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TEAM Battleship: Sign Ups.

donald.keller
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1/28/2016 7:59:36 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
{---- INTRODUCTION ----}

TEAM Battleship is a new game where you take control of one of a number of ship types. Each ship uses it's skills and abilities to help lead it's team to victory.

Both teams, Red and Blue, will receive a map of their ship locations. Each turn, every player will move their ship, and pick one location to bomb. Winning requires strategy and working together to plan out moves.

Each ship type offers a different attack, and moves a different number of blocks.

The ships available are:
Speeders: 3 Blocks long. Moves 4 blocks.
Battleship: 4 Blocks long. Moves 2 blocks.
Recon: 2 Blocks long. Move 2 blocks.

(Feel free to offer any new ship ideas for approval.)

The Speeder and Battleship can fire anywhere on the map... The Recon can only shoot Probes, which scout the targeted block, and the blocks around it, for enemy ships.

{---- How To Play ----}

At the start of each turn, every team members gets to give two actions... A movement action, and an attack action. Turning your ship takes one movement point, so a Battleship, with 2 movement points, can only move one block after turning.

At the end of the turn (or when all actions are in), your moves are done, and the next team starts their turn. When you hit all of a ship's blocks, that ship is destroyed.

When the last enemy ship is gone, you win.

{---- Sign Ups ----}

The game will take place on the Friday 5th. The time will be 8:00 PM US Central time.
Only sign up if you can attend.

Give your name. Ship types will be decided when you are put in a team.
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breakingamber
Posts: 1,422
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1/28/2016 3:17:03 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Sign me up!!!!!
MAY THE WRATH OF THE MODS BE UPON YOU!
- Master Elodin

"When will [Obliteration] learn that Funtimes' plan of saving/destroying the world with pancakes is the only way? "
"She wouldn't even have to make real pancakes! Just the batter, and Obliteration could cook it with his powers! OBLITERATION, YOU'RE WASTING YOUR TALENTS"
- Voidus and TwiLyghtSansSparkles

"An Epic stage magician and a zombie dinosaur? She sure as Braize won"t pull the line there!"
- Edgedancer
ValosaBirdy
Posts: 1,184
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1/28/2016 5:39:20 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 7:59:36 AM, donald.keller wrote:
{---- INTRODUCTION ----}
(Feel free to offer any new ship ideas for approval.)

Make a Sub.
3 blocks long: move 2.
can submerge after its hit once per game. When it submerges it's allowed to move to any spot on the map.
lannan13
Posts: 23,022
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1/29/2016 1:44:08 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 3:17:03 PM, breakingamber wrote:
Sign me up!!!!!
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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breakingamber
Posts: 1,422
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1/29/2016 2:01:32 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 5:39:20 PM, ValosaBirdy wrote:
At 1/28/2016 7:59:36 AM, donald.keller wrote:
{---- INTRODUCTION ----}
(Feel free to offer any new ship ideas for approval.)

Make a Sub.
3 blocks long: move 2.
can submerge after its hit once per game. When it submerges it's allowed to move to any spot on the map.

Are you signing up?
MAY THE WRATH OF THE MODS BE UPON YOU!
- Master Elodin

"When will [Obliteration] learn that Funtimes' plan of saving/destroying the world with pancakes is the only way? "
"She wouldn't even have to make real pancakes! Just the batter, and Obliteration could cook it with his powers! OBLITERATION, YOU'RE WASTING YOUR TALENTS"
- Voidus and TwiLyghtSansSparkles

"An Epic stage magician and a zombie dinosaur? She sure as Braize won"t pull the line there!"
- Edgedancer
ValosaBirdy
Posts: 1,184
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1/29/2016 5:08:05 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/29/2016 2:01:32 PM, breakingamber wrote:
At 1/28/2016 5:39:20 PM, ValosaBirdy wrote:
At 1/28/2016 7:59:36 AM, donald.keller wrote:
{---- INTRODUCTION ----}
(Feel free to offer any new ship ideas for approval.)

Make a Sub.
3 blocks long: move 2.
can submerge after its hit once per game. When it submerges it's allowed to move to any spot on the map.

Are you signing up?

if I can make it. I will try to get on. I live in the eastern time zone though
Krushia
Posts: 5
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1/30/2016 6:13:53 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Krushia
If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles.
Sun Tzu

Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
Sun Tzu
breakingamber
Posts: 1,422
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2/1/2016 2:13:52 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
1. breakingamber
2. Lannan13
3. ValosaBirdy [?]
4.
5.
6.
MAY THE WRATH OF THE MODS BE UPON YOU!
- Master Elodin

"When will [Obliteration] learn that Funtimes' plan of saving/destroying the world with pancakes is the only way? "
"She wouldn't even have to make real pancakes! Just the batter, and Obliteration could cook it with his powers! OBLITERATION, YOU'RE WASTING YOUR TALENTS"
- Voidus and TwiLyghtSansSparkles

"An Epic stage magician and a zombie dinosaur? She sure as Braize won"t pull the line there!"
- Edgedancer
Cobalt
Posts: 991
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2/3/2016 4:19:19 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
1. breakingamber
2. Lannan13
3. ValosaBirdy [?]
4. Cobalt

This game obviously didn't adequately fill to start on the 29th. We could start a 2v2 right now.

And I'm excited for a game like this. In mafia it's all psychology, behavioral analysis and intuition. Here, I can finally do some math. Let's goooo!
Cobalt
Posts: 991
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2/3/2016 5:08:24 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 7:59:36 AM, donald.keller wrote:

I have a few questions.

1. How large is the board?
2. Does each team member get to pick a ship of their choice?
3. Are teams allowed to communicate? (I imagine so, but I want to be clear.)
4. Does this communication happen before ships are chosen (if chosen)?
5. How many movement points does each particular ship get? Are some faster than others?
6. How many turns do scout buoys last?
7. Are the Blue ships on a Blue field and Red ships on a Red field, or is the game board shared?
8. What is the turn order. Ie, are shots fired before movement, or does movement happen before shots are fired?

Suggestions:

1. Speeders have too much movement utility.

Speeders, being 3 units long, should not have the ability to move a further distance than it is long. It is reasonable that, upon movement, the speeder occupies no spaces it previously did -- but allowing it to move that plus one gives it way too much utility. The speeder needs a natural counter besides luck, the obvious counter being the buoy. With a 4 unit movement speed, buoys would be much more difficult to correctly execute.

2. Scout buoys should last a limited number of terms, but greater than one turn.

One turn doesn't give the buoy a huge amount of utility. If we assume there are 4 ships on each side with an average length of 3 units, then that's only 12 squared units of occupies space. If we assume the board is a traditional 10x10, a buoy simply would not be effective lasting only one turn. Two turns would likely be best balanced.

3. In a 2v2 match up, each player should control two ships, four a total of four ships on each field.

Two ships per side leads to a boring game. There should be between 4 and 6 ships on each side at the beginning of the round, assuming a 10x10 board.

4. The game board should not be shared.

Sharing a board would introduce the need to have all sorts of new mechanics. (What happens when two ships collide, can ships see each other when they are next to one another, can we fire upon ourselves, etc. etc.)

5. Recon should not be able to throw a buoy just anywhere -- it should be within a particular radius of the ship itself.

If Recon had the ability to throw a buoy anywhere, then it would be well off sitting in a safe, stationary location firing buoys off at strategic points on the map. I'm sure you could mathematically show (and if it becomes an issue, I will) that it requires only a surprisingly small number of buoys to accurately track the exact location of an enemy ship.

6. As in traditional battleship, hits should be announced and sinks should be announced. Additionally since multiple shots will be fired each round (possibly, considering multiple ships), it should be specified which ship scored the hit.

7. Buoys -> Shots -> Movement

My recommended "battle order". Buoys should clearly land before movement is made, otherwise it is just a wasted buoy for one turn. Shots should occur before movement, as it allows both sides slightly more predictability at the beginning.

--------------------

Ideas for further ships -- not recommended in a first game trial.

1. Command Station -- This vessel is stationary and can be built by any non-battleship. A vessel must be stationary for 3 turns in order to build the Command Station, at which point it can be placed at any tile directly adjacent or diagonal to the building vessel. The opposing team can see your Command Station's location and can disarm it by moving through any of the eight squares surrounding the Station on their own board.

While a Command Station is active, each ship on that team receives an extra utility. Battleships can move one extra space, speeders can turn without penalty and recon can deploy two buoys. Upon the Command Station's destruction, all ships on the side that built the Station are stunned for one turn. (Ie, After destroying a station, that side gets another turn.

Ships are not revealed upon destroying a Command Station.

[This might be good for the first game. It gives players an intermediate goal. Maintaining CS could be a critical part of the game, allowing for short term, non-game winning skirmishes to be substantive and meaningful.]

2. The submarine -- The idea already mentioned is great, except for the "move anywhere" part. That gives the sub *way* too much utility. Rather, I suggest the sub be a team-controlled fifth unit. Upon being hit, it submerges and becomes invulnerable for one turn once per game. At this point, it can fire a torpedo along each of the 8 major axes. (N, W, NW, SE, etc.) If the torpedo hits a tile where an enemy ship is located on the enemy board, a hit is announced. Note: During the invulnerable turn, the sub can move it's usual speed as well as fire. The speed should probably be relatively slow. Maybe 2 units, for a sub 3 units long.

3. Aircraft carrier -- How could you play any game called battleship and not have an aircraft carrier? 5 units long, 1 move speed. Being so vulnerable, it provides utility by being a pretty strong piece.

The AC can launch an aerial attack every two turns that affect an area 3x1 large. Any ship in the area will register as hit, however the exact coordinates of the hit shall not be established.

This gives the AC 1.5 times the fire power of the ordinary ship, but that ability is countered by the AC's large size, slow movement, and inaccurate hit-tracking.

---------

Sorry for this huge post. This game has me a bit excited. The new ship suggestions are best suited to later games. As you'll be the mod, I'm hoping you can clarify my questions and take into consideration my suggestions. I look forward to this game and I hope you make it happen.
Cobalt
Posts: 991
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2/3/2016 5:09:31 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Actually, on the Command Station -- the shortest ship should be unable to build it. Building a CS should leave you vulnerable, so a 2 length recon shouldn't be able to build it. So change "any non-battleship" to "any non-recon ship".
donald.keller
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2/3/2016 6:04:17 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/3/2016 5:08:24 AM, Cobalt wrote:
At 1/28/2016 7:59:36 AM, donald.keller wrote:

I have a few questions.

1. How large is the board?

Depends. Likely 30 x 30.

2. Does each team member get to pick a ship of their choice?

Yes.

3. Are teams allowed to communicate? (I imagine so, but I want to be clear.)

Yes. In fact, it's preferred in TEAM Battleship.

4. Does this communication happen before ships are chosen (if chosen)?

Of course, to best plan the ships one might use. And after each move, and during each move... Free communication through out.

5. How many movement points does each particular ship get? Are some faster than others?

Yes. I listed the speeds at top.

6. How many turns do scout buoys last?

One turn. but you can use one each turn.

7. Are the Blue ships on a Blue field and Red ships on a Red field, or is the game board shared?

Shared. Although, you can do it differently if you Mod the game. So many variables are important, and as far as modding goes, you could replace them with airplanes or battleshits...

But in this particular mod, the map is shared.

8. What is the turn order. Ie, are shots fired before movement, or does movement happen before shots are fired?

Either or. Your shot doesn't depend on where you are. You shoot and move in the same turn, at the same time.

Suggestions:

1. Speeders have too much movement utility.

Speeders, being 3 units long, should not have the ability to move a further distance than it is long. It is reasonable that, upon movement, the speeder occupies no spaces it previously did -- but allowing it to move that plus one gives it way too much utility. The speeder needs a natural counter besides luck, the obvious counter being the buoy. With a 4 unit movement speed, buoys would be much more difficult to correctly execute.

This is true. Good catch. Then the speeder can only move 3 blocks.

2. Scout buoys should last a limited number of terms, but greater than one turn.

One turn doesn't give the buoy a huge amount of utility. If we assume there are 4 ships on each side with an average length of 3 units, then that's only 12 squared units of occupies space. If we assume the board is a traditional 10x10, a buoy simply would not be effective lasting only one turn. Two turns would likely be best balanced.

Well, if you fire at a spot, that attack will only occupy 1 block, compared to the 9 blocks occupied by the Buoy. In fact, on a 20x20 map, you're viewing 4.5% of the map at anytime...

In fact, (assuming you have 4 3-block ships on a 20 x 20 map) your ships + their view (assuming they see 1 block around them) covers 30% of the map. So a buoy covers 6% of the non-visible map. They cover 8.5% of the non-visible map. If my math is right, you have a 14% chance of finding a ship with each use of the Buoy.

3. In a 2v2 match up, each player should control two ships, four a total of four ships on each field.

I agree.

Two ships per side leads to a boring game. There should be between 4 and 6 ships on each side at the beginning of the round, assuming a 10x10 board.

4. The game board should not be shared.

Sharing a board would introduce the need to have all sorts of new mechanics. (What happens when two ships collide, can ships see each other when they are next to one another, can we fire upon ourselves, etc. etc.)

Ships do RAM damage. The larger ship wins... But smaller ships are faster. Perhaps, however, each ship can see in fact of them as far as they can move (so if you can move 4 blocks, you see four blocks ahead, even if you only see 1 block to each side.)

5. Recon should not be able to throw a buoy just anywhere -- it should be within a particular radius of the ship itself.

It's still battleship, so I want to keep some aspects the same. It'll need to be test-tried to really know whats better.

If Recon had the ability to throw a buoy anywhere, then it would be well off sitting in a safe, stationary location firing buoys off at strategic points on the map. I'm sure you could mathematically show (and if it becomes an issue, I will) that it requires only a surprisingly small number of buoys to accurately track the exact location of an enemy ship.

Nowhere is safe, as ships can fire anywhere. Sitting still will make you more vulnerable.

6. As in traditional battleship, hits should be announced and sinks should be announced. Additionally since multiple shots will be fired each round (possibly, considering multiple ships), it should be specified which ship scored the hit.

They will be. I'm curious why you thought that wasn't already part of the game.

7. Buoys -> Shots -> Movement

My recommended "battle order". Buoys should clearly land before movement is made, otherwise it is just a wasted buoy for one turn. Shots should occur before movement, as it allows both sides slightly more predictability at the beginning.

It's turn-based, so they can't move before you throw the buoy. You can do a Real-Time turn system where both teams move at once if you think it'll be interesting. In this version, though, one team moves, then the other.

--------------------

Ideas for further ships -- not recommended in a first game trial.

1. Command Station -- This vessel is stationary and can be built by any non-battleship. A vessel must be stationary for 3 turns in order to build the Command Station, at which point it can be placed at any tile directly adjacent or diagonal to the building vessel. The opposing team can see your Command Station's location and can disarm it by moving through any of the eight squares surrounding the Station on their own board.

While a Command Station is active, each ship on that team receives an extra utility. Battleships can move one extra space, speeders can turn without penalty and recon can deploy two buoys. Upon the Command Station's destruction, all ships on the side that built the Station are stunned for one turn. (Ie, After destroying a station, that side gets another turn.

Ships are not revealed upon destroying a Command Station.

Yes, I do want to see how in-depth this game can go, like so, but not yet. This version will be mostly simple.

[This might be good for the first game. It gives players an intermediate goal. Maintaining CS could be a critical part of the game, allowing for short term, non-game winning skirmishes to be substantive and meaningful.]

Like I said, simple for now. I want a plain game of battleship, and someday we'll see where it goes.
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donald.keller
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2/3/2016 6:04:22 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
2. The submarine -- The idea already mentioned is great, except for the "move anywhere" part. That gives the sub *way* too much utility. Rather, I suggest the sub be a team-controlled fifth unit. Upon being hit, it submerges and becomes invulnerable for one turn once per game. At this point, it can fire a torpedo along each of the 8 major axes. (N, W, NW, SE, etc.) If the torpedo hits a tile where an enemy ship is located on the enemy board, a hit is announced. Note: During the invulnerable turn, the sub can move it's usual speed as well as fire. The speed should probably be relatively slow. Maybe 2 units, for a sub 3 units long.

That 'move anywhere' thing was why I didn't respond. I didn't want to specifically say no, but I also couldn't accept that aspect... So I thought it through and decided the utility was to great for this version of the game.

3. Aircraft carrier -- How could you play any game called battleship and not have an aircraft carrier? 5 units long, 1 move speed. Being so vulnerable, it provides utility by being a pretty strong piece.

The AC can launch an aerial attack every two turns that affect an area 3x1 large. Any ship in the area will register as hit, however the exact coordinates of the hit shall not be established.

This gives the AC 1.5 times the fire power of the ordinary ship, but that ability is countered by the AC's large size, slow movement, and inaccurate hit-tracking.

Indeed. That's very interesting. I actually really like the idea.

---------

Sorry for this huge post. This game has me a bit excited. The new ship suggestions are best suited to later games. As you'll be the mod, I'm hoping you can clarify my questions and take into consideration my suggestions. I look forward to this game and I hope you make it happen.

No no.. I love the enthusiasm. It means a lot to me
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Cobalt
Posts: 991
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2/3/2016 6:23:58 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Thank you for the response!

Of course it's turn based. For some reason, that obvious mechanic didn't quite click in my head. Action order wouldn't actually matter. And I actually agree that a RTS type action mechanic wouldn't be very effective via forum.

And you might be right about buoys. I'll have to look it over a bit. I'll respond shortly with the buoy analysis. The recon's only use is buoys, so there has to be some incentive to use them. It's important to make sure they're strong, but not too strong. I'll look at the numbers.

I know breaking is active and I know Valosa has the potential to be active. Lannan is always active, despite the fact that he is always making excuses for not being active. This game could get going somewhat soon.
Vaarka
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2/3/2016 1:26:33 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
I might be available. If I can be there, I'll sign up by Friday morning at the latest.
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