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Mods of DDO: Do you randomize?

bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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2/9/2015 7:37:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I do.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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2/9/2015 7:53:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Back when I started playing, mods assigned all the roles themselves. This basically continued for the first 80% of games I played in, until randomization started becoming more popular. The biggest problem was that mod-assigning roles basically guaranteed that some of the experienced players were gonna be scum, since the mod wants a fair fight. This came to a climax in a game that Logic on Rails modded, where we successfully used mod psych to confirm a bunch of people because we knew he wouldnt make them mafia.

But ironically, you could make a pretty strong argument that an all-noob mafia is more powerful than an all-experienced mafia.

In any case, it looks like randomization is the most common thing right now, which is cool. Its more fair that way and gives everyone equal footing.
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
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2/9/2015 7:55:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 7:36:41 PM, Raisor wrote:
Do you randomize roles?


What are your thoughts on randomization?

I will randomize things, and if I don't like it, I re-randomize it.
In other words, I don't manually switch one player, but if I feel like it, I'll randomize the whole list again.
Raisor
Posts: 4,461
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2/9/2015 7:58:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 7:47:49 PM, Bullish wrote:
100% all the time. It is the only ethical thing to do.

Unless you randomize and get all noob mafia with pro-cop pro-doc pro-vig. Or vice versa.
Raisor
Posts: 4,461
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2/9/2015 7:59:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 7:55:41 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 2/9/2015 7:36:41 PM, Raisor wrote:
Do you randomize roles?


What are your thoughts on randomization?

I will randomize things, and if I don't like it, I re-randomize it.
In other words, I don't manually switch one player, but if I feel like it, I'll randomize the whole list again.

That's kind of interesting.
Bullish
Posts: 3,527
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2/9/2015 8:02:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 7:58:20 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 2/9/2015 7:47:49 PM, Bullish wrote:
100% all the time. It is the only ethical thing to do.

Unless you randomize and get all noob mafia with pro-cop pro-doc pro-vig. Or vice versa.

If the RNG gods say so, then it is so. Otherwise town is given information that do not pertain to behavioural analysis.
0x5f3759df
Bullish
Posts: 3,527
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2/9/2015 8:02:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 7:55:41 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 2/9/2015 7:36:41 PM, Raisor wrote:
Do you randomize roles?


What are your thoughts on randomization?

I will randomize things, and if I don't like it, I re-randomize it.
In other words, I don't manually switch one player, but if I feel like it, I'll randomize the whole list again.

I've had the urge to do that before but managed to catch myself.
0x5f3759df
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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2/9/2015 8:04:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I haven't modded a game but I think some hybrid of the 2 would be good with a heavy leaning towards randomization .
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
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2/9/2015 8:06:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 8:02:42 PM, Bullish wrote:
At 2/9/2015 7:55:41 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 2/9/2015 7:36:41 PM, Raisor wrote:
Do you randomize roles?


What are your thoughts on randomization?

I will randomize things, and if I don't like it, I re-randomize it.
In other words, I don't manually switch one player, but if I feel like it, I'll randomize the whole list again.

I've had the urge to do that before but managed to catch myself.

I figure it is a compromise between the two systems.
As a mod, I can watch people think and learn, so I may want Player X to be role Y or affilation Z, so I will randomize the list until that occurs, and go from there.
Obviously, you can't have more than one or two prime choices, and in my current game, I finally (fourth spin) got the result I wanted, but I was not happy about other things, but, it was the law at that point.
I'll go more into detail when my game is over.
Raisor
Posts: 4,461
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2/9/2015 8:07:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 8:02:01 PM, Bullish wrote:
At 2/9/2015 7:58:20 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 2/9/2015 7:47:49 PM, Bullish wrote:
100% all the time. It is the only ethical thing to do.

Unless you randomize and get all noob mafia with pro-cop pro-doc pro-vig. Or vice versa.

If the RNG gods say so, then it is so. Otherwise town is given information that do not pertain to behavioural analysis.

...but odds are against this. Town would have a very hard time predicting what RNG would result in a re-randomization or an isolated switch of roles.

Seems like the most fair thing to do would be to acknowledge that sometimes you deviate from the RNG. Then town has to question even assumptions of randomness.
Bullish
Posts: 3,527
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2/9/2015 8:10:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 8:07:10 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 2/9/2015 8:02:01 PM, Bullish wrote:
At 2/9/2015 7:58:20 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 2/9/2015 7:47:49 PM, Bullish wrote:
100% all the time. It is the only ethical thing to do.

Unless you randomize and get all noob mafia with pro-cop pro-doc pro-vig. Or vice versa.

If the RNG gods say so, then it is so. Otherwise town is given information that do not pertain to behavioural analysis.

...but odds are against this. Town would have a very hard time predicting what RNG would result in a re-randomization or an isolated switch of roles.

Knowing what is not is very important. Especially at LyLo when all the other options may have been eliminated.

Seems like the most fair thing to do would be to acknowledge that sometimes you deviate from the RNG. Then town has to question even assumptions of randomness.

Randomness is of a distinct class from any mod preference, much like channel/off TV. As long as there is ANY mod preference shown before, then it is probabilistically better to assume it when playing.
0x5f3759df
Raisor
Posts: 4,461
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2/9/2015 8:11:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 8:06:17 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 2/9/2015 8:02:42 PM, Bullish wrote:
At 2/9/2015 7:55:41 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 2/9/2015 7:36:41 PM, Raisor wrote:
Do you randomize roles?


What are your thoughts on randomization?

I will randomize things, and if I don't like it, I re-randomize it.
In other words, I don't manually switch one player, but if I feel like it, I'll randomize the whole list again.

I've had the urge to do that before but managed to catch myself.

I figure it is a compromise between the two systems.
As a mod, I can watch people think and learn, so I may want Player X to be role Y or affilation Z, so I will randomize the list until that occurs, and go from there.
Obviously, you can't have more than one or two prime choices, and in my current game, I finally (fourth spin) got the result I wanted, but I was not happy about other things, but, it was the law at that point.
I'll go more into detail when my game is over.

thats why I think its interesting. It removes the chances of skill imbalance in team setup while precluding mod psych.

I guess it still leaves open the possibility that town gets a lucky lynch on two skilled players and starts hunting out noobs or something similar where town action is based on game balance analysis, but that doesnt seem so different from role analysis based on balance.
Bullish
Posts: 3,527
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2/9/2015 8:12:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 8:06:17 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 2/9/2015 8:02:42 PM, Bullish wrote:
At 2/9/2015 7:55:41 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 2/9/2015 7:36:41 PM, Raisor wrote:
Do you randomize roles?


What are your thoughts on randomization?

I will randomize things, and if I don't like it, I re-randomize it.
In other words, I don't manually switch one player, but if I feel like it, I'll randomize the whole list again.

I've had the urge to do that before but managed to catch myself.

I figure it is a compromise between the two systems.

True randomness cannot be compromised.

As a mod, I can watch people think and learn, so I may want Player X to be role Y or affilation Z, so I will randomize the list until that occurs, and go from there.
Obviously, you can't have more than one or two prime choices, and in my current game, I finally (fourth spin) got the result I wanted, but I was not happy about other things, but, it was the law at that point.
I'll go more into detail when my game is over.
0x5f3759df
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
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2/9/2015 8:13:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 8:11:04 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 2/9/2015 8:06:17 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 2/9/2015 8:02:42 PM, Bullish wrote:
At 2/9/2015 7:55:41 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 2/9/2015 7:36:41 PM, Raisor wrote:
Do you randomize roles?


What are your thoughts on randomization?

I will randomize things, and if I don't like it, I re-randomize it.
In other words, I don't manually switch one player, but if I feel like it, I'll randomize the whole list again.

I've had the urge to do that before but managed to catch myself.

I figure it is a compromise between the two systems.
As a mod, I can watch people think and learn, so I may want Player X to be role Y or affilation Z, so I will randomize the list until that occurs, and go from there.
Obviously, you can't have more than one or two prime choices, and in my current game, I finally (fourth spin) got the result I wanted, but I was not happy about other things, but, it was the law at that point.
I'll go more into detail when my game is over.

thats why I think its interesting. It removes the chances of skill imbalance in team setup while precluding mod psych.

I guess it still leaves open the possibility that town gets a lucky lynch on two skilled players and starts hunting out noobs or something similar where town action is based on game balance analysis, but that doesnt seem so different from role analysis based on balance.

Except my reasoning is usually more selfish in nature.
I don't care if my mafia is all noob or not. I think my first game the mafia were pretty new, and it went fairly well. The vets are always going to focus on each other first.
Raisor
Posts: 4,461
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2/9/2015 8:25:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 8:12:50 PM, Bullish wrote:
At 2/9/2015 8:06:17 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 2/9/2015 8:02:42 PM, Bullish wrote:
At 2/9/2015 7:55:41 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 2/9/2015 7:36:41 PM, Raisor wrote:
Do you randomize roles?


What are your thoughts on randomization?

I will randomize things, and if I don't like it, I re-randomize it.
In other words, I don't manually switch one player, but if I feel like it, I'll randomize the whole list again.

I've had the urge to do that before but managed to catch myself.

I figure it is a compromise between the two systems.

True randomness cannot be compromised.

As a mod, I can watch people think and learn, so I may want Player X to be role Y or affilation Z, so I will randomize the list until that occurs, and go from there.
Obviously, you can't have more than one or two prime choices, and in my current game, I finally (fourth spin) got the result I wanted, but I was not happy about other things, but, it was the law at that point.
I'll go more into detail when my game is over.

LOL even in mafia meta this sort of absolutism is sort of unnerving.
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
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2/9/2015 8:31:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 8:25:39 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 2/9/2015 8:12:50 PM, Bullish wrote:
At 2/9/2015 8:06:17 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 2/9/2015 8:02:42 PM, Bullish wrote:
At 2/9/2015 7:55:41 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 2/9/2015 7:36:41 PM, Raisor wrote:
Do you randomize roles?


What are your thoughts on randomization?

I will randomize things, and if I don't like it, I re-randomize it.
In other words, I don't manually switch one player, but if I feel like it, I'll randomize the whole list again.

I've had the urge to do that before but managed to catch myself.

I figure it is a compromise between the two systems.

True randomness cannot be compromised.

As a mod, I can watch people think and learn, so I may want Player X to be role Y or affilation Z, so I will randomize the list until that occurs, and go from there.
Obviously, you can't have more than one or two prime choices, and in my current game, I finally (fourth spin) got the result I wanted, but I was not happy about other things, but, it was the law at that point.
I'll go more into detail when my game is over.

LOL even in mafia meta this sort of absolutism is sort of unnerving.

Is this directed at me or Bullish, and if me, I don't understand?
Bullish
Posts: 3,527
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2/9/2015 8:33:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 8:31:33 PM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 2/9/2015 8:25:39 PM, Raisor wrote:

LOL even in mafia meta this sort of absolutism is sort of unnerving.

Is this directed at me or Bullish, and if me, I don't understand?

Probably at me.
0x5f3759df
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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2/9/2015 8:48:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 8:46:08 PM, Bullish wrote:
I have a feeling this is why Rev got vanilla every time.

Math hates him. It's a commonly known fact.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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2/9/2015 8:50:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 8:46:08 PM, Bullish wrote:
I have a feeling this is why Rev got vanilla every time.

Why do you hate me so much T_T
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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2/9/2015 8:50:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 7:36:41 PM, Raisor wrote:
Do you randomize roles?
Eh. If I have a say in it, I try to pick a random set of characters and build their roes around that. I focus on balance above all else though.... except in the case of flavors unique to me (and trust me they exist). If you get one of those (such as explosive collar), may the Gods have mercy on your soul.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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2/9/2015 8:50:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 8:41:44 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 2/9/2015 8:26:05 PM, Maikuru wrote:
Yeah

God damn it Maikuru. Get the hell out of here.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

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RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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2/9/2015 8:51:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 8:48:37 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 2/9/2015 8:46:08 PM, Bullish wrote:
I have a feeling this is why Rev got vanilla every time.

Math hates him. It's a commonly known fact.

But...I don't hate math...
TUF
Posts: 21,309
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2/9/2015 9:11:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I just assign them and tell people they are random. I don't want noobs or inactive people, for example, holding power roles, or screwing over the mafia.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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2/10/2015 8:58:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/9/2015 9:11:02 PM, TUF wrote:
I just assign them and tell people they are random. I don't want noobs or inactive people, for example, holding power roles, or screwing over the mafia.

Thank you for being the one honest person in this thread lol.
President of DDO
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
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2/10/2015 8:59:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/10/2015 8:58:19 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 2/9/2015 9:11:02 PM, TUF wrote:
I just assign them and tell people they are random. I don't want noobs or inactive people, for example, holding power roles, or screwing over the mafia.

Thank you for being the one honest person in this thread lol.

How am I not honest?