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Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/17/2011 5:13:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The scientific community is starting to take notice. Google it. Come here to post your thoughts.

Here is an energy healing hospital with a 95% success rate!

http://www.netowne.com...
Andromeda_Z
Posts: 4,151
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6/17/2011 6:29:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 5:13:08 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
The scientific community is starting to take notice. Google it. Come here to post your thoughts.


Here is an energy healing hospital with a 95% success rate!

http://www.netowne.com...

That's interesting, but if these people are being healed, then I wonder if it is because of the Placebo effect, rather than through energy. In your link, one of the four parts of ChiLel is strong belief. If this worked on people regardless of how confident they were that it would work, then I'd be fairly impressed.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/17/2011 6:31:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Last year, I prayed that everyone that got the Flu would get better.

And it worked for 99.93% of people!!!
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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6/17/2011 7:06:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/17/2011 7:13:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 6:29:25 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:
At 6/17/2011 5:13:08 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
The scientific community is starting to take notice. Google it. Come here to post your thoughts.


Here is an energy healing hospital with a 95% success rate!

http://www.netowne.com...

That's interesting, but if these people are being healed, then I wonder if it is because of the Placebo effect, rather than through energy. In your link, one of the four parts of ChiLel is strong belief. If this worked on people regardless of how confident they were that it would work, then I'd be fairly impressed.

Belief plays a major factor. Even quantum physics is learning how this simple truth shapes our reality. In the cases you speak, it's not that the placebo effect is working because nothing was ever wrong. It's just working because of the power of belief and the energy that it produces. I will try to find the video that i found once before of a miraculous healing that took place in a similar hospital in China. The patient had a tumor (I forgot where exactly). They had someone video record the ultrasound of the tumor in real time as they healed it in about 2min 43sec if I remember correctly. There is a lot of research going into energy healing right now and I think that it will become a widely used practice in the future.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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6/17/2011 7:17:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I've been around "healers" my whole life, and even live with people who claim to be "healers". I have never seen it convincingly done, despite the fact that the people believe they are being healed. I don't believe it, and I know I said this to you before, but look up "quantum woo".
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/17/2011 7:29:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 7:17:19 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I've been around "healers" my whole life, and even live with people who claim to be "healers". I have never seen it convincingly done, despite the fact that the people believe they are being healed. I don't believe it, and I know I said this to you before, but look up "quantum woo".

The numbers and results don't lie Cosmic. You can call it whatever you want "quantum woo", it does not change the truth. It does not change what is real. Belief is a power to harness and understand, not mock and scrutinize.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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6/17/2011 7:30:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
http://www.debate.org...
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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6/17/2011 7:40:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 7:29:07 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
At 6/17/2011 7:17:19 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I've been around "healers" my whole life, and even live with people who claim to be "healers". I have never seen it convincingly done, despite the fact that the people believe they are being healed. I don't believe it, and I know I said this to you before, but look up "quantum woo".

The numbers and results don't lie Cosmic. You can call it whatever you want "quantum woo", it does not change the truth. It does not change what is real. Belief is a power to harness and understand, not mock and scrutinize.

I'm telling you that it isn't truth, it isn't real, and I am aware of how belief can be harnessed. Chaos Magic(The original source of all magic) is all about using the beliefs of others to elicit a desired effect.

The New Age Movement is basically an outlet for Chaos Magicians to exploit the high concentration of pretentious schmucks out there who are both gullible, and have pride issues that prevent them from practicing true intellectual integrity. It's mostly ego masturbation, wishful thinking, and all bullsh!t.

The people who buy into this stuff are being manipulated by an on going chaos magic spell, and they don't even realize it.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/17/2011 8:59:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 7:40:04 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 6/17/2011 7:29:07 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
At 6/17/2011 7:17:19 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I've been around "healers" my whole life, and even live with people who claim to be "healers". I have never seen it convincingly done, despite the fact that the people believe they are being healed. I don't believe it, and I know I said this to you before, but look up "quantum woo".

The numbers and results don't lie Cosmic. You can call it whatever you want "quantum woo", it does not change the truth. It does not change what is real. Belief is a power to harness and understand, not mock and scrutinize.

I'm telling you that it isn't truth, it isn't real, and I am aware of how belief can be harnessed. Chaos Magic(The original source of all magic) is all about using the beliefs of others to elicit a desired effect.

The New Age Movement is basically an outlet for Chaos Magicians to exploit the high concentration of pretentious schmucks out there who are both gullible, and have pride issues that prevent them from practicing true intellectual integrity. It's mostly ego masturbation, wishful thinking, and all bullsh!t.

The people who buy into this stuff are being manipulated by an on going chaos magic spell, and they don't even realize it.

It seems that through your judgement... You are the one acting like a pretentious arrogant and ignorant shmuck. I don't think I would put my "new ager" friends in such a category. They don't really judge other people like that. Not sure where you are getting your information from... But tell yourself what you want.

Side note: You seem like a very angry and confused person on the inside. You seem very hostile and ignorant towards anybody's version of a solid spiritual reality. I'm sure this comes from a strict or forced spiritual childhood and a personal rebellion towards the force which tried to control you, which led to you being spiritually ignorant, arrogant, and hostile.... But I hope you can cleanse that negative energy from your spirit someday.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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6/17/2011 9:55:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 8:59:13 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
At 6/17/2011 7:40:04 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 6/17/2011 7:29:07 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
At 6/17/2011 7:17:19 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I've been around "healers" my whole life, and even live with people who claim to be "healers". I have never seen it convincingly done, despite the fact that the people believe they are being healed. I don't believe it, and I know I said this to you before, but look up "quantum woo".

The numbers and results don't lie Cosmic. You can call it whatever you want "quantum woo", it does not change the truth. It does not change what is real. Belief is a power to harness and understand, not mock and scrutinize.

I'm telling you that it isn't truth, it isn't real, and I am aware of how belief can be harnessed. Chaos Magic(The original source of all magic) is all about using the beliefs of others to elicit a desired effect.

The New Age Movement is basically an outlet for Chaos Magicians to exploit the high concentration of pretentious schmucks out there who are both gullible, and have pride issues that prevent them from practicing true intellectual integrity. It's mostly ego masturbation, wishful thinking, and all bullsh!t.

The people who buy into this stuff are being manipulated by an on going chaos magic spell, and they don't even realize it.

It seems that through your judgement... You are the one acting like a pretentious arrogant and ignorant shmuck. I don't think I would put my "new ager" friends in such a category. They don't really judge other people like that. Not sure where you are getting your information from... But tell yourself what you want.

Side note: You seem like a very angry and confused person on the inside. You seem very hostile and ignorant towards anybody's version of a solid spiritual reality. I'm sure this comes from a strict or forced spiritual childhood and a personal rebellion towards the force which tried to control you, which led to you being spiritually ignorant, arrogant, and hostile.... But I hope you can cleanse that negative energy from your spirit someday.

Looks to me here like we have someone who is analytic to the point of retardation due to his inability to grasp his own epistemological limitations.

You know, it is that very weakness that makes you susceptible to psychic manipulation and chaos magic.

You got me all wrong, brah. I'm not angry, I'm not bitter, I'm not confused. I'm just telling it like it is. You want to know how things work, you gotta keep it real. I come from another world, these are matters I have authority on.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Andromeda_Z
Posts: 4,151
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6/17/2011 9:58:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 7:13:21 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
At 6/17/2011 6:29:25 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:
At 6/17/2011 5:13:08 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
The scientific community is starting to take notice. Google it. Come here to post your thoughts.


Here is an energy healing hospital with a 95% success rate!

http://www.netowne.com...

That's interesting, but if these people are being healed, then I wonder if it is because of the Placebo effect, rather than through energy. In your link, one of the four parts of ChiLel is strong belief. If this worked on people regardless of how confident they were that it would work, then I'd be fairly impressed.

Belief plays a major factor. Even quantum physics is learning how this simple truth shapes our reality.

Belief has nothing to do with quantum physics.
In the cases you speak, it's not that the placebo effect is working because nothing was ever wrong.

I never said that nothing was ever wrong. My point was that these people were most likely being healed by the placebo effect. If they needed healing at all, then something was definitely wrong.
It's just working because of the power of belief and the energy that it produces.

I think we're arguing similar positions here. I'm not negating that the patients are being healed because they believe that they will be healed, I just don't think energy is involved in healing them.
I will try to find the video that i found once before of a miraculous healing that took place in a similar hospital in China. The patient had a tumor (I forgot where exactly). They had someone video record the ultrasound of the tumor in real time as they healed it in about 2min 43sec if I remember correctly.

I don't think that would prove how the patient was being healed, but ok.
There is a lot of research going into energy healing right now and I think that it will become a widely used practice in the future.

If it works, then okay. I don't have any problem with this becoming a more widespread practice. I do these patients are being healed. I don't agree with you on how, but something is happening.
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/17/2011 11:08:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's so interesting to hear everyone claim so firmly that THEY know the truth...myself included. I find it quite fascinating that so many people can all have the same information at their disposal and yet all come to very different solid beliefs about so many things.

Energy healing will speak for itself in the years ahead of us.

Quantum physics has a lot to do with belief actually. Documented scientific experiments have shown that when it gets right down to it... Personal belief that a particle is solid or that it is wave energy is the only difference between it existing as either. The observer believed it was solid and it was. A different observer believed it would be energy and it was wave energy.

I didn't make this stuff up. Research it.

I was a hardcore skeptic on anything spiritual ages ago... I was a hardcore materialist. I only see that as a path of ignorance now.
Andromeda_Z
Posts: 4,151
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6/17/2011 11:41:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 11:08:27 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
Quantum physics has a lot to do with belief actually. Documented scientific experiments have shown that when it gets right down to it... Personal belief that a particle is solid or that it is wave energy is the only difference between it existing as either. The observer believed it was solid and it was. A different observer believed it would be energy and it was wave energy.

The observer effect has nothing to do with belief, it happens because the observation itself forces the collapse of the superposition. You can believe the atoms look like elephants, but that won't make them elephants.

I didn't make this stuff up. Research it.

I never said you made it up, I'm just skeptical.

I was a hardcore skeptic on anything spiritual ages ago... I was a hardcore materialist. I only see that as a path of ignorance now.

I get that, I've held all kinds of opinions that I don't agree with anymore.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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6/17/2011 11:54:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 6:29:25 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:

but if these people are being healed, then I wonder if it is because of the Placebo effect, rather than through energy.

Look at what the double blind studies show.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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6/17/2011 11:55:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 6:31:38 PM, OreEle wrote:
Last year, I prayed that everyone that got the Flu would get better.

And it worked for 99.93% of people!!!

I was praying that your prayers would work so obviously the credit is mine.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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6/18/2011 12:03:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 11:41:17 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:

The observer effect has nothing to do with belief, it happens because the observation itself forces the collapse of the superposition.

The problem is a mixing of terms because the lay definition of observe means something different. Wave function collapse happens because of measurement which has to take place through physical interaction which has to obey fundamental laws such as spin conversion. It is not observation in the lay sense like in Mystery Men where that one dude was invisible but only when no one was watching him (Thaddeus has that ability as well). There is no interpretation of quantum theory, Copenhagen or otherwise which works like that. If you could observe without physical interaction then there would be no wave function collapse so this is actually an argument against the nonphysical not for it.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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6/18/2011 12:09:14 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 9:58:34 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:

If it works, then okay. I don't have any problem with this becoming a more widespread practice.

It isn't the ones who are healed through the placebo effect which are a concern, it is the ones who die because placebos have limits.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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6/18/2011 12:13:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
http://www.debate.org...
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Andromeda_Z
Posts: 4,151
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6/18/2011 12:23:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/18/2011 12:09:14 AM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 6/17/2011 9:58:34 PM, Andromeda_Z wrote:

If it works, then okay. I don't have any problem with this becoming a more widespread practice.

It isn't the ones who are healed through the placebo effect which are a concern, it is the ones who die because placebos have limits.



I see your point. I'm just saying that I have no problem with it when it works. If it doesn't, then get to a hospital. I think it's a bunch of baloney, but I'm not going to stop other people from trying it if they think it will work or them. It's their lives.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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6/18/2011 12:23:54 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Watch the actual video, look at the examples and then imagine watching the children suffer and die in agony when they could be so easily cured by modern science and then affirm "energy healing" and other snake oil cures.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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6/18/2011 12:24:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
sounds to me like a huge bunch of bullshitt
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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6/18/2011 12:26:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 6:31:38 PM, OreEle wrote:
Last year, I prayed that everyone that got the Flu would get better.

And it worked for 99.93% of people!!!

Dude i just lifted weights a couple hours ago and i'm sore. Could you heal me?
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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6/18/2011 12:28:36 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/17/2011 11:08:27 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
Energy healing will speak for itself in the years ahead of us.

Energy healing itself might, but the people who use it probably won't be speaking in the years ahead of us
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Andromeda_Z
Posts: 4,151
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6/18/2011 12:28:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/18/2011 12:23:54 AM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:


Watch the actual video, look at the examples and then imagine watching the children suffer and die in agony when they could be so easily cured by modern science and then affirm "energy healing" and other snake oil cures.

I'm not trying to affirm it, I think it's bull. I'm trying to have an open mind, but I think I let my brain fall out.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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6/18/2011 12:29:14 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/18/2011 12:23:07 AM, Andromeda_Z wrote:

... I'm not going to stop other people from trying it if they think it will work or them.

It will work for anything which is self-induced which is a lot of health problems. There is also no problem using it. When you give a child medicine for example you constantly reinforce that it will make them better, the more they believe this the more it will work.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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6/18/2011 12:30:24 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/18/2011 12:24:06 AM, askbob wrote:
sounds to me like a huge bunch of bullshitt

Yeah it is, Penn and Teller did an entire episode on this psuedoscientific nonsense that takes advantage of the placebo effect and nothing more.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
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6/18/2011 12:34:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/18/2011 12:28:53 AM, Andromeda_Z wrote:

I'm not trying to affirm it, I think it's bull.

Sorry, I was unclear, that was not meant as a response to you, it was just a thread reference.