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Beginners' Mafia 40.3: ENDGAME

Sapphique
Posts: 4,110
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10/2/2015 4:40:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Mafia wins!

MAFIA

Midnight - You are JOSEPH LISTENS-TO-WIND (INJUN JOE). Because of your remarkable ability to shapeshift, it may be impossible to determine who you really are. Thus, you are the GODFATHER. You appear innocent to Cops.

Voice - You are DONALD MORGAN. Your relentless pursuit of Harry makes you an excellent law-enforcement officer and an excellent tracker. Thus, you are the SCOUT. Each night, you may select a player; you will learn who that player visited.

Solon - You are EBENEZER MCCOY. The Blackstaff, you alone have the power to take a life. This makes you the STRONGMAN. If you carry out the NK, you bypass protective abilities.

TOWN

Ober - You are MAB. You seem scary, but I think you are good at heart, and you will be on the right side of history. Your actions in detecting Lea's disease and duplicity, and your swift actions to purge her of her affliction indicate some excellent detective skills. Plus, you always seem to have Harry's number, and so it seems like you know how to read people. Thus, you are the COP. Each night you may select a player. You will learn whether they are mafia (guilty) or not (innocent). You win with the town.

Wylted (Varrack) - You are ELDEST GRUFF. You are tasked with hunting down and killing Harry, and you do the tracking with remarkable efficiency. Thus, you are the odd-night TRACKER. Every odd night, you may select a target; you will learn who they visited that night. You win with the town.

Valkrin (Sarra) - You are MAEVE. A class-A, sutty jerk, you always seem to be throwing a wrench in someone's plan. You love to crash parties and ruin schemes, whether they are Mab's or Harry's. Thus, you are the 3-shot ROLEBLOCKER. At night, you may select a player and block them from using their role. You win with the town.

Vaar - You are GRIMALKIN. You are basically the Winter Queen's voice; you don't seem to be anything other than her puppet. Thus, you are VANILLA. You have no role. You win with the town.

DD - You are TOOT-TOOT. You take your job of guarding and protecting Harry with the utmost seriousness, for such an adorable pip-squeak. Thus, you are the DOCTOR. Each night, you may select a target and protect them from lethal actions. You win with the town.

Cotton - You are THE RAWHEAD. Because you build your body from parts of other things which you add to your whole, you are the ABSORBER. If targeted with an ability at night, you will permanently gain the use of that ability on subsequent nights. You may only use one ability per night. You win with the town.

THIRD PARTY

Lannan (Tej) - You are BIANCA. A member of the Red Court, you do not merely have a thirst for your traditional drink, but for power and influence. Because you seek to convert people to your court and to acquire servants and because of the alien behind your human veneer, you are the ALIEN. Each night you may "bite" another player, infecting them. When all living players are infected, you will have won the game.

Fake claim: Redcap

NIGHT ACTIONS

NP1

DD - protect Ober
Ober - investigate Tej
Sarra - roleblock Vaar
VOT - track Vaar
Midnight - NK DD

NP2

Ober - investigate VOT
Sarra - roleblock Wylted
Tej - infect Ober
VOT - track Wylted
Midnight - NK Ober
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
Valkrin
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10/2/2015 4:49:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Good stuff to VoT. I knew he was lying but he played it off well.
Town, you shouldn't be so quick to blindly accept stuff.
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." - Vaarka
Sapphique
Posts: 4,110
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10/2/2015 5:29:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/2/2015 4:49:01 PM, Valkrin wrote:
Good stuff to VoT. I knew he was lying but he played it off well.
Town, you shouldn't be so quick to blindly accept stuff.

^ Agree.
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
Valkrin
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10/2/2015 5:30:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Even though I was here for only one DP it still frustrated me how you all just wanted to end the DP without listening to what I had to say. It was like talking to children with fingers in their ears going "lalalalala".

I'm sorry if I sound upset, but I am. You all kept trying to fit me into the scum idea, and using what I say against me claiming I'm scum yet still, yet you refuse to believe my defense is town like, or that MY BEHAVIOR is town like in comparison to Sarra's.

It's clear no one read post 125, except Wylted, but that was only to defend scum even further. I'm seriously convinced a Wylted lynch DP1 regardless helps town. He acts so blatantly anti-town, and people have even developed this whole meta around him being this way. It's ridiculous.

If VoT were town, scum would rather kill him because they would still get rid of a power role and keep Sarra (me) off the radar. But they killed Ober instead, so that I would be left exposed. No one in their right mind would do that as scum.

But I restate my point. Town deserved to lose.
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." - Vaarka
The-Voice-of-Truth
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10/2/2015 5:38:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/2/2015 5:30:27 PM, Valkrin wrote:

If VoT were town, scum would rather kill him because they would still get rid of a power role and keep Sarra (me) off the radar. But they killed Ober instead, so that I would be left exposed. No one in their right mind would do that as scum.

I actually advocated for a Cotton NK in our PM on NP2, but Midnight went with Ober. I'm kinda glad he did, though; I would've been exposed scum.

We left you alive to say that you were scum. Seeing that my first 2 names were dead townies, you would be the only one left to implicate as scum. Besides, you had no real effective way to defend yourself. Sarra posting in the PM helped the cause, since Roleblocker is more often than not a scum role. It was basically your word against mine, and then the most-unfortunate post in the announcement PM pretty much sealed the deal.

But I restate my point. Town deserved to lose.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,542
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10/2/2015 5:39:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
And, yes, Town deserved to lose this game.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
Valkrin
Posts: 2,046
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10/2/2015 5:39:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yeah. Good job though. You guys played well.
Town, however...
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." - Vaarka
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,542
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10/2/2015 5:40:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/2/2015 5:39:27 PM, Valkrin wrote:
Yeah. Good job though. You guys played well.
Town, however...

Well, you and Cotton had it together. GG to y'all both.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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10/2/2015 7:31:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/2/2015 4:48:11 PM, Valkrin wrote:
Lol wylted
Obvious scum right here

You're really bad at this game and it's sad the 1% possibility came true. This means Sarra knew with 100% certainty that VOT was scum and yet didn't block him, this means that you had a role that had a 5% possibility of being town and Sarra was dumb enough to pretend like she had a great role and resist claiming, an even lower percentage fact. You needed to not point out why VOT was scum but make a case for why the odds of him being scum was high.
Wylted
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10/2/2015 7:33:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/2/2015 4:49:01 PM, Valkrin wrote:
Good stuff to VoT. I knew he was lying but he played it off well.
Town, you shouldn't be so quick to blindly accept stuff.

It's not blind acceptance. I had a chance to confirm he was scum but was roleblocker. I planned to track him to see if he still claimed to be dreaming, and I would've caught him, but some genius role blocked me, and then lied and said it blocked the NK. Do we need to consider possibilities? Yes, but we need to act on high percentage plays and the high percentage play was lynching you
Wylted
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10/2/2015 7:36:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/2/2015 5:30:27 PM, Valkrin wrote:
Even though I was here for only one DP it still frustrated me how you all just wanted to end the DP without listening to what I had to say. It was like talking to children with fingers in their ears going "lalalalala".

I'm sorry if I sound upset, but I am. You all kept trying to fit me into the scum idea, and using what I say against me claiming I'm scum yet still, yet you refuse to believe my defense is town like, or that MY BEHAVIOR is town like in comparison to Sarra's.

It's clear no one read post 125, except Wylted, but that was only to defend scum even further. I'm seriously convinced a Wylted lynch DP1 regardless helps town. He acts so blatantly anti-town, and people have even developed this whole meta around him being this way. It's ridiculous.

If VoT were town, scum would rather kill him because they would still get rid of a power role and keep Sarra (me) off the radar. But they killed Ober instead, so that I would be left exposed. No one in their right mind would do that as scum.

But I restate my point. Town deserved to lose.

That is just blatantly untrue. As scum it would still be done, because after the CC Ober was confirmed town, and he was also the cop.
Wylted
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10/2/2015 7:39:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/2/2015 5:40:53 PM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 10/2/2015 5:39:27 PM, Valkrin wrote:
Yeah. Good job though. You guys played well.
Town, however...

Well, you and Cotton had it together. GG to y'all both.

No they didn't. He just kept saying that we should absolutely forget Sarra's behavior, which is untrue. We should use both their behaviors to analyze them. Also Cotton made the low percentage play. The 1% play happened to be true this time, but 99 out of 100 times it would not be, so horrible move on her part.
Valkrin
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10/2/2015 8:32:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I love it how Wylted says I'm bad yet he failed to notice I was town
Lmao
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." - Vaarka
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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10/2/2015 8:57:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/2/2015 8:32:07 PM, Valkrin wrote:
I love it how Wylted says I'm bad yet he failed to notice I was town
Lmao

Well, I'm not psychic. If I were in your shoes I would've made good arguments. Notice how I'm always NKed and almost never lynched.
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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10/2/2015 11:55:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The endgame should not have been posted. The TP still was in the game and should have still had a shot at winning.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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10/2/2015 11:56:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
***ATTENTION***

Mafia has JOINT WON with the TP. Lannan and mafia won together.

The DP should not have ended since the TP was still alive and could--in theory--still have met their wincon.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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10/3/2015 12:02:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/2/2015 7:31:40 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 10/2/2015 4:48:11 PM, Valkrin wrote:
Lol wylted
Obvious scum right here

You're really bad at this game and it's sad the 1% possibility came true.

Wylted, you're analysis was downright terrible. If anyone was wrong here, it was you. I honestly don't understand how you read stuff like this and not rethink: "Ober CONVENIENTLY died during the night. Which means that Sarra (I) would be the only one in the dream alive this DP. Why would scum do that and intentionally out one of the members of scum? That's just counterintuitive, and the only reason they would only do it is for a mislynch, more specifically, my mislynch, because I'm actually town. Scum would've wanted to keep Ober alive, because they knew with HIS DEATH, the scum would be outed. So why kill Ober? They knew that VoT wasn't actually the dreamer, and that his lie would ultimately lead to the deaths of 3 people because they just blindly accepted it." [http://www.debate.org...]

You tunneled so majorly it wasn't funny. You have to keep an open mind, because once you tunnel, you lose perspective and miss evidence that could've helped you.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
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Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Discipulus_Didicit
Posts: 3,086
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10/3/2015 12:58:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 12:02:53 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/2/2015 7:31:40 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 10/2/2015 4:48:11 PM, Valkrin wrote:
Lol wylted
Obvious scum right here

You're really bad at this game and it's sad the 1% possibility came true.

Wylted, you're analysis was downright terrible. If anyone was wrong here, it was you. I honestly don't understand how you read stuff like this and not rethink: "Ober CONVENIENTLY died during the night. Which means that Sarra (I) would be the only one in the dream alive this DP. Why would scum do that and intentionally out one of the members of scum? That's just counterintuitive, and the only reason they would only do it is for a mislynch, more specifically, my mislynch, because I'm actually town. Scum would've wanted to keep Ober alive, because they knew with HIS DEATH, the scum would be outed. So why kill Ober? They knew that VoT wasn't actually the dreamer, and that his lie would ultimately lead to the deaths of 3 people because they just blindly accepted it." [http://www.debate.org...]

You tunneled so majorly it wasn't funny. You have to keep an open mind, because once you tunnel, you lose perspective and miss evidence that could've helped you.

Obers death was not convenient in any way. He was a confirmed cop. Since the doc was dead the killing of a claimed cop was mafias next obvious choice. It does not matter if VoT was town or scum, flavored or not, the mafia would have been stupid not to kill Ober due to him being an unprotected cop. Any further analysis of Obers death therefore was pure speculation at best.

The only reason VoT was able to get away with fake claiming dreamer is because the begginers series games are so incredibly small and reach MYLO so soon every time.

The way I see it Wylted actually did the right thing this time. I put it down to sheer luck, but it was the right thing all the same.
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
Wylted
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10/3/2015 1:03:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 12:02:53 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/2/2015 7:31:40 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 10/2/2015 4:48:11 PM, Valkrin wrote:
Lol wylted
Obvious scum right here

You're really bad at this game and it's sad the 1% possibility came true.

Wylted, you're analysis was downright terrible. If anyone was wrong here, it was you. I honestly don't understand how you read stuff like this and not rethink: "Ober CONVENIENTLY died during the night. Which means that Sarra (I) would be the only one in the dream alive this DP. Why would scum do that and intentionally out one of the members of scum? That's just counterintuitive, and the only reason they would only do it is for a mislynch, more specifically, my mislynch, because I'm actually town. Scum would've wanted to keep Ober alive, because they knew with HIS DEATH, the scum would be outed. So why kill Ober? They knew that VoT wasn't actually the dreamer, and that his lie would ultimately lead to the deaths of 3 people because they just blindly accepted it." [http://www.debate.org...]

You tunneled so majorly it wasn't funny. You have to keep an open mind, because once you tunnel, you lose perspective and miss evidence that could've helped you.

I disagree. There was no way Sarra wasn't getting lynched the next day. Ober was confirmed town in my book after that CC. So leaving him alive would just give him a chance to find the last scum after Sarra assuming he was scum. If I was in Sarra's shoes as scum I would've killed Ober, because I'd just assume I'm the next list. No matter who the scum team was, the kill had to be Ober. I guess a second but inferior option would be to roleblock Ober and kill somebody else so there was a little bit of doubt, but it's not something I'd expect most scum teams to do. As scum I'd kill Ober on that DP. I didn't really miss the other evidence. I understand from your informed perspective you maybe thought so, but I considered everything brought up, however typical roleblocker is a scum role, typically the person with that role as town will know it's a horrible role and will usually just be a vanilla and not even use it.

The only piece of evidence that made me consider the fact that Sarra might not be scum is the fact that Sarra was so reluctant to role claim the day before. It was extremely anti town to not claim that role the second she was on the firing line, it looked scummy that she thought that was a power role, but I thought as scum in that spot I'd be happy to claim ASAP, so her not claiming seemed to have no scum motive and actually be a bad ideal for scum and that bothered me, but nothing else stood out as strong evidence of her being town.

And let's not forget that VOT's claim was extremely bossy and high risk high reward. He had no way of knowing whether anybody visited him both nights, the luck necessary to make that fake claim work was in his favor. I don't think anybody in my shoes would think that scum was ballsy enough to fake claim that, just because of the sheer amount of luck needed to pull off the claim. It was a very good play by VOT, and I disagree with him that town deserved to lose. I think he did an excellent job and that almost anybody else in my position would have gambled on Sarra being scum.
Wylted
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10/3/2015 1:05:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 12:58:24 AM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
At 10/3/2015 12:02:53 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/2/2015 7:31:40 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 10/2/2015 4:48:11 PM, Valkrin wrote:
Lol wylted
Obvious scum right here

You're really bad at this game and it's sad the 1% possibility came true.

Wylted, you're analysis was downright terrible. If anyone was wrong here, it was you. I honestly don't understand how you read stuff like this and not rethink: "Ober CONVENIENTLY died during the night. Which means that Sarra (I) would be the only one in the dream alive this DP. Why would scum do that and intentionally out one of the members of scum? That's just counterintuitive, and the only reason they would only do it is for a mislynch, more specifically, my mislynch, because I'm actually town. Scum would've wanted to keep Ober alive, because they knew with HIS DEATH, the scum would be outed. So why kill Ober? They knew that VoT wasn't actually the dreamer, and that his lie would ultimately lead to the deaths of 3 people because they just blindly accepted it." [http://www.debate.org...]

You tunneled so majorly it wasn't funny. You have to keep an open mind, because once you tunnel, you lose perspective and miss evidence that could've helped you.

Obers death was not convenient in any way. He was a confirmed cop. Since the doc was dead the killing of a claimed cop was mafias next obvious choice. It does not matter if VoT was town or scum, flavored or not, the mafia would have been stupid not to kill Ober due to him being an unprotected cop. Any further analysis of Obers death therefore was pure speculation at best.

The only reason VoT was able to get away with fake claiming dreamer is because the begginers series games are so incredibly small and reach MYLO so soon every time.

The way I see it Wylted actually did the right thing this time. I put it down to sheer luck, but it was the right thing all the same.

I agree with you, and internally I blame myself for every loss, even if outwardly not doing so. I don't think Val did anything wrong, but I didn't do anything wrong either. VOT made an excellent play
bsh1
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10/3/2015 1:13:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 12:58:24 AM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
At 10/3/2015 12:02:53 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/2/2015 7:31:40 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 10/2/2015 4:48:11 PM, Valkrin wrote:
Lol wylted
Obvious scum right here

You're really bad at this game and it's sad the 1% possibility came true.

Wylted, you're analysis was downright terrible. If anyone was wrong here, it was you. I honestly don't understand how you read stuff like this and not rethink: "Ober CONVENIENTLY died during the night. Which means that Sarra (I) would be the only one in the dream alive this DP. Why would scum do that and intentionally out one of the members of scum? That's just counterintuitive, and the only reason they would only do it is for a mislynch, more specifically, my mislynch, because I'm actually town. Scum would've wanted to keep Ober alive, because they knew with HIS DEATH, the scum would be outed. So why kill Ober? They knew that VoT wasn't actually the dreamer, and that his lie would ultimately lead to the deaths of 3 people because they just blindly accepted it." [http://www.debate.org...]

You tunneled so majorly it wasn't funny. You have to keep an open mind, because once you tunnel, you lose perspective and miss evidence that could've helped you.

Obers death was not convenient in any way. He was a confirmed cop. Since the doc was dead the killing of a claimed cop was mafias next obvious choice. It does not matter if VoT was town or scum, flavored or not, the mafia would have been stupid not to kill Ober due to him being an unprotected cop. Any further analysis of Obers death therefore was pure speculation at best.

I very strongly disagree with this. Keep in mind that the third game is balanced. What this means is that mafia would have some mechanism of stopping the cop--in this case, a godfather. Moreover, it is quite possible mafia could've orchestrated Ober's CC to appear to confirm him, had he been mafia. This strategy has been implmented before...I think by Wylted, no less. So, it was by no means necessary that mafia kill Ober. The trade-off made no sense.

Mafia, by killing Ober, would CONFIRM one of their own as scum, despite a 1/6 chance that they would be copped. So, mafia would 100% lose someone by killing Ober, but only had a 16.66% chance of losing someone by not killing Ober. This should have told town, if they had investigated it a bit further, that Sarra was not guaranteed scum. Plus, town NEVER questioned the validity of Voice's claim, or at least they never seriously questioned it.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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10/3/2015 1:14:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 1:03:10 AM, Wylted wrote:

See my reply to Disc.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
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Wylted
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10/3/2015 1:32:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 1:14:25 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/3/2015 1:03:10 AM, Wylted wrote:

See my reply to Disc.

Let's say that you decide that there is a significant chance that VOT is not a dreamer, so you take the odds to be 50/50 between VOT and Val being scum,. Then what? You still have to make a decision on who to kill. Waiting another DP seems pointless as well. I'm dead the next DP, then town will still lynch Val or cotton will be stubborn and turn the situation into a no lynch gaurunteeing a loss the next DP. Are you telling me that with the knowledge available you'd scum read VOT and town read Val? If that's the case you're extremely good at this game. I am aware that scum could do the things you mentioned, I just didn't think they'd be smart enough to pull a fake CC DP 1, or ballsy enough to fake a dreamer and results twice in a row, when God knows who could've visited VOT. I was hoping a towny would visit VOT, to catch him incase he decided to fake results, but unfortunately that didn't happen.

Then again, maybe the fact he got results a second day in a row should have thrown up a red flag, but I assumed they had a godfather and Sarra was carrying out the NK and afraid I'd track her to it.
bsh1
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10/3/2015 3:09:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 1:32:06 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 10/3/2015 1:14:25 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/3/2015 1:03:10 AM, Wylted wrote:

See my reply to Disc.

Let's say that you decide that there is a significant chance that VOT is not a dreamer, so you take the odds to be 50/50 between VOT and Val being scum,. Then what?

Then you do what townies do, and listen as impartially as possible to both cases and determine who you'll vote for. But that's not what you did. You tunneled Val from the get-go.

Are you telling me that with the knowledge available you'd scum read VOT and town read Val? If that's the case you're extremely good at this game.

Yeah, I would've. Just look at Val's responses: they're genuinely angry town. Mafia would've been more panicked or trepidatious, but that reaction was very indignant, which screams townie. Plus, Val didn't have bad logic, even if you though there were flaws.

I am aware that scum could do the things you mentioned, I just didn't think they'd be smart enough to pull a fake CC DP 1, or ballsy enough to fake a dreamer and results twice in a row, when God knows who could've visited VOT.

I NEVER have dreamers whose dreams are disrupted by visits, so that was a non-issue. It was incredibly safe for mafia to fake dreamer results. And you've been in games before where I've explained my policy on dreamer results and visitations.
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Discipulus_Didicit
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10/3/2015 3:21:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 1:13:30 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Mafia, by killing Ober, would CONFIRM one of their own as scum, despite a 1/6 chance that they would be copped.

Ober was already confirmed. The NK did nothing at all whatsoever to confirm Obers alignment, not even a little bit, because he was already 110% confirmed town DP1.
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
bsh1
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10/3/2015 3:23:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 3:21:28 AM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
At 10/3/2015 1:13:30 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Mafia, by killing Ober, would CONFIRM one of their own as scum, despite a 1/6 chance that they would be copped.

Ober was already confirmed.

No, Ober was NOT confirmed. This was something I had already explained.

Also, since I know you did a lot of theme analysis, you should be aware that a TON of werewolves are in the Dresden Files, and so it was perfectly possible that mafia had a list of every townie (through the werewolf role) and that would've allowed them to pull off a gambit more easily like the one I described. But, even without that role, Ober was by NO means confirmed.
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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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Discipulus_Didicit
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10/3/2015 3:35:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 1:05:48 AM, Wylted wrote:
I don't think Val did anything wrong, but I didn't do anything wrong either. VOT made an excellent play

I see nothing wrong with any of the townies plays. Sarra could have been a bit better but she definitely isn't the reason we lost, nor is the fault on any townie.

VoT pulled a cheap trick that only worked because of the unusually high scum to town ratio in beginner games.

Think about it. We lynched scum with the first hundred posts of DP1. Awesome start, but all it took after that was just one mislynch to bring us to MYLO. If we were not at MYLO so soon we would have discovered VoT was lying and probably lynched him (depending on whether he could convince us he was flavored) Instead because of sudden death MYLO town literally had no choice but to believe VoT. There was nothing else to go off of.
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
Discipulus_Didicit
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10/3/2015 3:40:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/3/2015 3:23:58 AM, bsh1 wrote:

No idea what the werewolf role is, but seriously think about this for a moment. Why would scum CC another scum immediately after the game starts? That's not just silly, that's stupid.
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^