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Borderlands Mafia : DP7

Mikal
Posts: 11,268
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4/20/2015 10:03:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Lynched Last DP


Rev

Rev : Master McCloud : You drive Atlas nuts. You are a intergalactic superhero that brags about your exploits to everyone you see. Atlas got tired of dealing with you, even though you are their employee. They sent you to the other edge of the galaxy where you continued to boast about your past exploits. You have a strong sense of justice and only fight evil, not knowing you are working for an evil corporation.

Due to your kind nature, you are the pacifist. You cannot hammer anyone with a lynching vote. You appear guilty to cop results. You win with the Atlas Corporation.

Quote -

"Would you like to hear a story"

_________________________________________________________________

Died in the night

FT


Dre Zed : You are the only doctor in Pandora and are a tad bit insane. You have shady dealings with most of the people in Pandora but work with the vault hunters directly in their efforts to take down the Atlas and Hyperion corporations. Even though you aren't a real doctor, your medical experiments have saved quite a bit of people and you tend to take on anyone that comes your way.

Thanks to being the only doctor in Pandora and how often you save people, you are the (1x) Reviver. One night phase you may pick a dead player and revive them. They will be back in play the next day phase. You win with people of Pandora.

Quote -

"I ain"t the best with words, but I just want ya to know I"m rootin" for ya out there. Jack kicked me outta my home back in Fyrestone -- it"s about time he got what"s comin" to him"

After you were recruited you win con changed to hyperion. You now win with the hyperion corp

Geo

Mad Moxxi - One of the sexiest women in Pandora, you play a character in front of people but are you real self behind doors. People often try to flirt with you, and sneak views of your hidden parts. You have dated everyone from Mordecai to Handsome Jack, even though you dumped both of them. You opened a bar in Sanctuary and you enjoy running it. While dating Jack you realized how crazy and murderous he was, and decided to help the vault hunters take him down

Because of how seductive you tend to be, you are the seducer. One night you may target one person and ask them any question about their night action and they fall under your spell and are forced to tell you the truth. You are taken in a private pm with them where you ask the question. The question has to be a general question (Ex , who did you target, did you do this, who did you visit). You win with the people of Pandora

Quote -

"I appreciate it, darling -- business hasn't been so hot since Hyperion rolled into town. They talk big about "cleaning up the wasteland" and "civilizing Pandora," but it really just comes down to two things: money, and control. And Hyperion wants both."

Graveyard

FT - Used to be town (Now Hyperion)
Geo - Town
Rev - Atlas
Yama -Town
YYW - Not Known
F-16 - Town
Wylted - Town
Ford - Hyperion
Seventh - Town
Xlav - Town
bull - TP Solo
Raisor - Hyperion
Skep - Town
Max (Khaos) - Town
Vot / Saph - Town

______________________________________________________________________

Living Players

1. Bluesteel
2. Ore ele
3. Dalt
4. Bossy

With 4 living players it takes 3 to lynch

______________________________________________

DP1 - http://www.debate.org...
DP2 - http://www.debate.org...
DP3 - http://www.debate.org...
DP4 - http://www.debate.org...
DP5 - http://www.debate.org...
DP6 - http://www.debate.org...
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/20/2015 10:42:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
(1) FT you suck for accepting the recruit. I really thought your play was town (hence why this two faction thing sucks).

(2) Guess the mafia factions offed each other.

(3) So much for the theory that Mikal considers mafia Pacifist to be bastard modding.

(4) imo, the lack of two NK on the first NP is explained by one of the factions trying to kill Dalt. The lack of any NK on the second NP was caused by them both trying to kill bull. And I can't explain why there was only one NK on NP5(?). They probably both targeted the same person. I also can't explain why there was only one mafia NK when bossy killed XLAV. Probably again, they tried to kill the same person or took another shot at Dalt.

(5) The last mafia is Ore. The second faction clears bossy (of the unexplained NK's). Dalt has played town and is the only explanation for the lack of NK's on at least one of the NP's. Mikal doesn't like vanillas, and mafia were given fake char claims. Vanilla is the most common mafia fake claim, and Tannis is a really minor character (in contrast to Lilith, Zer0, and Salvador -- all MAJOR main characters).

I'd like to hear from bossy and Dalt though before we act.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/20/2015 10:44:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Also, the kill on FT makes complete sense for Ore to do. FT was the one who most suspected Ore. I said I'd probably lynch bossy next, but the confirmation of two factions makes that a bad move. So Ore wouldn't have killed me because he was last on my suspicion list at many points last DP. And he wouldn't kill Dalt if Dalt was bulletproof. Bossy was his next best mislynch target, so no reason to kill bossy.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/20/2015 10:47:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 10:42:28 AM, bluesteel wrote:

(2) Guess the mafia factions offed each other.

lol oops. This makes no sense. Rev's faction killed FT. FT killed Geo (who no one really suspected at this point).
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/20/2015 10:49:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The only thing that is holding me back on Dalt is that his name appears in a block with Rev, raisor, and Ford on the living players list. But I can't think of any other explanation for NP1's lack of two kills, since I know I'm not mafia. It's gotta be Ore.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/20/2015 10:53:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The game makes complete sense now imo. As Ore said, FT's role was likely flavored to make a zombie who died again, which is why Wylted died after exactly 8 hours. He may have even knew he was going to die, again as Ore said, which is why he wanted to rush a lynch. If I targeted FT with my motivator role, the revive would have worked. Likewise, Skep's role was flavored to hurt town as well. Had I targeted Skep, perhaps his objects would have been more useful.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/20/2015 10:58:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
@Dalt

In case you still suspect me, I'd like to point out that raisor was clearly lying about a few things, given there was still someone left in his faction. I can't explain why he lied, but it couldn't have been because his faction rightly suspected me of being mafia, or FT would have continued to press that theory (since he was in raisor's faction). I'd guess he lied about who they tried to NK and was setting up a mislynch on me. He had to have tried to kill either you or both factions targeted bull that NP -- night phase 2 -- (and it would have been dumb honestly NOT to have both targeted bull, since we thought he was a full on watcher: a huge threat to both factions).
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/20/2015 11:01:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Also, FT not being an actual doctor clears Dalt to a great extent. And him wanting Dalt dead so badly is explained by them trying to kill Dalt before and failing. He made Dalt his primary target and claimed doctor (even though he was only reviver) to make Dalt look guiltier.

That said, I completely forgot that role confirmation is not affiliation confirmation. Dalt could be a mafia bulletproof.

DANGIT
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/20/2015 11:07:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
hm, Dalt could be mafia bulletproof. I don't know what other role the last mafioso would have. Rev's role confirms that mikal may have wanted to give Atlas roles they could use to confirm themselves.

That said, I don't know why Dalt would want *me* dead if he was mafia. It'd be better to try to kill the other faction. Mafia would have known that the kills were not caused by bossy, but because the other faction wasn't dead yet (because they knew for sure there were two factions). Ore seemed sure there were two factions based on the OP listing "Hyperion" and not "mafia." Ore wanted FT dead, and the WHOLE LAST DP, he focused ONLY on who had been recruited. Because he was able to figure out there was no cult and the last mafioso in Hyperion was a recruit. Which is why he wanted FT dead so badly.

I think based on both behavior and partially game/role analysis, it has to be Ore. Tannis is such a non-character. And I swear I've heard Mikal say that it's lame to have to put vanillas in games.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/20/2015 11:18:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
In case it wasn't clear, if Dalt were Atlas, he would know that I wasn't in the other faction because it would have been stupid for raisor to try to bus me like that. Although he could have thought it was a gambit to get me investigated if I was a Hyperion godfather. But that wasn't his reason for suspecting me. He thought I was *Atlas* with a redirector role, not that I was a Hyperion godfather.

Dalt seemed legitimately unsure who was Atlas or Hyperion. Thus, the last mafioso is Ore.

He'd also have no reason to go after me if he was mafia and thought I was town. Both factions had an incentive to get the other killed first. So he must have legitimately thought I was an Atlas godfather. If Dalt was the last mafia (Atlas) then he'd know I wasn't in his faction, and he'd know I probably wasn't in raisor's, so his attempt to lynch me makes no sense to me.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/20/2015 11:28:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Ugh I hate this. My stupid theory does look kind of accurate tho:

5. Dalt
6. Rev
7. ford prefect
8. Raisor

^3/4 scum so far were grouped together

And I did kind of feel like the whole Dalt/Rev interaction last DP was manufactured/contrived. And Dalt only went after Rev under significant pressure from me. And I felt like someone was feeding Rev answers, something I think Ore doesn't do as mafia. And Dalt never actually ended up being on Rev's lynch (although at this point that is clearly OMGUS, since the obvious move for scum was to be on Rev's lynch when he was the only lynch target that was likely to go through that DP).

I hate these decisions...
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/20/2015 11:34:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's Ore for sure

DP6 ended 3 hours ago. Dalt was last online 17 hours ago. Ore is online right now. Dalt couldn't have submitted the NK on FT.

It's Ore.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/20/2015 11:40:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
dangit, i guess it could be bossy. He's online right now...

NP3 bull and XLAV were killed. Vig is a convenient fake claim for a second faction, since the second kill could be used to confirm the Vig. Perhaps bossy waived NP1 so we'd think there was only one faction, and waived NP2 as well (and raisor tried to kill Dalt that NP, so no kills). Then bossy started killing once raisor outed two factions.

We never confirmed bossy could use his role during the DP. That would have been convenient at this point. It's also extremely suspicious that he killed XLAV *at night* because the day vig would have been more likely to confirm him as town.

wtf to this game . And I have no read on bossy's behavior.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/20/2015 11:43:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
wait yeah, them WAIVING makes waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy more sense about why there was only one NK NP1 and none NP2. Otherwise, we have to postulate that they tried to kill Dalt multiple times or happened to kill the same person on two different NP's, which seems HIGHLY unlikely.

it's bossy

lol (okay, take this with a grain of salt given how sure I just was about Ore, but it has to be bossy)
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/20/2015 11:44:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
My biggest hangup is why bossy would kill FT over me, since I was the one most suspicious of him. Maybe to frame Ore?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/20/2015 11:47:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
@Dalt

You said once that bossy would be an asset to the town cuz he's a good town player. Is he normally this inactive?

I at least town-read Ore at one point. I guess my current suspicion list would have to be: bossy, Ore, and Dalt in that order. But I'm still obviously trying to work through this....
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/20/2015 12:02:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Okay, activity clears Dalt, unless Rev submitted the NK...
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,542
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4/20/2015 12:10:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I like your one-sided conversation... do you do this in real life?
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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4/20/2015 12:36:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 12:33:05 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 4/20/2015 12:09:40 PM, YYW wrote:
#thatmomentwhenbluesteeltalkstohimself
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,542
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4/20/2015 12:38:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 12:09:40 PM, YYW wrote:
#thatmomentwhenbluesteeltalkstohimself
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
YYW
Posts: 36,233
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4/20/2015 12:39:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 12:10:21 PM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
I like your one-sided conversation... do you do this in real life?

You know he does lol
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,542
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4/20/2015 12:40:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 12:39:41 PM, YYW wrote:
At 4/20/2015 12:10:21 PM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
I like your one-sided conversation... do you do this in real life?

You know he does lol

Yeah. I wonder if he does it in real life.....
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/20/2015 12:41:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
EVERYONE HAS BEEN SILENCED. I'm all alone....

Actually, the way bossy outed his role seemed legit. That's a weird way to fake claim vig, to threaten to shoot Wylted.

Ore or bossy. It's about even right now.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/20/2015 12:46:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Weird NP's given two factions

NP1: only F-16 died (bull saw only me and Ford visit him)

NP2: no deaths

NP5: only Yama died

To explain this, either (1) mafia waived, or (2) they targeted Dalt NP1, they BOTH targeted Dalt NP2, and they both targeted Yama NP5 or one of them targeted Dalt and another targeted Yama NP5.

#2 makes no sense. It requires one of the factions to have tried to kill Dalt twice in a row, despite it failing. It has to be #1, hence bossy is mafia. He's the only one with an incentive to waive.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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4/20/2015 12:58:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 11:47:30 AM, bluesteel wrote:
@Dalt

You said once that bossy would be an asset to the town cuz he's a good town player. Is he normally this inactive?
No, but I've been inactive now because I've decided that I'm going to almost completely stop playing mafia. I've just grown completely tired of the game - I'll finish this one off, but I'm not going to sign up for another anytime soon.

It's a valid reason to scumread me.
I at least town-read Ore at one point. I guess my current suspicion list would have to be: bossy, Ore, and Dalt in that order. But I'm still obviously trying to work through this....
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/20/2015 1:02:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 12:58:35 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 4/20/2015 11:47:30 AM, bluesteel wrote:
@Dalt

You said once that bossy would be an asset to the town cuz he's a good town player. Is he normally this inactive?
No, but I've been inactive now because I've decided that I'm going to almost completely stop playing mafia. I've just grown completely tired of the game - I'll finish this one off, but I'm not going to sign up for another anytime soon.

It's a valid reason to scumread me.
I at least town-read Ore at one point. I guess my current suspicion list would have to be: bossy, Ore, and Dalt in that order. But I'm still obviously trying to work through this....

You gotta help me make this decision... What do you think of Ore? Why did you claim vig out of nowhere DP1. Weren't you afraid you'd be NK'ed? Are you really actually one shot? Why didn't you day kill XLAV the next DP to confirm your role instead of NKing him?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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4/20/2015 1:03:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 12:46:47 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Weird NP's given two factions

NP1: only F-16 died (bull saw only me and Ford visit him)

NP2: no deaths

NP5: only Yama died

To explain this, either (1) mafia waived, or (2) they targeted Dalt NP1, they BOTH targeted Dalt NP2, and they both targeted Yama NP5 or one of them targeted Dalt and another targeted Yama NP5.

#2 makes no sense. It requires one of the factions to have tried to kill Dalt twice in a row, despite it failing. It has to be #1, hence bossy is mafia. He's the only one with an incentive to waive.

That's totally wifom-based, though... Since the lack of nks directly implicates me (as evidenced by how you're pushing for my lynch), Mafia had a strong incentive to waive.

I'm starting to revert my scumread on you. Even after being called out on your bs logic, you keep using it - scum wouldn't play that sloppily. Given how you've basically cleared Dalt, that leaves Ore...

I want to hear his defence.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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4/20/2015 1:08:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/20/2015 1:02:56 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/20/2015 12:58:35 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 4/20/2015 11:47:30 AM, bluesteel wrote:
@Dalt

You said once that bossy would be an asset to the town cuz he's a good town player. Is he normally this inactive?
No, but I've been inactive now because I've decided that I'm going to almost completely stop playing mafia. I've just grown completely tired of the game - I'll finish this one off, but I'm not going to sign up for another anytime soon.

It's a valid reason to scumread me.
I at least town-read Ore at one point. I guess my current suspicion list would have to be: bossy, Ore, and Dalt in that order. But I'm still obviously trying to work through this....

You gotta help me make this decision... What do you think of Ore?
Even disregarding behavior, he's probably scum via POE. He's the only good choice left.
Why did you claim vig out of nowhere DP1.
You saw why. I knew that Wylted was an anti-town player and I wanted to force him to claim or die DP1 so he couldn't get a free pass.
Weren't you afraid you'd be NK'ed?
I thought the risk was worth it, plus I figured doc/watcher would go on me.
Are you really actually one shot?
Yes.
Why didn't you day kill XLAV the next DP to confirm your role instead of NKing him?

Because the utility of killing scum before they could use their role/influence the DP out weighed the benefit of proving a day kill, which wouldn't town-confirm me anyway.

I'm basically a confirmed killing role. I don't think it matters if I've shown that I kill in the night or day.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush