recall if HPG was posting as this wagon grew, but if he wasn't there was no need to have him hanging at L-1 for an hour or two.
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
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1/8/2015 1:09:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I don't think hydras are bad per se, or even confusing. Replacements are.
Me and Ashkan were a hydra ONLY because I still wanted him to be able to play (as I had no idea why he was AWOL DP1).

I still think beginners can benefit from a silent partner, a hydra where ONLY one member speaks, the noob.
That way, they have 1on1 coaching, and see how the game is played.
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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1/8/2015 1:11:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'll admit, I made the wrong choice. But at least I did better than ESocial.
#GoodEnough
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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1/8/2015 1:12:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 1:09:11 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
I still think beginners can benefit from a silent partner, a hydra where ONLY one member speaks, the noob.
That way, they have 1on1 coaching, and see how the game is played.

^This!
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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1/8/2015 1:12:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 1:11:26 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I'll admit, I made the wrong choice. But at least I did better than ESocial.
#GoodEnough

Everyone did better than Annie. ;D
Subutai
Posts: 3,235
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1/8/2015 1:45:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I can't believe I won this.

XLAV, I still don't get your pushing for a lynch on Khaos in DP2. Sure, super saint is a scummy claim, and ashkan did act a little scummy, but you gave no justification at all for your lynch. You got others to bandwagon for no reason. Sure, you took out the TP, but I'm still not sure if that was a good trade. Then, you're craziness in DP3. Your scum read on me was for all the wrong reasons. Everything you questioned me on actually made me look town.

Medic, I understand why you voted for XLAV instead of me, but I thought your performance in DP2 was unsettling. You piled on to XLAV's Khaos lynch without giving a reason either. That was part of the reason why I think XLAV targeted you initially in DP3.

HPG, why were you acting so anti-town? You screwed town over when you had to be put at L-1. Sure, you caught Wylted by his hammering you but you wouldn't have had a lynch started on you if you hadn't been acting so suspicious.

We NKed Khaos first because he is a good player. We NKed Nivek because he was the cop, and if his results had gotten out in DP3, I probably would have been lynched.

I'm very good at not arousing suspicion to myself, pretty good in throwing suspicion off myself, and bad when it comes to fake claiming. I'm never able to make a convincing fake claim for some reason.

I thought this was my best performance in a mafia game. This is the first game where I'm scum that I was able to drive home a win (I was very close the other two times), and I managed to win with a start-of-DP2 ratio of 5-1-1. Even a start-of-DP3 ratio of 3-1 is pretty hard, especially if they're out for a lynch and scum hunting.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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1/8/2015 1:46:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'll have to take the blame for this one, which is why I wanted to play a beginner series, to work off the rust of not playing for a couple years. I don't think I'll ever be able to work past the kind of problems that some player styles create for me, though.

As for hydras, if the experienced player is aggressive and wants to take over playing the game, it isn't going to work. Like Khaos said, it WILL work if the experienced player stays in the background, just to help out.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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1/8/2015 1:48:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 1:46:55 PM, medic0506 wrote:

Damn.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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1/8/2015 2:01:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 1:45:35 PM, Subutai wrote:
I can't believe I won this.

XLAV, I still don't get your pushing for a lynch on Khaos in DP2. Sure, super saint is a scummy claim, and ashkan did act a little scummy, but you gave no justification at all for your lynch. You got others to bandwagon for no reason. Sure, you took out the TP, but I'm still not sure if that was a good trade. Then, you're craziness in DP3. Your scum read on me was for all the wrong reasons. Everything you questioned me on actually made me look town.

Medic, I understand why you voted for XLAV instead of me, but I thought your performance in DP2 was unsettling. You piled on to XLAV's Khaos lynch without giving a reason either. That was part of the reason why I think XLAV targeted you initially in DP3.

Yeah, like I said though, I thought I was missing the scum slip by Ash. Then Yama voted him too, so I assumed he saw it too. I was feeling pretty stupid for missing it and instead of holding my vote, I deviated from my norm and decided to follow.

HPG, why were you acting so anti-town? You screwed town over when you had to be put at L-1. Sure, you caught Wylted by his hammering you but you wouldn't have had a lynch started on you if you hadn't been acting so suspicious.

We NKed Khaos first because he is a good player. We NKed Nivek because he was the cop, and if his results had gotten out in DP3, I probably would have been lynched.

I'm very good at not arousing suspicion to myself, pretty good in throwing suspicion off myself, and bad when it comes to fake claiming. I'm never able to make a convincing fake claim for some reason.

I thought this was my best performance in a mafia game. This is the first game where I'm scum that I was able to drive home a win (I was very close the other two times), and I managed to win with a start-of-DP2 ratio of 5-1-1. Even a start-of-DP3 ratio of 3-1 is pretty hard, especially if they're out for a lynch and scum hunting.

You did well, congrats. All I could really get on you was the role claim that didn't fit in with the game.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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1/8/2015 2:05:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Who invented the sidekick role?? It's stupid, I'd rather be vanilla. It's nothing more than a townie redirector, for non-lethal actions, which if used, is going to just confuse fellow townies. It's a pointless role.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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1/8/2015 2:07:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 1:48:21 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/8/2015 1:46:55 PM, medic0506 wrote:

Damn.

Looks like you get away without having to shame the Jag.
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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1/8/2015 2:07:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:05:31 PM, medic0506 wrote:
Who invented the sidekick role?? It's stupid, I'd rather be vanilla. It's nothing more than a townie redirector, for non-lethal actions, which if used, is going to just confuse fellow townies. It's a pointless role.

Oh there are dumber (more awesome) roles.
Such as:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net...
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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1/8/2015 2:08:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:07:19 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/8/2015 1:48:21 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/8/2015 1:46:55 PM, medic0506 wrote:

Damn.

Looks like you get away without having to shame the Jag.

Lol yep.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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1/8/2015 2:09:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Rev, let's create the dumbest and most powerful role ever!
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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1/8/2015 2:10:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm thinking a role that swaps everyone's roles and alignments randomly.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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1/8/2015 2:15:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:07:42 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 1/8/2015 2:05:31 PM, medic0506 wrote:
Who invented the sidekick role?? It's stupid, I'd rather be vanilla. It's nothing more than a townie redirector, for non-lethal actions, which if used, is going to just confuse fellow townies. It's a pointless role.

Oh there are dumber (more awesome) roles.
Such as:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net...

lol...That's pretty messed up but at least it does have some positive utility.
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
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1/8/2015 2:34:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:05:31 PM, medic0506 wrote:
Who invented the sidekick role?? It's stupid, I'd rather be vanilla. It's nothing more than a townie redirector, for non-lethal actions, which if used, is going to just confuse fellow townies. It's a pointless role.

It can be quite useful as well, though.
Protecting town against roleblocks, tailors, janitors (IMO), and what not.

Also, don't fell too bad, I would have voted for XLAV as well.
He said you and I were scum for almost no reason, then eliminated his two threats.
I thought if he was town, he would have tried to get you to hammer me, since he was so confident one of us was scum.
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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1/8/2015 2:41:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:40:10 PM, Wylted wrote:
In your faces

NP1 even ESocial got further than that.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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1/8/2015 2:41:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:41:27 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 1/8/2015 2:40:10 PM, Wylted wrote:
In your faces

NP1 even ESocial got further than that.

LOL
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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1/8/2015 2:48:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:40:10 PM, Wylted wrote:
In your faces

I wouldn't gloat after your move. You got lucky that Sub was able to pull it off, but killing half the scum team like that on DP 1 was stuuuuuuuuupet. If Esocial hadn't killed you, we would have policy lynched you the next DP. 1-for-1 trades that early are never good for mafia, and always better for town.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/8/2015 2:53:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:48:32 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/8/2015 2:40:10 PM, Wylted wrote:
In your faces

I wouldn't gloat after your move. You got lucky that Sub was able to pull it off, but killing half the scum team like that on DP 1 was stuuuuuuuuupet. If Esocial hadn't killed you, we would have policy lynched you the next DP. 1-for-1 trades that early are never good for mafia, and always better for town.

I'm reasonably certain that I wouldn't be lynched until DP3
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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1/8/2015 2:56:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 10:38:51 AM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I propose that Harder is letting XLAV do the heavy lifting this DP so that they win, and Wylted (Experienced) was paired with Harder (Noob) as mafia.

*Facepalm*

I think I've went over this a good dozen or so times in mafia games: I do not: I repeat: I DO NOT post when I am at school from 6:55 to 1:50, DDO Time.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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1/8/2015 2:59:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:53:48 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/8/2015 2:48:32 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/8/2015 2:40:10 PM, Wylted wrote:
In your faces

I wouldn't gloat after your move. You got lucky that Sub was able to pull it off, but killing half the scum team like that on DP 1 was stuuuuuuuuupet. If Esocial hadn't killed you, we would have policy lynched you the next DP. 1-for-1 trades that early are never good for mafia, and always better for town.

I'm reasonably certain that I wouldn't be lynched until DP3

I was already pushing for it after you hammered on day one. I think enough townies would have supported it.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/8/2015 3:00:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 2:59:19 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/8/2015 2:53:48 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/8/2015 2:48:32 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/8/2015 2:40:10 PM, Wylted wrote:
In your faces

I wouldn't gloat after your move. You got lucky that Sub was able to pull it off, but killing half the scum team like that on DP 1 was stuuuuuuuuupet. If Esocial hadn't killed you, we would have policy lynched you the next DP. 1-for-1 trades that early are never good for mafia, and always better for town.

I'm reasonably certain that I wouldn't be lynched until DP3

I was already pushing for it after you hammered on day one. I think enough townies would have supported it.

I would've changed their minds.
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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1/8/2015 3:02:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/8/2015 3:00:39 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/8/2015 2:59:19 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/8/2015 2:53:48 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/8/2015 2:48:32 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 1/8/2015 2:40:10 PM, Wylted wrote:
In your faces

I wouldn't gloat after your move. You got lucky that Sub was able to pull it off, but killing half the scum team like that on DP 1 was stuuuuuuuuupet. If Esocial hadn't killed you, we would have policy lynched you the next DP. 1-for-1 trades that early are never good for mafia, and always better for town.

I'm reasonably certain that I wouldn't be lynched until DP3

I was already pushing for it after you hammered on day one. I think enough townies would have supported it.

I would've changed their minds.

Not mine.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW