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Game of Thrones ENDGAME

TUF
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7/16/2015 11:50:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
MAFIA (1st Place)

Skeps- Ramsey Snow - Goon
Flail- Cersei Lannister- 2x Framer
Bullish " Joffrey Baratheon- Godfather
Solon- Rhaegar Targaryen- 1x Janitor

TOWN:

EndarkenedRationalist- Renly- Vanilla
Subutai- Tyrion- Miller
F-16- Brienne- Seraph Knight
YYW- John Snow- Watcher
Airmax- Danaerys targaryen- Governor
FordPrefect- Hot Pie " Vanilla
TN05- Sansa- Vanilla
Dalt- Hodor- Vanilla
Preston- Bran- Vanilla
Raisor- Varys- 3x Cop

Thoughts on the game:

So first off you will notice this game was very interestingly balanced with very little active roles. Mafia had a 1x janitor, town a 1x governor. Mafia had a 2x framer, town a 3x cop. Mafia had an everynight godfather, town an every night watcher. Outside of that, all town had was a seraph knight which had only a 3/10 chance of protecting one of the power roles. The rest of the town roles were vanillas, and a miller, and mafia one extra goon. I personally think the game was well balanced, though I can understand where some of the in-activity stemmed from because of this. It still wasn"t horrible though later on in the game, so I cannot complain too much. I hope more games start influencing heavy vanilla set ups, as I feel for balance purposes; it makes things much more fair than the common theme of usually only implementing 1 "Nilla.
I found this post pretty funny from raisor: http://www.debate.org...

When I originally set this game up, that was how I did it. The five kings were the mafia, and every other character would be town. But for balance reasons, I didn"t want to do just 4 kings, plus some of the roles I planned for mafia would sound too far-fetched for the characters. I decided it would be better just to do a bad guys vs good guys theme (though there is a lot of black and white there, I know).
Speaking of raisor, I have to say I was pretty interested in his play. I was a little concerned about how is Doc fake claim was going to work. In the past if a townie fake claimed something like that, players would lynch you in a heartbeat without much of a second thought after revealing that he was really cop (I know, it happened to me. Thanks drafterman). Thankfully the SOP standards seemed to be slooping on that end, and Raisor was able to pull it off. He pulled it even farther, and got off the whole game without even revealing his third cop result.

I was pretty unsure of his tactic in not revealing his 3rd cop result. But it worked 100% the way he wanted it to. It psyched the mafia out. Flail commented in the mafia PM that he knew Raisor had got a result on him, so that is why he acted quickly on the janitored Brienne claim. It ended up getting him lynched. Even in the final DP solon was thinking raisor"s guilty was on him. Raisor"s tactic worked flawlessly, and I was incredibly surprised. Raisor also had really good luck with his night actions. Mafia had a godfather and a framer, yet not even one of his results ended up getting tampered with.

Preston I don"t think did too badly for his first game, but the TN05 push was cringe-worthy. He didn"t understand his paraphrased claim was the same as every other players, and pushed TN05 to his death over something that wasn"t actually a discrepancy.

I thought the final mafia Night Kill on dalt was a bad choice. Raisor had even told me in his pm that he would lynch dalt if preston was killed. But solon had a tactic planned out for the final DP, so I figured maybe he figured out a clever way to get a lynch on raisor (raisor wasn"t killed because scum were convinced that he was a PGO for some reason lol). But then I figured that solon could probably spin something like "Raisor knew Dalt was skeptical of him in DP6, and suddenly Dalt dies before the LYLO phase?" to make Raisor look guilty. Though he really would only have to convince preston, who is a wild card as no one knows what he will do. Another thing solon could have used on raisor was his third cop target. Raisor said in DP5 I think, that he copped dalt but didn"t trust his result given the framer. In the season finale raisor put three question marks there to hint that he hadn"t revealed his target yet (I think he forgot about revealing dalt earlier). If solon pounced on that he could have probably convinced preston pretty easily that raisor was lying.

F-16 was night killed and janitored during the night phase he asked to replace out. That was convenient (sorry trekie :/). If mafia had janitored YYW or raisor though, they would have fared much better this game.
I do not know why Subutai didn"t claim miller DP1. I knew that was going to go badly for him, even though his miller claim fit his character almost perfectly.
Here is proof that roles were randomized in accordance to the premade spots on the list I had: http://i.imgur.com...

I still adamantly deny accusations that airmax was town confirmed. I wished dearly that he was scum so you would stop using that piss poor logic as a town confirmation. I would reposted that to any of the mafia as I did with airmax. Airmax was just the only one saying it at the time, and I wanted to make sure players were reading the OP. Mafia could have easily been saying that to come off as town (bluesteel and Blackvoid are notorious for using things like this to their advantage as scum).
Me and f-16 were also talking about how we thought it was odd that players were using a dead townies DP1 analysis to defend solon all the way in DP6 lol.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
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7/16/2015 11:55:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
If solon killed preston last night, I am pretty sure Raisor and Dalt would have torn each other apart and this would have been much less painful for solon lol. But he still pulled it through. Also Raisor, I think you played amazingly, and I will probably be trying out some of your tactics in the future. I am surprised you weren't more town read. You raised some pretty good points about why it wouldn't make sense for you to be scum, I feel.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Preston
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7/16/2015 12:02:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 11:59:36 AM, TN05 wrote:
Fvck you Preston

I told you all he was worthless

Very mature of you, Can i just say that you are part of the reason i made my decission, you were adamantly against raisor before your lynch. If you thought it was solon then you should have said so before you died.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." - George Carlin
SolonKR
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7/16/2015 12:04:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
*exhales a long sigh of relief*
That was probably the most stressful game I've ever played on this site.
A lot of the reason I wanted to kill Dalt was simply because he had a terrifyingly high read accuracy up to this point, and I was convinced that Bullish's idea about dragging Preston onto Raisor would work (I had actually wanted to do the opposite, lol. I'm not a very good planner). In hindsight, it wasn't the best choice, but hey, at least it worked.

Town MVP definitely should go to Raisor or Dalt; Raisor for his ingeneous tactics that really threw the scum team off, and Dalt for his terrifyingly high read accuracy.
I'd like to thank Bullish for being graceful in my overly obnoxious bussing of him, and I think scum MVP should go to him, because he's the one who actually coordinated most things--I'm only good at getting townread and execution of strategies.
I also feel bad, because Preston's going to catch a lot of flak for this one, and I don't think he could have played any better than he did, at least in the last few DPs.

Anyway, this is the most fun I've had with a game since I co-modded Code Geass, so thanks, TUF!

PS: YYW, A) I'm sorry that I got a bit sassy to try to discredit you, and B) why did you tunnel me so early in the game?
SO to Bailey, the love of my life <3
TN05
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7/16/2015 12:04:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 12:02:56 PM, Preston wrote:
At 7/16/2015 11:59:36 AM, TN05 wrote:
Fvck you Preston

I told you all he was worthless

Very mature of you, Can i just say that you are part of the reason i made my decission, you were adamantly against raisor before your lynch. If you thought it was solon then you should have said so before you died.

Or you shouldn't have killed me over something that was flat-out incorrect, and maybe we would have been able to work something out.
Preston
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7/16/2015 12:07:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 12:04:46 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 7/16/2015 12:02:56 PM, Preston wrote:
At 7/16/2015 11:59:36 AM, TN05 wrote:
Fvck you Preston

I told you all he was worthless

Very mature of you, Can i just say that you are part of the reason i made my decission, you were adamantly against raisor before your lynch. If you thought it was solon then you should have said so before you died.

Or you shouldn't have killed me over something that was flat-out incorrect, and maybe we would have been able to work something out.

Well i didnt hammer you, i just pointed out that your wording was off, besides you were the best kill, I didnt suspect Solon, neither did Dalt. On top of it all it was pretty obvious that i was town, i soft claimed super early on. Raisor seemed scummy but less than you. If you had soft claimed super early you would have been more town in my mind.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." - George Carlin
TUF
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7/16/2015 12:08:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
TN05, Please don't go too hard on preston. For his first game I think he did rather well.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Preston
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7/16/2015 12:08:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 12:04:46 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 7/16/2015 12:02:56 PM, Preston wrote:
At 7/16/2015 11:59:36 AM, TN05 wrote:
Fvck you Preston

I told you all he was worthless

Very mature of you, Can i just say that you are part of the reason i made my decission, you were adamantly against raisor before your lynch. If you thought it was solon then you should have said so before you died.

Or you shouldn't have killed me over something that was flat-out incorrect, and maybe we would have been able to work something out.

Also maybe, if you made it to lylo instead of me you would have gone raisor, you said he was your priority lynch.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." - George Carlin
TN05
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7/16/2015 12:16:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 12:08:37 PM, TUF wrote:
TN05, Please don't go too hard on preston. For his first game I think he did rather well.

I'm just a bit annoyed at what happened. Sorry if I'm overreacting.
TN05
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7/16/2015 12:18:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 12:07:21 PM, Preston wrote:
At 7/16/2015 12:04:46 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 7/16/2015 12:02:56 PM, Preston wrote:
At 7/16/2015 11:59:36 AM, TN05 wrote:
Fvck you Preston

I told you all he was worthless

Very mature of you, Can i just say that you are part of the reason i made my decission, you were adamantly against raisor before your lynch. If you thought it was solon then you should have said so before you died.

Or you shouldn't have killed me over something that was flat-out incorrect, and maybe we would have been able to work something out.

Well i didnt hammer you, i just pointed out that your wording was off, besides you were the best kill, I didnt suspect Solon, neither did Dalt. On top of it all it was pretty obvious that i was town, i soft claimed super early on. Raisor seemed scummy but less than you. If you had soft claimed super early you would have been more town in my mind.

I claimed even earlier than you soft claimed if I recall right. I was literally the least scummy player alive.
Preston
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7/16/2015 12:18:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 12:16:50 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 7/16/2015 12:08:37 PM, TUF wrote:
TN05, Please don't go too hard on preston. For his first game I think he did rather well.

I'm just a bit annoyed at what happened. Sorry if I'm overreacting.

your just in being annoyed, i just saw the lies and deception on raisors part as an indicator of scum, it was then backed by all of your guys views on solon, thus through PoE i felt it must be raisor. then when i looked at all of your opinions of raisor you all felt he was suspicious.

I do apologize for losing it for us :(
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." - George Carlin
Preston
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7/16/2015 12:19:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 12:18:31 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 7/16/2015 12:07:21 PM, Preston wrote:
At 7/16/2015 12:04:46 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 7/16/2015 12:02:56 PM, Preston wrote:
At 7/16/2015 11:59:36 AM, TN05 wrote:
Fvck you Preston

I told you all he was worthless

Very mature of you, Can i just say that you are part of the reason i made my decission, you were adamantly against raisor before your lynch. If you thought it was solon then you should have said so before you died.

Or you shouldn't have killed me over something that was flat-out incorrect, and maybe we would have been able to work something out.

Well i didnt hammer you, i just pointed out that your wording was off, besides you were the best kill, I didnt suspect Solon, neither did Dalt. On top of it all it was pretty obvious that i was town, i soft claimed super early on. Raisor seemed scummy but less than you. If you had soft claimed super early you would have been more town in my mind.

I claimed even earlier than you soft claimed if I recall right. I was literally the least scummy player alive.

u claimed vanilla D1 before my comment about needing a hover round? i must have missed it.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." - George Carlin
trekie
Posts: 772
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7/16/2015 12:28:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Dammit. I was invested in this even though I didn't get to actually play. *curses the mafia for their NP2 kill*

I'm sad Town lost by mislynching Raisor. To an outside observer he was clearly town MVP.

To TUF, despite the early inactivity, I thought setup-wise this was an excellent game.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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7/16/2015 1:06:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Solon and Raisor played amazingly. Solon had me convinced early game that he was town and I don't recall the last time mafia were in my strong town reads so really well done. I didn't engage with this game as much as I should have perhaps. Well-balanced game from TUF.

Preston, it was a good try for your first game. A bit of advice. Don't be afraid of being lynched in LYLO. It is the same result whether you get lynched or the other townie gets lynched. Don't vote in haste. If you thought Solon was going to vote you, let him. Unless, you are very, very sure about your reads, let the other person make a move first. The only way I could see town winning was if Solon voted you at which point Raisor would be confirmed town and would have ultimately made the right decision.

@ TUF, can we see a screenshot of the scum PM?
Raisor
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7/16/2015 1:23:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 1:06:36 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Solon and Raisor played amazingly. Solon had me convinced early game that he was town and I don't recall the last time mafia were in my strong town reads so really well done. I didn't engage with this game as much as I should have perhaps. Well-balanced game from TUF.

Preston, it was a good try for your first game. A bit of advice. Don't be afraid of being lynched in LYLO. It is the same result whether you get lynched or the other townie gets lynched. Don't vote in haste. If you thought Solon was going to vote you, let him. Unless, you are very, very sure about your reads, let the other person make a move first. The only way I could see town winning was if Solon voted you at which point Raisor would be confirmed town and would have ultimately made the right decision.

@ TUF, can we see a screenshot of the scum PM?

That was my big problem at the end of the game.

I had convinced myself to vote solon but I couldn't figure out how to get Preston to. My strategy was to try and convince solon to vote Preston as a means of winning me over. That was the only way I could figure to get Preston on my side.

I tried everything to talk Preston down. The two things that I think I can fairly complain about are

A) he wouldn't walk through my thought exercises, he never explained my actions from a town perspective. That's just lazy and sloppy on his part.

B) he voted rashly which is the one thing I told him not to do no matter what.

It's just really frustrating. Losing like that. I'm sick of freaking losing every game I thinky win ratio is like 20% lol
Flail
Posts: 209
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7/16/2015 1:55:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
heh nice

I still can't believe I was lynched on my claim. It was a better claim, with breadcrumbs and live reads against a player that had just been caught in a fake claim, with no breadcrumbs and dead reads. I even had him trumped by calling out that he was going to claim I was his view. :shrug:

Thanks for running the game, and thanks to everyone for playing. Good fun.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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7/16/2015 1:57:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 1:23:32 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 7/16/2015 1:06:36 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Solon and Raisor played amazingly. Solon had me convinced early game that he was town and I don't recall the last time mafia were in my strong town reads so really well done. I didn't engage with this game as much as I should have perhaps. Well-balanced game from TUF.

Preston, it was a good try for your first game. A bit of advice. Don't be afraid of being lynched in LYLO. It is the same result whether you get lynched or the other townie gets lynched. Don't vote in haste. If you thought Solon was going to vote you, let him. Unless, you are very, very sure about your reads, let the other person make a move first. The only way I could see town winning was if Solon voted you at which point Raisor would be confirmed town and would have ultimately made the right decision.

@ TUF, can we see a screenshot of the scum PM?

That was my big problem at the end of the game.

I had convinced myself to vote solon but I couldn't figure out how to get Preston to. My strategy was to try and convince solon to vote Preston as a means of winning me over. That was the only way I could figure to get Preston on my side.

I tried everything to talk Preston down. The two things that I think I can fairly complain about are

A) he wouldn't walk through my thought exercises, he never explained my actions from a town perspective. That's just lazy and sloppy on his part.

B) he voted rashly which is the one thing I told him not to do no matter what.

It's just really frustrating. Losing like that. I'm sick of freaking losing every game I thinky win ratio is like 20% lol

You did good leading three scum lynches. During LYLO, I suspected that some of your analysis may have been fake and that you were simply pretending to be suspicious of Preston so that Solon would vote him.

But you revealed your hand early in the day. I think Solon suspected that as well which is why he held on to the vote. Smart move. He kept his cool and outlasted Preston while the latter panicked.

Solon backing off on his townread of you hard when asked to cast a vote was telling.
Raisor
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7/16/2015 2:03:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 1:55:10 PM, Flail wrote:
heh nice

I still can't believe I was lynched on my claim. It was a better claim, with breadcrumbs and live reads against a player that had just been caught in a fake claim, with no breadcrumbs and dead reads. I even had him trumped by calling out that he was going to claim I was his view. :shrug:

Thanks for running the game, and thanks to everyone for playing. Good fun.

lol you claim was not that great. I had actual breadcrumbs and you claimed f16s obvious character.

Worth trying but town would have been dumb to not lynch you
Flail
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7/16/2015 2:08:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I had actual breadcrumbs, I left then from the start of day 2 preparing to make a fake claim.

You did not have breadcrumbs, you had a defense of a player .. not a breadcrumb as all players defend other players at some point or another.

I guess your meta as town is to be a liar, because a caught liar is not to be believed, they are to be lynched.
TUF
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7/16/2015 2:29:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 1:06:36 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
@ TUF, can we see a screenshot of the scum PM?

Sure, I had to blur out some spots at the certain players requests. But the blurred parts don't effect things much.

http://postimg.org...
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Raisor
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7/16/2015 2:29:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 2:08:22 PM, Flail wrote:
I had actual breadcrumbs, I left then from the start of day 2 preparing to make a fake claim.

You did not have breadcrumbs, you had a defense of a player .. not a breadcrumb as all players defend other players at some point or another.

I guess your meta as town is to be a liar, because a caught liar is not to be believed, they are to be lynched.

My meta actually isn't to lie. It's against my meta lol

Your claim just wasn't very good, largely because of f16s obvious brienne soft claim.

The cop cc was fine but you should have claimed a different character.

Also why did you cc knowing it would be a one for one trade?
Daltonian
Posts: 4,797
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7/16/2015 3:28:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Dammit. I had the scumteam pegged too, DP1, just YYW and Raisor threw me.

I just always succumb to paranoia about the leading town player in the game, no matter what. I need to work on that :/ I would say it is my key weakness as a town player.

If I had been alive, I am confident I would have lynched Solon - I decided that during the NP. Even if it was principally for the sole reason that I would be too embarassed afterwards if Raisor flipped town - i.e, if Raisor was scum, he would have deserved the win. So, it was a good NK. I didn't mean any of the stuff I said about Solon towards the end of the last DP; ergo I was faking it. :P

GG
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
Daltonian
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7/16/2015 3:33:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Solon played very well, though. He was able to make nice enough use of his meta to manipulate. He's definitely the mafia MVP, he carried the scumteam for sure. Raisor is town MVP, too.

I know what I need to improve on in my town play and that is developing one understanding of the game and sticking with it; because my paranoia is more destructive than the possibility that there is some sort of underlying conspiracy or gambit happening.

I take some responsibility for the loss because I think if I had placed more emphasis on Solon as a lynch target, Preston would have felt more pressured to vote for him. Whatever, it was a GG. I think, on balance, I am satisfied with my play because I came out knowing that I could have done well but need to focus on fixing a few things to really improve.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
Flail
Posts: 209
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7/16/2015 3:43:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 2:29:36 PM, Raisor wrote:
Also why did you cc knowing it would be a one for one trade?

Because you had a guilty on me, you had already lied about your claim, and I had already set-up the fake claim from the beginning of the game. Trading one for one is the proper play here, otherwise its a zero for one and the town player is cleared for the rest of the game.

If it wasn't just the one player making the choice, you would have probably been the lynch. That strange role to end the day deciding the lynch by themselves was the banana peel.

Apparently your lie caught up with you in the end though. :p
Flail
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7/16/2015 3:44:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 3:33:46 PM, Daltonian wrote:
Solon played very well, though. He was able to make nice enough use of his meta to manipulate. He's definitely the mafia MVP, he carried the scumteam for sure.

+1
Daltonian
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7/16/2015 3:47:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/16/2015 3:44:52 PM, Flail wrote:
At 7/16/2015 3:33:46 PM, Daltonian wrote:
Solon played very well, though. He was able to make nice enough use of his meta to manipulate. He's definitely the mafia MVP, he carried the scumteam for sure.

+1
You guys all did well enough (you, for your first time on the site!); but PoE started to kill you off. Solon had the benefit of being for the most part excluded from that PoE, for whatever reasoning.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
Flail
Posts: 209
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7/16/2015 3:51:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Thanks for saying so, it was a fun game with a fun group. Glad I played. :)

Though I really should be catching up on the other game instead of reminiscing here.
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,143
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7/16/2015 5:35:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
So it looks like my reads are getting better, but the time I can afford to dedicate to convincing people to follow me is decreasing. Lol