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We will meet again DDO mafia! :)

Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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12/31/2015 12:17:38 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
I intend to finish this on a really happy note, so bear with me for now.

See it. Call it. Coach it.

That's the philosophy everyone is taught where I work. Sometimes you'll find yourself in a game where members believe they are not obliged to follow the ToS, and believe outright attacks of other players are okay because it's a mafia game. While some level of aggression is considered acceptable on the count of the heated nature of mafia and debates in general, there is an objective line we draw that no member is allowed to infringe on. Namely, the ToS.

A personal attack is the following:
"Bob is wrong because Bob is a liar" Or
"Don't trust Bob, he is a bad person."

These attacks can be restated as:
"Bob is wrong because he is lying" Or
"Don't trust Bob, his previous games indicate a tendency to lie in this situations."

One situation is okay. The other is not allowed in any mafia game. Recently, members have been leaving mafia (TUF and myself to name a few) due to the failure of members to recognise what should otherwise be completely obvious.
Personal attacks/ racist slurs/ religious slurs/ ad hominem are violations of the ToS and are not allowed anywhere on DDO, including mafia.
Whenever it happens, there are three parties responsible for ensuring that the damage is limited and does not occur again.

1) The aggrieved party + bystanders
Your role is to see it, call it, coach it.
2) The mod
your role is to see it, call it, coach it.
3) The culprit
Your role is to cease your behaviour.

Recently, there have been incidents where players who have decided to resort to virulent attacks on other players, ruining their ability to enjoy the game. The problem is that sometimes they refuse to acknowledge that the ToS defines how we manage to keep mafia civil and enjoyable for everyone. When these players arise and attempt to ruin your game, if you aren't the sort of player who can enjoy toxic play you have two options:
1) Veto that player from joining mafia games.
2) leave mafia on DDO and go elsewhere.

I've recently experienced toxicity in this mafia community that has beckoned me to go with (2). I'm not interested in getting in arguments as to whether or not the ToS should be recognised in DDO mafia, we don't argue over matters like that. When toxic members arise and won't be fought off, the best option is to let them thrive. Players mature. Yama used to be vetoed from all sorts of mafia games that he tried to join. Nowadays he gets welcomed in. I sincerely hope that in the future, mafia players on this site learn to respect each other and respect the game.

Again, no hard feelings to anyone who thinks they are the topic of discussion, I'm not saying this to pick quarrels that haven't already been discussed. It's simply that I could be bitter and hang around to ensure my position is heard by all, or I could come back when the waves are more favourable for sailing. One of these options strikes me as the more mature of the two options, and so I go with it.

To avoid leaving on a dark note, there are a lot of really good players on this site. Bsh1 draws the greatest amount of respect from me and presumably from all the mods for the rigorousness with which he trains the newbies. He doesn't have to do it, and nobody pays him to do it. He doesn't do it for commendation, because he rarely gets any for his contributions to mafia. It's members like him that you absolutely want on your site.

The spitting images of positive players are abundant. Solon, Sapph, HPG, XLAV, Beginner, Wylted, Bullish, 7th, Endark and I could go on. As in, there are a lot of names that should go on a list of people that ought to be recognised for their positive contributions to mafia here.

Some players have had histories with turmoil and controversy, Yama and to a lesser extent, XLAV. But all turns out well in the end due to their ability to recognise principle's that have turned into mafia's backbone: 'Civility and respect.' We generally don't have players that hate other players and refuse to play with them. When we do (it does happen) something is terribly wrong. As a mafia player who has played a fair few games these past years, I know that people get over their grievances after they start to miss the game; hence everything works out in the end. In the meantime, a stroll in the park is necessary to enlighten one's senses to the world that is outside of DDO's mafia.

All I can say is that I'll be back, because I'm not complete without DDO mafia. But at this current time, if there's anywhere I don't want to be, it's in DDO's mafia.

With love to most of you,
Smithereens.
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XLAV
Posts: 13,715
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12/31/2015 12:26:05 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 12:17:38 PM, Smithereens wrote:

We generally don't have players that hate other players and refuse to play with them. When we do (it does happen) something is terribly wrong.
*cough* TuF *cough*
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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12/31/2015 12:44:12 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Is it okay to insult people, if you believe that an emotional response could help you read the person better?
XLAV
Posts: 13,715
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12/31/2015 12:55:43 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 12:44:12 PM, Wylted wrote:
Is it okay to insult people, if you believe that an emotional response could help you read the person better?

*cough* Mikal *cough*
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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12/31/2015 12:59:33 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 12:55:43 PM, XLAV wrote:
At 12/31/2015 12:44:12 PM, Wylted wrote:
Is it okay to insult people, if you believe that an emotional response could help you read the person better?

*cough* Mikal *cough*

Is it okay to find out where they live and not directly talk about the mafia game, but still somehow manage to insinuate if they don't tell you honestly what affiliation they are, you'll kill their wife and kids?

Maybe you say something like for example

Did you know I once killed a guy's family for not telling me his affiliation in mafia when I showed up for an unexpected visit, though I never directly asked him for his affiliation?"
XLAV
Posts: 13,715
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12/31/2015 1:00:42 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 12:59:33 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/31/2015 12:55:43 PM, XLAV wrote:
At 12/31/2015 12:44:12 PM, Wylted wrote:
Is it okay to insult people, if you believe that an emotional response could help you read the person better?

*cough* Mikal *cough*


Is it okay to find out where they live and not directly talk about the mafia game, but still somehow manage to insinuate if they don't tell you honestly what affiliation they are, you'll kill their wife and kids?

Maybe you say something like for example

Did you know I once killed a guy's family for not telling me his affiliation in mafia when I showed up for an unexpected visit, though I never directly asked him for his affiliation?"

Yeah its ok. Its a legit scum tactic.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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12/31/2015 1:04:48 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 1:00:42 PM, XLAV wrote:
At 12/31/2015 12:59:33 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/31/2015 12:55:43 PM, XLAV wrote:
At 12/31/2015 12:44:12 PM, Wylted wrote:
Is it okay to insult people, if you believe that an emotional response could help you read the person better?

*cough* Mikal *cough*


Is it okay to find out where they live and not directly talk about the mafia game, but still somehow manage to insinuate if they don't tell you honestly what affiliation they are, you'll kill their wife and kids?

Maybe you say something like for example

Did you know I once killed a guy's family for not telling me his affiliation in mafia when I showed up for an unexpected visit, though I never directly asked him for his affiliation?"

Yeah its ok. Its a legit scum tactic.

You're right. I've never seen a mod specifically state it couldn't be done
Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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12/31/2015 1:13:41 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 12:26:53 PM, XLAV wrote:
*cough* FT *cough*

*cough* *cough* *cough* Khaos*cough *cough

There's nothing toxic these two bring to the game. They hate each other, but they are extremely strong contributors.
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XLAV
Posts: 13,715
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12/31/2015 1:19:41 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 1:13:41 PM, Smithereens wrote:
At 12/31/2015 12:26:53 PM, XLAV wrote:
*cough* FT *cough*

*cough* *cough* *cough* Khaos*cough *cough

There's nothing toxic these two bring to the game. They hate each other, but they are extremely strong contributors.

Yeah, but they won't play with in a game together.
Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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12/31/2015 2:06:27 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 1:35:50 PM, XLAV wrote:
At 12/31/2015 1:19:41 PM, XLAV wrote:

Yeah, but they won't play in a game together.

Fix'd.

Indeed. A game with either one of them is bound to be interesting nevertheless. I believe I acknowledged the fact that some people don't get along.
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Sapphique
Posts: 4,119
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12/31/2015 3:20:40 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 2:06:27 PM, Smithereens wrote:

How soon will you be back? I want to play more games with you D:
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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12/31/2015 5:36:38 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 12:26:53 PM, XLAV wrote:
*cough* FT *cough*

*cough* *cough* *cough* Khaos*cough *cough

Are you okay?
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

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XLAV
Posts: 13,715
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12/31/2015 7:26:46 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 5:36:38 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 12/31/2015 12:26:53 PM, XLAV wrote:
*cough* FT *cough*

*cough* *cough* *cough* Khaos*cough *cough

Are you okay?

I drank too much toxic.
Daltonian
Posts: 4,797
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12/31/2015 7:33:17 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 12:17:38 PM, Smithereens wrote:
I'm disappointed I won't be able to play a game with you; I used to be a mafia fanatic before I went on hiatus. :(

But I agree with your assessment, the status of mafia on DDO right now is pretty sad, it's my hope that it will eventually be reinvigorated. However, with the current levels of hostility and toxicity that many players insist on bringing to the game, and no good, counteracting players present anymore to help remedy that, it's definitely difficult.

I know that I'd like to at least try a couple more games before I write it off forever, though.
F _ C K
All I need is "u", baby
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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12/31/2015 8:32:27 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 7:26:46 PM, XLAV wrote:
At 12/31/2015 5:36:38 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 12/31/2015 12:26:53 PM, XLAV wrote:
*cough* FT *cough*

*cough* *cough* *cough* Khaos*cough *cough

Are you okay?

I drank too much toxic.

You should try a smoothie.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

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bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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12/31/2015 8:35:28 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
You should stay, Smithers.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Beginner
Posts: 4,292
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12/31/2015 9:37:55 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
I wish you the best. And may our next meeting be on the field of Mafia. I'll be looking forward to that. :)
Senpai has noticed you.
SolonKR
Posts: 4,041
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1/1/2016 1:16:57 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 11:30:53 PM, Smithereens wrote:
At 12/31/2015 8:35:28 PM, bsh1 wrote:
You should stay, Smithers.

You're game will potentially be my last. MS beckons.

*ahem*
>:(

Also, you should stay anyway, bae, hey, hey.
SO to Bailey, the love of my life <3
Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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1/1/2016 4:40:26 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 1:16:57 AM, SolonKR wrote:
At 12/31/2015 11:30:53 PM, Smithereens wrote:
At 12/31/2015 8:35:28 PM, bsh1 wrote:
You should stay, Smithers.

You're game will potentially be my last. MS beckons.

*ahem*
>:(

Also, you should stay anyway, bae, hey, hey.

I'll always be here on DDO my one true love. Alas, it is the games forum that hath smitten me down. But shall I recover oh Solon? With certainty, for thee if none other~!
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