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Pantheon on Park Avenue DP3

Skepsikyma
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3/31/2015 8:11:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Persephone was thin, barely a girl, with alabaster skin and a haze of smokey, silver-blonde hair. Dried flowers decorated her dress. Her mother, dead. Her husband, her accursed husband, dead. She was speaking to the shadows and they were whispering back, the harsh assibilations sifting through the dancing torchlight and the thick scent of burning aconite. My lady" there is no help for you in me. My power fades as well. Flee, and you condemn yourself. I have seen your face at the break of morning. I understand" what you did. Stand and face it now.

The flame guttered, and a shadow flashed with no one to cast it, then all was dark. She looked at the empty sky, filled with a brown electric haze by this city, this beast that sat drinking starlight into its open veins. They surrounded her, those old familiar faces, like the bars of a prison. Red silk on copper skin, like a thin sheen of blood on a statuette, lacquered lips curved in a bemused smile. A stern gaze and a haughty posture. Golden-haired and beautiful youth, with the eyes of a sage. She swallowed, and met the eyes of her executioner with determination as he approached. His powerful arms plucked her from the ground like a rag doll, and the crowd looked on with solemn judgement.

~ * ~

Hera entered her boudoir, and let down her hair, long waves of jet tumbling down her back. Her files lay open on her desk, pictures of the corpses, alibis, and contacts across the city amidst jeweled figurines. She would finish in the morning: the details were finally coming together. Of course the girl was the source of the poison. She frowned; her husband was out late again. He was taking advantage of her distraction. Never mind, she would deal with it once this was wrapped up"

She doffed her robe, stepped into the marble shower, and luxuriated in the hot water. Then there was a sputter, and the sizzle of searing flesh as smoky gray water replaced the clean. She began to scream.

Lynched Last DP:

EndarkenedRationalist: You are Persephone (Mafia)

Your demesne is the judgement of the dead, vernal vegetation, and the curses of the dead. Thus, you are a 1x FRAMER, 1x LAWYER and 1x POISONER. Poisoning a player causes them to die during the next DP, regardless of protection. If you choose to poison a player, the mafia cannot perform an NK that NP.

Dead in the Night:

YYW: You are Hera (Town)

Your demesne is marriage, and hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Thus, you are the BRUTAL COP, and may investigate one character each night while also roleblocking them.

Living Players:
1. BlackVoid
2. Medic
3. Ore_Ele
4. Daltonian
5. Khaos_Mage
6. Raisor
7. XLAV/Wylted
8. F-16
9. Bull_Diesel

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

This DP will end: 8:10 02Apr2015 (DP CHANGED TO 48 HOURS)
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Raisor
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3/31/2015 8:21:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
1. BlackVoid
2. Medic - town
3. Ore_Ele
4. Daltonian - town
5. Khaos_Mage - town
6. Raisor - town
7. XLAV/Wylted
8. F-16
9. Bull_Diesel - town

VTL Blackvoid for full claim
Raisor
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3/31/2015 8:35:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 8:23:13 PM, Wylted wrote:
VTL Bull for not being a team player.

What does this mean?

Do you think Bull is scum?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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3/31/2015 8:38:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 8:35:43 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 3/31/2015 8:23:13 PM, Wylted wrote:
VTL Bull for not being a team player.

What does this mean?

Do you think Bull is scum?

Yes he is, and it doesn't help that he wasn't being a team player. He had ER on his scumlist (if I am not mistaken), and then mysteriously when it is time to lynch him he disappears. We risked a no lynch last DP, because of Bull's actions.
Raisor
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3/31/2015 8:40:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 8:38:57 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 3/31/2015 8:35:43 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 3/31/2015 8:23:13 PM, Wylted wrote:
VTL Bull for not being a team player.

What does this mean?

Do you think Bull is scum?

Yes he is, and it doesn't help that he wasn't being a team player. He had ER on his scumlist (if I am not mistaken), and then mysteriously when it is time to lynch him he disappears. We risked a no lynch last DP, because of Bull's actions.

Who else is scum?
Wylted
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3/31/2015 8:42:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I want to know why Bull did not help progress the game. If you don't want to help in town directed lunches you will be a target for repercussions.
Daltonian
Posts: 4,797
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3/31/2015 8:44:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Thoughts on ER's flip?

He must not have poisoned, or else someone would have died on DP2. Logically, I'd imagine he would have then used one of his other two abilities - the lawyer or the framer. Unless he used it on Bossy.

What reason could he have for not poisoning? Was one of his scummates very widely suspected, or likely to be copped by YYW?
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
Wylted
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3/31/2015 8:44:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 8:40:26 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 3/31/2015 8:38:57 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 3/31/2015 8:35:43 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 3/31/2015 8:23:13 PM, Wylted wrote:
VTL Bull for not being a team player.

What does this mean?

Do you think Bull is scum?

Yes he is, and it doesn't help that he wasn't being a team player. He had ER on his scumlist (if I am not mistaken), and then mysteriously when it is time to lynch him he disappears. We risked a no lynch last DP, because of Bull's actions.

Who else is scum?

I think Ore_El. Bull is a stronger read though, and Clav thinks you're more likely scum than Ore_el
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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3/31/2015 8:48:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 8:21:34 PM, Raisor wrote:
1. BlackVoid
2. Medic - town
3. Ore_Ele
4. Daltonian - town
5. Khaos_Mage - town
6. Raisor - town
7. XLAV/Wylted
8. F-16
9. Bull_Diesel - town

VTL Blackvoid for full claim

Why is Dalt town?
Raisor
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3/31/2015 8:52:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 8:48:24 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 3/31/2015 8:21:34 PM, Raisor wrote:
1. BlackVoid
2. Medic - town
3. Ore_Ele
4. Daltonian - town
5. Khaos_Mage - town
6. Raisor - town
7. XLAV/Wylted
8. F-16
9. Bull_Diesel - town

VTL Blackvoid for full claim

Why is Dalt town?

Honestly can't remember, I just remember I was pretty sure of it last DP lol.

Let's pressure BV for a claim though. Of thouse not listed as town, he is one of the two I most suspect.
Daltonian
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3/31/2015 8:54:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Would a mass character claim be anti-town at this point? Do all of the mafia have safe fake character claims, or was Zeus their only one? If it was, would they have wasted it on ER?

Fill in the blanks/correct errors:

1. BlackVoid - ???, ???
2. Medic - Hestia, ???
3. Ore_Ele - ???, ???
4. Daltonian - Poseidon, ???
5. Khaos_Mage - ???, Tracker
6. Raisor - ???, ???
7. XLAV/Wylted - Artemis, ???
8. F-16 - ???, ???
9. Bull_Diesel - Ares, JOAT
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
Daltonian
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3/31/2015 8:58:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 8:52:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 3/31/2015 8:48:24 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 3/31/2015 8:21:34 PM, Raisor wrote:
1. BlackVoid
2. Medic - town
3. Ore_Ele
4. Daltonian - town
5. Khaos_Mage - town
6. Raisor - town
7. XLAV/Wylted
8. F-16
9. Bull_Diesel - town

VTL Blackvoid for full claim

Why is Dalt town?

Honestly can't remember, I just remember I was pretty sure of it last DP lol.
http://www.debate.org...
Let's pressure BV for a claim though. Of thouse not listed as town, he is one of the two I most suspect.
Why? What happened to XLAV/Wylted?
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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3/31/2015 8:59:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I looked over the thread overnight and BlackVoid was one the players who I didn't have a strong townread on. There was one small thing that made me think he was town though.

Dalt on the other hand could easily be scum. None of his interaction with Endark is unlikely to come from scum. His initial suspicion of Endark DP1 felt like distancing - he was picking up on fairly weak reasoning. I should re-read DP2 to be sure but from memory, I recall him pushing on the Bull/Khaos dichotomy in lieu of Endark the scum-motive being to set up a double mislynch. He ultimately did vote Endark when support for Endark seemed stronger. I read through the entire DP1 searching for mentions of Endark as well as Endark's posts and ask myself, who is the most likely scum with him, and I come to Dalt. It is not that he ever townread Endark or refused to lynch him. His thoughts about Endark are consistent with knowing that Endark is scum.

From Endark's end, the rather absurd tying of YYW to Dalt and insisting that they are both town or both scum is weird as hell. We know YYW is town and Endark is scum. The clearest motive feels like Endark wanted suspicion of YYW if Dalt flipped scum and clearance of Dalt if YYW flipped town.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/31/2015 9:02:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'd love it if someone can provide a list of claims so far. I'll post the dead player list for convenience.

1) Korashk: You are Athena. (Town) - Lynched DP1
Your demesne is justice, law, and defensive strategy. Thus, you are the DEFENSIVE JOAT. You possess a 1x DOCTOR, 1x BULLETPROOF (consumed reflexively), and 1x BODYGUARD.

2) bossyburito: You are Demeter (Town) - Killed NP1
Your demesne is agriculture, life, and sacred law. Thus, you are the DOCTOR, and may protect one player each night from the NK.

3) FT/Mikal: You are Hades (Town) - Killed NP1
Your demesne is the dead, the deep places of the earth, and riches. Thus, you are the 1x VIGILANTE, and may choose to kill one player during the course of the game. However, life never ends with death. Upon entering your domain, that player will fall under your control, and their own vote will follow yours for the remainder of the game, making you the DOUBLEVOTER once a successful kill has been executed.

4) EndarkenedRationalist: You are Persephone (Mafia) - Lynched DP2
Your demesne is the judgement of the dead, vernal vegetation, and the curses of the dead. Thus, you are a 1x FRAMER, 1x LAWYER and 1x POISONER. Poisoning a player causes them to die during the next DP, regardless of protection. If you choose to poison a player, the mafia cannot perform an NK that NP.

5) YYW: You are Hera (Town) - Killed NP2
Your demesne is marriage, and hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Thus, you are the BRUTAL COP, and may investigate one character each night while also roleblocking them.
Raisor
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3/31/2015 9:06:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 8:59:15 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I looked over the thread overnight and BlackVoid was one the players who I didn't have a strong townread on. There was one small thing that made me think he was town though.

Dalt on the other hand could easily be scum. None of his interaction with Endark is unlikely to come from scum. His initial suspicion of Endark DP1 felt like distancing - he was picking up on fairly weak reasoning. I should re-read DP2 to be sure but from memory, I recall him pushing on the Bull/Khaos dichotomy in lieu of Endark the scum-motive being to set up a double mislynch. He ultimately did vote Endark when support for Endark seemed stronger. I read through the entire DP1 searching for mentions of Endark as well as Endark's posts and ask myself, who is the most likely scum with him, and I come to Dalt. It is not that he ever townread Endark or refused to lynch him. His thoughts about Endark are consistent with knowing that Endark is scum.

From Endark's end, the rather absurd tying of YYW to Dalt and insisting that they are both town or both scum is weird as hell. We know YYW is town and Endark is scum. The clearest motive feels like Endark wanted suspicion of YYW if Dalt flipped scum and clearance of Dalt if YYW flipped town.

Fine, especially since he is on. Put your vote where your mouth is though.

Unvote VTL Dalt for full claim/justification
Raisor
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3/31/2015 9:07:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 8:58:57 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 3/31/2015 8:52:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 3/31/2015 8:48:24 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 3/31/2015 8:21:34 PM, Raisor wrote:
1. BlackVoid
2. Medic - town
3. Ore_Ele
4. Daltonian - town
5. Khaos_Mage - town
6. Raisor - town
7. XLAV/Wylted
8. F-16
9. Bull_Diesel - town

VTL Blackvoid for full claim

Why is Dalt town?

Honestly can't remember, I just remember I was pretty sure of it last DP lol.
http://www.debate.org...
Let's pressure BV for a claim though. Of thouse not listed as town, he is one of the two I most suspect.
Why? What happened to XLAV/Wylted?

Claim plz : )
Daltonian
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3/31/2015 9:11:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 8:59:15 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I looked over the thread overnight and BlackVoid was one the players who I didn't have a strong townread on. There was one small thing that made me think he was town though.

Dalt on the other hand could easily be scum. None of his interaction with Endark is unlikely to come from scum. His initial suspicion of Endark DP1 felt like distancing - he was picking up on fairly weak reasoning. I should re-read DP2 to be sure but from memory, I recall him pushing on the Bull/Khaos dichotomy in lieu of Endark the scum-motive being to set up a double mislynch. He ultimately did vote Endark when support for Endark seemed stronger.
That's actually untrue. Support for ER was consistently the same throughout my switching the votes. My logic on Bull was under a wrong assumption about how the game mechanics worked and I instantaneously ditched it after clarification from the mod came about.

My vote on ER actually had strategic sway in determining where the wagon went, especially with people clarifying they would be willing to vote either way. If leaning towards voting for Bull at times warrants a scum read, you are guilty for having done it as well.
I read through the entire DP1 searching for mentions of Endark as well as Endark's posts and ask myself, who is the most likely scum with him, and I come to Dalt. It is not that he ever townread Endark or refused to lynch him. His thoughts about Endark are consistent with knowing that Endark is scum.
lol, what? I barely interacted with ER throughout the entire game, because his activity was extremely limited to tunnelling BV. From where do you draw this inference?

From Endark's end, the rather absurd tying of YYW to Dalt and insisting that they are both town or both scum is weird as hell. We know YYW is town and Endark is scum. The clearest motive feels like Endark wanted suspicion of YYW if Dalt flipped scum and clearance of Dalt if YYW flipped town.
Why did you place so much emphasis on ER's reads on me, but none on what clearly was far more of a priority to him the entire game, BV's supposed slip? You offer analysis and that ER's behaviour towards me must have some meaning or merit to analyze, yet offer nothing on the far more substantive behavioural gold mine between him and BV. It seems like selectively trying to find reasons to scum read me.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
Daltonian
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3/31/2015 9:11:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 9:07:14 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 3/31/2015 8:58:57 PM, Daltonian wrote:
At 3/31/2015 8:52:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 3/31/2015 8:48:24 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 3/31/2015 8:21:34 PM, Raisor wrote:
1. BlackVoid
2. Medic - town
3. Ore_Ele
4. Daltonian - town
5. Khaos_Mage - town
6. Raisor - town
7. XLAV/Wylted
8. F-16
9. Bull_Diesel - town

VTL Blackvoid for full claim

Why is Dalt town?

Honestly can't remember, I just remember I was pretty sure of it last DP lol.
http://www.debate.org...
Let's pressure BV for a claim though. Of thouse not listed as town, he is one of the two I most suspect.
Why? What happened to XLAV/Wylted?

Claim plz : )
No.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/31/2015 9:13:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 8:58:57 PM, Daltonian wrote:
Why? What happened to XLAV/Wylted?
What about them? The Endark lynch would not have happened if it wasn't for Wylted. There are the most obviously town players in the game. Are you suggesting Raisor should still suspect them after seeing Endark's flip?
Daltonian
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3/31/2015 9:14:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Again, just look at the way F-16 phrased that read.

He didn't solidly FOS me - rather, he said that "Dalt on the other hand could easily be scum."

Avoids taking a solidly defined position on the read, waits to see if a townie will pick it up, then hops on to it after.

I'm willing to be mislynched if that is what it takes for the rest of the town to see the scumminess within what is clearly the remaining scum pool.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
Daltonian
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3/31/2015 9:17:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 9:13:26 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 3/31/2015 8:58:57 PM, Daltonian wrote:
Why? What happened to XLAV/Wylted?
What about them? The Endark lynch would not have happened if it wasn't for Wylted. There are the most obviously town players in the game. Are you suggesting Raisor should still suspect them after seeing Endark's flip?
lol, you seem to be inferring unusual amounts of information from simplistic aspects of my behaviour. No, that was not what I was implying. I was actually just asking what happened to his XLAV and Wylted read ;)
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
Daltonian
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3/31/2015 9:21:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
In seriousness, though, I don't see where F-16's logic is coming from that yesterday's lynch solidly implicates Wylted as town. It might alleviate some suspicion, but absolve him from it entirely or even from questioning related to his affiliation seems like a major stretch.

For one, he never clearly defined or gave any reasoning behind any of the reads he gave throughout that entire DP, and maintained a clear stance of willingness to vote for either ER or Bull. It would be different if he constructed a comprehensive case on ER and actually lead town consistently and solely in that direction.

That being said, I think there were some town tells in his play, especially later in the DP.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/31/2015 9:22:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I've read DP1 closely but not DP2. I'll post analysis when I do that. This is primarily from memory.

Your initial interaction felt forced. An example is your post 78 (http://www.debate.org...). You FOS Endark for

1. responding to other townies
2. making short posts

You know very well that this is playstyle dependent, not alignment indicative. It feels like you jumped the gun to suspect him to create some distance.

I haven't ruled out BlackVoid as possible scum. I'm more confident on you. I'm analyzing his motivations. The way he was tying you and YYW together makes the most sense if you are scum.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/31/2015 9:25:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 9:21:34 PM, Daltonian wrote:
In seriousness, though, I don't see where F-16's logic is coming from that yesterday's lynch solidly implicates Wylted as town. It might alleviate some suspicion, but absolve him from it entirely or even from questioning related to his affiliation seems like a major stretch.

For one, he never clearly defined or gave any reasoning behind any of the reads he gave throughout that entire DP, and maintained a clear stance of willingness to vote for either ER or Bull. It would be different if he constructed a comprehensive case on ER and actually lead town consistently and solely in that direction.

That being said, I think there were some town tells in his play, especially later in the DP.

Nah, it was obvious. My recollection is that he was yelling for Endark's lynch most of the day. He was willing to compromise yes, but never in a way that felt scum-motivated. He respected XLAV and followed his read. I've seen that type of behavior plenty on mafiascum and it is almost always coming from town.
Wylted
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3/31/2015 9:27:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 9:15:58 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Oh, wait, Dalton did claim.
Unvote VTL XLAV/Wytled

WTF is wrong with you? Not going to happen. Vote to lynch, but don't vote for pressure. Why the hell would you want XLAV to our his role to the scum team?
Daltonian
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3/31/2015 9:28:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/31/2015 9:22:37 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I've read DP1 closely but not DP2. I'll post analysis when I do that. This is primarily from memory.

Your initial interaction felt forced. An example is your post 78 (http://www.debate.org...). You FOS Endark for

1. responding to other townies
2. making short posts
This is a manipulative summarization of what the intention of the post was. In Surprise Mafia, the bulk of Endark's activity consisted of him responding to inquiries of townies, and only under high pressure. Raisor and I were in the PM with him, urging him to get on at certain points. Rather than build comprehensive cases or engage in substantial interaction, he makes short and choppy posts that are often in response to direct criticism or questioning.

Contrast his play in the first half of Surprise (his interactions with Danielle) vs second half (as a replacement for Danielle)

You know very well that this is playstyle dependent, not alignment indicative.
Not true. Endark's play as town in Surprise Mafia, especially (as said above) with Danielle the DP (or maybe two) before his death was the raw opposite.
It feels like you jumped the gun to suspect him to create some distance.
And it'll probably feel like you jumped the gun on this FOS in a day or two.

I haven't ruled out BlackVoid as possible scum. I'm more confident on you. I'm analyzing his motivations. The way he was tying you and YYW together makes the most sense if you are scum.
Again, why did this stance on me/YYW stand out in Endark's behaviour for you to analyze, and not, you know, the other 80% that directly pertained to BV? You're either deep in confirmation bias in what you're analyzing, or selectively looking for things to incriminate me.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby