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Beginners' Mafia 44.1: DP1

Sapphique
Posts: 4,119
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2/26/2016 2:43:59 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
INTRODUCTION TO MAFIA

Welcome! For those of you unfamiliar with the game, Mafia is a strategy game that pits an uninformed majority (the Town) against an informed minority (the Mafia). This means that the townies don't know who the other townies are, but the mafia do, and they have their own shared PM to communicate. The game begins with the Day Phase (DP), a public thread in which all players may discuss to determine who they think is mafia. Town's objective is to eliminate the mafia by voting to lynch them, while the mafia's objective is to avoid being lynched and get townies lynched instead. During the Night Phase (NP), players can use the abilities they've been given, if any. The mafia may also choose one player to kill in addition to using any abilities they have. All night actions are submitted privately via each player's individual or mafia PM. The game ends when either all of the mafia have been eliminated, or when the mafia make up 50% or more of the living players (since there will not be enough townies to lynch them).

RULES

Gameplay

1. Votes or unvotes must be bolded.
2. You may unvote or change your vote at any time before the final vote count is posted. However, once a lynch occurs, no further vote changes will count.
3. A lynch occurs when a majority of the players votes to lynch someone.
4. After a lynch occurs, all players (including the lynched player) may talk until I post the final vote count.
5. If a majority hasn't been reached by deadline, or if a majority VTNLs, the DP will end in a no-lynch.
6. Submit night actions via your PM.
7. DPs have a deadline of 72 hours. NPs have a deadline of 24 hours.

Player Conduct

1. Don't C/P anything from your role PMs into the game. Paraphrasing is fine.
2. Don't talk about the game outside the thread or mod-sanctioned PMs.
3. Don't post in the game thread after you die and have been flipped.
4. Play to your win condition.
5. Violating one of these rules will result in a modkill.

Other

1. If you are asking me a question in the DP, please bold it.
2. Please try to maintain civil conduct.
3. Please try limiting quote pyramids. They clutter the game, making it more difficult to read.
4. Anything not covered here will be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.

The mafia may continue to talk in their designated PM after death.
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
Sapphique
Posts: 4,119
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2/26/2016 2:49:18 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
SETUP

Because DDO formatting won't let me post tables, here's the link to the Matrix 6 setup, as well as a list of all possible role PMs. This is very important, so please read it:

https://docs.google.com...

COMMONLY USED TERMS

https://docs.google.com...

LIVING PLAYERS

1. famousdebater
2. Geographia
3. ObiWan
4. Torton
5. Tenebris_Sanguinis
6. TeddytheKid
7. F-16_Fighting_Falcon
8. FourTrouble
9. Skepsikyma

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.
The DP ends in 72 hours, or at 10:00 pm, EST, on 2/28/15.
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
TeddytheKid
Posts: 10
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2/26/2016 2:59:31 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
Hi, everyone.

I'm very new to this, so please forgive me if it takes me a while to catch on. Hopefully this will be an interesting learning experience.

The linked documents were also very helpful.
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,759
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2/26/2016 3:11:26 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
Exciting news. I got town. So this should be fun.

Vote: F-16

F-16 needs to show us his colors fast. Not going to let him live if he isn't active.

Also, Teddy feels like town for opening up the game.
TeddytheKid
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2/26/2016 3:14:53 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 3:11:26 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
Exciting news. I got town. So this should be fun.

Vote: F-16

F-16 needs to show us his colors fast. Not going to let him live if he isn't active.

Also, Teddy feels like town for opening up the game.

I appreciate this, and I am aligned with the town. But would you mind explaining why you've casted your vote for F-16? Maybe I just don't understand, but it seems a bit hard to envisage him as mafia when he hasn't posted yet.
Geographia
Posts: 1,467
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2/26/2016 3:23:55 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 3:14:53 AM, TeddytheKid wrote:
At 2/26/2016 3:11:26 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
Exciting news. I got town. So this should be fun.

Vote: F-16

F-16 needs to show us his colors fast. Not going to let him live if he isn't active.

Also, Teddy feels like town for opening up the game.

I appreciate this, and I am aligned with the town. But would you mind explaining why you've casted your vote for F-16? Maybe I just don't understand, but it seems a bit hard to envisage him as mafia when he hasn't posted yet.

Generally on DDO, we start mafia games in a phase where we basically vote who ever for information.
TeddytheKid
Posts: 10
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2/26/2016 3:27:32 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 3:23:55 AM, Geographia wrote:
At 2/26/2016 3:14:53 AM, TeddytheKid wrote:
At 2/26/2016 3:11:26 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
Exciting news. I got town. So this should be fun.

Vote: F-16

F-16 needs to show us his colors fast. Not going to let him live if he isn't active.

Also, Teddy feels like town for opening up the game.

I appreciate this, and I am aligned with the town. But would you mind explaining why you've casted your vote for F-16? Maybe I just don't understand, but it seems a bit hard to envisage him as mafia when he hasn't posted yet.

Generally on DDO, we start mafia games in a phase where we basically vote who ever for information.

Thanks. That's an interesting convention that I wasn't aware of. But I have to ask: is there really any informational value in it (especially if most people, unlike myself, are aware that they're being voted almost randomly)?
Torton
Posts: 988
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2/26/2016 3:32:44 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 3:27:32 AM, TeddytheKid wrote:
At 2/26/2016 3:23:55 AM, Geographia wrote:
At 2/26/2016 3:14:53 AM, TeddytheKid wrote:
At 2/26/2016 3:11:26 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
Exciting news. I got town. So this should be fun.

Vote: F-16

F-16 needs to show us his colors fast. Not going to let him live if he isn't active.

Also, Teddy feels like town for opening up the game.

I appreciate this, and I am aligned with the town. But would you mind explaining why you've casted your vote for F-16? Maybe I just don't understand, but it seems a bit hard to envisage him as mafia when he hasn't posted yet.

Generally on DDO, we start mafia games in a phase where we basically vote who ever for information.

Thanks. That's an interesting convention that I wasn't aware of. But I have to ask: is there really any informational value in it (especially if most people, unlike myself, are aware that they're being voted almost randomly)?
As far as I'm aware, as an extension of what Geo said (and correct me if I'm wrong here), but it's used as a catalyst for anything significant. Basically kick starting the game.
TeddytheKid
Posts: 10
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2/26/2016 3:35:38 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 3:32:44 AM, Torton wrote:
At 2/26/2016 3:27:32 AM, TeddytheKid wrote:
At 2/26/2016 3:23:55 AM, Geographia wrote:
At 2/26/2016 3:14:53 AM, TeddytheKid wrote:
At 2/26/2016 3:11:26 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
Exciting news. I got town. So this should be fun.

Vote: F-16

F-16 needs to show us his colors fast. Not going to let him live if he isn't active.

Also, Teddy feels like town for opening up the game.

I appreciate this, and I am aligned with the town. But would you mind explaining why you've casted your vote for F-16? Maybe I just don't understand, but it seems a bit hard to envisage him as mafia when he hasn't posted yet.

Generally on DDO, we start mafia games in a phase where we basically vote who ever for information.

Thanks. That's an interesting convention that I wasn't aware of. But I have to ask: is there really any informational value in it (especially if most people, unlike myself, are aware that they're being voted almost randomly)?
As far as I'm aware, as an extension of what Geo said (and correct me if I'm wrong here), but it's used as a catalyst for anything significant. Basically kick starting the game.

I guess I see it like this: if I hadn't posted yet and came to find out that a more experienced player voted for me, it would indubitably affect my ability to play. I would sort of be in that "I'm walking on egg shells, people are watching my every move" phase. But that is probably, more than anything, a function of my inexperience. Surely a seasoned veteran would be better able to brush it off.
Sapphique
Posts: 4,119
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2/26/2016 3:41:18 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
VOTE COUNT

F-16 (2/5) - FT, Tenebris

Not voting: Famous, Geo, Obi, Torton, Teddy, F-16, Skep

Just another reminder to try limiting quote pyramids. They can get quite long and make the thread hard to read. Simply delete the parts that you aren't directly responding to if possible.
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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2/26/2016 3:57:21 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 3:11:26 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
Exciting news. I got town.

So am I. You don't have to worry about me. I intend to be pretty active this game.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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2/26/2016 4:04:36 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 3:35:38 AM, TeddytheKid wrote:

I guess I see it like this: if I hadn't posted yet and came to find out that a more experienced player voted for me, it would indubitably affect my ability to play. I would sort of be in that "I'm walking on egg shells, people are watching my every move" phase. But that is probably, more than anything, a function of my inexperience. Surely a seasoned veteran would be better able to brush it off.

People walking on eggshells and being uncomfortable actually makes it easier to read them i.e. figure out whether they are mafia. Mafia often tend to be more concerned with their own and their partners survival whereas town prioritize finding scum because it isn't enough to just survive, you have to lynch the right player. There are exceptions of course but that is the general case.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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2/26/2016 4:09:38 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
I have early townreads on Teddy and Tenebris.

Teddy seems more pro-active than the average new player although I want to know his exposure to mafia. Especially thought the inquisitive nature in post #5 (http://www.debate.org...) rang townish. I didn't like the attention he drew to his lack of experience but I don't think it outweighs the townish posts

Tenebris is a slightly weaker townread and based entirely on post #7 (http://www.debate.org...). He started scumhunting and throwing out reads at a time when that wasn't already happening. It's a weak read because the townread on Teddy was something FT had already pointed out. Null on FT this early in the game also makes sense. I also like that he wasn't hesitating to join a bandwagon on me.

Want to see some content from Geographia and Torton that isn't just explaining how the game works to the new guy. That's safe and non-alignment indicative. What are your reads?
Tenebris_Sanguinis
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2/26/2016 4:14:03 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 4:09:38 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I have early townreads on Teddy and Tenebris.



Tenebris is a slightly weaker townread and based entirely on post #7 (http://www.debate.org...). He started scumhunting and throwing out reads at a time when that wasn't already happening. It's a weak read because the townread on Teddy was something FT had already pointed out. Null on FT this early in the game also makes sense. I also like that he wasn't hesitating to join a bandwagon on me.


Town read on Teddy was based more on FT's response rather than Teddy's opening. I might be wrong, but I think FT's response points to Teddy more likely being town than not.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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2/26/2016 4:16:05 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 4:14:03 AM, Tenebris_Sanguinis wrote:
Town read on Teddy was based more on FT's response rather than Teddy's opening. I might be wrong, but I think FT's response points to Teddy more likely being town than not.

Why?
Tenebris_Sanguinis
Posts: 77
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2/26/2016 4:18:32 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 4:16:05 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/26/2016 4:14:03 AM, Tenebris_Sanguinis wrote:
Town read on Teddy was based more on FT's response rather than Teddy's opening. I might be wrong, but I think FT's response points to Teddy more likely being town than not.

Why?

This is based more on the fact that I might be more willing to put trust into more experienced players, but my logic is that if FT is town he is probably right, but if he was mafia I don't think he'd associate with mafia that is newer to the game.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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2/26/2016 4:26:38 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 4:18:32 AM, Tenebris_Sanguinis wrote:
This is based more on the fact that I might be more willing to put trust into more experienced players, but my logic is that if FT is town he is probably right, but if he was mafia I don't think he'd associate with mafia that is newer to the game.

Actually FT's area of skill as scum is to make counter-intuitive plays - ones that town don't think would come from scum so I could see him defending a partner. But I like your way of thinking here so that strengthens my townread.
Tenebris_Sanguinis
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2/26/2016 4:33:51 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 4:26:38 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/26/2016 4:18:32 AM, Tenebris_Sanguinis wrote:
This is based more on the fact that I might be more willing to put trust into more experienced players, but my logic is that if FT is town he is probably right, but if he was mafia I don't think he'd associate with mafia that is newer to the game.

Actually FT's area of skill as scum is to make counter-intuitive plays - ones that town don't think would come from scum so I could see him defending a partner. But I like your way of thinking here so that strengthens my townread.

Fair enough, I haven't the slightest clue about any of your guys' strengths so I'll trust your judgement.
TeddytheKid
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2/26/2016 4:35:20 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 4:04:36 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 2/26/2016 3:35:38 AM, TeddytheKid wrote:

I guess I see it like this: if I hadn't posted yet and came to find out that a more experienced player voted for me, it would indubitably affect my ability to play. I would sort of be in that "I'm walking on egg shells, people are watching my every move" phase. But that is probably, more than anything, a function of my inexperience. Surely a seasoned veteran would be better able to brush it off.

People walking on eggshells and being uncomfortable actually makes it easier to read them i.e. figure out whether they are mafia. Mafia often tend to be more concerned with their own and their partners survival whereas town prioritize finding scum because it isn't enough to just survive, you have to lynch the right player. There are exceptions of course but that is the general case.

This sounds reasonable, but my feeling is, still, that someone more experienced would probably be much better at "faking it," per se. But at least I now understand the reasoning behind it.
TeddytheKid
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2/26/2016 4:36:39 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 3:58:48 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Teddy - have you played mafia before on any other site or read mafia games?

I played a few games on Epic Mafia way back in the day, but not recently. I've also read bits and pieces of games on here back when I was in my "lurk phase" before joining.
Tenebris_Sanguinis
Posts: 77
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2/26/2016 4:39:05 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
F-16 posted a decent bit, vote on him is unneeded at this point and would rather move on.
Vote Geo

Assuming your still on (maybe not you did post an hour ago) I want to hear your thoughts/reads.
Torton
Posts: 988
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2/26/2016 4:39:43 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 4:09:38 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Want to see some content from Geographia and Torton that isn't just explaining how the game works to the new guy. That's safe and non-alignment indicative. What are your reads?
Well, I don't know Teddy's exact level of experience, but I imagine I'm in the same boat as him (pretty fresh in the water). I have read tvellaot's (and the mafia wiki's) guides, but not much else.

I understand the vote, but as far as the reads go, they're not exactly extensive. Even one sentence with justification would be better. Doesn't very well say much when it just seems like arbitrary inferences (at best).
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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2/26/2016 4:44:31 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 4:39:43 AM, Torton wrote:

I understand the vote, but as far as the reads go, they're not exactly extensive. Even one sentence with justification would be better. Doesn't very well say much when it just seems like arbitrary inferences (at best).

Whose vote are you talking about?

If you think one sentence with justification is good, then go ahead. Post one sentence with justification for your reads.

A lot of early reads are arbitrary and playstyle based but that's how we advance the state of the game and develop more concrete reads.
Tenebris_Sanguinis
Posts: 77
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2/26/2016 4:45:32 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 4:39:43 AM, Torton wrote:

I understand the vote, but as far as the reads go, they're not exactly extensive. Even one sentence with justification would be better. Doesn't very well say much when it just seems like arbitrary inferences (at best).

What are these arbitrary inferences?
Torton
Posts: 988
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2/26/2016 4:48:46 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 4:39:43 AM, Torton wrote:
At 2/26/2016 4:09:38 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Want to see some content from Geographia and Torton that isn't just explaining how the game works to the new guy. That's safe and non-alignment indicative. What are your reads?
Well, I don't know Teddy's exact level of experience, but I imagine I'm in the same boat as him (pretty fresh in the water). I have read tvellaot's (and the mafia wiki's) guides, but not much else.

I understand the vote, but as far as the reads go, they're not exactly extensive. Even one sentence with justification would be better. Doesn't very well say much when it just seems like arbitrary inferences (at best).
Sorry for the late response, btw. I've got my nephew here, and my internet is being terrible as always.
Geographia
Posts: 1,467
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2/26/2016 4:50:05 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 4:39:05 AM, Tenebris_Sanguinis wrote:
F-16 posted a decent bit, vote on him is unneeded at this point and would rather move on.
Vote Geo

Assuming your still on (maybe not you did post an hour ago) I want to hear your thoughts/reads.

I don't like posting reads 3 pages in. Everyone is hard as fvck to read.
Geographia
Posts: 1,467
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2/26/2016 4:50:46 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/26/2016 4:50:05 AM, Geographia wrote:
At 2/26/2016 4:39:05 AM, Tenebris_Sanguinis wrote:
F-16 posted a decent bit, vote on him is unneeded at this point and would rather move on.
Vote Geo

Assuming your still on (maybe not you did post an hour ago) I want to hear your thoughts/reads.

I don't like posting reads 3 pages in. Everyone is hard as fvck to read.

I must be tired. Not even page 2.