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Illusionists: Mafia - DP2

Bullish
Posts: 3,527
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9/19/2015 11:04:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Illusionists: Mafia - DP2

Died last DP:

OberHerr - Ingenieur - Fancy word from James Cameron"s The Prestige, you are the "engineer," the crafter of all the clever props your magician requires. You can create anything from false walls to toe-operated sleeve-concealed grappling hooks.

- You are the Inventor; each night, you may give one of the following items, which perform acts unknown to you or the player until used; some of these are used in place of a player"s primary role, some of them apply passively, and some of them don"t do anything.
1. Vanishing box
2. Water tank
3. Gun with blank round
4. Ear piece
5. Stacked deck of cards
6. Pinstripe suit
7. Mirror
Upon receiving the item, the player will be prompted with: "You have received a(n) ____. When you would like to use the item (in place of your usual action), please state so in the PM, followed by the name of the person you would like to use it on; the item may not perform an active action, the provided name will only be used if it applies."

You win with the town.

Died in the NP:

SeventhProfessor (rep Romanii) - ???

- ???

???

Living players:
1. SolonKR
2. The-Voice-of-Truth
3. Lannan13
4. TheDebater_101
5. Discipulus_Didicit
6. XLAV
7. ford_prefect
8. Sapphique
9. Midnight1131
10. Tejretics
11. Wylted
12. FourTrouble

Dead:
OberHerr - Ingenieur - Inventor.
SeventhProfessor (rep Romanii) - ??? - ???

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

This DP lasts 72 hours. DP2 ends 09/22 19:00 EDT.
0x5f3759df
lannan13
Posts: 23,017
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9/19/2015 11:38:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It appears we have a Janitor.
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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lannan13
Posts: 23,017
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9/19/2015 11:40:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm going to do some homework, so I'll return later on.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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lannan13
Posts: 23,017
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9/19/2015 11:40:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Oh, before I go

VTL Saph

For a long list of reasons of which I plan on explaining later.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
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9/19/2015 11:41:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
So, it looks like I was right about Romanii being town, wrong about Ober.

As I said last DP, Ober and Romanii's flips don't change much - a large part of my analysis was based on process of elimination. Tejretics/Saph are my two strongest scumreads.

Vote: Tejretics
lannan13
Posts: 23,017
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9/20/2015 12:15:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 11:41:14 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
So, it looks like I was right about Romanii being town, wrong about Ober.

As I said last DP, Ober and Romanii's flips don't change much - a large part of my analysis was based on process of elimination. Tejretics/Saph are my two strongest scumreads.

Vote: Tejretics

Why Tej over Saph?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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lannan13
Posts: 23,017
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9/20/2015 12:49:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/20/2015 12:35:20 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 9/20/2015 12:15:15 AM, lannan13 wrote:
Why Tej over Saph?

Reasons.

But I'm down to get Saph's claim too, so...

Vote: Saph

Did you regain your Miller role or what's happening there?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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Discipulus_Didicit
Posts: 3,086
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9/20/2015 2:12:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 11:04:38 PM, Bullish wrote:
Died in the NP:

SeventhProfessor (rep Romanii) - ???

Noob question here, what does this mean? I mean the "rep Romanii" part. What does rep mean in this context?
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
Discipulus_Didicit
Posts: 3,086
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9/20/2015 2:14:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/19/2015 11:05:41 PM, Bullish wrote:
SeventhProfessor replaced Romanii during the night.

Nevermind my last post, I saw this here before but for some reason it didn't click that this was related to the "rep" in the OP until just after I posted post 10.
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
SolonKR
Posts: 4,037
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9/20/2015 2:34:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I don't see the scum read on Tej. He was one of the only ones to defend Ober; what was the scum motivation for that?

Pressuring Saph is good, though.
VTL Saph.
SO to Bailey, the love of my life <3
Sapphique
Posts: 4,110
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9/20/2015 2:55:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
*Frowns* There's a problem if some of my top townreads are voting for me. I'm going to read DP1 again, long as it is. What I would like to know is why scum picked Romanii, assuming that some illusion thingy didn't mess with it. There were others that were more obviously townread.

DD, why *aren't* you voting for me?
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
Sapphique
Posts: 4,110
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9/20/2015 3:04:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Also @DD, maybe this is blindingly obvious to everyone else, but could you explain again why confirming VOT won't work if they're on the same wagon? I still don't get it.
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
Discipulus_Didicit
Posts: 3,086
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9/20/2015 3:24:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/20/2015 2:55:34 AM, Sapphique wrote:
DD, why *aren't* you voting for me?

I never scum read you. I am currently digging through the 1100 post DP we just had trying to decide whether my lack of a scum read on you was because I tunneled my scum reads at the time too hard to notice you being scummy, or if it was due to you not being scummy in the first place.
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
Discipulus_Didicit
Posts: 3,086
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9/20/2015 3:43:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/20/2015 3:04:45 AM, Sapphique wrote:
Also @DD, maybe this is blindingly obvious to everyone else, but could you explain again why confirming VOT won't work if they're on the same wagon? I still don't get it.

First, to clarify, I think you meant to say Midnight rather than VOT.

*sigh* I am bad at explaining math, I will try to explain this without using math.

Keep in mind VOT was proposing that we assume he was DV and use Midnight failing to hammer someone as his method of proving Midnight had no role.

VoTs role was hidden, meaning he could have claimed he was a DV and not really been one. we now know that is not the case, we did not know that at the time. IF that had been the case then he could have done the following to fool us into thinking midnight had no vote:

-VTL someone at L-3, putting them at L-2.
-Claim his DV put that person at L-1, told Midnight to vote.
-Midnight would vote and there would be no lynch.
-They would say the non lynching was a result of Midnight having no vote.
-We would be none the wiser.

If you still don't understand then just deal with it. They are both role-confirmed as far as the votes go so it doesn't matter anymore. I am good at math, not so good at explaining it. Oh well. Move on.
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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9/20/2015 4:07:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/20/2015 2:34:20 AM, SolonKR wrote:
I don't see the scum read on Tej. He was one of the only ones to defend Ober; what was the scum motivation for that?

Pressuring Saph is good, though.
VTL Saph.

Sometimes I'll take a hard stance against lynching a towny as scum, to get some Cred when they flip.
Sapphique
Posts: 4,110
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9/20/2015 4:18:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/20/2015 3:43:34 AM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:

*lightbulb* Okay, I get it. Since the double vote doesn't show in the vote count...yeah, I get it now. Thank you. Any results from last night?
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
Discipulus_Didicit
Posts: 3,086
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9/20/2015 4:25:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/20/2015 4:18:28 AM, Sapphique wrote:
At 9/20/2015 3:43:34 AM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:

*lightbulb* Okay, I get it. Since the double vote doesn't show in the vote count...yeah, I get it now. Thank you. Any results from last night?

No results. None.
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
lannan13
Posts: 23,017
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9/20/2015 4:28:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/20/2015 4:18:28 AM, Sapphique wrote:
At 9/20/2015 3:43:34 AM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:

*lightbulb* Okay, I get it. Since the double vote doesn't show in the vote count...yeah, I get it now. Thank you. Any results from last night?

Haven't heard anything yet.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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lannan13
Posts: 23,017
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9/20/2015 4:36:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/20/2015 12:35:20 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
Thoughts on multiple protective roles in the same game?
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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lannan13
Posts: 23,017
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9/20/2015 4:37:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Did Romanii post reads last game?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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lannan13
Posts: 23,017
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9/20/2015 4:49:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
DD is pretty much the only person I have a scumread on, still mostly due to FT's logic. Everyone else is meh.

If for no other reason, I'd support lynching DD just to get information. I've always been confused as to what the hell we're supposed to do during DP1. There's nothing to work off of other than speculative behavioral analysis and pressuring for claims which aren't all that difficult to fabricate.
- Romanii

One of the key things that I have seen some noobs do is go after people who scum read them. Which would greatly place a FOS on DD.

Another reason I think it could have been is that "FT confirmed him as town" could be an issue. Since FT read him as town and saved him from a lynch the mafia could have killed him on that regards.

What still puzzles me though is why didn't they kill FT? If town, FT was out right the most dangerous threat to the mafia in this game. There is also SolonKR, who is probably with Khaos, so I think this is an obvious powerhouse here. Why neither of these two where killed puzzles me.

Saph, being left alive would also make sense on the basis of that she was very defensive of other players last DP. Which I can't quite remember who said it last DP, but they showed how Saph does this everytime she is mafia, which is a terrible method to do if you are mafia in the first place. Not to mention many of her empty rambled posts which in itself is questionable. Note that I am assuming that these people are all town for this to actually be true.

There is a scum in this pile.
FourTrouble, SolonKR, Tej, and/or Saph.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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XLAV
Posts: 13,702
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9/20/2015 5:17:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/20/2015 4:49:41 AM, lannan13 wrote:

There is a scum in this pile.
FourTrouble, SolonKR, Tej, and/or Saph.

Why these 4?
lannan13
Posts: 23,017
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9/20/2015 5:38:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/20/2015 5:17:59 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 9/20/2015 4:49:41 AM, lannan13 wrote:

There is a scum in this pile.
FourTrouble, SolonKR, Tej, and/or Saph.

Why these 4?

Because it's highly improbable that they're all town. If they were the mafia should've killed one of them. It's more obvious then the nose on a clown.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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Sapphique
Posts: 4,110
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9/20/2015 5:55:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/20/2015 4:49:41 AM, lannan13 wrote:

There is a scum in this pile.
FourTrouble, SolonKR, Tej, and/or Saph.

I actually think most if not all of these people are likely town, and I know I am town. FT is town because of his massive post output and effort at analysis. In addition, he claimed miller, then claimed to have become a voteless vanilla, and the voteless part was confirmed by the vote count. That being said, I don't get why whatever scum role did that was used--okay, remove his vote, but also removing the inherent suspicion in a miller claim seems unwise from scum's perspective, especially on such an influential player.

I quite like this post from Tej: http://www.debate.org... but because he never articulated his final opinion on Ober it's hard for me to say for certain. Also this: http://www.debate.org... I see no scum motivation for it besides potentially buddying me which I've become more wary of ever since Nightless. He also claims early, which is consistent with his town meta.

Solon...I remember liking a lot of his posts. But with so many people I am reading as town it's hard for me to come up with who I think is scum now that both Ober and Romanii are dead and pretty much confirmed. I am curious as to why Solon articulated a scumread on Ober but never ended up voting for him.
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
Sapphique
Posts: 4,110
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9/20/2015 5:56:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/20/2015 5:38:18 AM, lannan13 wrote:

Because it's highly improbable that they're all town. If they were the mafia should've killed one of them. It's more obvious then the nose on a clown.

Protective roles? Tracker/watcher type roles?
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
Sapphique
Posts: 4,110
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9/20/2015 6:06:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Barring new evidence, I absolutely won't lynch FT, XLAV, Lannan, Wylted, ford, or 101. Others are still up in the air. I am getting a bit paranoid about the Penn and Teller claim since after a little reading I found out that they got thrown out of Magic Castle for performing the cups and balls trick with clear cups and telling the audience how the trick was done...but I'm definitely not willing to lynch based on that. They're role confirmed, yes?
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch