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Should you use every second of the deadline?

F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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3/25/2015 8:11:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Personally, I dislike the type of arguments that propose that all of the time in a DP needs to be used before a lynch can be agreed upon.

For instance, if a DP lasts 72 hours, it is really necessary to use every second of it and only hammer right at deadline?

I actually think there is value in the converse: lynching early typically means less posts which makes it easier and re-read the game during later day phases. It also helps more people stay caught up by reducing clutter.

At a point when the majority have agreed on a lynch and there is unanimous concensus, it is more beneficial to move on, have the information from the flip, and resume analysis the following day with that new information.

There is a limited amount of productive analysis town can make without additional information.

There is an argument that everyone ought to "weigh in" before a lynch is achieved. But it doesn't help situations where concensus has already been reached. Why would more people need to weigh in on a foregone conclusion?
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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3/25/2015 8:22:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I heard dp's that last the entire time is why drafter left.

I also prefer shorter dp's. Longer dp's allow more time for clutter, mafia manipulation, and unnecessary changes of heart. Get the consensus, get the flip, and keep it moving.
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YYW
Posts: 36,256
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3/25/2015 9:36:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/25/2015 8:11:11 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Personally, I dislike the type of arguments that propose that all of the time in a DP needs to be used before a lynch can be agreed upon.

For instance, if a DP lasts 72 hours, it is really necessary to use every second of it and only hammer right at deadline?

I think it depends on what happens. If the town has done what the town should do on DP1, then it's ok to lynch early... but if a course of action hasn't been decided on, I think it should be extended.

At a point when the majority have agreed on a lynch and there is unanimous concensus, it is more beneficial to move on, have the information from the flip, and resume analysis the following day with that new information.

I agree.

There is a limited amount of productive analysis town can make without additional information.

I agree with that too, but I think that if a person is going to be lynched they should have a chance to talk before being lynched.
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FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
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3/26/2015 10:27:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think that rushing a lynch is a huge problem and very harmful to towns. That doesn't mean I think towns should never lynch early. I agree that towns should hammer before deadline sometimes. If there's unanimous consensus about the lynch -- i.e. if there's no need for further discussion -- then sure go ahead and end the DP. I have no problem with that. But too many times, towns rush lynches. I'm not gonna find examples right now but I've seen it happen many times, and I think it's extremely harmful to towns when it happens.

Example 1: If the person getting lynched hasn't claimed role yet, or hasn't posted anything since he's been pressured, there's no harm in waiting for him to claim. He might be an innocent child. He might have a useful day role (day cop, or day vig, or whatever). His role could be critical to the town's success. Or maybe he has relevant information from his role. There's no harm waiting for a claim from someone that might be night-killed anyway because of her role.

Example 2: The lynch goes through before some players have posted ANYTHING in the DP. This has happened to me before many times, where a lynch (usually a mislynch) goes through and I haven't even had a chance to post yet. This is bad for a number of reasons. There might be results or role information relevant to the rushed lynch. Also, you deprive the town of behavioral information related to the lynch. I think the reads and decisions folks make in relation to a lynch is important information. I want to know what someone thinks about the lynch BEFORE it goes through, because then I can evaluate that information to refine my read on that player.

F-16 says that reducing clutter is more important. I agree that reducing clutter is important but it's not THAT important, and even if it were, there's other ways to reduce clutter. If you've said what you need to say for the DP, stop posting. There's no need to discuss stuff if you've said everything you plan to say for the DP. I agree that there's no need to clutter games while waiting for others. That's something I can get behind, which has the SAME effect that F-16 wants, without introducing a massive element of risk and uncertainty. There's risks in lynching early before someone has claimed, or before someone has posted anything. I'd rather wait and mitigate that risk than rush a lynch.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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3/26/2015 10:33:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
In example 1, Get a claim, then lynch is fair.

I think you overstate the problems of example 2: I don't think town should rush to lynch as soon as the day opens but once the day has gone on long enough to achieve a concensus, waiting is pointless. This especially holds true if there are hundreds of posts worth of analysis. At that point, it is unlikely analysis will improve without info from flips.

I agree with that there are other ways to reduce clutter. Not using every second of the clock is one of them.
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
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3/26/2015 10:41:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/26/2015 10:33:22 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
In example 1, Get a claim, then lynch is fair.

I'm glad you changed your mind at least on this point.

I think you overstate the problems of example 2: I don't think town should rush to lynch as soon as the day opens but once the day has gone on long enough to achieve a concensus, waiting is pointless. This especially holds true if there are hundreds of posts worth of analysis. At that point, it is unlikely analysis will improve without info from flips.

The analysis point refers to folks who've not had a chance to post. Yes, you can have thousands of posts, but if they're all from the same few people, it doesn't tell me anything about the players who've not posted yet.

Also, it's not just analysis but relevant role information. I've seen games where someone has an innocent on someone, or a guilty on someone else, but is waiting to give his results because he's trying to get more information from them. What if a mislynch goes through before he or she has a chance to post that result?

I agree with that there are other ways to reduce clutter. Not using every second of the clock is one of them.

Yea, and that METHOD of reducing clutter also introduces unnecessary risks which could harm the town. I've seen town fvck itself over by rushing lynches. I'd rather avoid that.

Just stop posting after you've decided where your vote is going. That's how you reduce clutter.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/26/2015 8:45:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/25/2015 8:11:11 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Personally, I dislike the type of arguments that propose that all of the time in a DP needs to be used before a lynch can be agreed upon.

For instance, if a DP lasts 72 hours, it is really necessary to use every second of it and only hammer right at deadline?

I actually think there is value in the converse: lynching early typically means less posts which makes it easier and re-read the game during later day phases. It also helps more people stay caught up by reducing clutter.

At a point when the majority have agreed on a lynch and there is unanimous concensus, it is more beneficial to move on, have the information from the flip, and resume analysis the following day with that new information.

There is a limited amount of productive analysis town can make without additional information.

There is an argument that everyone ought to "weigh in" before a lynch is achieved. But it doesn't help situations where concensus has already been reached. Why would more people need to weigh in on a foregone conclusion?

There can be advantages and disadvantages. If a lynch target is already clearly established, it can lead to information being outed that wouldn't have been outed if the lynched was done form the getgo. You can end up with doctors, cops, and vigs outed in this manner, which can really help mafia. I am more for utilizing the time as the game moves on, so less so in DP1 and more so in DP4. You'll have more actual data to go over and comb through to find scum so you need the time. On DP1, you are halfway making stuff up and building arguments on the foundation of air.
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