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Clash of Clans endgame

TUF
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12/20/2015 7:39:38 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Thanks everyone for playing my game!

1st Place: Town
2nd Place: Mafia


Endgame thoughts:

Was this game balanced properly? To put it simply, I don"t know. I usually like to make my games vanilla heavy with not very many power roles. That"s what I"ve done my last few games from themeless, Bartimaues, and Game of Thrones. However, in each of those three games vanilla roles were very inactive. It seemed people weren"t as interested in playing when they felt their role was important. While I don"t agree that your role should be indicative of the fun you have in a game, I also wanted to find a way to make roles "seem" like they were something cool, when really they didn"t effect the balance too much.

Here were some of my thoughts:

Bodyguard: Basically a vanilla. No matter what the mafia get a kill even if the bodyguard takes the hit. The loss to the mafia is nothing (more of minor annoyance), and it makes the town player feel as if they are an important protective role.
Popular Townie: Pretty much a vanilla as well. It has little net benefit in the game given the mafia had a politician, and again gives the town player the illusion their role is semi-important. I am actually completely surprised that everyone just assumed the popular claim meant he was town. Especially since generally when I use this role in my game, it is mafia aligned. I have had two past games where I have made this role scum. I guess many of these players hadn"t researched my old games. Anyway, it worked in town"s favor because in this game I actually did switch it to a town role after some debate on which team to give it to.

Roleblocker: The roleblocker was my version of giving the town a doctor, and it obviously worked that way for smithers once when he did block the night kill. The difference is that it is a negative utility role, and is generally assumed to be scum aligned. I was shocked again that nobody seemed to really emphasize doubt on smithers role claim. This was meant to almost make him like a powerful miller.
Here is where balance may have tipped a little heavy on the town side, but I will explain my intentions:

The watcher with the cop makes up for a lot of investigation. Keep in mind the cop is only 2x and had a chance to guilty a miller, and innocent a godfather (the latter did happen in the game, yet did not benefit khaos in the end).
The watcher was the only real powerful investigation role I gave the town. I felt town needed something a little more to balance a janitor, a mafia scout, and a politician than a fallible 2x cop.

Because I gave this role to bsh1, and bsh1 made very intelligent decisions with his night actions, it ended up being a little more powerful than I expected. Logic was put into a tough spot later on in the game when he had to decide the bigger threat: the roleblocker, or the watcher. With a limiting player pool, and both roles still alive, it was a hard choice. The roleblocker had screwed them from a night kill already, and the watcher had already led to a lynch. Either way, both roles still alive were a big threat.

He chose smithers (which was unfortunate for them, because smithers roleblock would have been useless), which led bsh1 to score another investigation when he watched smithers. Talk about being unlucky as mafia! Bsh1 had predicted the mafia"s motives to some extent 2 nights in a row.

So in the end, the game may have been tipped in the favor of the town because of the every night watcher. The cop was fallible, the watcher, not so much. Mafia didn"t have any role to protect against a watcher, or to skew results. Perhaps if I had given them a bus-driver? However, the fact that bsh1 had been ousted as a watcher from pretty early on in the game, yet survived so long regardless because he was always a viable mis-lynch target was a huge factor in his longevity.
So yeah, I would prefer a vanilla heavy game any day of the week, but from my last few experiences with it, it seemed players would lose interest in their roles often when I balanced games like this.

Alternatively, the every night mafia politician could have been a huge mis-balance supporting the scum side. Mafia could have had better luck with this game very early had lucky_luciano been online and active. The game wouldn"t have/couldn"t have ended with butters being alive anyway, even though the mafia were convinced that if lucky was online to hammer bsh1 they would have won. I obviously couldn"t tell logic and khaos that this wasn"t the case, because they didn"t know there was a popular townie yet.

Mafia was pretty angry with me actually about the fact that I would not let them use lucky"s vote in his absence. I didn"t allow them to do this because I figured it would have been a major point of contention for the town. I have never heard nor seen of a mod allowing a mafia team to do this however, and didn"t see the benefit of allowing mafia to do it. While they were mad at me at the time, it actually worked in their benefit. Imagine if they had tried to quick hammer bsh1, claiming an early victory then later finding out that there would be an extra day phase because of the existence of a popular townie? Their whole team would have been screwed much earlier on.

Another thing I heard a lot of talk about was whether a mafia night kill should be able to be roleblocked or not. For this game specifically it was meant to, because the roleblock was supposed to work as a doctor role for town. However I heard many players talking about how they don"t think it should be allowed. I didn"t hear a lot of good reasons for this, and it seems that people just think it is SOP. Even if it is SOP, it doesn"t make a lot of sense. Why should a doctor be able to stop a night kill, but not a roleblock? I have seen mods do it both ways before, but probably more often than not the night kill is an actual action that has to be used by a specific player. Without this mechanic in place, it would defeat the utility of tracker or watcher roles. Anyways, multiple players seemed to dis-agree with the roleblocker being able to block the night kill and there was quite a bit of talk about it. I dis-agree, but would love to discuss my thoughts on it further with anyone who takes issue with this. Keep in mind I don"t play mafia much anymore these days, so I am out of the loop of current modding SOP"s if they have changed.

The mafia were not happy about the town"s victory being largely due in part to roles. I agree with their complaints. That is not what mafia is about. It should be about investigating behaviors, and lynching suspicious individuals. It"s impossible to say how this game might have gone if everyone were vaniilas. Many suspicions and reads stemmed from people"s role claims, theme theory, etc. However, I do think the mafia had a really good chance of fooling town in this game, and were just utterly devasted by night actions. Between a guilty investigation, a confirmed roleblock on smithers, and 2 watcher results, every single mafia in this game was a ultimately lynched because of a town night result. I do not like this idea very much, and think it is rather unfortunate. Town made a lot of mistakes in this game (v-bird killing a townie for virtually nothing, smithers roleblocking the town watcher twice), but it happened. I think I am going to resort back to heavy vanilla games in the future to avoid these type of things. This isn"t to say the town did bad, but the mafia (khaos and logic especially) did a fantastic job of manipulating in this game. I don"t think either of them would have been lynched based on their behavior alone.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
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12/20/2015 7:40:27 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Day phase wise, I think the mafia won this game and played their cards right. Night actions wise, obviously there failures that they couldn"t have possibly predicted would happen. They got shafted in every single way in the night phases, and it honestly made me feel bad that I couldn"t really do a whole lot to rectify their situation without being unduly unfair to the town. However the roleblock on Ford wasn"t such a horrible thing for the mafia. They were going to kill sapphique that night who was actually a beloved Princess. If they had kill saph, they would have skipped a night phase anyway. Which still might have been better for them though then Smithers figuring out he blocked scum.
I hope people don"t take this to mean the town did horrible. There were several spots in the game where people had good thought trains. Bsh1"s lynch analysis on his wagon was actually really great, and it was accurate. It contained every single mafia member inside of it. Obviously it wasn"t solid enough to heavily push, but it was something. I felt like smithers was right there on the edge of figuring the theme out. He kept getting close, but was never spot on.
There was in fact a theme to the town roles in this game, and I did my best to make it kind of out there so that it wouldn"t be so easy to guess. Obviously the mafia were all youtubers, people who played clash and recorded videos of it.
Town roles were methodically made so that their was 2 types of one in game thing however. Here was the categories for town roles:

2 buildings: Air sweeper, Town hall.
2 Spells: Poison, freeze
2 troops: Goblin, Golem
2 Game functions: Replay button, x-mod
2 strategies: GoWiPe, Queen walk

Nobody really figured this theme all the way out however like I had intended, which is good. If there is going to be a set up to role theme, it shouldn"t be very easy to figure out by the town, as that can be game breaking.
So with me having admitted to un-intentional balancing flaws, what was everyone"s overall general opinion of the theme, set up, their roles, and the interaction with other players and some general feedback for improvement in future games?
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
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12/20/2015 7:43:01 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Remaining roles:

ER (Ford)- You are Chief Pat, from Clashtronauts. Your great YouTube Commentary skills quickly caught Supercells eye, and you were made the official announcer for major war events with your co-host Galadon. You are not a SuperCell employee, but are privy to some information about the upcoming updates that you must hide from your fans. Thus, you are the 1x Janitor. Once during any night phase, you may hide the body of a town player you want. Their full role will be revealed in the mafia PM. If your target is protected, you will retain this ability. You win with the scum most commonly referred to as "Mafia".

Smithers (Volassabirdy)- You are the poison spell. You are a spell that deals damage slowly at first, and then more quickly as time inside the spell progresses. You are the 1x delayed vigilante. You may select a player to die in the day phase. That player will survive the remainder of that day phase, and the night phase but will die during the next day phase. You are a town sided player.

Used ability NP1 on endark.

HPG- You are X-Mod, a hack app for Clash of Clans that is heavily hated among the Fair Play war community. During wars, a player that uses you can see trap locations that are normally hidden, and can practice attacks before committing to the real thing. You are the 2x cop. You can investigate a player to see their true nature, just as you can see the true nature of a player"s war base. You are not flavored, and with the townies.

Sapphique- You are the Town Hall, one of the most important parts of a village. By taking you down, a player will automatically win a star. Excluding farmers, most players will protect you the heaviest. You are the beloved princess. If you are lynched, the town will lose a day phase. If you are night killed, the mafia lose a night phase. You win with the players known as the town.

Solon (bullish)- You are the goblin, used mostly for farming gold. As probably one of the least effective war/ trophy troops, you are the vanilla. You can assist the town with your voice and your vote! You win with the other townies.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
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12/20/2015 7:43:46 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
I have like 5 night action lists spread through different computers. I am not going to compile them all together, but if you want to know who did what on what night just ask.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
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12/20/2015 7:45:00 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Janitored role:

buddamoose- You are the Queen walk, an attack strategy using the Archer Queen and 3-4 healers to take out a section of a base to eliminate double bomb spots for Hog Riders, or Air Defenses for Balloons. You are an attack strategy that requires high level heroes in order to be effective, as the queen only lives until the healers go down. You are thus the seraph knight. On NP1 you must select a player to protect throughout the entire game. As long as you are alive, that player is immune to night kills. There is one player in this game your ability will not work on, and if you select that player you will told your action was ineffective, and will retain your ability for the next NP. You are a player who win with the town.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
headphonegut
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12/20/2015 7:52:38 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
I thought it was fairly balanced though.

The only thing I disagree with is faction kill and roleblocker. Should have just given town a doctor and mafia the ability to kill anyone without having to send someone to perform the action.
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?
bsh1
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12/20/2015 8:11:37 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Yay :) Another town win!
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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Smithereens
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12/20/2015 9:06:18 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
GG. Imo I don't understand why Bsh1 goated my role block. The utility of my role was preventing the NK, and BSh1 was effectively the highest order power role for town in this game. A random hit on my scum list, which at the time contained the entire scum team plus Bsh1 would have been far more beneficial than a block against Bsh1.
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bsh1
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12/20/2015 9:43:06 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 9:06:18 PM, Smithereens wrote:
GG. Imo I don't understand why Bsh1 goated my role block.

I didn't. I was actually really annoyed that you roleblocked me.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Smithereens
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12/20/2015 9:45:08 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 9:43:06 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/20/2015 9:06:18 PM, Smithereens wrote:
GG. Imo I don't understand why Bsh1 goated my role block.

I didn't. I was actually really annoyed that you roleblocked me.

Tisk, I won't blame myself for that one because I gave a very reasonable ultimatum. You were the only one from my scum list who resisted to give the info I wanted to refine my targets, so you effectively made the best target for me.
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bsh1
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12/20/2015 9:47:15 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 9:45:08 PM, Smithereens wrote:
At 12/20/2015 9:43:06 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/20/2015 9:06:18 PM, Smithereens wrote:
GG. Imo I don't understand why Bsh1 goated my role block.

I didn't. I was actually really annoyed that you roleblocked me.

Tisk, I won't blame myself for that one because I gave a very reasonable ultimatum. You were the only one from my scum list who resisted to give the info I wanted to refine my targets, so you effectively made the best target for me.

I just think you read me very badly.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Smithereens
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12/20/2015 9:50:17 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 9:47:15 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/20/2015 9:45:08 PM, Smithereens wrote:
At 12/20/2015 9:43:06 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/20/2015 9:06:18 PM, Smithereens wrote:
GG. Imo I don't understand why Bsh1 goated my role block.

I didn't. I was actually really annoyed that you roleblocked me.

Tisk, I won't blame myself for that one because I gave a very reasonable ultimatum. You were the only one from my scum list who resisted to give the info I wanted to refine my targets, so you effectively made the best target for me.

I just think you read me very badly.

Yes. I agree. If you knew this though why didn't you assist my attempts to refine my target? The mafia did that, and it turned out advantageous to them.
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bsh1
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12/20/2015 9:51:29 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 9:50:17 PM, Smithereens wrote:
At 12/20/2015 9:47:15 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I just think you read me very badly.

Yes. I agree. If you knew this though why didn't you assist my attempts to refine my target? The mafia did that, and it turned out advantageous to them.

Because I didn't see the utility of outing more information about my role at that time, and it wasn't really reasonable for you to insist that I do so. Asking for you results was completely reasonable, from my POV.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Smithereens
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12/20/2015 9:53:50 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 9:51:29 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/20/2015 9:50:17 PM, Smithereens wrote:
At 12/20/2015 9:47:15 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I just think you read me very badly.

Yes. I agree. If you knew this though why didn't you assist my attempts to refine my target? The mafia did that, and it turned out advantageous to them.

Because I didn't see the utility of outing more information about my role at that time, and it wasn't really reasonable for you to insist that I do so. Asking for you results was completely reasonable, from my POV.

I do believe I tried to trade off this info. But in hindset, your play makes sense. You probably were the strongest town player this game imo, due to the clever insight of your targetting.
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bsh1
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12/20/2015 9:54:51 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 9:53:50 PM, Smithereens wrote:
At 12/20/2015 9:51:29 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/20/2015 9:50:17 PM, Smithereens wrote:
At 12/20/2015 9:47:15 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I just think you read me very badly.

Yes. I agree. If you knew this though why didn't you assist my attempts to refine my target? The mafia did that, and it turned out advantageous to them.

Because I didn't see the utility of outing more information about my role at that time, and it wasn't really reasonable for you to insist that I do so. Asking for you results was completely reasonable, from my POV.

I do believe I tried to trade off this info. But in hindset, your play makes sense. You probably were the strongest town player this game imo, due to the clever insight of your targetting.

Thanks.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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: http://www.debate.org...

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Khaos_Mage
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12/20/2015 10:21:49 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
As I said before, TUF, the issue wasn't that it was unbalanced, per se, but mafia's ONLY chance lied with Lucky's role. Without it, we had no control over anything.

Further, with modconfirmation roles like popular, vig, and watcher, those were not likely to be lynched. Mafia needed a roleblocker or redirector or something. Need evidence? You don't have to go much further than Bullish's comments when he replaced in, and by just stating what has been claimed, he narrowed down scum to four players, by nothing more than roles.

Smithers role was OP. You might think of him as negative utility, but I don't. You may think he was a doctor, which is true, but he was much more than that. He was a cop.

Think of when one mafia remains, which would have been evident once three flipped. Mafia's only defense is to waive the NK. If they do not, then some other player who was targeted is automatically mod-confirmed town. And, mafia had zero defense for this doctor/cop role.

But, all in all, at game start, both teams did have a chance. I cannot deny that.

On a personal note, this game was horribly unfun, and mafia lost due to roles. Two watcher results, a cop, and an RB. Not only that, both town and mafia were inactive.....again, and mafia lost so badly by being inactive. There could have been three mislynches if mafia was only active. Hell, we could have mislynched Budda DP1, then, possibly, mislynched bsh1 DP2 using Lucky's role. Town would have been at LYLO if not already lost. But, alas, half of our team was inactive.

The only enjoyment I had was goating the cop investigation, and gaining Smithers' trust. Ah, if only we NK'd bsh1 NP3, we might have stood a chance.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
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12/20/2015 10:25:19 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 9:45:08 PM, Smithereens wrote:
At 12/20/2015 9:43:06 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/20/2015 9:06:18 PM, Smithereens wrote:
GG. Imo I don't understand why Bsh1 goated my role block.

I didn't. I was actually really annoyed that you roleblocked me.

Tisk, I won't blame myself for that one because I gave a very reasonable ultimatum. You were the only one from my scum list who resisted to give the info I wanted to refine my targets, so you effectively made the best target for me.

It's a shame I couldn't have been listened to when I exploited that. As mafia, that is exactly what I would have done. I even called it that you blocked bsh1 NP3 when we NK'd Wylted. And, we knew you'd block ER, so that's why I did the NK, hoping I wasn't seen. We should have NK'd bsh1 and not taken the chance, but, with town's proven inability to lynch, we didn't want a good player replacing in for V-bird. LOL
My work here is, finally, done.
Logic_on_rails
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12/21/2015 1:24:22 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
This was a very interesting, yet frustrating game to play in.

For my first game of Mafia in 2 years or so, I quite enjoyed myself. For all the complaints about balance, moderating etc. I think TUF did a fine job. TUF, thankyou for running the game, and many thanks to those who were active.

In terms of the gameplay, I had a fair bit of fun in the DPs, and thought I played decently for my first game in many years. Its funny though, just how lopsided this outcome was. DP 2, half the scum team was offline. Ford + Lucky + Lucky's poilitician role meant we were missing 3 votes. That super scummy vote of mine on Bsh should have been grounds for a lynch, but it wasn't to be. Long story short, the Mafia and TUF had a miscommunication of sorts... I will note here that a popular townie doesn't mean Mafia wouldn't have won if we had got Bsh's lynch through, but alas.

That we kept ER alive till DP 7 was a small miracle. And that DP 3 near lynch on Bullish... the entire Mafia actually thought we had got the lynch! We miscounted votes. We got close to a Sapp lynch the next DP. Now, if we had had plurality lynching at any point, I think the Mafia had the game won, but alas. Bsh played excellently. The thought of using Khaos to kill was that he wouldn't be roleblocked (I was somewhat suspected). How badly that backfired... and then Bsh caught me the next DP.

Probably the key moment of this game was the decision to kill Butters. I had suggested a kill on Bsh - he was watcher - and Khaos felt he was a mislynch target. I was going to just ignore Khaos, which he was okay with as he said he hadn't been paying attention to the game much, when I decided to check with ER about the NK. ER backed Khaos, and we killed Butters. A most regrettable decision condoned by me.

Which I suppose is the core frustration we felt as the Mafia - that we actually outplayed the town, yet got so totally destroyed. Lucky was guilty, Khaos and myself caught by investigators (including an innocent cop result) and ER suspected for nearly nothing besides the NP 2 non-kill. Thats not to say town didn't have some decent analysis - HPG was often perceptive, Bsh was fairly good, Smithers oscilliated between stupidity and insight (we were annoyed that he replaced Valosa, when Valosa had advocated for Bsh's lynch)... but given the sheer madness of the town at times, we expected a different result. The very fact that I lasted 120 posts DP 6 and people considered not lynching me speaks volumes to that. I also ought to note that the sheer weirdness of some situations - Butters nearly claiming cop, Smithers getting my name wrong DP 2 - was just strange.

There's probably more, but I'll leave it there, and say that I think I played well, but congratulations to the town on their victory. Many thanks to TUF.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
Logic_on_rails
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12/21/2015 1:26:28 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
One other thing - we as Mafia were semi-convinced that Wyled was doctor right up to his death. We thought he had hinted at being a 'power role' and were thinking with HPG as an every night cop that we would never kill him. Didn't turn out that way obviously, but it helps explain some of our actions DP 3 and 4.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
Smithereens
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12/21/2015 1:35:23 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
It was just the early game where my play had gone down the drain. Endark was not caught by the Np2 block, as we knew Ford was scum. Mafia took the calculated risk of sending Khaos on a visiting job with a watcher alive in order to beat the role-blocker. Fair enough let me say, however Logic was probably a better option. There would have been a high chance of Logic's lynch given he was seen visiting the NK target, however there was no hope for Khaos.
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Logic_on_rails
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12/21/2015 1:39:47 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 7:40:27 PM, TUF wrote:
]
So with me having admitted to un-intentional balancing flaws, what was everyone"s overall general opinion of the theme, set up, their roles, and the interaction with other players and some general feedback for improvement in future games?

Theme? I like custom theme games, and disliked CoC because I knew nothing of it, but it worked well because there were plenty of fake claims and no real chance for a CC, so fine.

Interaction wise the biggest problem was inactivity. As town, its frustrating. As Mafia, not being able to use half your votes screws you over badly. But I know you tried hard to get active players.

I think politicians as a rule are too swing sided. Probably don't include them often for future games. Also, I know its a very high standard to hold to, but be very clear when answering any question. I'm thinking of that miscommunication we had DP 2, nothing else, but I think if the town were legends my vote alone DP 2 should have been grounds for my lynch. But overall... you did quite fine.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
EndarkenedRationalist
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12/21/2015 3:20:38 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 1:35:23 AM, Smithereens wrote:
It was just the early game where my play had gone down the drain. Endark was not caught by the Np2 block, as we knew Ford was scum. Mafia took the calculated risk of sending Khaos on a visiting job with a watcher alive in order to beat the role-blocker. Fair enough let me say, however Logic was probably a better option. There would have been a high chance of Logic's lynch given he was seen visiting the NK target, however there was no hope for Khaos.

Every game, from now until forever, I will immediately town-read you for meta.
Smithereens
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12/21/2015 3:23:18 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 3:20:38 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 12/21/2015 1:35:23 AM, Smithereens wrote:
It was just the early game where my play had gone down the drain. Endark was not caught by the Np2 block, as we knew Ford was scum. Mafia took the calculated risk of sending Khaos on a visiting job with a watcher alive in order to beat the role-blocker. Fair enough let me say, however Logic was probably a better option. There would have been a high chance of Logic's lynch given he was seen visiting the NK target, however there was no hope for Khaos.

Every game, from now until forever, I will immediately town-read you for meta.

In context mon ami. I was playing on mafia scum and it happened there first. Next minute I come here and it happens again. Drawing a town read on blatantly false information or info that you couldn't possibly have is highest order scum tell.
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EndarkenedRationalist
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12/21/2015 3:25:40 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 3:23:18 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 12/21/2015 3:20:38 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 12/21/2015 1:35:23 AM, Smithereens wrote:
It was just the early game where my play had gone down the drain. Endark was not caught by the Np2 block, as we knew Ford was scum. Mafia took the calculated risk of sending Khaos on a visiting job with a watcher alive in order to beat the role-blocker. Fair enough let me say, however Logic was probably a better option. There would have been a high chance of Logic's lynch given he was seen visiting the NK target, however there was no hope for Khaos.

Every game, from now until forever, I will immediately town-read you for meta.

In context mon ami. I was playing on mafia scum and it happened there first. Next minute I come here and it happens again. Drawing a town read on blatantly false information or info that you couldn't possibly have is highest order scum tell.

Possibily but not certainly. There were many alternate explanations. Maybe I just see more because I almost always fabricate town-reads as either alignment.
Smithereens
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12/21/2015 3:48:32 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 3:25:40 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 12/21/2015 3:23:18 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 12/21/2015 3:20:38 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 12/21/2015 1:35:23 AM, Smithereens wrote:
It was just the early game where my play had gone down the drain. Endark was not caught by the Np2 block, as we knew Ford was scum. Mafia took the calculated risk of sending Khaos on a visiting job with a watcher alive in order to beat the role-blocker. Fair enough let me say, however Logic was probably a better option. There would have been a high chance of Logic's lynch given he was seen visiting the NK target, however there was no hope for Khaos.

Every game, from now until forever, I will immediately town-read you for meta.

In context mon ami. I was playing on mafia scum and it happened there first. Next minute I come here and it happens again. Drawing a town read on blatantly false information or info that you couldn't possibly have is highest order scum tell.

Possibily but not certainly. There were many alternate explanations. Maybe I just see more because I almost always fabricate town-reads as either alignment.

No it's not a scum tell if there are other explanations. A townie is completely unable to draw a read like this, they simply don't know. Only a mafia could know that I was absolutely town.
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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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12/21/2015 1:01:17 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 3:48:32 AM, Smithereens wrote:

No it's not a scum tell if there are other explanations. A townie is completely unable to draw a read like this, they simply don't know. Only a mafia could know that I was absolutely town.

You, specifically, in this game, were town as you exposed yourself elsewhere via outside game influence.
My work here is, finally, done.
Bullish
Posts: 3,527
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12/21/2015 1:01:32 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Mafia should have tried to kill bsh1 and mislynch Smithers instead of kill Smithers and try to mislynch bsh1. I believe I mentioned somewhere that Khaos's existence of scum explained why bsh1 lived for so long, because only he was crazy enough to believe bsh1 was a viable mislynch.

Like Khaos said I did narrow down the last 3 scum to 4 people almost exclusively due to roles, although that may have been lucky because I didn't know TUF would make popular scum; it's just that in my experience popular has NEVER been scum so I just considered it a risked worth betting the towns win on. I was also wrong about the supposed easy read on ford/ER, and about wanting to lynch Saph first of the pile.

Within that pile at the moment I compiled it, I probably would have bet that ER was the town given fords early claim and ER's behaviour post-replacement.

Over all, I thought it was balanced in favor of mafia, that's why thought there must have been only 3 scum. It was just tough luck Lucku died so early, and bsh1 wasn't killed even though mafia had no counters to his watcher role.
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