Total Posts:162|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Why is mafia on DDO dead?

XLAV
Posts: 13,710
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2015 7:52:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Anyway, let me list the reasons why townies are sucking so much.
- Inactivity
- Unskilled or lack of skill in scum hunting
- Lots of noobs
- Conservative plays
- Too reliant on roles and theme
- A lot of good old players are inactive in the mafia scene, including me
XLAV
Posts: 13,710
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2015 7:57:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Just look at Wylted's sign-up list

At 10/9/2015 1:48:57 AM, Wylted wrote:
1. V-Bird
2. Buttercat
3. Vaarka
4. lannan13
5. Valkrin
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
bunch of noobs + lannan
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2015 8:18:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/9/2015 7:52:58 PM, XLAV wrote:
- Conservative plays

I agree with this. The new players are so afraid of looking scummy or being wrong that they don't ever take strong positions or produce telling behavior, which is part of what's promoting the inactivity. It also impedes their ability to scumhunt because they read anything that's not conservative as scummy, so scum simply play conservative while anyone who actively tries winning the game (e.g. me in Illusionists) gets lynched.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2015 8:20:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
A while ago, it seemed like it was just a burnout phase, but now, there seems to be a drop in the skills of players. There's a lot of new players who have yet to develop their abilities, and a lot of the older players don't play very often. People like BlackVoid, F-16, Maikuru, Hatstand, and you (FT) either rarely play or vanish from the site for long periods of time. Daltonian and Khaos are gone too. Then you have good players like me, Solon, and XLAV who've gotten rusty during our breaks from mafia.
lannan13
Posts: 23,029
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2015 8:39:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/9/2015 7:57:04 PM, XLAV wrote:
Just look at Wylted's sign-up list

At 10/9/2015 1:48:57 AM, Wylted wrote:
1. V-Bird
2. Buttercat
3. Vaarka
4. lannan13
5. Valkrin
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
bunch of noobs + lannan

What's wrong with lannan?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2015 8:43:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/9/2015 8:39:52 PM, lannan13 wrote:
What's wrong with lannan?

You still focus on roles/theme instead of behaviors. This affects how others play around you. I think if you ignored roles/theme entirely, you'd become a better player and encourage others to be better too.
lannan13
Posts: 23,029
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2015 8:45:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/9/2015 8:43:43 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 10/9/2015 8:39:52 PM, lannan13 wrote:
What's wrong with lannan?

You still focus on roles/theme instead of behaviors. This affects how others play around you. I think if you ignored roles/theme entirely, you'd become a better player and encourage others to be better too.

Perhaps you could PM me and help me out on behavior analysis. (I'm being serious.)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
ButterCatX
Posts: 2,228
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2015 8:52:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/9/2015 7:57:04 PM, XLAV wrote:
Just look at Wylted's sign-up list

At 10/9/2015 1:48:57 AM, Wylted wrote:
1. V-Bird
2. Buttercat
3. Vaarka
4. lannan13
5. Valkrin
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
bunch of noobs + lannan

I take offense at that, you yourself said that I was good at mafia.
I bet fanfics are already being posted on random blogs about us.-Vaarka

Butters preformed his duty to the town and died with honor, he helped us kill scum, so we know have to go and make sure his death wasn't in vain and win this game for him.-lannan13

All hail the great and mighty Butters, who died for our inactive cause.-Vaarka

fuckith offith, lol.-Ore(talking to me)

And guess what happened to FT? He got raped to death.-Xlav

You are so obviously town I love you man.-VOT
lannan13
Posts: 23,029
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2015 8:57:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/9/2015 8:52:26 PM, ButterCatX wrote:
At 10/9/2015 7:57:04 PM, XLAV wrote:
Just look at Wylted's sign-up list

At 10/9/2015 1:48:57 AM, Wylted wrote:
1. V-Bird
2. Buttercat
3. Vaarka
4. lannan13
5. Valkrin
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
bunch of noobs + lannan

I take offense at that, you yourself said that I was good at mafia.

Not to mention that it was XLAV of all people.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
ButterCatX
Posts: 2,228
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2015 8:59:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/9/2015 8:57:22 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 10/9/2015 8:52:26 PM, ButterCatX wrote:
At 10/9/2015 7:57:04 PM, XLAV wrote:
Just look at Wylted's sign-up list

At 10/9/2015 1:48:57 AM, Wylted wrote:
1. V-Bird
2. Buttercat
3. Vaarka
4. lannan13
5. Valkrin
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
bunch of noobs + lannan

I take offense at that, you yourself said that I was good at mafia.

Not to mention that it was XLAV of all people.

so true, I had the "honor" of playing a game with xlav on multiple occasions.
I bet fanfics are already being posted on random blogs about us.-Vaarka

Butters preformed his duty to the town and died with honor, he helped us kill scum, so we know have to go and make sure his death wasn't in vain and win this game for him.-lannan13

All hail the great and mighty Butters, who died for our inactive cause.-Vaarka

fuckith offith, lol.-Ore(talking to me)

And guess what happened to FT? He got raped to death.-Xlav

You are so obviously town I love you man.-VOT
lannan13
Posts: 23,029
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2015 9:05:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/9/2015 8:59:38 PM, ButterCatX wrote:
At 10/9/2015 8:57:22 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 10/9/2015 8:52:26 PM, ButterCatX wrote:
At 10/9/2015 7:57:04 PM, XLAV wrote:
Just look at Wylted's sign-up list

At 10/9/2015 1:48:57 AM, Wylted wrote:
1. V-Bird
2. Buttercat
3. Vaarka
4. lannan13
5. Valkrin
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
bunch of noobs + lannan

I take offense at that, you yourself said that I was good at mafia.

Not to mention that it was XLAV of all people.

so true, I had the "honor" of playing a game with xlav on multiple occasions.

lol.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
ValosaBirdy
Posts: 1,184
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2015 9:50:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/9/2015 8:18:08 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 10/9/2015 7:52:58 PM, XLAV wrote:
- Conservative plays

I agree with this. The new players are so afraid of looking scummy or being wrong that they don't ever take strong positions or produce telling behavior, which is part of what's promoting the inactivity. It also impedes their ability to scumhunt because they read anything that's not conservative as scummy, so scum simply play conservative while anyone who actively tries winning the game (e.g. me in Illusionists) gets lynched.

then teach us.
XLAV
Posts: 13,710
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/10/2015 2:50:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/9/2015 8:52:26 PM, ButterCatX wrote:

I take offense at that, you yourself said that I was good at mafia.

When did I say that exactly?
ButterCatX
Posts: 2,228
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/10/2015 3:00:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/10/2015 2:50:58 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 10/9/2015 8:52:26 PM, ButterCatX wrote:

I take offense at that, you yourself said that I was good at mafia.

When did I say that exactly?

like 6 months ago
I bet fanfics are already being posted on random blogs about us.-Vaarka

Butters preformed his duty to the town and died with honor, he helped us kill scum, so we know have to go and make sure his death wasn't in vain and win this game for him.-lannan13

All hail the great and mighty Butters, who died for our inactive cause.-Vaarka

fuckith offith, lol.-Ore(talking to me)

And guess what happened to FT? He got raped to death.-Xlav

You are so obviously town I love you man.-VOT
Sapphique
Posts: 4,110
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/10/2015 3:03:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/9/2015 7:52:58 PM, XLAV wrote:
Anyway, let me list the reasons why townies are sucking so much.
- Inactivity
- Unskilled or lack of skill in scum hunting
- Lots of noobs
- Conservative plays
- Too reliant on roles and theme
- A lot of good old players are inactive in the mafia scene, including me

How would you suggest that we as a community fix these problems?
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
XLAV
Posts: 13,710
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/10/2015 4:42:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/10/2015 3:03:51 AM, Sapphique wrote:
At 10/9/2015 7:52:58 PM, XLAV wrote:
Anyway, let me list the reasons why townies are sucking so much.
- Inactivity
- Unskilled or lack of skill in scum hunting
- Lots of noobs
- Conservative plays
- Too reliant on roles and theme
- A lot of good old players are inactive in the mafia scene, including me

How would you suggest that we as a community fix these problems?

I agree with FT about revamping the beginners' series. Maybe make the first game of the series into all vanillas - goons. This can help noobs to focus on behavior analysis rather than roles and themes.

Most of the mafia players nowadays are noobs so instead of bringing back the old days we should improve the new generation of mafia players.
XLAV
Posts: 13,710
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/10/2015 4:43:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Also be active, if not, ask for a replacement as soon as possible. I knew I wasn't going to be active in both of my games so I asked the mods to replace me.
Sapphique
Posts: 4,110
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/10/2015 4:47:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/10/2015 4:42:12 AM, XLAV wrote:
I agree with FT about revamping the beginners' series. Maybe make the first game of the series into all vanillas - goons. This can help noobs to focus on behavior analysis rather than roles and themes.

Most of the mafia players nowadays are noobs so instead of bringing back the old days we should improve the new generation of mafia players.

I like the idea of the first game being role-less, actually. Roles and TPs can be combined into the 2nd game, and the 3rd game stays the same.
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
XLAV
Posts: 13,710
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/10/2015 5:03:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Oh yeah, one important thing that I've also noticed.

Be PATIENT.

God damn I realized that a lot of the recent games were loses because noobs were voting without waiting, discussing or even thinking during MyLo and LyLo.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/10/2015 6:39:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/10/2015 4:42:12 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 10/10/2015 3:03:51 AM, Sapphique wrote:
At 10/9/2015 7:52:58 PM, XLAV wrote:
Anyway, let me list the reasons why townies are sucking so much.
- Inactivity
- Unskilled or lack of skill in scum hunting
- Lots of noobs
- Conservative plays
- Too reliant on roles and theme
- A lot of good old players are inactive in the mafia scene, including me

How would you suggest that we as a community fix these problems?

I agree with FT about revamping the beginners' series. Maybe make the first game of the series into all vanillas - goons. This can help noobs to focus on behavior analysis rather than roles and themes.

We tried that. It did not work well.

Most of the mafia players nowadays are noobs so instead of bringing back the old days we should improve the new generation of mafia players.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Bullish
Posts: 3,527
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/10/2015 7:07:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think its just because of the types of people who have been joining DDP since it has been marketted as a "social networking" site. They are too instant-gratification oriented to be able to play mafia, and only do so because it is the establishment.
0x5f3759df
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/10/2015 5:44:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you want to prevent burnout, change the set-up to one game at a time. There simply isn't enough players to have two games go without forcing a few people to play in literally every game.

The beginner's series should have three or four ringers, instead of two. The more exposure noobs have to how experienced players play, the better. The only way to make sure mafia is preserved on DDO is to make enough competent players out of the new members. You can't write them off (and really, I think some people do that too much), or else you're not going to have games at all by perhaps halfway through next year - if not earlier.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/11/2015 2:06:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/9/2015 7:29:50 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
Thoughts?

I think mostly a lack of passion and the personality of the people who play mafia. In the old days, people like bluesteel, Danielle, TUF and TVellalott put in massive amouts of effort into mafia games. At the time I first joined, BlackVoid, drafterman, SocialPinko, PartamRuhem, Logic-On-Rails, Mestari, Raisor were all very active and tried to solve games. Just look at games like Death in Mystere and you'll see how much effort people put into games. Then there was an influx of members like FT and IFLY who brought it to another level. The last wave of players (Maikuru, Yraelz, OneElephant) have also now faded out. Skepsikyma, YYW, and XLAV leaving was the final nail.

The current crop of players have no passion for the game. Most can't be bothered to even solve the game for behavioral analysis. It just comes down to near-random voting where no one is even interested at looking at games beyond just a surface level. So, when I see a playerlist filled with players like ValosaBirdy, Midnight1131, Vaarka, Buttercat, and Lannan13, I have no desire to sign up for the game because it'll be a bore. Nobody gives a sh!t about the game which will just make it drag on and on. I'm not going to enjoy the game at all.

It is not about skill. It is about how much they care. I'll happily play mafia any day with people that care about it. Sapphique cares enough to solicit feedback and improve as a player. But those types of players are few and far between. I've considered joining a beginner's game to teach people how to play but when no one cares, it is pointless.
Sapphique
Posts: 4,110
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/11/2015 2:23:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/11/2015 2:06:41 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:

If few or no experienced players ever sign up for a game with people who aren't as good, they won't improve either, I think. Join Wylted's game--Solon, Valkrin, and I are signed up. You could help us a lot (or wreck us if you're scum lol, but that's fine too as long as you're in it).
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
Sapphique
Posts: 4,110
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/11/2015 2:24:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/10/2015 6:39:47 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

We tried that. It did not work well.
Why not?
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/11/2015 2:26:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/11/2015 2:24:50 AM, Sapphique wrote:
At 10/10/2015 6:39:47 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

We tried that. It did not work well.
Why not?

I don't think it matters why - it just didn't.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/11/2015 2:27:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/10/2015 5:44:07 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
You can't write them off (and really, I think some people do that too much), or else you're not going to have games at all by perhaps halfway through next year - if not earlier.

Point proven.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Sapphique
Posts: 4,110
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/11/2015 2:32:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/11/2015 2:26:15 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

I don't think it matters why - it just didn't.

What went wrong? Is there a better way to reform the beginners' series?
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch