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Beginner's Mafia 45.2: DP4

Vaarka
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4/27/2016 4:23:55 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
LYNCHED LAST DP

Breakingamber - You are Merida. Your father gave you a bow and arrows for your birthday, and you've spent countless hours in the woods practicing until your aim is impeccable. You're able to stalk your prey, watching the animals in silence beyond your bowstring. Thus, you are the Stalker. Each night you may select another player. You will learn their role (but not affiliation). You win with the Mafia.

DIED IN THE NIGHT

Opsianos - You are Cinderella. After your father died, you were mistreated by your stepmother and stepsisters and forced to do housework. Only the magic of your Fairy Godmother enabled you to go to the ball and meet the Prince. For having such little independent power, you are a Vanilla. You have no abilities. You win with the Town.

GRAVEYARD

Flex - Tiana - Miller - Town
VoT - Aurora - Vanilla - Town
Mb8 - Ariel - Cop (naive) - Town
Amber - Merida - Stalker - Mafia
Opsi - Cinderella - Vanilla - Town

LIVING PLAYERS

1. famousdebater
2. XLAV
3. The_Great_Amalgam
4. bsh1

With 4 players alive, it takes 3 votes to lynch.
The DP ends in 72 hours, or at 12:15 am, EST, on 4/30/16.
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
ButterCatX: "No, Vaarka is mine!"

All hail scum Vaarka, wielder of the bastard sword, smiter of nations, destroyer of spiders -VOT

"Vaarka, I've been thinking about this for a long time now," (pulls out small box made of macaroni) "W-will you be my noodle buddy?" -Kirigaya
Vaarka
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4/27/2016 4:24:36 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
VOTE COUNT

Not voting: Everone

If you believe I have made a mistake, let me know and I will recount.
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

inferno: "I don't know, are you attracted to women?"
ButterCatX: "No, Vaarka is mine!"

All hail scum Vaarka, wielder of the bastard sword, smiter of nations, destroyer of spiders -VOT

"Vaarka, I've been thinking about this for a long time now," (pulls out small box made of macaroni) "W-will you be my noodle buddy?" -Kirigaya
The_Great_Amalgam
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4/27/2016 4:33:33 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
The final round of the game, we have one scum already dead and just one more to go. Before I began I need to write this down. Whatever you do, DO NOT VOTE YET! Scum could easily end this game in a mislynch with one fatal flaw. There are 4 of us left, and one of us is scum. For these post I will be going over who I think is scum and why. I will be going over XLAV (Mulan), because Ops was killed.

First of all, we can't play meta game that much here because he wasn't in the first game of the Beginners Tournament #45, but we need to keep in mind that he is a very good player. Though he doesn't think himself that good, he is part of the 3rd Mafia Championship League, representing DDO as a whole. A scum slip wouldn't be likely from him, nor would such a obvious case against him be. Now then let us look at DP1.

DP1:

At post #4, he claims he is town very nonchalantly almost as if it didn't matter. Breaking tried to get TheFlex to be lynched because he wanted the Miller to be dead. He never mentioned the fact that XLAV claimed town at the time. Also, as we already know, XLAV more or less bandwagon with Amber, who is confirmed scum now. XLAV even latter admitted that he didn't really even read TheFlex's post.

Also side note, XLAV, when I post on my phone I can still use bold and italics, but just in the forums. You could also just write down the commands for it, not that hard actually. Anyway back onto DP1.

XLAV doesn't post that many things that could be considered scummy till post #206. He says this.

At 4/17/2016 5:40:39 PM, XLAV wrote:

Because he cc'd you? Lol.

Even without the CC, Break is still more townier than you.

Remember how I said that XLAV didn't even read what TheFlex said, look at this. Why would Break look more townier then TheFlex, when he didn't even read his post? It wouldn't make sense. Besides at that point, TheFlex had posted way more comments then Break. Also XLAV claims that he has played with Break before and that he one time instantly knew he was scum from one post. Then in this game, Breaking miraculously got so much better, that he didn't suspect him at all in the first DP. What I'm trying to say is this, I think XLAV might be helping Breaking in this game. I'll get more to this at the end.

There is some parts that we can skip, including him claiming that I was TheFlex's scum buddy, but he later dropped that. One thing is that XLAV seemed to continuously ignore TheFlexes post and at the same time Amber rarely ever post a thing. This ends the post from XLAV from DP1.

The results from DP1: Scummy

DP2:

At post #75, even after it turned out that Amber was lying about being scum, he still believed they were town. He says that he only voted for TheFlex was because he didn't think there could be more then one Miller. He said that even if he knew that there could be, he still would have VTL'd TheFlex. A lot of buddying is coming from him now. Post #95 is the most important though.

At 4/20/2016 5:20:12 AM, XLAV wrote:

I read break's post. Town read him. Saw the cc. Didn't bother to read through Flex's posts thoroughly.

Remember this post?

At 4/17/2016 5:40:39 PM, XLAV wrote:

Because he cc'd you? Lol.

Even without the CC, Break is still more townier than you.

So if we were to remove the CC this is what we would have gotten.

At 4/20/2016 5:20:12 AM, Alternate_Universe_XLAV wrote:

I read break's post. Town read him. Didn't bother to read through Flex's posts thoroughly.

This doesn't even make sense one bit. He contradicted himself very early in the game. In the next page he said this as well.

At 4/20/2016 5:25:34 AM, XLAV wrote:

Because I already town read Break and with the CC, I automatically assumed Flex scum.

Once again if you get rid of the CC you would get this.

At 4/20/2016 5:25:34 AM, Alternate_Universe_XLAV wrote:

Because I already town read Break, I automatically assumed Flex scum.

See how this doesn't make sense. He eventually claims that since he is the only one defending Break, then he is the most likely to be town. For the most part, XLAV is mainly just defending himself and nothing really is that scummy till post #190.

At 4/21/2016 1:12:46 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 4/21/2016 1:10:48 AM, The_Great_Amalgam (who felt ashamed falling for it) wrote:

The post of Breaking showing his claim looks legit, so now I doubt there is a Jester, there might not even be a third party this game.
Of course its legit. Breaking is town, stupid, but town.

And as much as possible, don't focus too much on 3rd parties. Just focus on finding scum (scum = anyone not town).

The fact is that the post wasn't that legit, in fact it kinda of is false. Breaking says that Snow White was kidnapped all the time, while in fact she actually was never really kidnapped, she escaped it every time. Even when asleep, she was still in the Dwarves care. Also take notice how this is post 190. He is still being kind to Break. Now look at post #199.

At 4/21/2016 1:23:03 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 4/21/2016 1:20:28 AM, breakingamber wrote:

VoT did this to me in an earlier game. Then he(she?) lynched me for it.

Nuh uh.

You already lead a stupid lynch on a townie.
Don't be stupid and lynch another one.

I'm literally the only one who's defending your @ss right now and if I'm lynched, these noobs will lynch you next.

It seems really weirdly written to me, and also odd how his tone with Break changed in 9 post. But after this, I see less and less of scumish post from XLAV. Break does give us this information.

At 4/21/2016 1:49:35 AM, breakingamber wrote:

This is ridiculous. We have a scumteam already: XLAV and Troll. Maybe.

We should not lynch the inactives, even though I hate inactivity.

It is rather obvious that this means something else. In a couple post later, Break tries to get the attention back to XLAV, which wouldn't make since for scum to do to another. That would be busing, even though it would give them good town cred, it could end poorly. At post #229, XLAV claims that the scum team are the inactives. Also when I suggested to lynch VoT instead, XLAV gladly bandwagon with me, even though I didn't give any evidence at all.

Then Bsh comes up with sound logic, Break never tried to persuade you guys, he just CC'd. For some reason to you, without even proving anything you instantly latch onto the person who CC'd. It was a rather idiotic move from all of you who voted for TheFlex, and XLAV still believed that Breaking was scum. We then reach post #276, which is the motherload of a problem.

At 4/21/2016 6:16:17 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 4/21/2016 4:19:34 AM, The_Great_Amalgam wrote:

The only reason why I think Breaking is townie now is because of his character and role claim about two pages ago. It seemed too legit for it to be fake.

Though I'm glad you town read him, that is a horrible reason to town read someone. Trust behavior analysis over theme and role analysis.

I believe I am reading this rightly, please correct me if I'm wrong, but this comes off as complete hypocritical logic. You all probably remember this quote.

At 4/20/2016 5:20:12 AM, XLAV wrote:

I read break's post. Town read him. Saw the cc. Didn't bother to read through Flex's posts thoroughly.

How can we trust your behavior and your analysis if you yourself didn't do that either with TheFlex in DP1!

Result from DP2: Scum

DP3:

XLAV admits that he hasn't been trying that hard and is now going to reread everyone. This seems to be town. Though in DP3, XLAV tries to extremely push for Famous to claim their role, in a rather odd way. XLAV really wants to get Famous to admit the claim, in a way that a town honestly would in MYLO. We have no choice but to be as harsh as possible. More in next post.
The_Great_Amalgam
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4/27/2016 4:34:42 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Post Number 2 starts now. We can't risk the possible death of a town. XLAV then brings up a good point that Amber is trying to hard to distance themselves from Troll. I'll talk about this later.

He also claims as being mimic and Mulan. This makes absolutely sense. Even if it seems to be overpowered, keep in mind that it took us to DP3 to kill one scum, and they managed to kill one person during the NP2. As I have said a lot, Mulan mimics her fathers place. This could be similar to what Break did, but this seems a lot more accurate. XLAV then claims that Famous is buddying me a lot, but then drops it. This could definitely be what a townie would say, so not that scumish.

And that is really it, XLAV has to then leave for the Championship Mafia Tournament.

Results from DP3: Town

All Together: Sadly either Town or Scum

Why do I think this, we'll look at it like this, XLAV could most likely taught Amber how to a better Mafia player near the beginning, but knew that he had to cut all ties from him during DP3. Yet, XLAV has been trying to help town in a lot of ways. I can't read him that well, I hope you all can though.

I will no be heading to bed. I had a lot more to write down, but my thought to be scum was killed.
The_Great_Amalgam
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4/27/2016 4:37:58 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Also I just realized I am the only noob left in the game alive. Lol.

Bsh is most definitely town, Famous I thought was town but now might be scum, and same goes for XLAV.

Good luck everyone. We need it.
bsh1
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4/27/2016 4:46:49 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
I am skeptical that there is a doc or a mimic.

If the bodyguard targets the doc, and the doc targets the bodyguard, they form an unkillable loop. You can't kill the doc because you'd be redirected to the bodyguard, but you can kill the bodyguard either because they're doc'd. That would be unfair to mafia.

If there is a town mimic, that would be even more unfair to mafia because they could gather either protective role.

Famous, who did you target?
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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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bsh1
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4/27/2016 4:47:06 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
NO ONE VOTE ANYONE ELSE

Thanks.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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The_Great_Amalgam
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4/27/2016 4:54:40 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 4:46:49 AM, bsh1 wrote:
I am skeptical that there is a doc or a mimic.

If the bodyguard targets the doc, and the doc targets the bodyguard, they form an unkillable loop. You can't kill the doc because you'd be redirected to the bodyguard, but you can kill the bodyguard either because they're doc'd. That would be unfair to mafia.

If there is a town mimic, that would be even more unfair to mafia because they could gather either protective role.

Famous, who did you target?

There is also a reasonable way for how they knew you were a bodyguard. They have a stalker. XLAV could be lying about being a Mimic. Unfortunately, it doesn't make sense for their to be a doctor and a bodyguard. Think they have a roleblocker?
bsh1
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4/27/2016 4:55:17 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 4:54:40 AM, The_Great_Amalgam wrote:
At 4/27/2016 4:46:49 AM, bsh1 wrote:
I am skeptical that there is a doc or a mimic.

If the bodyguard targets the doc, and the doc targets the bodyguard, they form an unkillable loop. You can't kill the doc because you'd be redirected to the bodyguard, but you can kill the bodyguard either because they're doc'd. That would be unfair to mafia.

If there is a town mimic, that would be even more unfair to mafia because they could gather either protective role.

Famous, who did you target?

There is also a reasonable way for how they knew you were a bodyguard. They have a stalker. XLAV could be lying about being a Mimic. Unfortunately, it doesn't make sense for their to be a doctor and a bodyguard. Think they have a roleblocker?

A role cop is more likely than a stalker.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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4/27/2016 4:55:57 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Nvm...the stalker term confused me. I thought they meant scout.
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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4/27/2016 5:02:19 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 4:30:33 AM, The_Great_Amalgam wrote:

Can you repost the claims list with character claims?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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The_Great_Amalgam
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4/27/2016 5:11:26 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 5:02:19 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 4/27/2016 4:30:33 AM, The_Great_Amalgam wrote:

Can you repost the claims list with character claims?

You mean this?

XLAV: Mulan - (Mimic-Bodyguard)
Amber (Dead): - Merida (Stalker)
VoT (dead): Aurora - Vanilla
missbailey (dead): Ariel - Naive cop
famous: Rapunzel - Doctor
Flex (dead): Tiana - Miller
bsh: Pocohantas - Bodyguard
Amalgam: Belle - Super Saint
Trollord (now Opsianos) (Dead): Cinderella - Vanilla

Without the deceased corpse in the way:

XLAV: Mulan - Mimic (Bodyguard)
Famous: Rapunzel - Doctor
Bsh: Pocohantas - Bodyguard
Amalgam: Belle - Super Saint
bsh1
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4/27/2016 5:17:50 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Known for Sure

Flex - Tiana, Miller - Town
Voice - Aurora, Vanilla - Town
Miss - Ariel, Cop (naive) - Town
Breaking - Merida, Stalker - Mafia
Ops - Cinderella, Vanilla - Town

Claimed

XLAV - Mulan, Mimic
Famous - Rapunzel, Doctor
bsh - Pocohantas, Bodyguard
Amalgam - Belle, Super Saint

===================

Mechanical Analysis

Let's look again at the mechanics of the game.

Two players are also unkillable with the bodyguard and the doctor, as I noted in my first post in this DP. This essentially means that, if all else holds true, and if mafia does not have a roleblocker, 50% of players cannot be killed.

Plus, if we add a third doctor to the mix, which we gain from the mimic, we create an unkillable trifecta. XLAV docs me. I bodyguard Famous. Famous docs XLAV. Suddenly, all 3 of us are unkillable. I absolutely do not buy that Saph and Vaar would have created a game with that dynamic, because it is so totally unbalanced.

Either XLAV or Famous is scum. We have a 50-50 shot of being right.

Thematic Analysis

I went through and googled each Disney princess. All of them are cartoons that are drawn (think Tom and Jerry) except Merida and Rapunzel. Both of these are digitally animated. This may be nothing, but Merida was scum. It is possible that the differentiation between town and scum is digital vs. non-digital animation. Rapunzel and Merida are also the newest Disney Princesses.

This is something to keep in mind moving forward.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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4/27/2016 5:19:08 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
I want to re-read DP2 before I vote for anyone.
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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bsh1
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4/27/2016 5:22:16 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Actually, a mimic-bodyguard combination may make more sense balance wise, depending...let me ask Vaar.
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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4/27/2016 5:23:48 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 4:24:36 AM, Vaarka wrote:

Hi.

So...conundrum time...

Suppose we have two bodyguards (X and Y) and a mafia (Z). X and Y target each other, but Z target X for an NK.

Who, if anyone, dies in this scenario?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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4/27/2016 5:25:20 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 4:24:36 AM, Vaarka wrote:

You would inform people if their actions failed, correct?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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The_Great_Amalgam
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4/27/2016 5:29:34 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 5:19:44 AM, XLAV wrote:
Omgggg so many tl;dr posts

Sorry bout that. I'll have a Tl;Dr in around 9 hours, I got to sleep soon.

The 2d and 3d argument does sound very strong though. I really like it.
Sapphique
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4/27/2016 5:37:28 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 5:23:48 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 4/27/2016 4:24:36 AM, Vaarka wrote:

Hi.

So...conundrum time...

Suppose we have two bodyguards (X and Y) and a mafia (Z). X and Y target each other, but Z target X for an NK.

Who, if anyone, dies in this scenario?

Y would die in this case because X was the target of the lethal action.
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
bsh1
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4/27/2016 5:38:50 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 5:37:28 AM, Sapphique wrote:
At 4/27/2016 5:23:48 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 4/27/2016 4:24:36 AM, Vaarka wrote:

Hi.

So...conundrum time...

Suppose we have two bodyguards (X and Y) and a mafia (Z). X and Y target each other, but Z target X for an NK.

Who, if anyone, dies in this scenario?

Y would die in this case because X was the target of the lethal action.

Thanks. Okay, so 1 bodyguard and 1 mimic is more balanced than 1 bodyguard and 1 doc.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Sapphique
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4/27/2016 5:41:43 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 5:25:20 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 4/27/2016 4:24:36 AM, Vaarka wrote:

You would inform people if their actions failed, correct?

Yes.
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
bsh1
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4/27/2016 5:42:29 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 5:29:34 AM, The_Great_Amalgam wrote:

In 10 sentences or less, who do you want to lynch and why?
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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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XLAV
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4/27/2016 5:49:43 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 5:42:29 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 4/27/2016 5:29:34 AM, The_Great_Amalgam wrote:

In 10 sentences or less, who do you want to lynch and why?

Even better, just tell us who you want to lynch. Enough with this ten sentences bullshtt
The_Great_Amalgam
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4/27/2016 5:51:42 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 5:42:29 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 4/27/2016 5:29:34 AM, The_Great_Amalgam wrote:

In 10 sentences or less, who do you want to lynch and why?

Right now I want to lynch XLAV because of his scummy attitude in DP1. His entire reasoning on VTLing Flex doesn't make a single bit of sense at all. He also seems to not care for the game at points and is just merely scimming over it.
XLAV
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4/27/2016 5:52:04 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/27/2016 5:29:34 AM, The_Great_Amalgam wrote:
At 4/27/2016 5:19:44 AM, XLAV wrote:
Omgggg so many tl;dr posts

Sorry bout that. I'll have a Tl;Dr in around 9 hours, I got to sleep soon.

The 2d and 3d argument does sound very strong though. I really like it.

I dont need more of your posts.
What I need is your vote on Famous.