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Beginners' Mafia 37.1: DP1

bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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4/8/2015 10:12:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
THE DP SET-UP

https://docs.google.com...

Harder will be leading the DPs and I'll do the NPs. we may both do a little bit of each, but those will be our primary responsibilities this game.

LIVING PLAYERS

Voice
Yas
Val
Molon
Vaar
Saph
Krieg
Blah
Wylted
FT

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.
The DP ends at 10:00pm, DDO time, on 4/10/15.


Good luck!
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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FourTrouble
Posts: 12,777
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4/8/2015 10:31:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Hi all, I don't know most of you, and I'm happy to meet you. I hope you'll become great mafia players on the site.

I looked over the google doc, and given the nature of the game, we have two options for starting the game off. We could start with a random voting stage ("RVS") and develop meaningful discussion from that. The idea there would be to focus on behavioral evidence as we build towards our D1 lynch. The other option is a mass claim (i.e. a focus on roles instead of behavior).

I think since this is a beginner game, and since the game is probably imbalanced, it doesn't matter who wins. So we should make our focus on trying stuff out, understanding how mafia is played, and (hopefully) developing some skill at mafia. The most important skill is your ability to analyze behavior (at its core, that's what mafia's about), so I think the RVS-style opening would benefit you guys more in the long-term.
Sapphique
Posts: 4,119
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4/8/2015 11:14:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/8/2015 10:31:28 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
Hi all, I don't know most of you, and I'm happy to meet you. I hope you'll become great mafia players on the site.

Hi :) Happy to meet you too.

I looked over the google doc, and given the nature of the game, we have two options for starting the game off. We could start with a random voting stage ("RVS") and develop meaningful discussion from that. The idea there would be to focus on behavioral evidence as we build towards our D1 lynch. The other option is a mass claim (i.e. a focus on roles instead of behavior).

I think since this is a beginner game, and since the game is probably imbalanced, it doesn't matter who wins. So we should make our focus on trying stuff out, understanding how mafia is played, and (hopefully) developing some skill at mafia. The most important skill is your ability to analyze behavior (at its core, that's what mafia's about), so I think the RVS-style opening would benefit you guys more in the long-term.

So do we just pressure someone completely at random?
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
Krieg01
Posts: 1,131
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4/8/2015 11:19:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/8/2015 10:31:28 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
Hi all, I don't know most of you, and I'm happy to meet you. I hope you'll become great mafia players on the site.

I looked over the google doc, and given the nature of the game, we have two options for starting the game off. We could start with a random voting stage ("RVS") and develop meaningful discussion from that. The idea there would be to focus on behavioral evidence as we build towards our D1 lynch. The other option is a mass claim (i.e. a focus on roles instead of behavior).

I think since this is a beginner game, and since the game is probably imbalanced, it doesn't matter who wins. So we should make our focus on trying stuff out, understanding how mafia is played, and (hopefully) developing some skill at mafia. The most important skill is your ability to analyze behavior (at its core, that's what mafia's about), so I think the RVS-style opening would benefit you guys more in the long-term.

Hi to you too. :)
How come when I hit review it sometimes adds my post without me clicking add post?
Does this happen to other people?

#LEARN TO SPEAK UP
#Cause I can
Learn to use emoticons DDO.
Krieg01
Posts: 1,131
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4/8/2015 11:20:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/8/2015 11:14:41 PM, Sapphique wrote:
At 4/8/2015 10:31:28 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
Hi all, I don't know most of you, and I'm happy to meet you. I hope you'll become great mafia players on the site.

Hi :) Happy to meet you too.

I looked over the google doc, and given the nature of the game, we have two options for starting the game off. We could start with a random voting stage ("RVS") and develop meaningful discussion from that. The idea there would be to focus on behavioral evidence as we build towards our D1 lynch. The other option is a mass claim (i.e. a focus on roles instead of behavior).

I think since this is a beginner game, and since the game is probably imbalanced, it doesn't matter who wins. So we should make our focus on trying stuff out, understanding how mafia is played, and (hopefully) developing some skill at mafia. The most important skill is your ability to analyze behavior (at its core, that's what mafia's about), so I think the RVS-style opening would benefit you guys more in the long-term.

So do we just pressure someone completely at random?

Yes that is pretty much it. Mainly to get a claim for character or role. Although in this case it would be role.
How come when I hit review it sometimes adds my post without me clicking add post?
Does this happen to other people?

#LEARN TO SPEAK UP
#Cause I can
Learn to use emoticons DDO.
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,777
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4/8/2015 11:26:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The idea is to pressure folks until some meaningful discussion emerges from the fray. I'll start us off:

Vote Wylted

The vote can be for anything. It could be for pressure, for a character, a role, or for death. I like voting for death, but I'm a bloodthirsty guy.

You can vote anyone. You can then analyze how people vote. Ideally, we want to create wagons (more than one vote), so that we can analyze the wagons. How many scum are on the wagon? Is the guy being wagon'd town? You start asking questions about behaviors and motives, and that's how you get the game going.

Also, note, it's okay to grasp at straws at the start, because that's how you get the discussion going. Your reasoning should become better as the game goes on, and you should evaluate the reasoning of others on that basis, too. If someone's voting X for terrible reasons on D3, then there's something wrong there. But terrible reasons at the start of D1 are more acceptable or at least understandable.
Krieg01
Posts: 1,131
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4/8/2015 11:33:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/8/2015 11:26:41 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
The idea is to pressure folks until some meaningful discussion emerges from the fray. I'll start us off:

Vote Wylted

The vote can be for anything. It could be for pressure, for a character, a role, or for death. I like voting for death, but I'm a bloodthirsty guy.

You can vote anyone. You can then analyze how people vote. Ideally, we want to create wagons (more than one vote), so that we can analyze the wagons. How many scum are on the wagon? Is the guy being wagon'd town? You start asking questions about behaviors and motives, and that's how you get the game going.

Also, note, it's okay to grasp at straws at the start, because that's how you get the discussion going. Your reasoning should become better as the game goes on, and you should evaluate the reasoning of others on that basis, too. If someone's voting X for terrible reasons on D3, then there's something wrong there. But terrible reasons at the start of D1 are more acceptable or at least understandable.

Sounds like a plan, we'll start with wylted, going for claim. VTL Wylted

Are you going for claim or death?
How come when I hit review it sometimes adds my post without me clicking add post?
Does this happen to other people?

#LEARN TO SPEAK UP
#Cause I can
Learn to use emoticons DDO.
Krieg01
Posts: 1,131
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4/8/2015 11:37:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/8/2015 11:14:41 PM, Sapphique wrote:
At 4/8/2015 10:31:28 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
Hi all, I don't know most of you, and I'm happy to meet you. I hope you'll become great mafia players on the site.

Hi :) Happy to meet you too.

I looked over the google doc, and given the nature of the game, we have two options for starting the game off. We could start with a random voting stage ("RVS") and develop meaningful discussion from that. The idea there would be to focus on behavioral evidence as we build towards our D1 lynch. The other option is a mass claim (i.e. a focus on roles instead of behavior).

I think since this is a beginner game, and since the game is probably imbalanced, it doesn't matter who wins. So we should make our focus on trying stuff out, understanding how mafia is played, and (hopefully) developing some skill at mafia. The most important skill is your ability to analyze behavior (at its core, that's what mafia's about), so I think the RVS-style opening would benefit you guys more in the long-term.

So do we just pressure someone completely at random?

You should help VTL Wylted for a claim, or at least someone else, we need to be getting some info this DP.
How come when I hit review it sometimes adds my post without me clicking add post?
Does this happen to other people?

#LEARN TO SPEAK UP
#Cause I can
Learn to use emoticons DDO.
BLAHthedebator
Posts: 982
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4/9/2015 12:24:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
VTL Wylted

I guess we should just pressure...
I don't want a lot for Christmas
There is just one thing I need
I don't care about the presents
Underneath the Christmas tree
I just want you for my own
More than you could ever know
Make my wish come true
All I want for Christmas...
Is...
Youuuuuu
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,777
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4/9/2015 12:58:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The idea isn't just to pressure one person for a claim. We want to stir up discussion, and to have multiple options for lynching, so that we can create an environment where actions have meaning. That's the only way to force mafia to reveal themselves, because the mafia are forced to make decisions ("do I lynch x or y?"), which reveals either an informed or uninformed perspective.

I like that Wylted's coming under pressure, but I don't want you guys to think Wylted's the only option here.

Vote: Blah because the whole "I guess we should just pressure" bit lacks commitment.
BLAHthedebator
Posts: 982
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4/9/2015 1:42:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/9/2015 12:58:08 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
The idea isn't just to pressure one person for a claim. We want to stir up discussion, and to have multiple options for lynching, so that we can create an environment where actions have meaning. That's the only way to force mafia to reveal themselves, because the mafia are forced to make decisions ("do I lynch x or y?"), which reveals either an informed or uninformed perspective.

I like that Wylted's coming under pressure, but I don't want you guys to think Wylted's the only option here.

Vote: Blah because the whole "I guess we should just pressure" bit lacks commitment.

Oh fine...

Unvote
I don't want a lot for Christmas
There is just one thing I need
I don't care about the presents
Underneath the Christmas tree
I just want you for my own
More than you could ever know
Make my wish come true
All I want for Christmas...
Is...
Youuuuuu
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/9/2015 3:25:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/9/2015 1:42:37 AM, BLAHthedebator wrote:
At 4/9/2015 12:58:08 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
The idea isn't just to pressure one person for a claim. We want to stir up discussion, and to have multiple options for lynching, so that we can create an environment where actions have meaning. That's the only way to force mafia to reveal themselves, because the mafia are forced to make decisions ("do I lynch x or y?"), which reveals either an informed or uninformed perspective.

I like that Wylted's coming under pressure, but I don't want you guys to think Wylted's the only option here.

Vote: Blah because the whole "I guess we should just pressure" bit lacks commitment.

Oh fine...

Unvote

Don't be weak, you'll never build pressure if you remove your vote that easily.

I don't know if I want to pursue claims just yet, not against the inexperienced members, because they don't know when it's appropriate to not claim, I feel safer pursuing FT claim.

VTL FT

Another note, I don't like killing anyway DP1 in a beginner game, it feels shitty.
BLAHthedebator
Posts: 982
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4/9/2015 4:47:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
FOS FT. I'm suspicious that his help is to mask his affiliation for mafia
I don't want a lot for Christmas
There is just one thing I need
I don't care about the presents
Underneath the Christmas tree
I just want you for my own
More than you could ever know
Make my wish come true
All I want for Christmas...
Is...
Youuuuuu
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/9/2015 5:22:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/9/2015 4:47:31 AM, BLAHthedebator wrote:
FOS FT. I'm suspicious that his help is to mask his affiliation for mafia

Why would you FOS somebody and not put your vote on them?
Valkrin
Posts: 2,046
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4/9/2015 6:23:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I like FT taking charge and willing to help the new players learn more than anything.

What I DON'T like is some people blindly following him. FT is really good player and able to mask alignment well. Not saying he is scum, but I honestly feel that you can't just blindly trust him on everything he says that pertains to forcing x for claims or lynching y for death.

If he were to somehow prove his towniness, I may trust him in terms of who we should focus, since he is good in that regard as well. But as of now, I'm not blindly following him, and you guys probably should reconsider it too.

Not voting anyone yet, though.
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." - Vaarka
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/9/2015 6:32:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/9/2015 6:23:34 AM, Valkrin wrote:
I like FT taking charge and willing to help the new players learn more than anything.

What I DON'T like is some people blindly following him. FT is really good player and able to mask alignment well. Not saying he is scum, but I honestly feel that you can't just blindly trust him on everything he says that pertains to forcing x for claims or lynching y for death.

If he were to somehow prove his towniness, I may trust him in terms of who we should focus, since he is good in that regard as well. But as of now, I'm not blindly following him, and you guys probably should reconsider it too.

Not voting anyone yet, though.

Are you town?
Valkrin
Posts: 2,046
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4/9/2015 6:44:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/9/2015 6:32:20 AM, Wylted wrote:

Are you town?

Pointless.
Either way I'd say yes, so why would you ask me this?
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." - Vaarka
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/9/2015 6:57:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/9/2015 6:44:18 AM, Valkrin wrote:
At 4/9/2015 6:32:20 AM, Wylted wrote:

Are you town?

Pointless.
Either way I'd say yes, so why would you ask me this?

To see if you'd duck the question. Some people are uncomfortable with lying, and you have sucked it. I'd like at least a soft claim to your role. Is it active or passive?
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,573
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4/9/2015 7:24:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
VTL FT

He seems to be manipulating all of the noobs; he is using his experience to his advantage to gain the trust of the new players, and he is leading them to blindly "vote-to-lynch" others. We should try to corner him and at least get a claim.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,573
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4/9/2015 7:26:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
This manipulation seems scummy.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,573
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4/9/2015 7:39:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Aaaand, like all other Mafia games I have played, my mere presence results in the temporary death of every player in the current game.... How touching.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,573
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4/9/2015 7:40:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
This game is soooo inactive.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
21MolonLabe
Posts: 321
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4/9/2015 7:40:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/9/2015 7:39:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
Aaaand, like all other Mafia games I have played, my mere presence results in the temporary death of every player in the current game.... How touching.

That happened to me last game.
21MolonLabe
Posts: 321
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4/9/2015 7:47:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/9/2015 7:24:44 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
VTL FT

He seems to be manipulating all of the noobs; he is using his experience to his advantage to gain the trust of the new players, and he is leading them to blindly "vote-to-lynch" others. We should try to corner him and at least get a claim.

I agree that we should keep him pinned down. He is one of the more experienced players in the game, and I don't want him potentially using his influence to lead mislynches.
Valkrin
Posts: 2,046
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4/9/2015 7:50:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/9/2015 6:57:45 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/9/2015 6:44:18 AM, Valkrin wrote:
At 4/9/2015 6:32:20 AM, Wylted wrote:

Are you town?

Pointless.
Either way I'd say yes, so why would you ask me this?

To see if you'd duck the question. Some people are uncomfortable with lying, and you have sucked it. I'd like at least a soft claim to your role. Is it active or passive?

Horrible excuse to get my role.
If I had responded "yes" to your question, your obvious reply would be "well you could be lying. What makes me believe you are town?" or something along those lines. Had I responded "no", you would have taken the opportunity to lynch me.

Either way I would have been forced to reveal at least part of my role. Hence why I said it was a stupid question.

Simply asking me a question and me giving you an appropriate response is not enough to warrant me giving out parts of my role. So no thanks.
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." - Vaarka
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/9/2015 7:56:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/9/2015 7:50:50 AM, Valkrin wrote:
At 4/9/2015 6:57:45 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/9/2015 6:44:18 AM, Valkrin wrote:
At 4/9/2015 6:32:20 AM, Wylted wrote:

Are you town?

Pointless.
Either way I'd say yes, so why would you ask me this?

To see if you'd duck the question. Some people are uncomfortable with lying, and you have sucked it. I'd like at least a soft claim to your role. Is it active or passive?

Horrible excuse to get my role.
If I had responded "yes" to your question, your obvious reply would be "well you could be lying. What makes me believe you are town?" or something along those lines. Had I responded "no", you would have taken the opportunity to lynch me.

Either way I would have been forced to reveal at least part of my role. Hence why I said it was a stupid question.

Simply asking me a question and me giving you an appropriate response is not enough to warrant me giving out parts of my role. So no thanks.

You still haven't even answered of you're town or not. I'm getting some really scummy vibes from you. Why are you so defensive anyway?

unvote VTL VAL

I was asking if you had an active or passive role, but now I just want your role.
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,573
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4/9/2015 8:11:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/9/2015 7:50:50 AM, Valkrin wrote:
At 4/9/2015 6:57:45 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/9/2015 6:44:18 AM, Valkrin wrote:
At 4/9/2015 6:32:20 AM, Wylted wrote:

Are you town?

Pointless.
Either way I'd say yes, so why would you ask me this?

To see if you'd duck the question. Some people are uncomfortable with lying, and you have sucked it. I'd like at least a soft claim to your role. Is it active or passive?

Horrible excuse to get my role.
If I had responded "yes" to your question, your obvious reply would be "well you could be lying. What makes me believe you are town?" or something along those lines. Had I responded "no", you would have taken the opportunity to lynch me.

Either way I would have been forced to reveal at least part of my role. Hence why I said it was a stupid question.

That's the point. Wylted is doing this new, wonderful thing called "scumhunting." The whole point is to get you role out in the open to determine whether or not you are Town.

Simply asking me a question and me giving you an appropriate response is not enough to warrant me giving out parts of my role. So no thanks.

Like I said, he's scumhunting.

VTL Val.

Claim now.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.