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Game Theory Mafia - DP1

Bullish
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2/27/2015 2:00:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Game Theory Mafia - DP1

I hope you have had enough time to consider whether you would sacrifice yourself for society or be a leech.

A few notes of interest and reminder: town's win con states "You win with the town; OR, you win if you are still alive when the mafia makes up half of the living players." This means as town, you can win either way. You are not forced to choose one and commit to it. You win if you eliminate all of the mafia; you also win by surviving once the mafia makes up half of the living players. Town's dilemma revolves around which win con they want to play for.

DP1 will function as normal. Come NP1 I will PM out the decision game.

It is important to note that every town player's character is "player." So there is essentially no character, and players are only discerned by roles.

Refer to the sign-ups thread for more information: http://www.debate.org...

Please ask any questions you have in the PMs.

Living players:
1. medic0506
2. headphonegut
3. daytonanerd
4. RevNge
5. YamaVonKarma
6. That1User
7. Khaos_Mage
8. ford_prefect
9. lannan13
10. XLAV
11. Ore_Ele
12. numberwang
13. SeventhProfessor
14. bossyburrito
15. Korashk

With 15 players alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch.

This DP lasts 96 hours. DP1 ends 03/03 14:00 DDO time.
0x5f3759df
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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2/27/2015 2:04:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm going to go on a limb and say the both Rev and User are town, or at least non-mafia.

I say they take the lead in this DP.
My work here is, finally, done.
daytonanerd
Posts: 6,769
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2/27/2015 2:14:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 2:04:04 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I'm going to go on a limb and say the both Rev and User are town, or at least non-mafia.

Is this just a shot in the dark, or do you have something assisting you in this guess?

I say they take the lead in this DP.

As opposed to you?
#FeeltheFreezerBern
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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2/27/2015 2:31:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 2:14:07 PM, daytonanerd wrote:
At 2/27/2015 2:04:04 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I'm going to go on a limb and say the both Rev and User are town, or at least non-mafia.

Is this just a shot in the dark, or do you have something assisting you in this guess?
Yeah, my scum PM. LOL
Look at the sign up thread.

I say they take the lead in this DP.

As opposed to you?
Yes. Why should you trust me? You know, aside from the likely confirmation of two players.
And by lead, I mean if they want a claim, the only thing to claim is our role, so it should be people that are likely town. Bam!!! They are likely town. So their pressuring for a role should be honest inquiry.

Also, in case you missed it in Beginner game, I am likely not going to be on this weekend. Hard to lead a town if I am gone after two hours. I'll likely check in, but if the DP blows up, I'll likely have to catch up Monday.
My work here is, finally, done.
headphonegut
Posts: 4,122
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2/27/2015 3:42:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 2:31:21 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 2/27/2015 2:14:07 PM, daytonanerd wrote:
At 2/27/2015 2:04:04 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I'm going to go on a limb and say the both Rev and User are town, or at least non-mafia.

Is this just a shot in the dark, or do you have something assisting you in this guess?
Yeah, my scum PM. LOL
Look at the sign up thread.

I say they take the lead in this DP.

As opposed to you?
Yes. Why should you trust me? You know, aside from the likely confirmation of two players.
And by lead, I mean if they want a claim, the only thing to claim is our role, so it should be people that are likely town. Bam!!! They are likely town. So their pressuring for a role should be honest inquiry.

Also, in case you missed it in Beginner game, I am likely not going to be on this weekend. Hard to lead a town if I am gone after two hours. I'll likely check in, but if the DP blows up, I'll likely have to catch up Monday.

VTL khaos
too many words
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?
lannan13
Posts: 23,111
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2/27/2015 3:43:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 2:31:21 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 2/27/2015 2:14:07 PM, daytonanerd wrote:
At 2/27/2015 2:04:04 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I'm going to go on a limb and say the both Rev and User are town, or at least non-mafia.

Is this just a shot in the dark, or do you have something assisting you in this guess?
Yeah, my scum PM. LOL
Look at the sign up thread.

I say they take the lead in this DP.

As opposed to you?
Yes. Why should you trust me? You know, aside from the likely confirmation of two players.
And by lead, I mean if they want a claim, the only thing to claim is our role, so it should be people that are likely town. Bam!!! They are likely town. So their pressuring for a role should be honest inquiry.

Also, in case you missed it in Beginner game, I am likely not going to be on this weekend. Hard to lead a town if I am gone after two hours. I'll likely check in, but if the DP blows up, I'll likely have to catch up Monday.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean as I looked, but I haven't found anything.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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2/27/2015 3:47:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 3:42:18 PM, headphonegut wrote:
At 2/27/2015 2:31:21 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

As opposed to you?
Yes. Why should you trust me? You know, aside from the likely confirmation of two players.
And by lead, I mean if they want a claim, the only thing to claim is our role, so it should be people that are likely town. Bam!!! They are likely town. So their pressuring for a role should be honest inquiry.

Also, in case you missed it in Beginner game, I am likely not going to be on this weekend. Hard to lead a town if I am gone after two hours. I'll likely check in, but if the DP blows up, I'll likely have to catch up Monday.

VTL khaos
too many words

Has that ever worked for you?
too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many wordstoo many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many wordstoo many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many wordstoo many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many wordstoo many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many wordstoo many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many wordstoo many words too many words too many wordstoo many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many wordstoo many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many wordstoo many words too many words too many wordstoo many words too many words too many wordstoo many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many wordstoo many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many wordstoo many words too many words too many wordstoo many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many wordstoo many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many too many words too many words too many wordstoo many words too many words too many wordstoo many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many wordstoo many words too many words too many words too many words too many words too many words
How about now?
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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2/27/2015 3:49:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 3:43:15 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 2/27/2015 2:31:21 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 2/27/2015 2:14:07 PM, daytonanerd wrote:
At 2/27/2015 2:04:04 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I'm going to go on a limb and say the both Rev and User are town, or at least non-mafia.

Is this just a shot in the dark, or do you have something assisting you in this guess?
Yeah, my scum PM. LOL
Look at the sign up thread.

I say they take the lead in this DP.

As opposed to you?
Yes. Why should you trust me? You know, aside from the likely confirmation of two players.
And by lead, I mean if they want a claim, the only thing to claim is our role, so it should be people that are likely town. Bam!!! They are likely town. So their pressuring for a role should be honest inquiry.

Also, in case you missed it in Beginner game, I am likely not going to be on this weekend. Hard to lead a town if I am gone after two hours. I'll likely check in, but if the DP blows up, I'll likely have to catch up Monday.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean as I looked, but I haven't found anything.

Most of the roles have been sent out; however, he still needed friend requests from User and Rev. Ergo, they are most likely town, scum together, or may be third party, but I think there are no TP this game, so they are either both town, both mafia, or mafia was hampered by not having a PM until late in the game.
I'm assuming the first.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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2/27/2015 3:53:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 3:50:16 PM, headphonegut wrote:
tldr.

That was funny.
Seriously, though, thoughts on the Rev/User confirmation?
My work here is, finally, done.
lannan13
Posts: 23,111
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2/27/2015 3:55:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 3:53:03 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 2/27/2015 3:50:16 PM, headphonegut wrote:
tldr.

That was funny.
Seriously, though, thoughts on the Rev/User confirmation?

That actually makes sense that it could be a mod slip.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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2/27/2015 3:58:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 3:55:12 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 2/27/2015 3:53:03 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 2/27/2015 3:50:16 PM, headphonegut wrote:
tldr.

That was funny.
Seriously, though, thoughts on the Rev/User confirmation?

That actually makes sense that it could be a mod slip.

Of course it makes sense, that's why I said it.
My work here is, finally, done.
headphonegut
Posts: 4,122
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2/27/2015 4:13:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 3:53:03 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 2/27/2015 3:50:16 PM, headphonegut wrote:
tldr.

That was funny.
Seriously, though, thoughts on the Rev/User confirmation?

I think it is a good place to start. I am not too certain it confirms them. like mod might have done everything and then realized he needed to be friends with them. iirc mods usually do that and are like oh accept me as a friend yo can't send you anything. But you might be right I am wary if we give them a pass they might not have any motivation to play and would just fall back on that oh we're potentially mod confirmed so long gay bowsers.
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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2/27/2015 5:14:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 3:49:30 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Most of the roles have been sent out; however, he still needed friend requests from User and Rev. Ergo, they are most likely town, scum together, or may be third party, but I think there are no TP this game, so they are either both town, both mafia, or mafia was hampered by not having a PM until late in the game.
I'm assuming the first.

Both Rev and User became friends with Bullish well before the day phase was posted. It took me like 2 minutes to confirm this by looking at their profile feeds.

FOS Khaos. I'll refrain from voting for you for now because of your proclaimed inability to be active, but pushing their innocence unprompted suggests odd things about your play.

Though, people say you're kind of a Zetsubou-lite. So I don't yet know what conclusion I can draw from this stupid assertion.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
Korashk
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2/27/2015 5:24:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
VTL headphonegut

I was a serious player when you started playing and you always acted like badger (which is bad). From my limited knowledge of the current state of the game you still act like that, so I'm "Zets Rule"-ing you.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
lannan13
Posts: 23,111
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2/27/2015 5:31:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
VTL HPG

If HPG plays like Korshank says then we should get that claim.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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2/27/2015 5:31:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 5:24:50 PM, Korashk wrote:
VTL headphonegut

I was a serious player when you started playing and you always acted like badger (which is bad). From my limited knowledge of the current state of the game you still act like that, so I'm "Zets Rule"-ing you.

Gute Abend and use English.
Most people here do not understand any Japanese so even something as simple as Zetsubou (Despair) will go right over their heads.

As for HPG; he is completely brain dead. For the most part, it's better to just treat it like he's not here.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
headphonegut
Posts: 4,122
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2/27/2015 5:38:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 5:31:48 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 2/27/2015 5:24:50 PM, Korashk wrote:
VTL headphonegut

I was a serious player when you started playing and you always acted like badger (which is bad). From my limited knowledge of the current state of the game you still act like that, so I'm "Zets Rule"-ing you.

Gute Abend and use English.
Most people here do not understand any Japanese so even something as simple as Zetsubou (Despair) will go right over their heads.

As for HPG; he is completely brain dead. For the most part, it's better to just treat it like he's not here.

I'm suprised, no vote? hmmmmm. He (Korashk) is referring to a player called zets.

Lannan has played with me before so his post is a real head scratcher. It read as if I was dead and just came back and Korashk has been here. Very nostalgic feeling tho.

On a side note badger is awesome.
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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2/27/2015 5:39:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 5:31:48 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 2/27/2015 5:24:50 PM, Korashk wrote:
VTL headphonegut

I was a serious player when you started playing and you always acted like badger (which is bad). From my limited knowledge of the current state of the game you still act like that, so I'm "Zets Rule"-ing you.

Gute Abend and use English.
Most people here do not understand any Japanese so even something as simple as Zetsubou (Despair) will go right over their heads.

Zetsubou (while also being the Japanese term for despair or misfortune) was the handle of a former member here. He probably still holds the title of "Worst Mafia Player Ever" on this site, and was the inspiration for Danielle's rule of targeting bad players and newbs on DP1.

As for HPG; he is completely brain dead. For the most part, it's better to just treat it like he's not here.

I thought as much.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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2/27/2015 6:23:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 3:49:30 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 2/27/2015 3:43:15 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 2/27/2015 2:31:21 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 2/27/2015 2:14:07 PM, daytonanerd wrote:
At 2/27/2015 2:04:04 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I'm going to go on a limb and say the both Rev and User are town, or at least non-mafia.

Is this just a shot in the dark, or do you have something assisting you in this guess?
Yeah, my scum PM. LOL
Look at the sign up thread.

I say they take the lead in this DP.

As opposed to you?
Yes. Why should you trust me? You know, aside from the likely confirmation of two players.
And by lead, I mean if they want a claim, the only thing to claim is our role, so it should be people that are likely town. Bam!!! They are likely town. So their pressuring for a role should be honest inquiry.

Also, in case you missed it in Beginner game, I am likely not going to be on this weekend. Hard to lead a town if I am gone after two hours. I'll likely check in, but if the DP blows up, I'll likely have to catch up Monday.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean as I looked, but I haven't found anything.

Most of the roles have been sent out; however, he still needed friend requests from User and Rev. Ergo, they are most likely town, scum together, or may be third party, but I think there are no TP this game, so they are either both town, both mafia, or mafia was hampered by not having a PM until late in the game.
I'm assuming the first.

If you look at the time stamps and when the friend requests were accepted, both accepted with an hour of posts asking them. So the "hampering" would be that mafia only got 17 hours before the start of the DP instead 18 like the rest of us. That is not so extreme that we can say it is not likely, and so they are in no way "confirmed." Heck, my role was changed on me so I got even less time to "prepare."
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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2/27/2015 6:26:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 5:31:48 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 2/27/2015 5:24:50 PM, Korashk wrote:
VTL headphonegut

I was a serious player when you started playing and you always acted like badger (which is bad). From my limited knowledge of the current state of the game you still act like that, so I'm "Zets Rule"-ing you.

Gute Abend and use English.
Most people here do not understand any Japanese so even something as simple as Zetsubou (Despair) will go right over their heads.

As for HPG; he is completely brain dead. For the most part, it's better to just treat it like he's not here.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net...
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
SeventhProfessor
Posts: 5,097
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2/27/2015 6:27:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 5:31:48 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 2/27/2015 5:24:50 PM, Korashk wrote:
VTL headphonegut

I was a serious player when you started playing and you always acted like badger (which is bad). From my limited knowledge of the current state of the game you still act like that, so I'm "Zets Rule"-ing you.

Gute Abend and use English.
Most people here do not understand any Japanese so even something as simple as Zetsubou (Despair) will go right over their heads.

As for HPG; he is completely brain dead. For the most part, it's better to just treat it like he's not here.

http://media.tumblr.com...
#UnbanTheMadman

#StandWithBossy

#BetOnThett

"bossy r u like 85 years old and have lost ur mind"
~mysteriouscrystals

"I've honestly never seen seventh post anything that wasn't completely idiotic in a trying-to-be-funny way."
~F-16

https://docs.google.com...
SeventhProfessor
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2/27/2015 6:38:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
So this setup is super interesting. So, a group of three to five (however many scum there are) townies could joint win with the mafia, correct? With no TPs that means one less thing to worry about, and gives us a little more room to mislynch.

Since the game is game theory themed, I'm assuming Bullish read that paper going around (http://arxiv.org...) about how the ideal amount of scum in a game of mafia to provide an equal chance of winning for both sides is the square root of the total number of players. This is assuming all vanilla/goon, but if the roles are balanced it should still be the same.

So, we're looking at Bullish knowingly making it 4-11 with a slight scum advantage of 3-12 with a slightly larger town advantage. I'll guess 4-11, since town gets three mislynches before LYLO as opposed to 3-12's 4. Three is a big enough mislynch count for no scum, four would be ridiculous.

We should probably get a few claims, but daytona's only making one post with a question that was quickly answered and not responding is suspicious. Also lannan's played with HPG several times in the current beginners series, so big FOS on that.
#UnbanTheMadman

#StandWithBossy

#BetOnThett

"bossy r u like 85 years old and have lost ur mind"
~mysteriouscrystals

"I've honestly never seen seventh post anything that wasn't completely idiotic in a trying-to-be-funny way."
~F-16

https://docs.google.com...
That1User
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2/27/2015 6:45:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 6:38:07 PM, SeventhProfessor wrote:
So this setup is super interesting. So, a group of three to five (however many scum there are) townies could joint win with the mafia, correct? With no TPs that means one less thing to worry about, and gives us a little more room to mislynch.

Since the game is game theory themed, I'm assuming Bullish read that paper going around (http://arxiv.org...) about how the ideal amount of scum in a game of mafia to provide an equal chance of winning for both sides is the square root of the total number of players. This is assuming all vanilla/goon, but if the roles are balanced it should still be the same.

So, we're looking at Bullish knowingly making it 4-11 with a slight scum advantage of 3-12 with a slightly larger town advantage. I'll guess 4-11, since town gets three mislynches before LYLO as opposed to 3-12's 4. Three is a big enough mislynch count for no scum, four would be ridiculous.

We should probably get a few claims, but daytona's only making one post with a question that was quickly answered and not responding is suspicious. Also lannan's played with HPG several times in the current beginners series, so big FOS on this.

I like this observation here Seventh. At the main crux of this game is whether town decides to work together and win collectively or play pro-mafia individually and try to win when mafia makes up half of the living players. Since this is not a standard winning condition, I don't think standard metas will apply here. Because of the victory condition the main concerns for town is:
1) Who is scum?
2) What town members side with scum?
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SeventhProfessor
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2/27/2015 6:53:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 6:45:46 PM, That1User wrote:
At 2/27/2015 6:38:07 PM, SeventhProfessor wrote:
So this setup is super interesting. So, a group of three to five (however many scum there are) townies could joint win with the mafia, correct? With no TPs that means one less thing to worry about, and gives us a little more room to mislynch.

Since the game is game theory themed, I'm assuming Bullish read that paper going around (http://arxiv.org...) about how the ideal amount of scum in a game of mafia to provide an equal chance of winning for both sides is the square root of the total number of players. This is assuming all vanilla/goon, but if the roles are balanced it should still be the same.

So, we're looking at Bullish knowingly making it 4-11 with a slight scum advantage of 3-12 with a slightly larger town advantage. I'll guess 4-11, since town gets three mislynches before LYLO as opposed to 3-12's 4. Three is a big enough mislynch count for no scum, four would be ridiculous.

We should probably get a few claims, but daytona's only making one post with a question that was quickly answered and not responding is suspicious. Also lannan's played with HPG several times in the current beginners series, so big FOS on this.

I like this observation here Seventh. At the main crux of this game is whether town decides to work together and win collectively or play pro-mafia individually and try to win when mafia makes up half of the living players. Since this is not a standard winning condition, I don't think standard metas will apply here. Because of the victory condition the main concerns for town is:
1) Who is scum?

As with every game

2) What town members side with scum?

But should town waste time lynching these players? You're forgetting town doesn't know who scum is, so the most significant help they could give them would be, say, waiving their night action. And to even make scum know they'd have to say they did it in the DP, along with a message like "no worries scum I got your back", which would really cause anger from the town.

The only way townies could fulfill that wincon is being inactive enough to not be NK'd, yet active enough to avoid a lynch. I say we focus on lynching scum before anything else.
#UnbanTheMadman

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Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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2/27/2015 7:05:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 6:45:46 PM, That1User wrote:
At 2/27/2015 6:38:07 PM, SeventhProfessor wrote:
So this setup is super interesting. So, a group of three to five (however many scum there are) townies could joint win with the mafia, correct? With no TPs that means one less thing to worry about, and gives us a little more room to mislynch.

Since the game is game theory themed, I'm assuming Bullish read that paper going around (http://arxiv.org...) about how the ideal amount of scum in a game of mafia to provide an equal chance of winning for both sides is the square root of the total number of players. This is assuming all vanilla/goon, but if the roles are balanced it should still be the same.

So, we're looking at Bullish knowingly making it 4-11 with a slight scum advantage of 3-12 with a slightly larger town advantage. I'll guess 4-11, since town gets three mislynches before LYLO as opposed to 3-12's 4. Three is a big enough mislynch count for no scum, four would be ridiculous.

We should probably get a few claims, but daytona's only making one post with a question that was quickly answered and not responding is suspicious. Also lannan's played with HPG several times in the current beginners series, so big FOS on this.

I like this observation here Seventh. At the main crux of this game is whether town decides to work together and win collectively or play pro-mafia individually and try to win when mafia makes up half of the living players. Since this is not a standard winning condition, I don't think standard metas will apply here. Because of the victory condition the main concerns for town is:
1) Who is scum?
2) What town members side with scum?

I don't think the alternate win condition for each town player should even be a factor on intelligent players minds until the game is much closer than it can possibly be on the first couple of day phases. Despite being phrased as an "OR" condition, it is actually an "AND" condition. If the town as a whole wins this game every town player, living and dead, wins with them.

The additional condition only applies in the event that the Mafia emerges victorious. At this point in the game it is unequivocally in all town player's interests to assist the town, and in my opinion it will always be this clear-cut; even in later stages of the game.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
SeventhProfessor
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2/27/2015 7:05:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Sorry I gotta go so quickly. I've got school tomorrow and have to work on a project, but will be more active at 4-ish EST.
#UnbanTheMadman

#StandWithBossy

#BetOnThett

"bossy r u like 85 years old and have lost ur mind"
~mysteriouscrystals

"I've honestly never seen seventh post anything that wasn't completely idiotic in a trying-to-be-funny way."
~F-16

https://docs.google.com...
SeventhProfessor
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2/27/2015 7:08:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 7:05:04 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 2/27/2015 6:45:46 PM, That1User wrote:
At 2/27/2015 6:38:07 PM, SeventhProfessor wrote:
So this setup is super interesting. So, a group of three to five (however many scum there are) townies could joint win with the mafia, correct? With no TPs that means one less thing to worry about, and gives us a little more room to mislynch.

Since the game is game theory themed, I'm assuming Bullish read that paper going around (http://arxiv.org...) about how the ideal amount of scum in a game of mafia to provide an equal chance of winning for both sides is the square root of the total number of players. This is assuming all vanilla/goon, but if the roles are balanced it should still be the same.

So, we're looking at Bullish knowingly making it 4-11 with a slight scum advantage of 3-12 with a slightly larger town advantage. I'll guess 4-11, since town gets three mislynches before LYLO as opposed to 3-12's 4. Three is a big enough mislynch count for no scum, four would be ridiculous.

We should probably get a few claims, but daytona's only making one post with a question that was quickly answered and not responding is suspicious. Also lannan's played with HPG several times in the current beginners series, so big FOS on this.

I like this observation here Seventh. At the main crux of this game is whether town decides to work together and win collectively or play pro-mafia individually and try to win when mafia makes up half of the living players. Since this is not a standard winning condition, I don't think standard metas will apply here. Because of the victory condition the main concerns for town is:
1) Who is scum?
2) What town members side with scum?

I don't think the alternate win condition for each town player should even be a factor on intelligent players minds until the game is much closer than it can possibly be on the first couple of day phases. Despite being phrased as an "OR" condition, it is actually an "AND" condition. If the town as a whole wins this game every town player, living and dead, wins with them.

I think it means you basically get converted to a TP joint win survivor if you make it to the end. But I definitely agree that we shouldn't focus on that yet, if at all this game.

The additional condition only applies in the event that the Mafia emerges victorious. At this point in the game it is unequivocally in all town player's interests to assist the town, and in my opinion it will always be this clear-cut; even in later stages of the game.

Agreed
#UnbanTheMadman

#StandWithBossy

#BetOnThett

"bossy r u like 85 years old and have lost ur mind"
~mysteriouscrystals

"I've honestly never seen seventh post anything that wasn't completely idiotic in a trying-to-be-funny way."
~F-16

https://docs.google.com...
lannan13
Posts: 23,111
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2/27/2015 7:09:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Hey I'm just popping in to say that I'm going to be working on a few of my debates and then I'll get to the mafia game.
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