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Not playing to win (TPs in mafia)

KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
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2/10/2015 9:21:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Should TPs, who vie for second place, be mod-killed?

It is one thing to be a joint-win survivor and ally with the town. However, it is another to be a Serial Killer, and ally with the town.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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2/10/2015 9:29:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/10/2015 9:21:10 AM, KhaosMage wrote:
Should TPs, who vie for second place, be mod-killed?

It is one thing to be a joint-win survivor and ally with the town. However, it is another to be a Serial Killer, and ally with the town.

How the hell would you know they're playing for 2nd place?
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
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2/10/2015 9:31:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/10/2015 9:29:10 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/10/2015 9:21:10 AM, KhaosMage wrote:
Should TPs, who vie for second place, be mod-killed?

It is one thing to be a joint-win survivor and ally with the town. However, it is another to be a Serial Killer, and ally with the town.

How the hell would you know they're playing for 2nd place?

When they get caught, admit to being TP, say I'll help town, and do.
For example, if a SK kills all the mafia, (3 players remaining), it means they will be lynched.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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2/10/2015 9:35:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/10/2015 9:31:56 AM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 2/10/2015 9:29:10 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/10/2015 9:21:10 AM, KhaosMage wrote:
Should TPs, who vie for second place, be mod-killed?

It is one thing to be a joint-win survivor and ally with the town. However, it is another to be a Serial Killer, and ally with the town.

How the hell would you know they're playing for 2nd place?

When they get caught, admit to being TP, say I'll help town, and do.
For example, if a SK kills all the mafia, (3 players remaining), it means they will be lynched.

Oh, I think it would still be hard to determine motive. Killing mafia could be accidental and claiming to play for 2nd is just a defense mechanism.
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
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2/10/2015 9:38:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/10/2015 9:35:15 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/10/2015 9:31:56 AM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 2/10/2015 9:29:10 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/10/2015 9:21:10 AM, KhaosMage wrote:
Should TPs, who vie for second place, be mod-killed?

It is one thing to be a joint-win survivor and ally with the town. However, it is another to be a Serial Killer, and ally with the town.

How the hell would you know they're playing for 2nd place?

When they get caught, admit to being TP, say I'll help town, and do.
For example, if a SK kills all the mafia, (3 players remaining), it means they will be lynched.

Oh, I think it would still be hard to determine motive. Killing mafia could be accidental and claiming to play for 2nd is just a defense mechanism.

Yeah, I suppose you are right. Motive is hard to ascertain.
In the event of an SK, even giving town control of the kill is still not necessarily motive of "giving up".
After all, the TP could be joint win, could also not be.
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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2/10/2015 9:42:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/10/2015 9:21:10 AM, KhaosMage wrote:
Should TPs, who vie for second place, be mod-killed?

It is one thing to be a joint-win survivor and ally with the town. However, it is another to be a Serial Killer, and ally with the town.

I mean, I understand their motivation. Better to be second place than to lose outright.
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Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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2/10/2015 9:43:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/10/2015 9:38:49 AM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 2/10/2015 9:35:15 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/10/2015 9:31:56 AM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 2/10/2015 9:29:10 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/10/2015 9:21:10 AM, KhaosMage wrote:
Should TPs, who vie for second place, be mod-killed?

It is one thing to be a joint-win survivor and ally with the town. However, it is another to be a Serial Killer, and ally with the town.

How the hell would you know they're playing for 2nd place?

When they get caught, admit to being TP, say I'll help town, and do.
For example, if a SK kills all the mafia, (3 players remaining), it means they will be lynched.

Oh, I think it would still be hard to determine motive. Killing mafia could be accidental and claiming to play for 2nd is just a defense mechanism.

Yeah, I suppose you are right. Motive is hard to ascertain.
In the event of an SK, even giving town control of the kill is still not necessarily motive of "giving up".
After all, the TP could be joint win, could also not be.

Not to mention he could be hoping the town directs him incorrectly, which gives them an excuse to keep him alive if he kills town.
headphonegut
Posts: 4,122
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2/10/2015 1:04:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/10/2015 9:21:10 AM, KhaosMage wrote:
Should TPs, who vie for second place, be mod-killed?

It is one thing to be a joint-win survivor and ally with the town. However, it is another to be a Serial Killer, and ally with the town.

Instead of placing them. You can just declare a winner i.e Town wins. It would circumvent this issue I think. Simply don't declare a first, second, or third place; just declare the winner.
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Bullish
Posts: 3,527
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2/10/2015 5:17:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
In my games there are winners and losers. No second place. TPs are either solo win or joint win.
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Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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2/10/2015 7:11:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/10/2015 9:31:56 AM, KhaosMage wrote:
At 2/10/2015 9:29:10 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/10/2015 9:21:10 AM, KhaosMage wrote:
Should TPs, who vie for second place, be mod-killed?

It is one thing to be a joint-win survivor and ally with the town. However, it is another to be a Serial Killer, and ally with the town.

How the hell would you know they're playing for 2nd place?

When they get caught, admit to being TP, say I'll help town, and do.
For example, if a SK kills all the mafia, (3 players remaining), it means they will be lynched.

What would be the alternative? If their goal is survival and allying with the town is the only path toward survival, they should ally with town. TP win condition usually says they win when they are the last person alive or some variation of that. So long as they are not actively trying to lynch themselves, they are playing to that win condition. There are more or less ways to do that successfully, though.

In Trekie's Star Wars game, I was a TP vig who could copped guilty NP1. What was I going to do, say fvck it and start vigging townies lol? I told town I would help them and I was as helpful as I possibly could be to town, which included actively scum-hunting. Don't get me wrong, I lied to town about my win condition and my motivations for some of my actions in the hopes of eventually being able to find a way to win. Thankfully, I was eventually able to convert myself into a town vanilla and win with the town, but I was only able to do so because I played pro-town enough to survive to that point.
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FourTrouble
Posts: 12,759
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2/10/2015 8:42:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/10/2015 9:21:10 AM, KhaosMage wrote:
Should TPs, who vie for second place, be mod-killed?

It is one thing to be a joint-win survivor and ally with the town. However, it is another to be a Serial Killer, and ally with the town.

Yes, anyone who plays against their win-condition should be mod-killed.
KhaosMage
Posts: 1,475
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2/11/2015 8:34:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yes, I realize now this was a stupid topic, as obviously, if found out, you need to side with town to survive, and there is no real way for either the mod or the players to know if the TP did, in fact, bail on their wincon.