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Themeless Mafia DP 2

TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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1/26/2016 9:33:09 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
A note on voting.

I don't require an unvote to change your vote. If you want to simply unvote and remove your vote. Yes, unvote. If you want to change your vote, just vote whoever it is you want to vote for. I've never required an unvote. I've vehemently opposed the required unvote (though I recognize that people do it out of habit, which is fine). I don't see it's need.

Bolding your vote (or otherwise making it clear it's an official vote) is what makes it counts.

/note

Killed Last DP
Cobalt - Secret Miller - Town

Killed Last NP
Zaradi - Cop - Town

Living Players
1. Bullish
2. F-16
3. XLAV
4. FourTrouble
5. Buddamoose

With 5 players, it takes 3 votes to lynch.
This DP will end no later than: 1/29/2016 at 1630 DDO Time.
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
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1/26/2016 10:28:03 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 10:14:43 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Yeah, Zaradi is a weird kill. I was expecting you or XLAV to go down.

Dude, are you scum? You've done nothing this game. I'm very concerned.
XLAV
Posts: 13,715
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1/26/2016 10:28:14 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 10:14:43 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Yeah, Zaradi is a weird kill. I was expecting you or XLAV to go down.

Why not yourself?
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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1/26/2016 10:30:23 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Zaradi killed? That is the oddest NK I've ever seen... fuckin hell that means I need to go back to the drawing board on reads cause I was wrong on two counts now...
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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1/26/2016 10:31:51 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 10:28:03 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 1/26/2016 10:14:43 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Yeah, Zaradi is a weird kill. I was expecting you or XLAV to go down.

Dude, are you scum? You've done nothing this game. I'm very concerned.

Nope. But I'm having quite a bit of trouble getting into this game for whatever reason.
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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1/26/2016 10:33:13 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
FT, can you explain your read on Bullish? Cause that last second push on F-16 by XLAV and Bullish, as well as being wrong on my top two scum reads, has me reconsidering the two of them as a scum team, if not just one, and if one I'm leaning Bullish
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
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1/26/2016 10:33:21 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 10:31:51 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Nope. But I'm having quite a bit of trouble getting into this game for whatever reason.

Sounds scummy. How would you feel if we lynched you?
XLAV
Posts: 13,715
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1/26/2016 10:34:03 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 10:30:23 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
Zaradi killed? That is the oddest NK I've ever seen... fuckin hell that means I need to go back to the drawing board on reads cause I was wrong on two counts now...

Out of everyone's reaction of the NK, yours look fake.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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1/26/2016 10:35:20 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 10:33:21 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 1/26/2016 10:31:51 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Nope. But I'm having quite a bit of trouble getting into this game for whatever reason.

Sounds scummy. How would you feel if we lynched you?

It has to be lylo so we'd lose. I'm hoping to find some spare time to get it together before that happens.
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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1/26/2016 10:36:22 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 10:34:03 PM, XLAV wrote:
At 1/26/2016 10:30:23 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
Zaradi killed? That is the oddest NK I've ever seen... fuckin hell that means I need to go back to the drawing board on reads cause I was wrong on two counts now...

Out of everyone's reaction of the NK, yours look fake.

and why? Everything i said is true, Zaradi doesn't make sense from my perspective, cause he had a lot of people thinking he was scummy, so it was odd AF. And if my top two scum reads are wrong, I'm obviously going to be reconsidering, and on top of that I'm frustrated cause I was confident AF about them.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
XLAV
Posts: 13,715
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1/26/2016 10:37:27 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 10:34:59 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
Xlav, why'd you vote F-16 on D1? Why did you switch to Cobalt?

Because I think F16 is scum. I'd love to explain right now but I'm a slow phone writter and I gotta go to school soon.

And I voted Cobalt simple because I wanted a lynch.
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
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1/26/2016 10:39:05 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 10:37:27 PM, XLAV wrote:
At 1/26/2016 10:34:59 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
Xlav, why'd you vote F-16 on D1? Why did you switch to Cobalt?

Because I think F16 is scum.

Well, you didn't push the lynch. I didn't see any conviction there.
XLAV
Posts: 13,715
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1/26/2016 10:41:36 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 10:39:05 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 1/26/2016 10:37:27 PM, XLAV wrote:
At 1/26/2016 10:34:59 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
Xlav, why'd you vote F-16 on D1? Why did you switch to Cobalt?

Because I think F16 is scum.

Well, you didn't push the lynch. I didn't see any conviction there.

I was busy bruh. I was actually hoping Bullish would push it. In fact, the reason why I acted on my scum read on F16 was because I was hoping bullish would do the pushing.
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
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1/26/2016 10:42:27 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 10:35:20 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
It has to be lylo so we'd lose. I'm hoping to find some spare time to get it together before that happens.

Why are you having trouble reading this game? It had a great list of players. Sounds like your motivations simply aren't aligned with the players you normally enjoy playing with.
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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1/26/2016 10:43:04 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
You know what's frustrating as sh!t about this game? Right now the only three people who have put forth reasoning behind reads that isn't just "gut" or "feels" or "looks like" things are FT, F-16, and I. Even then F-16 has been meta based, so his reasoning is hardly up there in proficiency

Bullish and XLAV both, havent put forth sh!t that even looks like valid reasoning. Gut, feels, looks like, type stuff is a cop out to actually trying to discern things

Looking back at last DP given the two flips, I'm starting to see that I was wrong to be so confident in XLAV, and wrong to give Bullish the benefit of the doubt because of just one post.

FT, honestly you are the one person I'm thinking is town in this, with your final set of posts, so what do you think of these possibilities?

1) XLAV/Bullish
3) F-16/XLAV
4) Bullish/F-16

Which one seems likelier, which one not?
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
XLAV
Posts: 13,715
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1/26/2016 10:47:42 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 10:42:55 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
Xlav, what do you think of Bullish?

I think he's town.
I really like how he defended Cobalt and started the F16 wagon. He pretty much did what I wanted to do if I was more active that time.

Plus I know he doesn't want to share his read and all that sht, I agree that it anti-town, but I also see townie motivations.
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
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1/26/2016 10:59:41 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Bullish's decision to defend Cobalt is one of the main things that I found scummy about him. The timing was completely off. It looked like he was just making sh!t up as the game went. I mentioned that I was hesitant about the lynch on Cobalt because of the lack of resistance, and suddenly Bullish states an intention to resist, despite stating no intention before that. Looked completely fake.
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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1/26/2016 11:00:57 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 10:43:04 PM, Buddamoose wrote:

1) XLAV/Bullish

The simultaneous push on F-16 certainly lends credence to the possibility. But XLAV still isn't giving me scum vibes. Plus his push on Zaradi early on was townie. He went for a noob, when an active player made themselves known, he pushed that player instead. That final push put it back to null though

3) F-16/XLAV

All my points on F-16 from previous applicable, I'm still at the wall of just not seeing enough to think XLAV is scum that overrides

4) Bullish/F-16

This to me seems the likeliest of the three possibilities from my perspective, given I consider FT the townest read I have at this point. His final strong of posts was town AF to me.

There's plenty of cause in my book to think F-16 is scum, but that final push certainly created distance. But given that I made it clear I wasn't switching my vote, and FT made it clear he wasn't voting F-16, would enough support for an F-16 lynch DP actually have been garnered in what little time remained? I don't think so...

Especially given that Zaradi at the time had placed his vote earlier on Cobalt, because he said he didn't think he'd be around to change it...
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
XLAV
Posts: 13,715
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1/26/2016 11:03:55 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Come on FT, do some NK analysis. Why are you alive? We both know experience players love to NK people who scum read them and let people who town read them live. I always do that as scum. Zaradi's death strengthened my scum read on F16 and Budda because scum didn't kill you and your top town read in DP1 were F16 and Budda.
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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1/26/2016 11:04:21 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 11:00:38 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
As for F-16 being scum, who is his partner?

Bullish imho, would be likeliest to me. I explained in my previous post, but at the time it happened, and with how votes had been placed it was highly highly doubtful an F-16 lynch would happened. On top of that, he didn't really push it anyways. Just threw out a random F-16 vote, and then said to you, "i'm gonna make you face that possibility" in regards to you not wanting to consider F-16 was scum. Really at this point comes across as him shoving it in your face and taunting you about it.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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1/26/2016 11:05:45 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 11:03:55 PM, XLAV wrote:
Come on FT, do some NK analysis. Why are you alive? We both know experience players love to NK people who scum read them and let people who town read them live. I always do that as scum. Zaradi's death strengthened my scum read on F16 and Budda because scum didn't kill you and your top town read in DP1 were F16 and Budda.

You can remove me from that analysis, FT never said he was reading me as town, he pointed out a couple things he was suspicious of, then a couple things that he thought were townish. Not once did he say I was a townread
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
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1/26/2016 11:08:34 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 11:03:55 PM, XLAV wrote:
Come on FT, do some NK analysis. Why are you alive? We both know experience players love to NK people who scum read them and let people who town read them live. I always do that as scum. Zaradi's death strengthened my scum read on F16 and Budda because scum didn't kill you and your top town read in DP1 were F16 and Budda.

That's incorrect. I didn't have any townreads, but I was working under the assumption Budda/Cobalt were town.

I was looking for reasons to scumread F-16, but nobody gave me any worth lynching him over.
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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1/26/2016 11:11:26 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
A NK analysis though? Holy cheese XLAV, thats scummy AF to present as an option. Well, scratch not having enough to think you're scum...

XLAV/Bullish?
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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1/26/2016 11:14:55 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 11:11:26 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
A NK analysis though? Holy cheese XLAV, thats scummy AF to present as an option. Well, scratch not having enough to think you're scum...

XLAV/Bullish?

Btw, an analysis of NK, at least forwarding it as something smart to do, is scummy because town then a person is trying to analyze something that could have been done for any variety of reasons without any way to discern which is likeliest.

Not only does that leave an analysis vulnerable falling into the trap of thinking exactly what is wanted to be thought by mafia, but vulnerable to being wrong, because as previously stated, one can't possibly hope to discern what reason the NK was done for, so out of all the potential possibilities, the odds of landing on the wrong one, and thus the wrong person/people, is so high one is gonna be wrong a ridiculous amount of the time.

To front it as a viable option has little pro-town motivations whatsoever...
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion