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ACM - End Game

Danielle
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8/9/2016 11:34:48 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
Day Phase 4 was definitively going to end in a No Lynch, so...

[ Day Phase 5 ]

== Deceased Players ==

Roukezian 1 (town Vigilante)
ShabShoral1 (town Sensor)
Geographia (town JOAT)
ShabShoral2 (town Developer)
headphonegut (town JOAT)
lannan13 (town Jailkeeper)

Matt: You are a town Tracker. Each night you may follow another player to see whom they visited during the night phase. You win with the town.

== Living Players ==

01. Cobalt (town Tree Stump)
02. Skepsikyma (mafia JOAT)
03. Roukezian 2 (town Super Saint)
04. Udel (mafia Doctor)
05. bsh1 (town Watcher)
06. ford_prefect (mafia Politician)
07. Disciplus (town Role Cop)
08. VelCrow (town Mason Recruiter)
09. TGAP (mafia Godfather)

You would need 5 votes to carry out a lynch. The mafia has 5 votes.

WINNERS: Mafia
LOSERS: Town

Night Actions: https://docs.google.com...

== Notes ==

I'm pretty sure the mafia has won every single game I've ever hosted.

With that in mind, I "overpowered" the town and yet the mafia still won.

But I actually thought the game was perfectly balanced (sure, no bias here...)

== Set Up ==

There were no Vanillas in this game which left it open for the mafia to claim. I also wanted to have a straight forward game of town/mafia with no third party players. I kept the ratio 4:1 which is standard.

I thought three JOATs was interesting as JOATs are powerful, yet the threat of counter-claims could cause a townie mislynch or even two.

There was no Cop in this game. Instead there was a Role Cop, some cop abilities through JOATs and the Developer, and a Mason Recruiter whose recruit served as an investigation of sorts. The Godfather could be recruited by the Mason Recruiter as he appeared innocent to alignment investigations, and the MR could only recruit those aligned with town (or die).

I used a mafia Doctor and mafia Politician thinking both of those players could claim their real roles, and the Role Cop could verify them if they claimed their real roles. The Role Cop would see the mafia JOAT but not know that it was mafia-aligned. The Role Cop would be able to see "Godfather" though, so there was a weakness to the GF role, even though he would be investigated innocent to all other alignment probes.

In terms of town roles, Watcher and Tracker are pretty bold claims that are usually not mislynched, so I thought that was a town benefit. Tree Stump, Developer, Sensor, Jailkeeper and Super Saint are questionable claims, which I thought would offset the powerful Mason Recruiter role (which not only serves as an investigation, but has the power to confirm multiple people).

I tried to set it up so that even if the mafia lost 1-2 players, they would still stand a chance and could win from different angles. Yet I gave the town a lot of investigative (and a few killing) powers. I expected at least 2 people to be vigged at night by either the vigilante or JOAT.

== MVP ==

The entire mafia

Udel was scum read early on, but his analysis in the mafia PM saved them a few times (people were pushing him to fake claim; he would have been called out by the Role Cop if he had). He made some good guesses, but had a close call in being scum read early on. By the end, he was the only mafioso who was NOT scum read. But TGAP and Skep were town read by nearly everyone all game. Ford also went under the radar, but not because he was inactive. I think he just played really well. The mafia team had some good strategy and did a good job. I believe they would have won even if they hadn't had a Politician or outed themselves on DP4.

== Final Notes ==

The reason I let DP4 go up was because technically if the town/mafia decided to lynch Rou2 (for whatever reason) the game would have continued. For his Super Saint role, he would have taken down the last person to cast his lynch vote.

Cobalt was a tree stump. If he was killed at night, he could still talk in the day phase (but his vote wouldn't count). I'm surprised Rou and Cobalt got by all game without role claiming. That probably saved them.

I had a lot of fun modding this game. What are your thoughts? Any questions?
President of DDO
Discipulus_Didicit
Posts: 3,089
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8/9/2016 11:43:30 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
Called skep as scum early DP2 and TGAP about two thirds through DP3. Mentioned in my mason PM when I had one that udels doctor role definately did not clear him due to multi-vig roles. Ford I never suspected, and I thought bsh was scum because of his refusal to out any results of any kind for the town even after skep outted his role.
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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8/9/2016 11:43:42 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
In the Mafia PM, before the game started, this is what I said:

"We have a politician. Autowin."

And

"So we can win this game on DP4, if we play our cards right."


I think this was a great game. I liked the design and you put an interesting twist on some common concepts. I'm not sure I'd call all of the roles "classic" but I can understand mixing things up a bit.

For Town, I felt that Cobalt and bsh1 did really well in the early day phases, but Cobalt kind of petered off and bsh1 I think was analyzing things a bit too deeply.

VelCrow was doing great but I think he (and the rest of the masons) probably got a bit too confident in their confirmations and DD with his code.

And Rou, Rou. My advice to you is to look back on this game and look at how you approached things and where you can improve on that. You took things too personally and were too intransigent about the state of the game. Everything I said to you with respect to mafia advice was true. When you are playing so extremely that even scum has to stop to try and help you out, you need to reconsider your play style.
TheGreatAndPowerful
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8/9/2016 11:44:30 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/9/2016 11:43:30 AM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
Called skep as scum early DP2 and TGAP about two thirds through DP3.

Yeah, the problem is that 2/3rds through DP3 was too late for Town, though you didn't know it.
Discipulus_Didicit
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8/9/2016 11:47:04 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/9/2016 11:44:30 AM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 8/9/2016 11:43:30 AM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
Called skep as scum early DP2 and TGAP about two thirds through DP3.

Yeah, the problem is that 2/3rds through DP3 was too late for Town, though you didn't know it.

That is true.
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
Discipulus_Didicit
Posts: 3,089
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8/9/2016 11:51:34 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
DP1 and DP2 were to be expected, both those mislynches were acting scummy at the time they were lynched. DP3 is when things got stupid.
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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8/9/2016 11:51:54 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
I'll work on seeing if I can get the Mafia PM imaged up, but I'll recap our strategy.

Our strategy, all along, was to keep ford alive, unFOSed till he could use his politician vote for the win, since it autowins for the Mafia at MYLO (barring things like governer, super saint, hunter, etc.) Udel would protect Ford at night and we would keep attention on the rest of us during the day.

DP1 and DP2 were basically handed to us. Interestingly, it might have gone better for us if Rou1 and Geo lived, given that they both had threatened to vig Townies.

During DP3, things started going off the rails a bit, and we had to take some risks. As a Townie, I would have 100% lynched Skep. No ifs, ands or buts. That would have made things harder for us. Honestly, I just put forth convincing BS as to why I would stay on HPG and was hoping for a forced NL. Amazing, HPG got lynched.

DP4, game was already over (save Rou's ability). By this time we had decided to just not even deal with Cobalt and Rou. If they had active abilities to hamper us, they would have used them and it was just too much of a risk to target them at night. So we left them alone and focused on the people that claimed. I know we failed miserably, but Danielle did want us to try and play the game normally rather than just out ourselves as maf. But it's hard when victory is all but assured.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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8/9/2016 11:53:39 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/9/2016 11:43:42 AM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
"So we can win this game on DP4, if we play our cards right."

True, but a few things could have gone awry. For one thing Udel was scum read on day phase 1 (for no reason lol to be fair). For another, what if Ford had to claim? You, Skep and Ford weren't pressured, but if you had to come up with a fake claim, things could have been different. If Ford was killed, you wouldn't have been able to do what you guys did at the end (or suppose he was role copped - which he was on NP3). Skep is the only one who claimed and it almost cost you guys a lynch. So there was still some room for error ;)

I think this was a great game. I liked the design and you put an interesting twist on some common concepts. I'm not sure I'd call all of the roles "classic" but I can understand mixing things up a bit.

Thanks! I really enjoyed modding this one. I think it turned out well. And by Classic I just meant no theme :) But I also prefer classic style games with no crazy (unreasonable) twists. I'm not a fan of bastard modding.
President of DDO
TheGreatAndPowerful
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8/9/2016 11:54:48 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/9/2016 11:53:39 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 8/9/2016 11:43:42 AM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
"So we can win this game on DP4, if we play our cards right."

True, but a few things could have gone awry. For one thing Udel was scum read on day phase 1 (for no reason lol to be fair). For another, what if Ford had to claim? You, Skep and Ford weren't pressured, but if you had to come up with a fake claim, things could have been different. If Ford was killed, you wouldn't have been able to do what you guys did at the end (or suppose he was role copped - which he was on NP3). Skep is the only one who claimed and it almost cost you guys a lynch. So there was still some room for error ;)

That's all true, but you gotta think positive!

I think this was a great game. I liked the design and you put an interesting twist on some common concepts. I'm not sure I'd call all of the roles "classic" but I can understand mixing things up a bit.

Thanks! I really enjoyed modding this one. I think it turned out well. And by Classic I just meant no theme :) But I also prefer classic style games with no crazy (unreasonable) twists. I'm not a fan of bastard modding.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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8/9/2016 11:56:18 AM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/9/2016 11:51:34 AM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
DP1 and DP2 were to be expected, both those mislynches were acting scummy at the time they were lynched. DP3 is when things got stupid.

Agree. I knew from the start that both JOATs were going to be lynched once I saw who got those roles (Geographia and headphonegut).

But they both played really poorly. Especially headphonegut. Geographia has an interesting meta (apathetic).
President of DDO
Discipulus_Didicit
Posts: 3,089
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8/9/2016 12:01:43 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/9/2016 11:56:18 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 8/9/2016 11:51:34 AM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
DP1 and DP2 were to be expected, both those mislynches were acting scummy at the time they were lynched. DP3 is when things got stupid.

Agree. I knew from the start that both JOATs were going to be lynched once I saw who got those roles (Geographia and headphonegut).

But they both played really poorly. Especially headphonegut. Geographia has an interesting meta (apathetic).

I wonder why HPG just claimed out of nowhere. Or why rouk gained about 150 IQ points the moment I CC'd skep. Both of those things seemed odd at the time.
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
MattTheDreamer
Posts: 1,395
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8/9/2016 12:34:06 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
Yeah DP3 was absolute nonsense, which would've been entirely fixed if HPG had been more active than not at all.
VelCrow
Posts: 1,273
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8/9/2016 12:35:26 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/9/2016 12:01:43 PM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
At 8/9/2016 11:56:18 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 8/9/2016 11:51:34 AM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
DP1 and DP2 were to be expected, both those mislynches were acting scummy at the time they were lynched. DP3 is when things got stupid.

Agree. I knew from the start that both JOATs were going to be lynched once I saw who got those roles (Geographia and headphonegut).

But they both played really poorly. Especially headphonegut. Geographia has an interesting meta (apathetic).

I wonder why HPG just claimed out of nowhere. Or why rouk gained about 150 IQ points the moment I CC'd skep. Both of those things seemed odd at the time.

OK someone has to spell it out for me. How did skep get the exact same report as DD
"Ah....So when god "Taught you" online, did he have a user name like "Darthmaulrules1337", and did he talk in all caps?" ~ Axonly

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Discipulus_Didicit
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8/9/2016 12:39:13 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/9/2016 12:35:26 PM, VelCrow wrote:
OK someone has to spell it out for me. How did skep get the exact same report as DD

Skep wanted everyone to know that udel was a doc, so for that reason he claimed udel as his NP1 investigation. The fact that I also visited Udel was a coincidence.

Skep was a joat with 1x role cop ability, he used it NP2 on bsh. The fact that I also targeted bsh was a coincidence.
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
VelCrow
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8/9/2016 12:46:53 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/9/2016 12:39:13 PM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
At 8/9/2016 12:35:26 PM, VelCrow wrote:
OK someone has to spell it out for me. How did skep get the exact same report as DD

Skep wanted everyone to know that udel was a doc, so for that reason he claimed udel as his NP1 investigation. The fact that I also visited Udel was a coincidence.

Skep was a joat with 1x role cop ability, he used it NP2 on bsh. The fact that I also targeted bsh was a coincidence.

damnit lol. i was expecting an informant or sumfink.
"Ah....So when god "Taught you" online, did he have a user name like "Darthmaulrules1337", and did he talk in all caps?" ~ Axonly

http://www.debate.org...
Discipulus_Didicit
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8/9/2016 12:47:49 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/9/2016 12:39:13 PM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
At 8/9/2016 12:35:26 PM, VelCrow wrote:
OK someone has to spell it out for me. How did skep get the exact same report as DD

Skep wanted everyone to know that udel was a doc, so for that reason he claimed udel as his NP1 investigation. The fact that I visited Udel was a coincidence.

Skep was a joat with 1x role cop ability, he used it NP2 on bsh. The fact that I also targeted bsh was a coincidence.

Fixed
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
VelCrow
Posts: 1,273
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8/9/2016 12:51:28 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/9/2016 11:56:18 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 8/9/2016 11:51:34 AM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
DP1 and DP2 were to be expected, both those mislynches were acting scummy at the time they were lynched. DP3 is when things got stupid.

Agree. I knew from the start that both JOATs were going to be lynched once I saw who got those roles (Geographia and headphonegut).

But they both played really poorly. Especially headphonegut. Geographia has an interesting meta (apathetic).

i still cant believe they derailed a skep lynch DP3 XD.
"Ah....So when god "Taught you" online, did he have a user name like "Darthmaulrules1337", and did he talk in all caps?" ~ Axonly

http://www.debate.org...
TheGreatAndPowerful
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8/9/2016 1:07:55 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/9/2016 12:51:28 PM, VelCrow wrote:
At 8/9/2016 11:56:18 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 8/9/2016 11:51:34 AM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
DP1 and DP2 were to be expected, both those mislynches were acting scummy at the time they were lynched. DP3 is when things got stupid.

Agree. I knew from the start that both JOATs were going to be lynched once I saw who got those roles (Geographia and headphonegut).

But they both played really poorly. Especially headphonegut. Geographia has an interesting meta (apathetic).

i still cant believe they derailed a skep lynch DP3 XD.

Well, you did hammer on HPG.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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8/9/2016 1:48:44 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
So much fun guys, thanks for modding the game Danielle. DP3 was a bit harrowing, but we managed to pull it off.

My advice to DD is to be a bit more diplomatic as town; I feel that a lot of the tension between he and bsh1 was caused ultimately by demeanor rather than genuine scumreads, and we used that tension to drive a wedge through town. We did get lucky in some ways; Udel being investigated by a rolecop was a HUGE boon to us.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
VelCrow
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8/9/2016 2:00:12 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/9/2016 1:07:55 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 8/9/2016 12:51:28 PM, VelCrow wrote:
At 8/9/2016 11:56:18 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 8/9/2016 11:51:34 AM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
DP1 and DP2 were to be expected, both those mislynches were acting scummy at the time they were lynched. DP3 is when things got stupid.

Agree. I knew from the start that both JOATs were going to be lynched once I saw who got those roles (Geographia and headphonegut).

But they both played really poorly. Especially headphonegut. Geographia has an interesting meta (apathetic).

i still cant believe they derailed a skep lynch DP3 XD.

Well, you did hammer on HPG.

well. like i said. i rather lose with lurk town then lose to lurk maf.
"Ah....So when god "Taught you" online, did he have a user name like "Darthmaulrules1337", and did he talk in all caps?" ~ Axonly

http://www.debate.org...
Discipulus_Didicit
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8/9/2016 2:12:05 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/9/2016 2:00:12 PM, VelCrow wrote:

I think I gave a good RFD for my vote on HPG. IIRC it was something along the lines of 'screw this ADHD town' or something. Then again I was also the 8th or 9th person to vote out of 7 votes needed so I am not sure if my vote really counted, philosophically speaking.
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,138
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8/9/2016 2:19:09 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
GG all, and thanks Danielle for modding.

I take pride in this win not only because we didn't lose a single mafia member, but also because I successfully implanted cult paranoia in at least one or two minds :)

I would say role-wise, this game was imbalanced in favor of town. But most of the veteran players ended up on the scum team, which ultimately counted for more. The DP3 HPG lynch over Skep was the turning point. That should never have happened, but we gladly took advantage of it.

Oh and for the record, I was planning on claiming vanilla if pressured. The reasoning being that I wasn't going to be visiting anyone until the game was essentially in the bag, so I wouldn't fear trackers/watchers. This would of course have caused issues if I was rolecopped after claiming vanilla. Fortunately it never came to that.
Discipulus_Didicit
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8/9/2016 2:35:27 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/9/2016 1:48:44 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
So much fun guys, thanks for modding the game Danielle. DP3 was a bit harrowing, but we managed to pull it off.

My advice to DD is to be a bit more diplomatic as town; I feel that a lot of the tension between he and bsh1 was caused ultimately by demeanor rather than genuine scumreads, and we used that tension to drive a wedge through town. We did get lucky in some ways; Udel being investigated by a rolecop was a HUGE boon to us.

I scum read bsh longer than I scum read tgap tbh.

Bsh asking over and over the same question that I gave the same answer to over and over combined with his refusal to give the town any information from his role even after you outted his role made me scum read him, especially since lannan had claimed to target bsh NP2 (resulting in roleblock of bsh) and I already had lannan as slight scum. Made me think bsh was holding back from locking in action claims, instead waiting for an opportunity to out fake results at a critical time. Was this an illogical conclusion in your opinion? You seem to be good at mafia, so I genuinely would like to know.

Then after I finally figured out TGAP was scum about 330 posts into DP3 and noticed TGAPs strategy was to derail the game, I took bsh continuing to again ask the same question I had answered multiple times as bsh trying to follow tgaps strategy of derailing. So to try and shut down what I saw (logically in my opinion and I stand by that) as bsh derailing, I started to try and shut bsh up with sarcasm. Not to be a dick for the sake of being a dick, but as an attempt to prevent bsh derailing. You will notice I treated bsh different than my town reads (like velcrow rouk and ford) and my not-so-sures (like matt and udel).
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
Discipulus_Didicit
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8/9/2016 2:39:51 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/9/2016 2:19:09 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
GG all, and thanks Danielle for modding.

I take pride in this win not only because we didn't lose a single mafia member, but also because I successfully implanted cult paranoia in at least one or two minds :)

Good job on that btw. You were a pretty solid town read for me even after you basically told me you were scum DP4, simply because of how different you were behaving from the people that I knew were scum.
Cobalt - You could be scum too.
Matt - I suppose. But I also might not be.

Kiri - Yeah, I don't know what DD is doing.
Vaarka - He's doin'a thingy do

DD - The best advice most often goes unheeded.
Wise Man - KYS, DD.
DD - Case in point ^
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,138
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8/9/2016 2:48:41 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/9/2016 2:39:51 PM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
At 8/9/2016 2:19:09 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
GG all, and thanks Danielle for modding.

I take pride in this win not only because we didn't lose a single mafia member, but also because I successfully implanted cult paranoia in at least one or two minds :)

Good job on that btw. You were a pretty solid town read for me even after you basically told me you were scum DP4, simply because of how different you were behaving from the people that I knew were scum.

Thanks. On DP4 I knew the game was basically over so I made up a new wincon, which was to convince people that there was a cult. I also am trying to improve my scum game since I think I already play pretty well as town. But I usually struggle playing as scum.
TheGreatAndPowerful
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8/9/2016 2:59:06 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
DP3 was a turning point that allowed us to achieve are primary objective (win by DP4), but even if Skep got lynched, I think we would have had it in the bag.

People scum-read me primarily because of my push on HPG, if I flipped to Skep, I would have avoided that. We wouldn't have used the poli on DP4, so what would have happened?

Assuming Vel targeted Cobalt anyway, I think there would have been a lot of tension between DD and bsh1 that we could have exploited. With Skep dead, me, Ford, and Udel were all Town-read.

I'm pretty sure in that case DP4 would have been a mislynch, putting us back on schedule, just a DP later than planned.
Skepsikyma
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8/9/2016 3:01:35 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/9/2016 2:35:27 PM, Discipulus_Didicit wrote:
At 8/9/2016 1:48:44 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
So much fun guys, thanks for modding the game Danielle. DP3 was a bit harrowing, but we managed to pull it off.

My advice to DD is to be a bit more diplomatic as town; I feel that a lot of the tension between he and bsh1 was caused ultimately by demeanor rather than genuine scumreads, and we used that tension to drive a wedge through town. We did get lucky in some ways; Udel being investigated by a rolecop was a HUGE boon to us.

I scum read bsh longer than I scum read tgap tbh.

Bsh asking over and over the same question that I gave the same answer to over and over combined with his refusal to give the town any information from his role even after you outted his role made me scum read him, especially since lannan had claimed to target bsh NP2 (resulting in roleblock of bsh) and I already had lannan as slight scum. Made me think bsh was holding back from locking in action claims, instead waiting for an opportunity to out fake results at a critical time. Was this an illogical conclusion in your opinion? You seem to be good at mafia, so I genuinely would like to know.

Then after I finally figured out TGAP was scum about 330 posts into DP3 and noticed TGAPs strategy was to derail the game, I took bsh continuing to again ask the same question I had answered multiple times as bsh trying to follow tgaps strategy of derailing. So to try and shut down what I saw (logically in my opinion and I stand by that) as bsh derailing, I started to try and shut bsh up with sarcasm. Not to be a dick for the sake of being a dick, but as an attempt to prevent bsh derailing. You will notice I treated bsh different than my town reads (like velcrow rouk and ford) and my not-so-sures (like matt and udel).

I think that your initial interactions with bsh1 sort of colored you two against one another for the rest of the game (I'm thinking about the interactions starting here http://www.debate.org...). In fact, one of the main reasons that I humored Rou's inside knowledge theory and fleshed it out is that I thought that you might react aggressively to that and disrupt the town block that was forming (a solid town block with you in the lead would have been very bad for us). I had no problem with you scum reading him (we all scum read town at some point); it's the tone that you used which I think made it impossible for either of you townread the other throughout the rest of the game. I think that bsh was so amenable to the cult theory that we pushed for sh!ts and gigs because he wanted to scum read you.

In my mind, there are three elements to great town play:

1. Accurate scum reads
2. Being townread
3. Being able to convince town to vote scum

Your scum reads were the best in the game, but because of your behavior it made it very difficult for some town players to TR you. Had you not recruited Cobalt, I think he would have also scum read you throughout the game. And because town had this schism within it, it was very easy for us to distract them and lead them on wild goose chases without seeming scummy. They couldn't unite for scum hunts while anyone on either 'faction' pushed the hunt, so scum pretty much drove all the lynches and got away with it scot free. In DP3, the support for a Geo lynch also fell on these faction lines initially.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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8/9/2016 3:30:59 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/9/2016 2:19:09 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
I would say role-wise, this game was imbalanced in favor of town.

I could see how you would think that at first glance, but upon further look, I disagree (again pardon my bias). There were at least 5 townie roles that were questionable claims. The fact that there were 2 town JOATs could have led to 1-2 mislynches (and it did). There was no cop. There were no vanillas, so 1-2 mafia could have claimed that. The Godfather could be recruited by the masons. The mafia doctor could be "role confirmed," and upon attempted recruit by the masons, would kill the recruiter. The mafia having a politician is a huge advantage as you came to see, which basically adds an extra teammate (vote) to you if you manage to stay alive.

And the mafia had a JOAT that could use a strongman, role cop, ninja, etc. I mean really, the fact that the mafia lost 0 people proves the game wasn't as imbalanced as it appears. The town has strong roles, but the mafia had roles to counter-balance them all. I think even if Skep was lynched, the mafia could have pulled off a win by the town ultimately believing that Udel was innocent. Plus an attempted recruit at scum would have killed VelCrow (the only real investigator left) or "confirmed" TGAP. And had VelCrow been successfully killed on NP2, the mafia would have had an even better chance.

Shab died trying to protect VelCrow. Good call, Shab.

But most of the veteran players ended up on the scum team, which ultimately counted for more.

Haha it's funny you say that, because I thought the town had most of the veteran players (Rou, Cobalt, bsh1, lannan, VelCrow, Shab). The mafia had 2/4 noobs to start - Udel and Forever23.
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VelCrow
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8/9/2016 3:41:34 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 8/9/2016 3:30:59 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 8/9/2016 2:19:09 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
I would say role-wise, this game was imbalanced in favor of town.

I could see how you would think that at first glance, but upon further look, I disagree (again pardon my bias). There were at least 5 townie roles that were questionable claims. The fact that there were 2 town JOATs could have led to 1-2 mislynches (and it did). There was no cop. There were no vanillas, so 1-2 mafia could have claimed that. The Godfather could be recruited by the masons. The mafia doctor could be "role confirmed," and upon attempted recruit by the masons, would kill the recruiter. The mafia having a politician is a huge advantage as you came to see, which basically adds an extra teammate (vote) to you if you manage to stay alive.

And the mafia had a JOAT that could use a strongman, role cop, ninja, etc. I mean really, the fact that the mafia lost 0 people proves the game wasn't as imbalanced as it appears. The town has strong roles, but the mafia had roles to counter-balance them all. I think even if Skep was lynched, the mafia could have pulled off a win by the town ultimately believing that Udel was innocent. Plus an attempted recruit at scum would have killed VelCrow (the only real investigator left) or "confirmed" TGAP. And had VelCrow been successfully killed on NP2, the mafia would have had an even better chance.

Shab died trying to protect VelCrow. Good call, Shab.

But most of the veteran players ended up on the scum team, which ultimately counted for more.

Haha it's funny you say that, because I thought the town had most of the veteran players (Rou, Cobalt, bsh1, lannan, VelCrow, Shab). The mafia had 2/4 noobs to start - Udel and Forever23.

Veteren players =/= good players. look at DP1 for example.
"Ah....So when god "Taught you" online, did he have a user name like "Darthmaulrules1337", and did he talk in all caps?" ~ Axonly

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