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Borderlands mafia : End Game

Mikal
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4/21/2015 4:22:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
No one post until this is done

First Place : Town
Second Place : Atlas
Third Place : Hyperion
Fourth Place : Bullish

Town :

Airmax (Khaos) -

Marcus Kincaid : One of the primary gun dealers in Pandora. You have next to no ethics, and definitely have no code of honor. You don't tolerate competition in Pandora, and anyone else that tires to sell on guns your turf is dealt with. You eliminate all competition in order to monopolize your gun sales. Although you are very greedy and tend to be harsh, you hate Handsome Jack. You generally share no affiliation and will sell guns to anyone that wants them, but upon the Hyperion Corporation invading Pandora you have developed a very close friendship with most of the vault hunters.

Due to the amount of guns that you own, and your aggressive nature you are the PGO. If anyone visits you at night, you kill them. You win with the people of Pandora.

Quote

"Jack"s monopoly on weapons is running me out of business. But that"s not why I want him dead. I want him dead because he"s a greedy, murdering sonofabitch who needs to die screaming. Good luck."

Saph/Vot

Roland : Originally a member of the Crimson Lance who turned vault hunter. Upon the Atlas Corporation and the Hyperion Corporation entering Pandora and becoming a threat, you took the remnants of the Crimson Lance and formed the Crimson Raiders. Promising the original members of the Lance that you would give them a reason to fight and that both Atlas and Hyperion needed to be stopped, you dedicated the rest of your life to fighting both Corporations.

You know about everything that happens in Pandora. Due to being the leader of the Crimson Raiders, and the vast amount of Intel that you get on a day to day basis you are the Cop. You can chose one person to investigate each night, and you will either receive an innocent or guilty result on them depending on affiliation. You win with the people of Pandora.

Quote

"This is a message to any Crimson Lance left on Pandora. General Knoxx is dead, and knowing the Lance, they're more likely to cut their losses and leave you here than send an extraction ship. So unless you wanna starve to death out there, you've got two options. One: you become bandits. Two: you join me in protecting the people of Sanctuary. I can offer you food, shelter, and the chance to fight for something real, something meaningful -- a chance I know the Atlas corporation never gave you. Roland, out"

Skep

Tiny Tina : Tina's parents were killed by the Hyperion corporation in a slag test experiment gone wrong. Tina escaped from the corporation using explosives she had hidden under her skirt, and then vowed to bring justice to the person that sold her and her parents to the Hyperion Corporation. After her escape she became an inventor and expert in explosives. Always coming up with new inventions and using innovative technology to complete her goals. She met the vault hunters, and works closely with them in their goal to stop the Hyperion Corp, but always tends to ask for reciprocation.

Due to your inventions and innovative ideas, you are the inventor. Each night you may invent one of three items, and give it to someone the following DP. This is a one shot ability and you can only create each item once. You have no idea what your items do until they are used by the person you give them too.

(Items can only be used by other players that receive them during day phases)

(1x) Item A
(1x)Item B
(1x)Item C

Quote

" Roland told me you were comin" -- I still owe him for all that buttcrap with General Rancid. So, you gotta hijack a train, hunh? Chiiiilds play! Lemme introduce you to my ladies. This here's Mushy Snugglebites, and this is Felicia Sexopants. These fiiiine-azz womens could stop that train for yas, but I'ma need their badonkadonks first, and they got stoled by the bandits a few days ago. Go get em! "

Bossy

Zer0 : Assassin for hire, and vault hunter. You will kill anyone for cash, and you are a sure shot sniper. People are not even sure if you are a human, but they know of your skills. You have a clouded past, and only Dr Tannis knows of your origins and your real name. You do however fight with the new set of vault Your use of a hologram in battle allows you to get the first strike in combat, and it tends to be fatal.

Due to your sniping ability , you are the (1x) Vig. At any point during the day or night phase you can shoot someone and kill them. If you shoot them during the day, the day phase ends.

Quote

"........"

Blue

Lilith : Originally born in Dionysus, you are now one of the most powerful sirens in Pandora. You have always worked next to Roland and are a Pivotal role in the Crimson Raiders. You were selfless enough to play the bad guy in order to protect sanctuary, and due to your efforts you drew a mass crowd of bloodshot bandits away from it in order to protect the people living there. You then adorned the name of fire hawk in a attempt to gain an advantage against the Hyperion Corporation. You true loyalty has always been with the vault hunters, and the people of Pandora and your sacrifices are reason enough for people to fight with conviction and courage.

Due to your sacrifices and ability to lead, you are the motivator. Once per night you may target one player, and if they have an action it will go through no matter what. You win with the people of Pandora

Quote - "Jack's making me charge the Vault Key. So here's what happens next. You find me. You kill Jack. And if you can't stop me from waking the Warrior? You put a bullet in my head"

f16

ClapTrap, the FR4G-TP : You have always supported the fault hunters, and are possibly one of the funniest characters in the game. Even though you helped the vault hunters, you ended up being reprogrammed in a attempt by Hyperion to exterminate them. Eventually the rebellion was stopped, and you even got to keep your free will. You again allied with the vault hunters in order to stop Jack. You have a natural hatred for Jack because he ended up destroying every other Clap Trap and ripped off your stair climbing wheel. Due to the effects of the rebellion, people still tend to have harsh feelings for your entire line of production.

Because of the harbored hatred people have for you, you are the Hated Townie. It takes one less vote to lynch you. You win with the people of Pandora.

Quote -

"This is it, minion. Our vengeance is finally at hand! LET'S TEAR THIS PLANET A NEW AZZHOLE! YAAAAAAGHHHHH! Hyperion's gonna regret ever setting foot on Pandora! Minion, I'm gonna get that door open so I can take care of that Handsome bastard myself! I'm not scared, Jack -- there's nothing you can dish out that I can't overcome! NOTHING! NOOOOO! DAMN YOU, STAIRS!"
Mikal
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4/21/2015 4:24:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Dalt

Salvador : At 5'4 and being 36 years old, you are a steroid using monster who has been in fights most of his life, and when you are in fights you are always in the front of them. You tend to take your aggression out on bandits, criminals, and people that threaten your loved ones. You do not tolerate injustice, and ended up fighting off a Hyperion force that invaded your home town of Ovejas. Due to your actions you were to be executed, but ended up killing of the entire squadron that was to execute and even got information about a new fault by force. This is how you met Roland and the Crimson Raiders. You fought along side them as a brethren in arms, and still maintained your sense of justice.

Due to you always being on the front line of fights, and because of the massive amount of damage you can absorb you are bulletproof. You are not effected by any killing actions in the game. You win with the people of Pandora

Quote -

" Killing bad guys is always fun "

xlav

Angel : Daughter of Handsome Jack, you were tethered into Pandora central database giving you absolute power of almost all technological things inside Pandora itself. You keep a watchful eye over the vault, and the events that occur in Pandora. You secretly hate your father because of everything he has done, but you are viewed as a bad guy for choices you made. You chose to betray the vault hunters in a attempt to get close to Jack so you could ultimately defeat him.

Due to your betrayal and the true intent of your goal you are the Miller. If you are investigated you will appear guilty. You win with the people of Pandora

Quote -

" Five years ago, I tricked Roland and his friends into opening the Vault. I told them it was to protect Pandora from a great evil. That was a lie. Jack knew he could make a fortune off the Eridium held within the Vault, but he was too much of a coward to open it himself. Through me, he got the vault hunters to do his dirty work.I am so tired of manipulating people. All these years, I told myself Jack had the planet"s best interests in mind. But what he just had me do to Sanctuary? To people he had never met, who had never done anything to him? He"s not a hero. He"s a murderer. And I won"t be his puppet anymore."

wylted

Blood Wing : Mordecais pet bird. You fight alongside Moredcai and can attack enemies from an aerial assault. You fly high in the sky, and even were captured by Hyperion and used against the vault hunters at one point. You take orders from others and generally follow peoples commands.

Because of your nature you are the Mandatory Visitor. Each night you are compelled to visit someone without choosing whom you can visit. You win with the people of Pandora.

(Unkown - Whoever Mordecai tracks, you visit. If mordercai dies you then become tracker)

Quote -

"Hey, amigo -- I"m sending my bird Bloodwing down to help ya out. Go get "em, Blood!....Caahhhh"

Yama

Mordecai : You are a master sniper, and also have a pet bird named Bloodwing. Bloodwing often takes to the skys and attacks others and can see anything coming from miles around. No one can escape you because of how proficient Bloodwing is at tracking. Your skillset has earned you the honor of being a spy in the crimson raiders.

Because of how good you are at tracking your prey and never letting them get away, you are the tracker. Each night you may track one person and see who they visit. You win with the people of Pandora

(Unknown - Whoever you track bloodwing visits. Upon bloodwings death you become vanilla)

Quote -

"I used to sit on the sidelines of the resistance. Deliver intel, get paid. No more. It's all or nothing now. Pandora ain't gonna be free until we end this, amigo"

Geo

Max Moxxi - One of the sexiest women in Pandora, you play a character in front of people but are you real self behind doors. People often try to flirt with you, and sneak views of your hidden parts. You have dated everyone from Mordecai to Handsome Jack, even though you dumped both of them. You opened a bar in Sanctuary and you enjoy running it. While dating Jack you realized how crazy and murderous he was, and decided to help the vault hunters take him down

Because of how seductive you tend to be, you are the seducer. One night you may target one person and ask them any question about their night action and they fall under your spell and are forced to tell you the truth. You are taken in a private pm with them where you ask the question. The question has to be a general question (Ex , who did you target, did you do this, who did you visit). You win with the people of Pandora

Quote -

"I appreciate it, darling -- business hasn't been so hot since Hyperion rolled into town. They talk big about "cleaning up the wasteland" and "civilizing Pandora," but it really just comes down to two things: money, and control. And Hyperion wants both."

7th

Maya - One of the new vault hunters, you were manipulated as a child into killing people that you did not want to kill. You found your way to Pandora in order to train your siren powers. You are a powerful siren that focuses on the elements of nature, and fought alongside the crimson raiders in order to stop Jack.

Due to your control of nature and your ability to control all types of elements, you can attack with multiple attacks. For this reason you are the double voter. Each time you cast a vote, it counts for 2 votes instead of 1. You win with the people of Pandora

Quote -

" Day two on Pandora. Nobody here's used to seeing a Siren. Half the people I"ve met wanna worship me -- the other half wanna turn me over to Hyperion. Still, it"s a nice change of pace from the abbey -- at least here, the bad guys stab you from the front. I haven"t found a shred of info about Sirens -- the closest I"ve got to a lead on Siren history are legends of an alien Vault. It"s not much to go on, but it"s something -- maybe if I find this Vault I"ll find out where the hell Sirens come from. Or maybe I"ll prove Brother Harker right and take a bullet to the head five minutes from now. We"ll see how my week goes. "
Mikal
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4/21/2015 4:28:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Atlas Corporation

Ore Ele : General Knoxx : You are the first commander of the crimson lance, who serves the Hyperion Corporation. You sought to to make the military branch of the Crimson Lance into a force that was world wide, and legitimate. Upon discovery of how Atlas was operating, you carried out your duties and sought to either leave or commit suicide. You served Atlas with tireless effort, even until your death and even as you lost faith in them.

Due to your nature you are the Godfather. You appear innocent to cop results and as a vanilla to role cop results. You served Atlas with tireless effort, but sought to leave upon learning more about the company. However nothing erases what you have done in the past. For now and forever, you win the Atlas Corporation .

YYW : Commandant Steele : Leader of the Crimson Lance force in Pandora, and Siren who is in search of ancient alien Remnants. You serve the Atlas Corporation in hopes of achieving your goal. You clean up anything they tell you to clean up, and carry out all tasks assigned to you.

Because of how efficiently you carry out tasks, you are the janitor. You can target one person during a nightphase, and it stops their results from being posted whenever they die. This is a (1x) ability. It stops their roll and character from being revealed for the rest of the game and once you chose someone your (1x) is gone. You appear guilty to cop results. You win with the Atlas corporation.

"I will finish my goal"

Rev : Master McCloud : You drive Atlas nuts. You are a intergalactic superhero that brags about your exploits to everyone you see. Atlas got tired of dealing with you, even though you are their employee. They sent you to the other edge of the galaxy where you continued to boast about your past exploits. You have a strong sense of justice and only fight evil, not knowing you are working for an evil corporation.

Due to your kind nature, you are the pacifist. You cannot hammer anyone with a lynching vote. You appear guilty to cop results. You win with the Atlas Corporation.

Quote -

"Would you like to hear a story"

Hyperion

Hyperion Corporation

Raisor : Handsome Jack - You are one sadistic son of a btch. You were a programmer in Hyperion until you took over it in a attempt to free the warrior. You have killed and tortured hundreds upon thousands of people in Pandora and have no emotion. After being confronted by the Guardian, you made it your purpose to free the warrior and purge Pandora. You have an array of abilities to use to stop the vault hunters

Due to all your skills, you are the Joat. You have 3 abilities all of which are (1x)

(1x) Role Block
(1x) Ninja
(1x) Redirect

You win with the Hyperion corporation. You appear guilty to cop results

Quote -

" Hey, kiddo. Jack here -- president of Hyperion. Lemme explain how things work here: Vault Hunter shows up. Vault hunter looks for the new vault. Vault Hunter gets killed. By me. Seeing the problem here? You're still alive. So, if you could just do me a favor and off yourself, that"d be great. Thanks, pumpkin. "

Willhelm - Jacks right hand man. You are always by jacks side and follow his orders. You carry out whatever he says mercilessly and have a great deal of power.

Due to your strength and power, you are the (1x) Strong man. Once when you target someone no active protective roll will stop them from dying.

You win with the Hyperion corporation. You appear guilty to cop results.

Quote -

" I like steak and robots. "

Bull

Athena : You were trained as assassin from birth, and worked as an assassin for hire. You worked with both the vault hunters and handsome jack at some points. Though your nature is to take any job for money, you also have a strong sense of justice. Though you helped jack rise to power, you stopped him from attaining power from the Guardian. You then were questioned by the vault hunters and escaped.

Because you work for hire and with both sides, you are the TP Joat / Survivor. You win if you survive to the end of the game. You do not joint win and must live to the end in order to win.

You have 3 abilities

(1x) Watch - Watch someone and see who visits them
(1x) Hide - Hide behind someone and no night actions affect you. If that person is killed during the np you hide behind them, you die as well.
(1x) Role Cop - Investigate someone and learn their roll , not their affiliation.

Quote -

""I don't kill people who aren't shooting at me"

__________________________________________

List of all DPS

DP1 - http://www.debate.org...
DP2 - http://www.debate.org...
DP3 - http://www.debate.org...
DP4 - http://www.debate.org...
DP5 - http://www.debate.org...
DP6 - http://www.debate.org...
DP7 - http://www.debate.org...
Mikal
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4/21/2015 4:31:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Night Actions

Copying my notes as there are to many. If you have questions ask

Np1

Active Actions

Vot - COP > Xlav > Result Guilty (Miller)
Bossy - Vig > Waive
Skep - Invent Item C > Receives Felicia Sexopants > Hold Item
Bull - Watch (1x) > F16 > Result You saw bluesteel and ford visit him
Bluesteel - Motivate > F16
Geo - Persuade - > Ford > Result ford visited f16

Null Actions

Yama no roll
Xlav miller
Seventh double voter
f16 hated
Dalt BP
Airmax PGO

Waiting on

Mafia night actions

Hyperion

FT - Revive Wylted > stops roll from being revealed if revived the same night as death or the night after a lynch as rolls are posted the next DP. The revive negates it
Raisor - ?
Ford - ?

Kill 16 goes through

Atlas

Ore - Godfather Null
Rev - pacifist Null
YYW - 1x Jan Waiting

Kill Raisor (fail because of atlas having even night kills)

Dead - Wylted - Revived

Np2

Np 2

Active Actions

Vot - COP > Self > Inno
Bossy - Vig > Waive
Bull - Hide > Bluesteel
Bluesteel - Motivate > (FT) > Redirect to geo
Skep - Give Sexopants > Seventh

Null Actions

Yama no roll
Xlav miller
Seventh double voter
Dalt BP
Airmax PGO
Geo

Waiting on

Mafia night actions

Atlas

Ore - Godfather Null
Rev - pacifist Null
YYW - 1x Jan (waive)

Kill > Even night kill on bull

Kill fails because bull hides behind blue, immune to all night actions

Hyperion

Raisor > Redirect bluesteel to geo
Ft > Null

(Nk bluesteel does not go through cause of odd night kills)

Dead

Wylted
F16
Ford

Np 3

Active Actions

Vot - COP > Inno
Bossy - Vig > Xlav
Bluesteel - Motivate > FT
Skep - Invent > A > Eridium

Null Actions

Yama no roll
Dalt BP
Airmax PGO
Geo

Waiting on

Mafia night actions

Atlas

Ore - Godfather Null
Rev - pacifist Null
YYW - 1x Jan > Jan self

Kill > Kill bull fails cause of odd night

Hyperion

Ft > Null

odd night kill, kill bull

(Nk bluesteel does not go through cause of odd night kills)

Dead

Wylted
F16
Ford
Raisor
Seventh
Bull
Xlav

Np4

Active Actions

Bluesteel - Motivate > FT

Null Actions

Yama no roll
Dalt BP
Geo
Bossy

Waiting on

Mafia night actions

Atlas

Ore - Godfather Null
Rev - pacifist Null
YYW - 1x Jan > null (perma janned)

Kill > goes through > skep

Hyperion

Ft > Null

kill fails > voice span > Goes through due to motivate

Dead

Vot
Skep
Wylted
F16
Ford
Raisor
Seventh
Bull
Xlav
Max (Khaos)

Np5

Active Actions

Bluesteel - Motivate > FT

Null Actions

Geo
Dalt BP
Bossy

Waiting on

Mafia night actions

Atlas

Ore - Godfather Null
Rev - pacifist Null

Kill fails > Geo

Hyperion

Ft > Null

kill goes through > yama

Dead

Yama
YYW
Vot
Skep
Wylted
F16
Ford
Raisor
Seventh
Bull
Xlav
Max (Khaos)

Np6

Active Actions

Bluesteel - Motivate > FT

Null Actions

Dalt BP
Bossy

Waiting on

Mafia night actions

Atlas

Ore - Godfather Null

Kill fails > Ft goes through

Hyperion

(dead)Ft > Null

kill goes through due to motivate from bs > geo

Dead

ft
geo
rev
Yama
YYW
Vot
Skep
Wylted
F16
Ford
Raisor
Seventh
Bull
Xlav
Max (Khaos)
bluesteel
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4/21/2015 4:36:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
lol ooops

I motivated all the mafia kills
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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4/21/2015 4:38:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Mod Notes

Town MVP - Bluesteel

This is not even debatable. He hit literally every single mechanic in game except for like 3. The only major mistake he made aws town reading ft but that was only due to the recruit.

Scum MVP - FT

From the fake doc claim to being townread by everyone, he should have prob won the game. The only reason he lost was because of the random NK from ore which I still can't figure out due to the claim. But played a perfect game

Runner Up Scum - Ore

Did everything he needed to do until the end. Passive enough to last that long and played well all around. Also one of the most active scum pms I have ever seen

____________________________

Some notes

Skep had an item that would kill whoever used it, the other was a protect, and the other was erdium which boosted any sirens ability

FT had a flavor that enabled him to revive someone but them die the next dp. This was a way to confirm him and counter balance the game if he got recruited.

The yama and wylted mech was self explanatory

that was the major mechs in the game, anything else feel free to ask

_______________________________________

All in all it was a fun game to watch. Literally every player in the game hit every possible mechanic at some point so it was solved at the end puzzle wise. FT getting night killed after everyone thought he was doc was the most random thing ive ever seen , but all in all fun game
Mikal
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4/21/2015 4:43:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I also forgot

Kills traded to odd night even night

FT was not in a pm with his scum team nor did he know who they were to counter balance some of the scum numbers

When raisor and ford died he got the nk and blue enabled him every night. That is why when it was not his turn to kill they would go through
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/21/2015 4:44:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 4:36:20 PM, bluesteel wrote:
lol ooops

I motivated all the mafia kills

Only on one side, why no love for us? Also, it through us off because on NP1 and NP2 we did not send anyone to do the kills, while NP3 and NP4, we did (though we didn't cause the NP3 kill, but we had the same target). On Np5 again we never said "______ carries out the kill" so I thought our kills where failing because of that.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/21/2015 4:44:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 4:38:18 PM, Mikal wrote:


How would Eridium boost a Siren's ability? My ability can't really be boosted. Would YYW have been given an addition Janitor? Would the double voter be given a triple vote? That seems odd.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Mikal
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4/21/2015 4:46:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 4:44:56 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/21/2015 4:38:18 PM, Mikal wrote:


How would Eridium boost a Siren's ability? My ability can't really be boosted. Would YYW have been given an addition Janitor? Would the double voter be given a triple vote? That seems odd.

Yours - Would boost them to use an ability twice
Seventh - Would turn into a triple vote
YYW - Would steal the role of whoever he janitored
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/21/2015 4:48:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 4:46:08 PM, Mikal wrote:


I maintain that recruits are ridiculously OP. Keeping FT out of the mafia PM and not telling him his teammates doesn't "balance" it. It made the game easier for him. There's NO way to read his behavior as scum then because he's still basically town in terms of his inside knowledge.

You still never answered how the recruit worked. Was it actually voluntary? Did FT say yes or get recruited because he failed to respond...
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
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4/21/2015 4:49:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 4:44:52 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 4/21/2015 4:36:20 PM, bluesteel wrote:
lol ooops

I motivated all the mafia kills

Only on one side, why no love for us? Also, it through us off because on NP1 and NP2 we did not send anyone to do the kills, while NP3 and NP4, we did (though we didn't cause the NP3 kill, but we had the same target). On Np5 again we never said "______ carries out the kill" so I thought our kills where failing because of that.

FT and skep were the only sensible targets for me to choose, given they both seemed flavored. Turns out skep wasn't. So FT was the only logical target for me to choose, given the flavored revive and him soft claiming to still being a doctor.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
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4/21/2015 4:50:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 4:44:52 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:


How'd you decide to kill FT?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Mikal
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4/21/2015 4:50:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 4:48:27 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/21/2015 4:46:08 PM, Mikal wrote:


I maintain that recruits are ridiculously OP. Keeping FT out of the mafia PM and not telling him his teammates doesn't "balance" it. It made the game easier for him. There's NO way to read his behavior as scum then because he's still basically town in terms of his inside knowledge.

You still never answered how the recruit worked. Was it actually voluntary? Did FT say yes or get recruited because he failed to respond...

The recruit was voluntary

Raisor had a 1 x try

if he failed ford got a 1x try

if both recruits are declined that was it

F16 got the offer and declined
FT got it and accepted
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
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4/21/2015 4:55:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 4:48:27 PM, bluesteel wrote:
I maintain that recruits are ridiculously OP. Keeping FT out of the mafia PM and not telling him his teammates doesn't "balance" it. It made the game easier for him. There's NO way to read his behavior as scum then because he's still basically town in terms of his inside knowledge.

I absolutely disagree that it made the game easier. The biggest problem was my team played like sh!t and I could do nothing to help them. They completely botched their night-actions (didn't use the redirect, didn't kill the right people, etc.)

The only reason I decided to bus (and that's what I believed I was doing) is because I wanted the night-kill. That's what gave me control over the game and should have led to my win.

As for behavior, even if I knew who they were, I would have looked town, because I would have scumhunted the other team. That's just a basic problem with multi-faction games. That's why townreads matter so much. The townread on Xlav was a legitimate read.

You still never answered how the recruit worked. Was it actually voluntary? Did FT say yes or get recruited because he failed to respond...

I said yes.
FourTrouble
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4/21/2015 4:56:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 4:50:33 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 4/21/2015 4:48:27 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/21/2015 4:46:08 PM, Mikal wrote:


I maintain that recruits are ridiculously OP. Keeping FT out of the mafia PM and not telling him his teammates doesn't "balance" it. It made the game easier for him. There's NO way to read his behavior as scum then because he's still basically town in terms of his inside knowledge.

You still never answered how the recruit worked. Was it actually voluntary? Did FT say yes or get recruited because he failed to respond...

The recruit was voluntary

Raisor had a 1 x try

if he failed ford got a 1x try

if both recruits are declined that was it

F16 got the offer and declined
FT got it and accepted

Completely imbalanced. You risk confirming two townies and ending up with 2 mafia against another faction, multiple killing roles, etc.
FourTrouble
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4/21/2015 4:57:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 4:50:30 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/21/2015 4:44:52 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:


How'd you decide to kill FT?

This literally betrayed all logic. The only explanations I have for this are based on external information (either because YYW told him my alignment, or because someone else who knew the setup slipped somewhere). There's no way he randomly decides to kill a guy who's claimed self-protection all game.
Mikal
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4/21/2015 4:58:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 4:56:31 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 4/21/2015 4:50:33 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 4/21/2015 4:48:27 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/21/2015 4:46:08 PM, Mikal wrote:


I maintain that recruits are ridiculously OP. Keeping FT out of the mafia PM and not telling him his teammates doesn't "balance" it. It made the game easier for him. There's NO way to read his behavior as scum then because he's still basically town in terms of his inside knowledge.

You still never answered how the recruit worked. Was it actually voluntary? Did FT say yes or get recruited because he failed to respond...

The recruit was voluntary

Raisor had a 1 x try

if he failed ford got a 1x try

if both recruits are declined that was it

F16 got the offer and declined
FT got it and accepted

Completely imbalanced. You risk confirming two townies and ending up with 2 mafia against another faction, multiple killing roles, etc.

Not really

The townie just has to say he got the offer, scum could easily say they got the offer too. Raisor and them were aware of that. Basically if the second refused, they could bandwagon on saying they were offered it

There were ways around it

With the mechs in this , there is no way to perfectly balance it. I had to go on plausibility , which it worked out perfectly outside of them getting the reviver
Raisor
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4/21/2015 4:59:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think there's only ever a faction that wins, the rest are losers

....but ford and I definitely came in last place lol

FT was only nominally on our team, in the sense that he actually did pretty well lol
Mikal
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4/21/2015 5:00:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
But to note I gave hints all in the game

The hints were in bold

Showing that there was a recruit.
Showing what factions were in the game
When they accepted when it was sent etc

That was to counter the recruit itself and make people aware of the recruitments
Ore_Ele
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4/21/2015 5:01:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 4:50:30 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/21/2015 4:44:52 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:


How'd you decide to kill FT?

Lol, I had wanted to kill FT since NP3. I specificay said he would be a prime kill.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
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4/21/2015 5:01:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
BTW I guessed my team as wylted, raisor, or ford right away and was basically right.

So technically I felt informed, and worse, couldn't communicate with them, to tell then not to kill f-16. It was bullshiy and made this game completely unfun.
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
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4/21/2015 5:03:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Ford and raisor should have claimed they were offered recruitment and it failed. Only after that should they have tried recruiting actual townies.
bluesteel
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4/21/2015 5:03:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 4:22:46 PM, Mikal wrote:


Reasons why this game was ridiculous and saved only through chance.

(1) Town had no way to figure out who was recruited. Mafia recruits are way OP. We couldn't figure out based on behavior because FT had no inside knowledge at all. He was not told his teammates or put in the PM. There's no way to sense buddying or anything like that. The two factions also gave him a legitimate incentive to scum hunt. Behavior was useless. Role was useless. This ridiculous unfairness was saved only because Ore somehow geniusly deduced that FT was recruited and was not a doctor who could self protect.

(2) Town had no way to figure out there were two factions, unless we killed someone from both. This would have thrown town off the entire game and screwed up every single read. This was only saved because raisor decided to come clean on DP3 and because I happened to motivate the kill. Otherwise, the single NK every phase would have just looked like one faction.

(3) Town had almost no power roles. Yama's role could easily be taken out by killing Wylted (although the double confirmation of them was nice). There was a cop, Geo's role, and bulletproof. But Geo was one shot, and he got useful results from poor dumb luck. Raisor could have carried out the kill or he could have asked for tracker results on someone else. That just left a cop, with no protective role, who was destined to die soon after claiming and who could have just as easily hit the PGO, had the PGO not SOP claimed. Skep's role was basically useless besides the self protect, which we never got. It'd be really hard for him to figure out to give Eridium to a claimed Siren, and the bomb was negative town utility.

(4) Bull_diesel. Without an investigation, there'd be no way to ever figure out he was third party. We were saved on this only because his role was strong and there was no protective role, so thanks for that. I guess he was doomed to lose from the start as long as he claimed a decent role. Because mafia would kill him pretty quickly.

(5) The fake character claims. There was almost no use analyzing claim order or even whether someone was a major or minor char. Even justifications were impossible to analyze, given how bad 7th's was.

(6) The janitor. If used differently, would have confused town even more. Pretty much everything in this game was designed to sow confusion on the town, throw off behavioral reads, etc. Had YYW not used it on himself, this would have been a serious problem.

Honestly, the way it happened to turn out made it a fun puzzle in DP6 and 7. But this could have easily continued to be a confusing clusterf*ck throughout the entire game if things had happened differently. I don't like the two faction thing, the hidden flavors on roles, or mafia recruits.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Ore_Ele
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4/21/2015 5:04:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 5:01:58 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
BTW I guessed my team as wylted, raisor, or ford right away and was basically right.

So technically I felt informed, and worse, couldn't communicate with them, to tell then not to kill f-16. It was bullshiy and made this game completely unfun.

Though that balanced against our scum team. We had virtually no role. Our 1x janitor hid role info but didn't give it to us, so it wasn't helpful to us.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
YamaVonKarma
Posts: 7,570
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4/21/2015 5:06:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 5:03:46 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Between the two of us, we guessed most of the mafia's claims.

I owe you 20 Yama bucks for reaching the conclusion we were facing Knoxx before me.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
bluesteel
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4/21/2015 5:07:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 5:03:43 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
Ford and raisor should have claimed they were offered recruitment and it failed. Only after that should they have tried recruiting actual townies.

This would have been smart.

Guess this game confirms you don't dislike playing as scum. Although it's different when your role will definitely confirm you.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/21/2015 5:14:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 5:04:13 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 4/21/2015 5:01:58 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
BTW I guessed my team as wylted, raisor, or ford right away and was basically right.

So technically I felt informed, and worse, couldn't communicate with them, to tell then not to kill f-16. It was bullshiy and made this game completely unfun.

Though that balanced against our scum team. We had virtually no role. Our 1x janitor hid role info but didn't give it to us, so it wasn't helpful to us.

lol yeah... You guys had basically no useful roles. Strongman was somewhat useful. Raisor's role was definitely useful. And a recruit was super useful, if someone accepted.

Oh I forgot Rev's confirmable role tho. Had he simply claimed Pacifist using a better char (e.g. Tannis, cuz she never fights in the games) or a better justification, he could have coasted all game. That's like the 8th or 9th thing that made this game potentially impossible to figure out.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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4/21/2015 5:16:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/21/2015 5:14:54 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 4/21/2015 5:04:13 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 4/21/2015 5:01:58 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
BTW I guessed my team as wylted, raisor, or ford right away and was basically right.

So technically I felt informed, and worse, couldn't communicate with them, to tell then not to kill f-16. It was bullshiy and made this game completely unfun.

Though that balanced against our scum team. We had virtually no role. Our 1x janitor hid role info but didn't give it to us, so it wasn't helpful to us.

lol yeah... You guys had basically no useful roles. Strongman was somewhat useful. Raisor's role was definitely useful. And a recruit was super useful, if someone accepted.

Oh I forgot Rev's confirmable role tho. Had he simply claimed Pacifist using a better char (e.g. Tannis, cuz she never fights in the games) or a better justification, he could have coasted all game. That's like the 8th or 9th thing that made this game potentially impossible to figure out.

most of atlas had confirmation rolls
hyperion had active rolls