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Clash of clans DP4

TUF
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12/5/2015 4:11:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Dead players

Budda- ??? - ??? - ??? (Died np1)

ER- air sweeper -Miller - town (Died dp2)

Lucky- godson- politician- mafia (lynched dp2)

Wylted- You are the golem, a troop with the highest health bar in the game. You are used to "tank" damage while troops with lower health deal heavy damage to buildings and defenses. You are the bodyguard. Each night you may select a player to visit. If that player is targeted for a night kill, you will instead be that night"s death. You are a townie. (Killed np3)

Living players

1. Buttercat
2. ER ( replaced Ford)
3. valossa
4. Bullish (replaced solon)
5. khaos
6. sapphique
7. smithers
8. bsh1
9. logic
10. HPG

With 10 players remaining it takes 6 votes to make a lynch.


DP ends on Tuesday 12/8/15 @ 1000 cst (10:00 AM).
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
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12/5/2015 8:09:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Where is everyone? Is there some islamic holiday going on today? I posted the DP like 3 hours ago and its the afternoon lol.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
bsh1
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12/5/2015 9:00:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Since I am obviously going to have to claim this DP, I might as well just do it.

==========================

I am the Watcher. By re-playing something, you can watch it again, and watch how the base was attacked. This too was soft-claimed in the same manner as my previous soft-claim.

==========================

At 11/23/2015 11:23:03 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Not really...better than replaying the indecision of earlier in the DP. If mafia is watching, Khaos is right--they have little incentive to post until town can coordinate and begin to cohesively apply pressure. Town needs to push the inactive's buttons, and force them to get engaged.

[http://www.debate.org...]

At 11/28/2015 7:21:55 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Anyway, I am going to go watch a Game of Thrones episode with some of the people in my program. And just want to add, before TUF closes the DP, we need to have Butters' role confirmed, and I'd like to hear from Smithers as to why he reads as he does the people he has read, from Valo why he hammered, and from Logic, what his reads are and why.

[http://www.debate.org...]

==========================

My Actions:

NP1 - Watch Khaos
NP2 - Watch HPG
NP3 - Watch HPG

I was roleblocked NP1 and NP3. I didn't want to admit this because I didn't want to acknowledge having an active role. NP2 I saw Wylted visit HPG. So, I can confirm that Smithers is the roleblocker, but I still see no reason for him to withhold his results from NP2, and I also want to get HPG's results.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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bsh1
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12/5/2015 9:01:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
So, now that we geniuses in the town have outed town's other investigative role, perhaps we can test Khaos's claim.

VTL Smithers
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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12/5/2015 9:02:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I assume, further, that Wylted protected HPG again last night, and that is why HPG is still alive and Wylted isn't.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Khaos_Mage
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12/5/2015 9:41:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Well......aren't those convienent results...

Bsh1, from your POV, you know there is no doctor, thus I am the only protective role (plus Smithers' reverse doc). There is no reason to test my claim.

I will test it, if Smithers wants to, but I don't trust your motivations for it, nor am I sure my role worked at all. Scum would love to test this claim, especially, since there appears to be no other protective roles.

I'm down for either bsh1 or ER. They're both scum.
My work here is, finally, done.
bsh1
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12/5/2015 9:48:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/5/2015 9:41:59 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Bsh1, from your POV, you know there is no doctor, thus I am the only protective role (plus Smithers' reverse doc). There is no reason to test my claim.

Khaos, I would rather be safe than sorry.

I'm down for either bsh1 or ER. They're both scum.

*pulls hair out*
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Sapphique
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12/5/2015 9:51:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm here. Took an SAT subject test this morning and had practice in the afternoon. Reading through the last DP now.
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
Sapphique
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12/5/2015 9:51:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/5/2015 9:41:59 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

I'm down for either bsh1 or ER. They're both scum.

Why?
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
Khaos_Mage
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12/5/2015 9:54:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/5/2015 9:51:35 PM, Sapphique wrote:
At 12/5/2015 9:41:59 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:

I'm down for either bsh1 or ER. They're both scum.

Why?

Read last DP. You'll see.
I'm actually not likely going to be on today (11 hours of OT, and I've got chores to do). Nothing changed from last DP, except I know understand Wylted's move.
My work here is, finally, done.
bsh1
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12/5/2015 10:51:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Frankly, I don't see the case for me as scum to be compelling, and I am very suspicious of the people pushing my lynch.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Khaos_Mage
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12/6/2015 12:31:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/5/2015 10:51:30 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Frankly, I don't see the case for me as scum to be compelling, and I am very suspicious of the people pushing my lynch.

The biggest single behavioral reason is you would test the claim of someone you are suspicious of, by lynching a confirmed role (by you, which you refused to do) and on a player that is obviously town.
My work here is, finally, done.
bsh1
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12/6/2015 12:34:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 12:31:25 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/5/2015 10:51:30 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Frankly, I don't see the case for me as scum to be compelling, and I am very suspicious of the people pushing my lynch.

The biggest single behavioral reason is you would test the claim of someone you are suspicious of, by lynching a confirmed role (by you, which you refused to do) and on a player that is obviously town.

Khaos, I am highly suspicious of both you and Smithers. Smithers is only role-confirmed, NOT affiliation confirmed. I see no reason not to role-confirm you too; though, in your case that would be affiliation confirmation, since I do not believe mafia would ever have a Seraph Knight.

There is nothing to lose from testing the claim, I see that town gains additional certainty and clarity from the test, and you can still lynch me later in the DP if you want. It should be a win-win for you.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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12/6/2015 12:37:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/5/2015 9:51:35 PM, Sapphique wrote:

Please join me in confirming Khaos's role.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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12/6/2015 12:43:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
And seriously, people, can we have HPG's results?

Wylted's death strongly implies HPG was targeted last night. With Wylted dead, and if Khaos is the Seraph Knight, and if you people mislynch me, there will be no reason for mafia not to NK HPG tonight. He needs to out his results.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Khaos_Mage
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12/6/2015 12:44:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 12:34:15 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/6/2015 12:31:25 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/5/2015 10:51:30 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Frankly, I don't see the case for me as scum to be compelling, and I am very suspicious of the people pushing my lynch.

The biggest single behavioral reason is you would test the claim of someone you are suspicious of, by lynching a confirmed role (by you, which you refused to do) and on a player that is obviously town.

Khaos, I am highly suspicious of both you and Smithers. Smithers is only role-confirmed, NOT affiliation confirmed.
As I said before, which you haven't addressed. He exposed his scuminess in Lannan's game in this game. By doing so, it means he is town in this game. That, and his comment in TUF's replacement thread.
Smithers is my only 100% town read. Wylted was close, but that soft claim of his bothered me, but I see what he did. Butters, too, is town. I'm pretty sure V-bird is town. That leaves five players.
I'm null on Saph and Bullish and Logic.

I see no reason not to role-confirm you too; though, in your case that would be affiliation confirmation, since I do not believe mafia would ever have a Seraph Knight.
The risks associated with it. Only scum can be so confident, especially, since my role PM specifically states my role won't work on one player. And, based on assumed set-up, that player is likely Smithers.

There is nothing to lose from testing the claim, I see that town gains additional certainty and clarity from the test, and you can still lynch me later in the DP if you want. It should be a win-win for you.

It's not a win-win if I was redirected or my role didn't work, as a townie is lost.
My work here is, finally, done.
bsh1
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12/6/2015 12:49:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 12:44:21 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/6/2015 12:34:15 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/6/2015 12:31:25 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/5/2015 10:51:30 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Frankly, I don't see the case for me as scum to be compelling, and I am very suspicious of the people pushing my lynch.

The biggest single behavioral reason is you would test the claim of someone you are suspicious of, by lynching a confirmed role (by you, which you refused to do) and on a player that is obviously town.

Khaos, I am highly suspicious of both you and Smithers. Smithers is only role-confirmed, NOT affiliation confirmed.
As I said before, which you haven't addressed. He exposed his scuminess in Lannan's game in this game. By doing so, it means he is town in this game. That, and his comment in TUF's replacement thread.

This is a total non-sequitur. Why does his exposing himself in another game somehow town-confirm him in this game?

Smithers is my only 100% town read. Wylted was close, but that soft claim of his bothered me, but I see what he did. Butters, too, is town. I'm pretty sure V-bird is town. That leaves five players.
I'm null on Saph and Bullish and Logic.

I see no reason not to role-confirm you too; though, in your case that would be affiliation confirmation, since I do not believe mafia would ever have a Seraph Knight.
The risks associated with it. Only scum can be so confident, especially, since my role PM specifically states my role won't work on one player. And, based on assumed set-up, that player is likely Smithers.

There is nothing to lose from testing the claim, I see that town gains additional certainty and clarity from the test, and you can still lynch me later in the DP if you want. It should be a win-win for you.

It's not a win-win if I was redirected or my role didn't work, as a townie is lost.

This is so rich. You say that there was NO NK because you protected Smithers. You argued that Smithers was the obvious target. If you believe that, then why all the worry about redirection and stuff? To me, this just seems like you laying the groundwork to explain away a failed test of your role.

Did you get any sort of confirmation back from TUF when you targeted Smithers? If so, paraphrase it.

Plus, redirecting you seems like a longshot. It assumes that a redirector is in the game, and it assumes that he or she targeted you. And, just my bitterness speaking, maybe if Smithers hadn't roleblocked me NP1, I could've told you if anyone interfered with you.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Khaos_Mage
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12/6/2015 12:49:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
BTW, I'm banking on bsh1 being godfather.
He was goading to be RB'd last DP. He was told he was targeted NP1.
He is far too eager to hear results, even though, he admits that role confirmation is not affiliation confirmation (i.e. he will trust the results, and he was goading to be investigated).

Let's not forget, there was a janitor people!!! Budda may well have been the watcher.
My work here is, finally, done.
bsh1
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12/6/2015 12:56:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 12:49:44 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
BTW, I'm banking on bsh1 being godfather.

Based on what mountain of nonexistent evidence?

He was goading to be RB'd last DP. He was told he was targeted NP1.

If I were the godfather, and if I knew there was a chance that HPG would cop me, why would I risk losing my protection against being cop'd by drawing the roleblocker. This makes zero sense.

He is far too eager to hear results, even though, he admits that role confirmation is not affiliation confirmation (i.e. he will trust the results, and he was goading to be investigated).

At the time, I was thinking Smithers could be a JOAT with a roleblocking ability, which would give him a limited number of shots. I wanted a second result to disprove this theory. I still think he should out his results, because I don't see a reason to conceal the info from town. But, it's less urgent now, since the second roleblocking disconfirms my hypothesis.

As for the cop results, obviously I am eager to hear those, and so should you be.

Let's not forget, there was a janitor people!!! Budda may well have been the watcher.

OMG! Stop it, Khaos. Just stop it. I laid the groundwork for my character and role claims in DP1, BEFORE BUDDA HAD DIED. Dear lord...
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Khaos_Mage
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12/6/2015 12:58:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 12:49:41 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/6/2015 12:44:21 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/6/2015 12:34:15 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/6/2015 12:31:25 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/5/2015 10:51:30 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Frankly, I don't see the case for me as scum to be compelling, and I am very suspicious of the people pushing my lynch.

The biggest single behavioral reason is you would test the claim of someone you are suspicious of, by lynching a confirmed role (by you, which you refused to do) and on a player that is obviously town.

Khaos, I am highly suspicious of both you and Smithers. Smithers is only role-confirmed, NOT affiliation confirmed.
As I said before, which you haven't addressed. He exposed his scuminess in Lannan's game in this game. By doing so, it means he is town in this game. That, and his comment in TUF's replacement thread.

This is a total non-sequitur. Why does his exposing himself in another game somehow town-confirm him in this game?

In the way he did it, it does.
And, it's not a non-sequitur, just because you don't believe they are related.

Smithers is my only 100% town read. Wylted was close, but that soft claim of his bothered me, but I see what he did. Butters, too, is town. I'm pretty sure V-bird is town. That leaves five players.
I'm null on Saph and Bullish and Logic.

I see no reason not to role-confirm you too; though, in your case that would be affiliation confirmation, since I do not believe mafia would ever have a Seraph Knight.
The risks associated with it. Only scum can be so confident, especially, since my role PM specifically states my role won't work on one player. And, based on assumed set-up, that player is likely Smithers.

There is nothing to lose from testing the claim, I see that town gains additional certainty and clarity from the test, and you can still lynch me later in the DP if you want. It should be a win-win for you.

It's not a win-win if I was redirected or my role didn't work, as a townie is lost.

This is so rich. You say that there was NO NK because you protected Smithers. You argued that Smithers was the obvious target. If you believe that, then why all the worry about redirection and stuff? To me, this just seems like you laying the groundwork to explain away a failed test of your role.

I said I will test my claim if Smithers is on board.
I also said, last DP, that when I claimed, I had forgotten that Smithers claims to stop the NK. I don't know if that is true or not. Do you? Oh, more inside knowledge. Maybe that is how you knew you weren't blocked NP2. Was ER blocked, then?

Did you get any sort of confirmation back from TUF when you targeted Smithers? If so, paraphrase it.

I already said no.

Plus, redirecting you seems like a longshot. It assumes that a redirector is in the game, and it assumes that he or she targeted you. And, just my bitterness speaking, maybe if Smithers hadn't roleblocked me NP1, I could've told you if anyone interfered with you.

So, you are suggesting that my redirection is a long shot, even though you admit to targeting me? All the more reason it is likely, isn't it?
Yes, it assumes there is a role that affects targeting. Or a bus driver. But, you have yet to opine on what player my role is designed to not work on. I still say Smithers, maybe Wylted. And, I think only scum would take that chance.

Tell me, with essentially two cops (because Smithers is basically a conditional cop, and, if not a cop, then a roleblocker), a 1x vig (i.e. poisoner), and a watcher, what do you think the roles mafia have are? I think redirection is likely.
My work here is, finally, done.
bsh1
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12/6/2015 1:10:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 12:58:52 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/6/2015 12:49:41 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/6/2015 12:44:21 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/6/2015 12:34:15 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/6/2015 12:31:25 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/5/2015 10:51:30 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Frankly, I don't see the case for me as scum to be compelling, and I am very suspicious of the people pushing my lynch.

The biggest single behavioral reason is you would test the claim of someone you are suspicious of, by lynching a confirmed role (by you, which you refused to do) and on a player that is obviously town.

Khaos, I am highly suspicious of both you and Smithers. Smithers is only role-confirmed, NOT affiliation confirmed.
As I said before, which you haven't addressed. He exposed his scuminess in Lannan's game in this game. By doing so, it means he is town in this game. That, and his comment in TUF's replacement thread.

This is a total non-sequitur. Why does his exposing himself in another game somehow town-confirm him in this game?

In the way he did it, it does.
And, it's not a non-sequitur, just because you don't believe they are related.

Give me some context. Go over it. Explain the relation.

It's not a win-win if I was redirected or my role didn't work, as a townie is lost.

This is so rich. You say that there was NO NK because you protected Smithers. You argued that Smithers was the obvious target. If you believe that, then why all the worry about redirection and stuff? To me, this just seems like you laying the groundwork to explain away a failed test of your role.

I said I will test my claim if Smithers is on board.

And last DP, if my fuzzy memory is functioning, he indicated that he was. Of course, we can always wait for him to come on and say no, which he probably will given the way you two are tunneling me, but I see no reason not to confirm the claim...or at least the reasons not to are uncompelling.

I also said, last DP, that when I claimed, I had forgotten that Smithers claims to stop the NK.

I believe he backtracked on that claim.

Did you get any sort of confirmation back from TUF when you targeted Smithers? If so, paraphrase it.

I already said no.

I see. Well, I got messages back saying that I was roleblocked, so I am pretty confident that if your role had failed, you would've be alerted.

Plus, redirecting you seems like a longshot. It assumes that a redirector is in the game, and it assumes that he or she targeted you. And, just my bitterness speaking, maybe if Smithers hadn't roleblocked me NP1, I could've told you if anyone interfered with you.

So, you are suggesting that my redirection is a long shot, even though you admit to targeting me? All the more reason it is likely, isn't it?

Dear lord, Khaos. I don't know how to logically refute paranoia...and that is what you are: paranoid. I am putting myself even more on the line by doing this, because it will add to the case against me if something goes awry. But, it shouldn't go awry for reason's I've already addressed:

- Redirection is highly unlikely
- You would've been notified had your role failed/been blocked
- There was no NK, which you contend proves that your role worked

Given those points, what possible, logical reason is there not to just get the role confirmation out of the way. To me, all this delaying just seems like an effort by you to avoid having your role put to the test.

Tell me, with essentially two cops (because Smithers is basically a conditional cop, and, if not a cop, then a roleblocker), a 1x vig (i.e. poisoner), and a watcher, what do you think the roles mafia have are? I think redirection is likely.

This again assumes Smithers is town, which is something I am highly dubious of. The poisoner could just have easily (statistically, it was even more likely) to hit town than mafia. And, there are tons of roles that counter cops. Redirection is thus nowhere near as likely as you make it out to be. We also should consider the implications of your supposed role: if you target mafia, a mafioso is essentially impervious to town efforts to kill them unless town lynches one of their own. So, that adds to mafia's strength as well.

I am glad you dropped the idiotic "Budda was janitored" argument, since you were clearly wrong.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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Khaos_Mage
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12/6/2015 1:10:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 12:56:41 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/6/2015 12:49:44 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
BTW, I'm banking on bsh1 being godfather.

Based on what mountain of nonexistent evidence?
What I am laying out.

He was goading to be RB'd last DP. He was told he was targeted NP1.

If I were the godfather, and if I knew there was a chance that HPG would cop me, why would I risk losing my protection against being cop'd by drawing the roleblocker. This makes zero sense.
Only you RB a passive role to my knowledge.
Smithers, ask this, please.

He is far too eager to hear results, even though, he admits that role confirmation is not affiliation confirmation (i.e. he will trust the results, and he was goading to be investigated).

At the time, I was thinking Smithers could be a JOAT with a roleblocking ability, which would give him a limited number of shots. I wanted a second result to disprove this theory. I still think he should out his results, because I don't see a reason to conceal the info from town. But, it's less urgent now, since the second roleblocking disconfirms my hypothesis.

So, you admit I was right in that you were goading the RB. How is it town to RB the watcher?

As for the cop results, obviously I am eager to hear those, and so should you be.
To be honest, I don't really care. I'm not going to trust his results, since the cop made himself known, and thus, can be manipulated.

Let's not forget, there was a janitor people!!! Budda may well have been the watcher.

OMG! Stop it, Khaos. Just stop it. I laid the groundwork for my character and role claims in DP1, BEFORE BUDDA HAD DIED. Dear lord...

You soft claimed with words like "watch". I'm pretty sure I said "watch", too. It doesn't make it a soft claim, especially if it is organic. Did I mention my work? That must have been a soft claim for doctor, right?

Oh, and why couldn't the soft claim be in "Game of Thrones", like being governor because you are king. Or the politician, LIKE LUCKY WAS!!

Yes, I can very much see the godfather claiming a vote stealer, and thus, protecting the real stealer, in the event of a vig.

VTL bsh1
Well played, sir. I am impressed. I'd like to hear who's idea that was in the endgame. It sounds like something Lucky would suggest, but as far as I can tell, he was inactive.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
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12/6/2015 1:22:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 1:10:20 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/6/2015 12:58:52 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/6/2015 12:49:41 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/6/2015 12:44:21 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/6/2015 12:34:15 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/6/2015 12:31:25 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/5/2015 10:51:30 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Frankly, I don't see the case for me as scum to be compelling, and I am very suspicious of the people pushing my lynch.

The biggest single behavioral reason is you would test the claim of someone you are suspicious of, by lynching a confirmed role (by you, which you refused to do) and on a player that is obviously town.

Khaos, I am highly suspicious of both you and Smithers. Smithers is only role-confirmed, NOT affiliation confirmed.
As I said before, which you haven't addressed. He exposed his scuminess in Lannan's game in this game. By doing so, it means he is town in this game. That, and his comment in TUF's replacement thread.

This is a total non-sequitur. Why does his exposing himself in another game somehow town-confirm him in this game?

In the way he did it, it does.
And, it's not a non-sequitur, just because you don't believe they are related.

Give me some context. Go over it. Explain the relation.
I have. And, while this exercise was fun, I'm done. I'm convinced you are scum, and, as I said last DP, you were protecting ER.
That is the scum team. Heaven help us if there is another between V-bird, Saph, and Bullish.

It's not a win-win if I was redirected or my role didn't work, as a townie is lost.

This is so rich. You say that there was NO NK because you protected Smithers. You argued that Smithers was the obvious target. If you believe that, then why all the worry about redirection and stuff? To me, this just seems like you laying the groundwork to explain away a failed test of your role.

I said I will test my claim if Smithers is on board.

And last DP, if my fuzzy memory is functioning, he indicated that he was. Of course, we can always wait for him to come on and say no, which he probably will given the way you two are tunneling me, but I see no reason not to confirm the claim...or at least the reasons not to are uncompelling.

If you actually read the DP, you would have seen it was obvious Smithers didn't understand my role. Alas, another townie not paying attention. I mean, I've lost some steam of late, but I'm still catching things that others miss.

I also said, last DP, that when I claimed, I had forgotten that Smithers claims to stop the NK.

I believe he backtracked on that claim.

I thought he doubled down on it. I'm sure he will clarify, as it is quite important. But, is it necessarily pro-town to do so? I'm not sure. I know he's town from behavior alone.

Did you get any sort of confirmation back from TUF when you targeted Smithers? If so, paraphrase it.

I already said no.

I see. Well, I got messages back saying that I was roleblocked, so I am pretty confident that if your role had failed, you would've be alerted.

And, I was told that I would not be. Perhaps if I was roleblocked, I would be alerted, but doctors aren't alerted when a strongman NK's their target, are they?

Plus, redirecting you seems like a longshot. It assumes that a redirector is in the game, and it assumes that he or she targeted you. And, just my bitterness speaking, maybe if Smithers hadn't roleblocked me NP1, I could've told you if anyone interfered with you.

So, you are suggesting that my redirection is a long shot, even though you admit to targeting me? All the more reason it is likely, isn't it?

Dear lord, Khaos. I don't know how to logically refute paranoia...and that is what you are: paranoid. I am putting myself even more on the line by doing this, because it will add to the case against me if something goes awry. But, it shouldn't go awry for reason's I've already addressed:
And scum would love to test this theory, especially if they know it is false.
Further, if my role failed and Smithers is lynched, why is that putting you on the line more than my @ss is on the line?

- Redirection is highly unlikely
Why? Because you know the balancing mechanics of scum?
- You would've been notified had your role failed/been blocked
Failure =/= role blocked.
And, as I said yesterday, I am not told it does not work if it fails.
- There was no NK, which you contend proves that your role worked
Unless Smithers blocked his target, which was ER. Why else was he so gung-ho about lynching ER?

Given those points, what possible, logical reason is there not to just get the role confirmation out of the way. To me, all this delaying just seems like an effort by you to avoid having your role put to the test.
What logical reason would I, as scum, have to NOT test the role, knowing full well it won't work? What, you think, if I were scum, I'd think we could test it at LYLO? Why, logically as scum, would I pick a player who alleges he can stop the NK, and by doing so, KNOW WHO SCUM IS!!!


Tell me, with essentially two cops (because Smithers is basically a conditional cop, and, if not a cop, then a roleblocker), a 1x vig (i.e. poisoner), and a watcher, what do you think the roles mafia have are? I think redirection is likely.

This again assumes Smithers is town, which is something I am highly dubious of. The poisoner could just have easily (statistically, it was even more likely) to hit town than mafia. And, there are tons of roles that counter cops. Redirection is thus nowhere near as likely as you make it out to be. We also should consider the implications of your supposed role: if you target mafia, a mafioso is essentially impervious to town efforts to kill them unless town lynches one of their own. So, that adds to mafia's strength as well.

Smithers is town. Of that, I have no doubt.

I am glad you dropped the idiotic "Budda was janitored" argument, since you were clearly wrong.

I dropped nothing, as I was addressing your POV.
My work here is, finally, done.
bsh1
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12/6/2015 1:26:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 1:10:49 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/6/2015 12:56:41 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/6/2015 12:49:44 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
He was goading to be RB'd last DP. He was told he was targeted NP1.

If I were the godfather, and if I knew there was a chance that HPG would cop me, why would I risk losing my protection against being cop'd by drawing the roleblocker. This makes zero sense.
Only you RB a passive role to my knowledge.
Smithers, ask this, please.

I would want to see TUF's answer in the DP if he is willing (for the record, TUF, I dislike strongly your policy of not answering DP questions), because I don't trust Smithers. But, why would a roleblocker not work on passive roles?

He is far too eager to hear results, even though, he admits that role confirmation is not affiliation confirmation (i.e. he will trust the results, and he was goading to be investigated).

At the time, I was thinking Smithers could be a JOAT with a roleblocking ability, which would give him a limited number of shots. I wanted a second result to disprove this theory. I still think he should out his results, because I don't see a reason to conceal the info from town. But, it's less urgent now, since the second roleblocking disconfirms my hypothesis.

So, you admit I was right in that you were goading the RB. How is it town to RB the watcher?

Khaos, where on earth did your brain contort my words to reach this conclusion? I wanted to know Smither's second target so that they could confirm if they were blocked or not. If they were, that would've meant my theory was wrong. I didn't want to be roleblocked myself.

Let's not forget, there was a janitor people!!! Budda may well have been the watcher.

OMG! Stop it, Khaos. Just stop it. I laid the groundwork for my character and role claims in DP1, BEFORE BUDDA HAD DIED. Dear lord...

You soft claimed with words like "watch". I'm pretty sure I said "watch", too. It doesn't make it a soft claim, especially if it is organic. Did I mention my work? That must have been a soft claim for doctor, right?

Khaos, my mentioning Game of Thrones like I did was totally unnecessary, irrelevant, and not organic.

Plus, the other place I soft-claimed my role, was in a post where I was also soft-claiming replay button. I included them all together deliberately.

At the very least, my very first post in the DP, which EVERYONE agreed sounded unnatural, was a soft-claim for my role. I repeated the word "replay," which isn't exactly a common word in mafia games, multiple times to breadcrumb even more. I was the first one to claim a role, therefore. Given that mafia likely didn't get fake claims, this should tell you how dumb your scumread on my truly is.

Oh, and why couldn't the soft claim be in "Game of Thrones", like being governor because you are king. Or the politician, LIKE LUCKY WAS!!

Obviously I am going to soft claim my scummates role, because that is a brilliant move. Moreover, I didn't even know politician was a word for vote thief before this game.

Yes, I can very much see the godfather claiming a vote stealer, and thus, protecting the real stealer, in the event of a vig.

Even more genius!

So, HPG cops Lucky guilty, and I think to myself, "well, Lucky is about to get lynched, so let me soft-claim politician!" BRILLIANT!

Sarcasm aside, Khaos, Lucky was already known scum by that point. How would me soft-claiming politician have protected Lucky?

VTL bsh1
Well played, sir. I am impressed. I'd like to hear who's idea that was in the endgame. It sounds like something Lucky would suggest, but as far as I can tell, he was inactive.

Your reasoning is idiotic, and only confirms for me the need to test your role. You are trying very hard to divert attention from your own role confirmation, esp. when there is a lot of time left in the DP, and to push town into mislynching me.
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Khaos_Mage
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12/6/2015 1:36:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 1:26:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:

I'm Doc Brown, because I'm a mad scientist.
hahHAHHAhahahahahHAHHAHAhahahahahahah
My work here is, finally, done.
bsh1
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12/6/2015 1:38:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 1:22:32 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/6/2015 1:10:20 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/6/2015 12:58:52 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
In the way he did it, it does.
And, it's not a non-sequitur, just because you don't believe they are related.

Give me some context. Go over it. Explain the relation.
I have. And, while this exercise was fun, I'm done. I'm convinced you are scum, and, as I said last DP, you were protecting ER.

Was I protecting ER or Lucky? I think I've only heard the conspiracy theory about the latter.

And please, provide me the context or link me to where you gave it.

And last DP, if my fuzzy memory is functioning, he indicated that he was. Of course, we can always wait for him to come on and say no, which he probably will given the way you two are tunneling me, but I see no reason not to confirm the claim...or at least the reasons not to are uncompelling.

If you actually read the DP, you would have seen it was obvious Smithers didn't understand my role. Alas, another townie not paying attention. I mean, I've lost some steam of late, but I'm still catching things that others miss.

I'll look at it again, but my initial impression was different.

I see. Well, I got messages back saying that I was roleblocked, so I am pretty confident that if your role had failed, you would've be alerted.

And, I was told that I would not be. Perhaps if I was roleblocked, I would be alerted, but doctors aren't alerted when a strongman NK's their target, are they?

There is a difference between having a role overridden, and a role fail. In this example, the doctor's role did not fail, it just didn't matter. I don't see why your role should fail if you were not roleblocked.

And scum would love to test this theory, especially if they know it is false.
Further, if my role failed and Smithers is lynched, why is that putting you on the line more than my @ss is on the line?

Because you will blame me (invariably) and I am more heavily scumread. But really, your role should not fail if you are telling the truth. The idea that it would fail if your telling the truth is absurdly unlikely.

- Redirection is highly unlikely
Why? Because you know the balancing mechanics of scum?\

Khaos, stop building arguments into your questions. It's annoying. I am not scum, but you can see my assessment of the likely balancing of the game below.

- You would've been notified had your role failed/been blocked
Failure =/= role blocked.

How else might it fail? Redirection? If so, that is unlikely, for reasons already addressed.

- There was no NK, which you contend proves that your role worked
Unless Smithers blocked his target, which was ER. Why else was he so gung-ho about lynching ER?

I do not think that roleblocking prevents the NK. The NK is not a role; it is an extra ability bequeathed to the mafia.

Why, logically as scum, would I pick a player who alleges he can stop the NK, and by doing so, KNOW WHO SCUM IS!!!

I am going to go back and look this up, because I don't think he sticks to this claim.
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bsh1
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12/6/2015 1:40:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
When I said, "see below," this is what I meant:

This again assumes Smithers is town, which is something I am highly dubious of. The poisoner could just have easily (statistically, it was even more likely) to hit town than mafia. And, there are tons of roles that counter cops. Redirection is thus nowhere near as likely as you make it out to be. We also should consider the implications of your supposed role: if you target mafia, a mafioso is essentially impervious to town efforts to kill them unless town lynches one of their own. So, that adds to mafia's strength as well.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Khaos_Mage
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12/6/2015 1:45:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you can't tell tell Smithers targeted ER NP2, you aren't focused on the game...

Mafia should have killed me. LOL, if Wylted protected me and got killed.

Here' I'll break it down all 4th dimensional-like:
DP1, you softed a claim that could protect Lucky.
DP2, that plan had to be scrapped, because Lucky was not going to be not lynched.
DP3, you protected ER.
DP4, you used that soft claim to justify something else with knowledge that is likely known to the mafia.

Saavy?

And, obviously "game of thrones" was unnecessary and inorganic, which is why that was more likely to be the soft claim.
My work here is, finally, done.
bsh1
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12/6/2015 1:52:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 1:45:40 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
If you can't tell tell Smithers targeted ER NP2, you aren't focused on the game...

I have to log off soon (it's nearly 3:00am). Could you please take the time to find the link to the roleblocking discussion, and I'll respond in the morning.

Mafia should have killed me. LOL, if Wylted protected me and got killed.

Here' I'll break it down all 4th dimensional-like:
DP1, you softed a claim that could protect Lucky.
DP2, that plan had to be scrapped, because Lucky was not going to be not lynched.

Khaos, you are alleging that the "Game of Thrones" claim was a soft-claim for politician. You also allege that the GOT claim was in DP1. This is factually wrong. Check the link below. I made the GOT claim DP2, AFTER Lucky was clearly scum. I already explained all this.

[http://www.debate.org...]

DP3, you protected ER.

Um...how?

And, obviously "game of thrones" was unnecessary and inorganic, which is why that was more likely to be the soft claim.

I am glad you agree that the post was inorganic. It gives us a starting point. But, the WHOLE PHRASE was inorganic. I needed to watch something, and GOT was what came to mind.
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bsh1
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12/6/2015 1:56:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Khaos, your case against me requires a lot of inane logical leaps, lies, and blatant falsities.

It is false that I could've stolen from Budda's soft-claim.
It is false that I mentioned Game of Thrones DP1.
I am pretty sure it is false that Smithers stuck to the claim that NKs are roleblocked, but I will have to find that conversation again to verify.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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