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Civilization IV Mafia: DP 1

ford_prefect
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10/15/2015 11:54:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Welcome to Civilization IV Mafia!

https://www.youtube.com...

DPs will last 3 days max, NPs will last 2 days max. This game contains a mix of standard and non-standard roles, but there are no hidden flavors.

Do not expect official updates to the vote count on weekdays during the day, as I will be at work. If players want to keep unofficial vote counts, that would be great. All votes must be bolded, but you do not have to unvote before revoting. Direct quotes from PMs are not allowed, and players will be modkilled if they do so. Paraphrasing is fine.


Living Players:
1. TheDebater_101
2. Yama
3. lannan13
4. Wylted
5. Airmax1227
6. Beginner
7. Sapphique
8. Famous Debater
9. SolonKR
10. 7th
11. Khaos
12. Zaradi

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Plurality lynching is not in effect.
airmax1227
Posts: 13,245
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10/16/2015 12:07:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
So I know this theme a little bit, being familiar with the civilization series. So I imagine that "characters" are designed from any of several game mechanic elements (civilizations, technologies, great people etc).

It may be worth getting a game mechanic element claim (I am a civilization, I am a great person etc) from everyone early on simply to lock people into something... though we can discuss that as we move through this DP.

For now I'd like a full claim from Khaos. My reasoning for that is because I fear Khaos, whether he is town or mafia.

After Khaos I'm likely going to want a claim from Famous since among all the players I am unfamiliar with in this game, he's the one I am the most unfamiliar with (along with a couple others - but I'm going with him first).
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airmax1227
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10/16/2015 12:13:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
my bad... should have actually voted

VTL Khaos

For full claim.

To be clear Khaos, I want your character, your role, and your role justification.

My justification for voting you this early is because I fear you as either town or mafia. As the latter I know how dangerous it is to allow you to stay under the radar and allow you to manipulate the DP. As town, there is a tendency to view your play style as occasionally scummy whether fair or not (and I have been guilty of this) and I'd rather move away from that early on, get a claim from you, and then move on to pressuring someone else.
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SolonKR
Posts: 4,043
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10/16/2015 12:16:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Khaos is fine, though I think he should only element claim for now.
VTL Khaos

Also, man, the opening reminded me that Civ IV's soundtrack is FANTASTIC. Y'all should listen to Baba Yetu as well; it even won a Grammy, yo:
SO to Bailey, the love of my life <3
lannan13
Posts: 23,111
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10/16/2015 12:20:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Alright, so my wifi is total crap tonight so I won't be posting much, so forgive me on that part.

I haven't done much of the games, but I've played Civilization Revolution. That's as close as I'll get.

My soft claim is an action of Siddartha.

VTL Airmax

For claim, plus you're online.
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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ford_prefect
Posts: 4,143
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10/16/2015 12:20:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 12:16:04 AM, SolonKR wrote:

Also, man, the opening reminded me that Civ IV's soundtrack is FANTASTIC. Y'all should listen to Baba Yetu as well; it even won a Grammy, yo:

Couldn't agree more. Great soundtrack for a great game!
airmax1227
Posts: 13,245
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10/16/2015 12:24:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 12:16:04 AM, SolonKR wrote:
Khaos is fine, though I think he should only element claim for now.
VTL Khaos

I disagree. I want a full claim from Khaos. The later claims can just be elements and/or characters, but I want a full claim in this case.

I'm not sure I'd settle for just "element" either from a second claim this DP either.

At this point, barring other suggestions or my own reconsidering of how I think this should play out, I'd like a full claim from Khaos, a character claim from a second player, and then I think it's fair for everyone else to element claim.

I really don't see a downside to element claims from everyone. It doesn't imply power roles, so it's not anti-town in any way, and it locks people in to later claims. So unless I'm not thinking of something, I only see upside from a mass element claim.

Also, man, the opening reminded me that Civ IV's soundtrack is FANTASTIC. Y'all should listen to Baba Yetu as well; it even won a Grammy, yo

yeah I remember that opening music well, it's good stuff.
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SolonKR
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10/16/2015 12:25:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think I already know the theme, though that soft claim is sufficiently vague. I'm pretty sure Lannan is town, unless
@Ford: Were the mafia given fake claims?
SO to Bailey, the love of my life <3
airmax1227
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10/16/2015 12:26:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 12:20:21 AM, lannan13 wrote:
Alright, so my wifi is total crap tonight so I won't be posting much, so forgive me on that part.

I haven't done much of the games, but I've played Civilization Revolution. That's as close as I'll get.

My soft claim is an action of Siddartha.

VTL Airmax

For claim, plus you're online.

I will definitely element claim this DP... and perhaps I will character claim... but I wont be doing either until Khaos full claims.
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ford_prefect
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10/16/2015 12:28:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 12:25:39 AM, SolonKR wrote:
I think I already know the theme, though that soft claim is sufficiently vague. I'm pretty sure Lannan is town, unless
@Ford: Were the mafia given fake claims?

I did not give mafia fake claims
SolonKR
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10/16/2015 12:28:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 12:24:39 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
Yeah, I changed my mind. I don't want people to element claim any more. Can you think of some clever way to conceal your character like Lannan did? For example, I'm an action that Sitting Bull did.
SO to Bailey, the love of my life <3
Zaradi
Posts: 14,127
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10/16/2015 12:30:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Airmax, why famous over other people you're not familiar with?

And why should being scared of someone necessitate their claims?
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airmax1227
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10/16/2015 12:30:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 12:28:03 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 10/16/2015 12:25:39 AM, SolonKR wrote:
I think I already know the theme, though that soft claim is sufficiently vague. I'm pretty sure Lannan is town, unless
@Ford: Were the mafia given fake claims?

I did not give mafia fake claims

And that pretty much guarantees the utility of element claims this DP, so again, unless someone for some reason sees this differently than I do (and I'd like to hear why), after the first two claims I'm going to insist on a mass element claim.
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Zaradi
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10/16/2015 12:32:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 12:30:38 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 10/16/2015 12:28:03 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 10/16/2015 12:25:39 AM, SolonKR wrote:
I think I already know the theme, though that soft claim is sufficiently vague. I'm pretty sure Lannan is town, unless
@Ford: Were the mafia given fake claims?

I did not give mafia fake claims

And that pretty much guarantees the utility of element claims this DP, so again, unless someone for some reason sees this differently than I do (and I'd like to hear why), after the first two claims I'm going to insist on a mass element claim.

Why give the mafia two claims to go off of? Why not just straight off the bat?
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airmax1227
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10/16/2015 12:32:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 12:28:57 AM, SolonKR wrote:
At 10/16/2015 12:24:39 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
Yeah, I changed my mind. I don't want people to element claim any more.

Why?

Can you think of some clever way to conceal your character like Lannan did? For example, I'm an action that Sitting Bull did.

Just don't claim your actual character. Lannan is now locked into a character claim just like you are, so that's fine. You two have both essentially claimed as much as you need to this DP without character claiming.

Civ 4 has a bunch of elements so it's not like it narrows down anything too much, but it can help catch mafia later.
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airmax1227
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10/16/2015 12:34:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 12:30:04 AM, Zaradi wrote:
Airmax, why famous over other people you're not familiar with?

He's the newest player as far as I can tell. I think this is in fact his very first mafia game ever. I don't believe in the noob-rule to the extent that I used to so I am pressuring Khaos first, but I still think a claim from Famous should be beneficial in some way.

And why should being scared of someone necessitate their claims?

I don't want to have to worry about Khaos as either scummy town, or especially as mafia. Whatever gives me peace of mind, as a claim will, is beneficial for me, and I believe the town in general.
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SolonKR
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10/16/2015 12:36:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 12:32:26 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
Why?
The fact that you don't know concerns me; either I'm completely wrong about the theme, or you're scum and don't know, because I found the connection between myself and Lannan really, really obvious.

Can you do what I asked you to; saying the name of some leader or civilization that is associated with your character?
SO to Bailey, the love of my life <3
airmax1227
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10/16/2015 12:37:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 12:32:07 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 10/16/2015 12:30:38 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 10/16/2015 12:28:03 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 10/16/2015 12:25:39 AM, SolonKR wrote:
I think I already know the theme, though that soft claim is sufficiently vague. I'm pretty sure Lannan is town, unless
@Ford: Were the mafia given fake claims?

I did not give mafia fake claims

And that pretty much guarantees the utility of element claims this DP, so again, unless someone for some reason sees this differently than I do (and I'd like to hear why), after the first two claims I'm going to insist on a mass element claim.

Why give the mafia two claims to go off of? Why not just straight off the bat?

I'm not sure what you are asking... I'm asking for a full claim from Khaos... two others volunteered their soft claims, though I would have preferred they hadn't until I got the two claims I wanted (mostly Khaos, Famous is secondary and could be anyone that anyone else wants really). After Khaos and Famous (or whomever), I'd like element claims to lock everyone into something later. Perhaps I am wrong on the element claims though, but I haven't heard a good reason why yet.
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Zaradi
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10/16/2015 12:37:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 12:37:13 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 10/16/2015 12:32:07 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 10/16/2015 12:30:38 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 10/16/2015 12:28:03 AM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 10/16/2015 12:25:39 AM, SolonKR wrote:
I think I already know the theme, though that soft claim is sufficiently vague. I'm pretty sure Lannan is town, unless
@Ford: Were the mafia given fake claims?

I did not give mafia fake claims

And that pretty much guarantees the utility of element claims this DP, so again, unless someone for some reason sees this differently than I do (and I'd like to hear why), after the first two claims I'm going to insist on a mass element claim.

Why give the mafia two claims to go off of? Why not just straight off the bat?

I'm not sure what you are asking... I'm asking for a full claim from Khaos... two others volunteered their soft claims, though I would have preferred they hadn't until I got the two claims I wanted (mostly Khaos, Famous is secondary and could be anyone that anyone else wants really). After Khaos and Famous (or whomever), I'd like element claims to lock everyone into something later. Perhaps I am wrong on the element claims though, but I haven't heard a good reason why yet.

Sh*t, right. Mb, forgot that two people had already done it.
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airmax1227
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10/16/2015 12:41:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 12:36:18 AM, SolonKR wrote:
At 10/16/2015 12:32:26 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
Why?
The fact that you don't know concerns me; either I'm completely wrong about the theme, or you're scum and don't know, because I found the connection between myself and Lannan really, really obvious.

sorry, I don't see it. There are several elements this game can draw from, and yours and Lannan's weren't something I actually thought were in this game.

In my first post I, based on the knowledge I have from my character and role, I thought "elements" would be pretty straight forward (civs, techs, religions etc). Apparently there are more I hadn't thought of, "Actions" and such. But I think that makes my point greater, not lesser.

on the other hand, perhaps some "elements" (which are more specific) might make a character (and by extension a role) too obvious.

Can you do what I asked you to; saying the name of some leader or civilization that is associated with your character?

There is no civilization or leader associated with my character, so that should narrow it down a bit... especially as far as that narrows down my "element".
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Zaradi
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10/16/2015 12:44:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Right now I read Solon as slight town and read Airmax as slight scum. I want Khaos to talk before anything becomes more solid, though.
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airmax1227
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10/16/2015 12:46:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I read Solon and Lannan as slight town...

Zaradi as null since he hasn't posted anything yet really...

and all inactives are scum until they are otherwise
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airmax1227
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10/16/2015 12:52:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Claims list:

Lannan: "action of Siddartha" - Post #5 DP1
SolonKR: "an action that Sitting Bull did" - Post #11 DP1
Zaradi: Soft claim of power role - "doc should be on me this game." - Post #18 DP1
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airmax1227
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10/16/2015 12:54:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 12:37:13 AM, SolonKR wrote:
I'm off for a few hours.
Unvote VTL Airmax.

I think that's fine and fair... I'm happy to claim something once I get the claims I demanded first.

I don't see it as unreasonable that Khaos should full claim, as I believe having him full claim is pro town and I'm going to stick to that position.
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Zaradi
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10/16/2015 12:58:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
@Airmax: What happens when (I would say if, but cmon...) Khaos comes here and refuses to claim? Do you stay on him or what's your backup plan?
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airmax1227
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10/16/2015 1:06:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 12:58:19 AM, Zaradi wrote:
@Airmax: What happens when (I would say if, but cmon...) Khaos comes here and refuses to claim? Do you stay on him or what's your backup plan?

We lynch him. Pressure doesn't mean anything if it's not potentially leading to a lynch.

Before we do so though, we should go after a secondary claim (I said Famous, but it can be whomever anyone else thinks is best) and I will also claim if others think it's best that I do so.

I think Khaos will agree, at least to some extent, on my pressuring him being pro-town - and I hope others recognize the same thing. Whether he claims or not will ultimately decide how I approach the rest of the DP. Hopefully we wont have to lynch him, but we do have to lynch someone right?
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Zaradi
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10/16/2015 1:09:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
You're so scared of Khaos that if he doesn't do what you want him to do you'll kill him?
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airmax1227
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10/16/2015 1:09:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/16/2015 12:58:19 AM, Zaradi wrote:
@Airmax: What happens when (I would say if, but cmon...) Khaos comes here and refuses to claim? Do you stay on him or what's your backup plan?

Here's the bottom line: Khaos is a good player, he knows the game and knows what he is doing. If he's town and a role claim is detrimental to the town, he'll know what to do. If he's mafia, he'll know the same. Regardless though, locking him down to something, I believe is pro-town and will save us a headache later on.

Aside from you (zaradi) there's no one in this game I fear as mafia as much as Khaos, but there's also an element I'm concerned about if he's town in the form of me just sometimes being unable to trust him. I'd like to move on from that as quickly as possible and I believe my approach here is what will do that.
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