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Stag-55
Posts: 64
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8/5/2015 11:22:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I've been playing a lot of mafia on several different sites for the past year. This is by far the easiest site to host a game on (for a million reasons).

What's the deal with the sign ups? Can I start a sign up immediately, or is there a wait at the moment?
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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8/5/2015 11:40:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 11:22:48 PM, Stag-55 wrote:
I've been playing a lot of mafia on several different sites for the past year. This is by far the easiest site to host a game on (for a million reasons).

What's the deal with the sign ups? Can I start a sign up immediately, or is there a wait at the moment?

We have a waiting list [http://www.debate.org...]. If you add your name to the bottom of the hopper, you can post your sign-ups once you reach the top 3 of the hopper.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Stag-55
Posts: 64
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8/5/2015 11:41:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 11:40:04 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/5/2015 11:22:48 PM, Stag-55 wrote:
I've been playing a lot of mafia on several different sites for the past year. This is by far the easiest site to host a game on (for a million reasons).

What's the deal with the sign ups? Can I start a sign up immediately, or is there a wait at the moment?

We have a waiting list [http://www.debate.org...]. If you add your name to the bottom of the hopper, you can post your sign-ups once you reach the top 3 of the hopper.
The hopper doesn't appear to move at all
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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8/5/2015 11:44:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 11:41:40 PM, Stag-55 wrote:
At 8/5/2015 11:40:04 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/5/2015 11:22:48 PM, Stag-55 wrote:
I've been playing a lot of mafia on several different sites for the past year. This is by far the easiest site to host a game on (for a million reasons).

What's the deal with the sign ups? Can I start a sign up immediately, or is there a wait at the moment?

We have a waiting list [http://www.debate.org...]. If you add your name to the bottom of the hopper, you can post your sign-ups once you reach the top 3 of the hopper.
The hopper doesn't appear to move at all

It does move. It has always been slow, since there is a general rule of thumb that no more than 2 games should be active at any one moment. If you sign up, you should be able to host in a few months. It's a long process, but everyone has to go through it--from the most senior mods to the newest ones.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

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Stag-55
Posts: 64
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8/5/2015 11:46:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 11:44:17 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/5/2015 11:41:40 PM, Stag-55 wrote:
At 8/5/2015 11:40:04 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/5/2015 11:22:48 PM, Stag-55 wrote:
I've been playing a lot of mafia on several different sites for the past year. This is by far the easiest site to host a game on (for a million reasons).

What's the deal with the sign ups? Can I start a sign up immediately, or is there a wait at the moment?

We have a waiting list [http://www.debate.org...]. If you add your name to the bottom of the hopper, you can post your sign-ups once you reach the top 3 of the hopper.
The hopper doesn't appear to move at all

It does move. It has always been slow, since there is a general rule of thumb that no more than 2 games should be active at any one moment. If you sign up, you should be able to host in a few months. It's a long process, but everyone has to go through it--from the most senior mods to the newest ones.

Just an idea, but if there were no sign ups, ppl could just join the games they want and avoid the ones they don't, just like a proper capitalist society
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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8/5/2015 11:49:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 11:46:17 PM, Stag-55 wrote:
At 8/5/2015 11:44:17 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/5/2015 11:41:40 PM, Stag-55 wrote:
At 8/5/2015 11:40:04 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/5/2015 11:22:48 PM, Stag-55 wrote:
I've been playing a lot of mafia on several different sites for the past year. This is by far the easiest site to host a game on (for a million reasons).

What's the deal with the sign ups? Can I start a sign up immediately, or is there a wait at the moment?

We have a waiting list [http://www.debate.org...]. If you add your name to the bottom of the hopper, you can post your sign-ups once you reach the top 3 of the hopper.
The hopper doesn't appear to move at all

It does move. It has always been slow, since there is a general rule of thumb that no more than 2 games should be active at any one moment. If you sign up, you should be able to host in a few months. It's a long process, but everyone has to go through it--from the most senior mods to the newest ones.

Just an idea, but if there were no sign ups, ppl could just join the games they want and avoid the ones they don't, just like a proper capitalist society

Unfortunately, that could create quite a bit of chaos. Too many games going on at once clutters the thread, and leads to people joining more games then they can handle, thus reducing the quality of all games. It also means that people would be less likely to sign up for games by newer mods, preferring to wait for a more experienced host. The sign-ups only allow one or two games to be active at once, forcing people to sign-up for the games that are available, which gives newer mods a chance. It also reduces the amount of clutter and helps people not overextend themselves. The system evolved for a reason, and I think it's a good thing.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Stag-55
Posts: 64
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8/5/2015 11:59:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 11:49:31 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Unfortunately, that could create quite a bit of chaos. Too many games going on at once clutters the thread, and leads to people joining more games then they can handle, thus reducing the quality of all games. It also means that people would be less likely to sign up for games by newer mods, preferring to wait for a more experienced host. The sign-ups only allow one or two games to be active at once, forcing people to sign-up for the games that are available, which gives newer mods a chance. It also reduces the amount of clutter and helps people not overextend themselves. The system evolved for a reason, and I think it's a good thing.
I agree with the system, but I think it is broken slightly.

If its true that it takes a few months to reach the sign up phase, that is extremely excessive. The sites I've played on, the maximum it would take before you could start up a game is 2 to 3 weeks.
bsh1
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8/6/2015 12:01:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/5/2015 11:59:50 PM, Stag-55 wrote:
At 8/5/2015 11:49:31 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Unfortunately, that could create quite a bit of chaos. Too many games going on at once clutters the thread, and leads to people joining more games then they can handle, thus reducing the quality of all games. It also means that people would be less likely to sign up for games by newer mods, preferring to wait for a more experienced host. The sign-ups only allow one or two games to be active at once, forcing people to sign-up for the games that are available, which gives newer mods a chance. It also reduces the amount of clutter and helps people not overextend themselves. The system evolved for a reason, and I think it's a good thing.
I agree with the system, but I think it is broken slightly.

Is that not true of every system? I just don't think that there is any clear fix that can applied here that wouldn't be more harmful than beneficial.

If its true that it takes a few months to reach the sign up phase, that is extremely excessive. The sites I've played on, the maximum it would take before you could start up a game is 2 to 3 weeks.

What are the other sites?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
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Stag-55
Posts: 64
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8/6/2015 12:03:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 12:01:02 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/5/2015 11:59:50 PM, Stag-55 wrote:
At 8/5/2015 11:49:31 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Unfortunately, that could create quite a bit of chaos. Too many games going on at once clutters the thread, and leads to people joining more games then they can handle, thus reducing the quality of all games. It also means that people would be less likely to sign up for games by newer mods, preferring to wait for a more experienced host. The sign-ups only allow one or two games to be active at once, forcing people to sign-up for the games that are available, which gives newer mods a chance. It also reduces the amount of clutter and helps people not overextend themselves. The system evolved for a reason, and I think it's a good thing.
I agree with the system, but I think it is broken slightly.

Is that not true of every system? I just don't think that there is any clear fix that can applied here that wouldn't be more harmful than beneficial.

If its true that it takes a few months to reach the sign up phase, that is extremely excessive. The sites I've played on, the maximum it would take before you could start up a game is 2 to 3 weeks.

What are the other sites?
MS, MM, two forum sites which I don't want to devolve into (don't ask!)
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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8/6/2015 12:04:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 12:03:36 AM, Stag-55 wrote:
At 8/6/2015 12:01:02 AM, bsh1 wrote:
What are the other sites?
MS, MM, two forum sites which I don't want to devolve into (don't ask!)

MS, MM?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Stag-55
Posts: 64
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8/6/2015 12:04:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Is that not true of every system? I just don't think that there is any clear fix that can applied here that wouldn't be more harmful than beneficial.

If it's broken, then fix it. At least improve upon it.

Expanding the amount of sign up slots could help, and I would separate the sign up aspect from the in progress aspect.
Stag-55
Posts: 64
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8/6/2015 12:05:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 12:04:05 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/6/2015 12:03:36 AM, Stag-55 wrote:
At 8/6/2015 12:01:02 AM, bsh1 wrote:
What are the other sites?
MS, MM, two forum sites which I don't want to devolve into (don't ask!)

MS, MM?
If you don't know what the abbreviations stand for, I doubt knowing the full names will tell you much about anything.
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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8/6/2015 12:06:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 12:04:48 AM, Stag-55 wrote:
Is that not true of every system? I just don't think that there is any clear fix that can applied here that wouldn't be more harmful than beneficial.

If it's broken, then fix it. At least improve upon it.

It's not really that simple. You first need to have a viable improvement that can be made.

Expanding the amount of sign up slots could help, and I would separate the sign up aspect from the in progress aspect.

What do you mean by "sign-up slots?" If you mean allowing more games to be active at once, we've already found that to be too hectic, and that it kind of defeats the purpose of limiting the number of on-going games. And what possible benefit does separating the two have?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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8/6/2015 12:07:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 12:05:30 AM, Stag-55 wrote:
At 8/6/2015 12:04:05 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/6/2015 12:03:36 AM, Stag-55 wrote:
At 8/6/2015 12:01:02 AM, bsh1 wrote:
What are the other sites?
MS, MM, two forum sites which I don't want to devolve into (don't ask!)

MS, MM?
If you don't know what the abbreviations stand for, I doubt knowing the full names will tell you much about anything.

Humor me, please.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Stag-55
Posts: 64
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8/6/2015 12:11:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
What do you mean by "sign-up slots?" If you mean allowing more games to be active at once, we've already found that to be too hectic, and that it kind of defeats the purpose of limiting the number of on-going games. And what possible benefit does separating the two have?
Who found it more hectic? Was there a community consensus, recently?

And what possible benefit does separating the two have?
The most legitimate problem you stated, was that too many people were signing up for too many games. By limiting the number of games taking sign ups, while allowing as many games that have finished sign ups to take begin, you are taking care of two problems.

The first problem you are solving is having too many players signing up for too many games. The second problem you are solving is the slowness period it takes to begin a game. As a bonus, you are also advancing the number of choices players have to choose from at any given time.
Discipulus_Didicit
Posts: 3,089
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8/6/2015 12:14:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 12:07:16 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/6/2015 12:05:30 AM, Stag-55 wrote:
At 8/6/2015 12:04:05 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/6/2015 12:03:36 AM, Stag-55 wrote:
At 8/6/2015 12:01:02 AM, bsh1 wrote:
What are the other sites?
MS, MM, two forum sites which I don't want to devolve into (don't ask!)

MS, MM?
If you don't know what the abbreviations stand for, I doubt knowing the full names will tell you much about anything.

Humor me, please.

By MS he means Mafia Scum, where I recently made an account. After about a week there and having just been able to start my first game yesterday, I am inclined to believe that DDO mafia is superior. Whether this superiority is linked to their sign up methods could be up for debate, but it is certainly superior.
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
Stag-55
Posts: 64
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8/6/2015 12:15:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 12:14:05 AM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
At 8/6/2015 12:07:16 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/6/2015 12:05:30 AM, Stag-55 wrote:
At 8/6/2015 12:04:05 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/6/2015 12:03:36 AM, Stag-55 wrote:
At 8/6/2015 12:01:02 AM, bsh1 wrote:
What are the other sites?
MS, MM, two forum sites which I don't want to devolve into (don't ask!)

MS, MM?
If you don't know what the abbreviations stand for, I doubt knowing the full names will tell you much about anything.

Humor me, please.

By MS he means Mafia Scum, where I recently made an account. After about a week there and having just been able to start my first game yesterday, I am inclined to believe that DDO mafia is superior. Whether this superiority is linked to their sign up methods could be up for debate, but it is certainly superior.
I actually find that VERY false. The level of skill on MS is a lot better and the set-ups/themes are a lot more creative.

There are a couple qwerks I have with the site, and the moderating process is really complicated, but comparing games from here and there, DDO pales in comparison .
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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8/6/2015 12:16:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 12:11:57 AM, Stag-55 wrote:
Humor me, please.
Mafiascum and Mafia Maniac

Thanks. So, there is a lot of difference between mafia-only sites and DDO. The whole site is devoted to the activity. This means that there are more people playing mafia, that these people are more exclusively devoting their time to mafia, and that there are a lot of resources available for players. On DDO, there are only 25 or so regular mafia users, and then there are a few who may occasionally play. Almost all players split their time between mafia and other activities on DDO, and the resources for newer players and mods are not as significant, meaning those users are often unwilling to do a lot of playing/modding, or very easily overextend themselves. So, while it may be reasonable for the turnover to be a few weeks on those sites, it is not reasonable to expect the same of DDO mafia.

Btw, could you use the "reply and quote" feature so I get notifications when you reply please?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Stag-55
Posts: 64
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8/6/2015 12:16:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
After about a week there and having just been able to start my first game yesterday
You started your first game in what category?
Discipulus_Didicit
Posts: 3,089
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8/6/2015 12:18:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 12:15:43 AM, Stag-55 wrote:
At 8/6/2015 12:14:05 AM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
At 8/6/2015 12:07:16 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/6/2015 12:05:30 AM, Stag-55 wrote:
At 8/6/2015 12:04:05 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/6/2015 12:03:36 AM, Stag-55 wrote:
At 8/6/2015 12:01:02 AM, bsh1 wrote:
What are the other sites?
MS, MM, two forum sites which I don't want to devolve into (don't ask!)

MS, MM?
If you don't know what the abbreviations stand for, I doubt knowing the full names will tell you much about anything.

Humor me, please.

By MS he means Mafia Scum, where I recently made an account. After about a week there and having just been able to start my first game yesterday, I am inclined to believe that DDO mafia is superior. Whether this superiority is linked to their sign up methods could be up for debate, but it is certainly superior.
I actually find that VERY false. The level of skill on MS is a lot better and the set-ups/themes are a lot more creative.

There are a couple qwerks I have with the site, and the moderating process is really complicated, but comparing games from here and there, DDO pales in comparison .

Maybe it's just the noob games then? I like the fourm programing but the actual gameplay is agonizingly slow and the noobs there are absolute morons compared to the noobs here.
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
Stag-55
Posts: 64
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8/6/2015 12:19:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
This means that there are more people playing mafia, that these people are more exclusively devoting their time to mafia
Actually you see a lot of the same users in most games. The active community is very active. It is common to see ppl who limit themselves to 1-2 games, while at the same time you see ppl signed up for 5-9 games at a time. I think it works pretty well for them.

Actually, you should learn from them, because they do have a larger mafia community, despite having a much smaller community overall than DDO.
Stag-55
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8/6/2015 12:21:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I like the fourm programing but the actual gameplay is agonizingly slow and the noobs there are absolute morons compared to the noobs here.
No doubt there are a lot of morons in the newbie games, but they are newbs after all. There are also a lot of noobies during high times on the site, so you could get lucky and get some good newbs, but the newb games are off limits for the most part to the site veterans (unless they play as IC's)
bsh1
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8/6/2015 12:21:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 12:11:27 AM, Stag-55 wrote:
What do you mean by "sign-up slots?" If you mean allowing more games to be active at once, we've already found that to be too hectic, and that it kind of defeats the purpose of limiting the number of on-going games. And what possible benefit does separating the two have?
Who found it more hectic? Was there a community consensus, recently?

The last time there were 3 active, decent-sized games, people overextended, the subforum got cluttered, etc. and I saw a drop in the quality of play and focus, since players had to divide their attention between multiple games. It just makes sense that if you have a small pool of players, the more games they play, the less attention they can devote to any single game.

And what possible benefit does separating the two have?
The most legitimate problem you stated, was that too many people were signing up for too many games. By limiting the number of games taking sign ups, while allowing as many games that have finished sign ups to take begin, you are taking care of two problems.

I don't think you understand how the hopper works. It's designed to limit the number of active games (those being played.) It does this by restricting the number of games waiting in the wings, but it also does this by preventing games who have filled up from entering the playing stage until one of the active games finishes or nearly finishes.

I don't see how what you're proposing is any better, since it could have too many active games at once.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Stag-55
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8/6/2015 12:24:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The last time there were 3 active, decent-sized games, people overextended, the subforum got cluttered, etc. and I saw a drop in the quality of play and focus, since players had to divide their attention between multiple games
I don't see much problem with the subforum becoming cluttered. It might not look neat, but as long as it isn't impossible to navigate, I think the pros outweigh the cons.

That could of also been an anomaly. I know of a lot of mafia forum sites, and this is the only one I know which only allows 2 active games. I find the communities have much better players too. Imitating their models could have some success.
bsh1
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8/6/2015 12:25:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 12:19:21 AM, Stag-55 wrote:
This means that there are more people playing mafia, that these people are more exclusively devoting their time to mafia

Actually, you should learn from them, because they do have a larger mafia community, despite having a much smaller community overall than DDO.

They have more than 25 regular users, I am fairly certain of that. And, their entire userbase is dedicated to mafia. If I logged on to DDO and *only* did mafia, I could probably manage 3-4 games at once. Unfortunately, I can only think of 2 or 3 users who *only* do mafia on the site, because DDO is broader in scope than, for instance, mafiascum. Because of this, people have less time to devote to mafia, because they're engaged elsewhere on DDO. That's one reason why the comparison between the two sites isn't really a fair or accurate one to draw.

Again: PLEASE use the "reply and quote" feature.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Stag-55
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8/6/2015 12:27:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Because of this, people have less time to devote to mafia, because they're engaged elsewhere on DDO. That's one reason why the comparison between the two sites isn't really a fair or accurate one to draw.
Fair enough, but a lot of this is besides the point anyways.

Don't you think people should be able to choose for themselves how many games they are able to devote themselves too?
bsh1
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8/6/2015 12:28:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 12:24:10 AM, Stag-55 wrote:
The last time there were 3 active, decent-sized games, people overextended, the subforum got cluttered, etc. and I saw a drop in the quality of play and focus, since players had to divide their attention between multiple games
I don't see much problem with the subforum becoming cluttered. It might not look neat, but as long as it isn't impossible to navigate, I think the pros outweigh the cons.

The problem is not just one of aesthetics, but of keeping games organized both mentally and practically. The more games you have, the more likely people are to post content relevant to game A in game B, and to generally mix games up and have a hard time locating old posts and info.

Imitating their models could have some success.

The point is that DDO is demonstrably different from the other, mafia-exclusive sites your talking about. Cross-applying the models is not going to have the desired effect here because of the very relevant differences DDO has with those sites.
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8/6/2015 12:30:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 12:27:53 AM, Stag-55 wrote:
Because of this, people have less time to devote to mafia, because they're engaged elsewhere on DDO. That's one reason why the comparison between the two sites isn't really a fair or accurate one to draw.
Fair enough, but a lot of this is besides the point anyways.

Don't you think people should be able to choose for themselves how many games they are able to devote themselves too?

I am never one to buy into that kind of libertarian thinking. Besides, if enough people overextend, they reduce the quality of the game for everyone, not just themselves. The damages of their choices are not self-contained.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...