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Mental illness

PervRat
Posts: 963
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4/11/2009 10:16:19 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Not a funny topic, but those of us who suffer mental or emotional challenges are the butt of many jokes.

Its not just hurtful, it causes serious problems -- but these jokes, in my opinion, are merely a symptom of the underlying disdain we are raised to believe, a pity and look-down at anyone who suffers.

I speak of course as a sufferer myself ... I was diagnosed at 24 as having Major Depressive Disorder and Generalized Anxiety Disorder. It is very probable I have had these two conditions my entire life, as my kindergarten counsellor told my parents she felt quite strongly that I suffered from depression and she recommended I get taken to professionals. My parents opted not to, feeling it was a phase I would grow out of, so I did not even get a professional diagnosis (just the opinion of my counsellor). I never did. I do not recall from that far back (pre-puberty) depressed feelings, but I certainly do as a teenager, worse and worse with each passing year. I was bright and intelligent, but put no effort into doing schoolwork and I wound up with very disappointing grades, though I scored very high on achievement tests (top 1% of the state in several subjects) and was reading on a college level by the time I was in third grade.

I knew I was having problems as I became a teenager, but I was afraid to seek help because of the stigma attached to mental illness. I did not want to admit to having a problem, but there was little getting around that I did. I kept a lot of my feelings to myself as best I could, but of course there was no hiding many symptoms.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, my wife was raped by her father as a young girl. This, I think, is one of the most critical failures of our society from its disdain toward mental illness ... I have never really spoken with the perpetrator, but I have placed great empathy with him. I try to imagine how others, even "evil" people feel a lot, see the world through their eyes. Projecting my own difficulties coming to terms with my mental illness because of the stigma, it is undoubtedly a million times worse for a pedophile. No wonder they do not seek treatment before they are unable to control themselves for that fatal first time.

I think its way too easy for way too many people in this country to place all the blame on violent acts and horrific violations of children and innocent people on the perpetrators. In my eyes, however, there is plenty of blame to go around, especially at those who mock mental illness and so make it harder for one to bring onesself to get help /before/ you are unable to control yourself.

I hope others have meaningful arguments to make with me here, agree or disagree.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/13/2009 10:38:15 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I think you have a point. The fact that no one has responded to this post - even though many frequent users are active in the forums - proves that a lot of people are uncomfortable or apathetic (I dunno which is worse) when it comes to discussing more taboo mental illnesses, such as pedophilia, rape, etc.

I understand your empathy towards your father-in-law and commend you for it. It's hard to see certain "illnesses" as true sickness that left untreated cannot be helped, but that is indeed the case with most disorders.

Additionally, many individuals are products of their environment. Some with mental disorders have been traumatized or stigmatized as young children, and left undiagnosed they are burdened with certain issues that portray them as demonic. Some in society even consider them as such (or cursed by the devil).

The truth is that a disorder or abnormality of the brain can be just as harmful and certainly unfortunate as having physical defects in parts other than the brain. As such, more emphasis needs to be placed on science and treatment (as well as promote healthy social discussion) instead of allowing wacky Jesus freaks (not that all Christians are Jesus freaks!) to cast unfair shame on those affected with said disorders.

Thanks for the honesty with this post; it was a refreshing change of pace from the typical teen banter that often goes on around here.

Ps. The determinists out there will tell you that those who suffer from mental illness have always been "destined" to such a circumstance. Therefore, placing blame of sorts on them would be cruel and unwarranted. Just an idea.
President of DDO
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
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4/13/2009 11:24:09 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I didn't even see this post until Lwerd just bumped it.

I would agree with nearly everything said. It is an issue that needs to be addressed in people before it goes too far. The problem is, no one is willing to talk of such issues. Som31John brought up the topic of animated child pornography months ago and almost no one would even address the point he was trying to address (that it could serve as an outlet for those with pedo urges).

Certainly it would be benefitial to open a dialogue on such matters to involve more people in the discussion. I think we can simultaneously search for solutions while still condemning the acts.

The one thing I would disagree is the level of responsibility to the perpetrator. Despite the mental illness, people are still responsibile for their actions. Even though there are strong biological processes almost compelling such behavior, the person still possesses the ability to manage their behavior.
ChristianM
Posts: 1,764
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4/14/2009 6:59:53 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 4/13/2009 11:24:09 PM, JBlake wrote:
I didn't even see this post until Lwerd just bumped it.

I would agree with nearly everything said. It is an issue that needs to be addressed in people before it goes too far. The problem is, no one is willing to talk of such issues. Som31John brought up the topic of animated child pornography months ago and almost no one would even address the point he was trying to address (that it could serve as an outlet for those with pedo urges).

Certainly it would be benefitial to open a dialogue on such matters to involve more people in the discussion. I think we can simultaneously search for solutions while still condemning the acts.

The one thing I would disagree is the level of responsibility to the perpetrator. Despite the mental illness, people are still responsibile for their actions. Even though there are strong biological processes almost compelling such behavior, the person still possesses the ability to manage their behavior.

Ur mental
+1
PervRat
Posts: 963
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4/14/2009 11:53:17 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
The one thing I would disagree is the level of responsibility to the perpetrator. Despite the mental illness, people are still responsibile for their actions. Even though there are strong biological processes almost compelling such behavior, the person still possesses the ability to manage their behavior.

Oh, I'm certainly not proposing reducing sentences, but I feel quite strongly much more of an effort must be made on prevention. Once you get to the point of sentencing, it is very much too late all around.

Desensitize our society to mental illness, eliminate the shame in asking for mental health help ... and while you are at it, make psychological help available not just for those who can afford two hundred plus bucks per hour. Those who need the most help are those who are struggling, and those who are struggling can't regularly spare that much dough!
BigMac
Posts: 1,155
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4/16/2009 8:51:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
yeah, im doin a research paper for my HS research class about the mental and physical causes (such as bipolar or abuse) that lead to someone snapping and going on a killing spree
I'm back.
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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4/16/2009 9:40:18 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Ps. The determinists out there will tell you that those who suffer from mental illness have always been "destined" to such a circumstance. Therefore, placing blame of sorts on them would be cruel and unwarranted. Just an idea.

I'm an indeterminist, but same conclusion as well :)
one-2-won
Posts: 34
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4/26/2009 4:54:59 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I agree. So many societies are old fashioned in their views and approches to sensitive issues that have stigma attached to them (mental health, rape, sex, death...etc)
I believe that part of the battle is in removing such stigma and having a change in societal views. Something that would be difficult to achieve, although not impossible.
People struggle to tackle and deal with issues that they themselves cannot get to grips with. Such issues highlighted, are not easy to listen to or hear about, which is why I think it's important to particularly discuss such topics openly.
I know it's a bit different but recently I went to Poland to visit Auschwitz, an opportunity that the majority of my peers and teachers shyed away from due to the fact it is unpleasant and easier to ignore. To me, this constituted one of the reasons why I felt it was imperative to go.
In the same way, if people feel they can remain "ignorent" to such topics then they will do.
I do not think though that we can blame individuals for choosing to avoid discussing these sensitive issues.
As someone who is incredibly close to a friend who suffers from depression, I know how isolated she feels. But, as someone who has never even vaguely experienced anything of the sort, I myself know, how difficult it is to truly understand or empathise with someone who suffers from depression.
Disussing it, rasing awareness and forcing people to deal with such issues, which are part of society, is I think very important. Although, in a very politically correct era, I cannot see this happening any time soon, although I do think it should.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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4/26/2009 12:16:51 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
As my uncle suffers from schizophrenia, I know what PervRat is talking about all too well. Even I have blamed his actions, actions at times that can range from just odd to threatening, solely on him, even though often he just cannot help it.

Mental illness is something that most people aren't comfortable with just because of the stigma attached to it by society. We may not be forcing people with mental illness to undergo electric shock therapy anymore and institutionalized help for mental diseases has grown exponentially over the years, but to a lot of people they're still strange.
We're all taught by society what the 'normal' person is. Christian, straight and mostly white. People with mental illness don't fit into this general view of society. As most people will never come in close contact with a person that has a mental illness, there is no real way to combat the stigma. it will persist until people start to accept that it is simply a fact of life.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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4/26/2009 1:24:44 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
As someone who is incredibly close to a friend who suffers from depression, I know how isolated she feels. But, as someone who has never even vaguely experienced anything of the sort, I myself know, how difficult it is to truly understand or empathise with someone who suffers from depression.
Disussing it, rasing awareness and forcing people to deal with such issues, which are part of society, is I think very important. Although, in a very politically correct era, I cannot see this happening any time soon, although I do think it should.

Thank you for staying her friend. I know those of us who suffer from major depression and other disorders aren't always fun to be around. Its very frustrating, for me I wish I could snap out of it just so I wouldn't drag down my friends with me when I'm in a really bad "down." I've had lovers and friends ask the most poisonous of questions -- why their friendship for me isn't enough to lift my spirits.

Its very hard to explain how important their friendships are, at the same time the beast of depression can't be lifted even by their valued friendships. Its embarrassing and humiliating at the same time I feel ashamed and guilty not to feel worthy of the friendships I have. I wonder way too much why the friends I still have are my friends, putting up with so much of my drama and tears.

Thank you, thank you again for staying a friend to someone suffering depression. I know it can't be the easiest thing.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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4/26/2009 3:17:50 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Is the paitent mental ill? Or is he just fine and everyone else ill?

Does being in the majority make one right?
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
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4/26/2009 3:34:55 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 4/26/2009 3:17:50 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Is the paitent mental ill? Or is he just fine and everyone else ill?

Does being in the majority make one right?

Fail. The patient is mentally ill, as seen by the chemical imbalance in their brain.
Nik
Posts: 552
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4/26/2009 4:17:45 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Not all mental disabilities are caused by chemical imbalances in the brain.

And though it is wrong, very wrong, I disagree with rape being called a mental illness, not just because its a verb :) but also, though rape can be associated with mental illness it is definetly not always mutual.
"If you could tell the world but one truth, I could convince it of a thousand lies"
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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4/26/2009 4:21:59 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 4/26/2009 3:34:55 PM, JBlake wrote:
At 4/26/2009 3:17:50 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Is the paitent mental ill? Or is he just fine and everyone else ill?

Does being in the majority make one right?

Fail. The patient is mentally ill, as seen by the chemical imbalance in their brain.

How do you know that the patient is right and that it is you that have a chemical imbalance?
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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4/26/2009 9:55:50 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
The one thing I would disagree is the level of responsibility to the perpetrator. Despite the mental illness, people are still responsibile for their actions. Even though there are strong biological processes almost compelling such behavior, the person still possesses the ability to manage their behavior.

Actually, no one is truly "responsible" for their actions. Everything supervenes on the physical :)

How do you know that the patient is right and that it is you that have a chemical imbalance?

Because we describe a "healthy person" by a certain, though slightly ambiguous, guideline. The majority of people have a similar biochemical makeup as the others - a certain range of heart rate, a certain balance of serotonin, etc.

In the end though, it really depends on what grounds, or perspective, you judge it by. A mentally ill person can declare his own state of mind to be what is considered healthy, and state that everyone else is mentally ill. But of course, most people say "healthy" is the physical state of a human body that is best at avoiding illness/death.

Not all mental disabilities are caused by chemical imbalances in the brain.

I surmise most, if not all, mental illnesses originate from some fault in the brain. Probably some exceptions will be allowed to a weird case in which some part of your body besides your brain somehow affects your mental status.
one-2-won
Posts: 34
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4/27/2009 10:47:48 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Thank you for staying her friend. I know those of us who suffer from major depression and other disorders aren't always fun to be around. Its very frustrating, for me I wish I could snap out of it just so I wouldn't drag down my friends with me when I'm in a really bad "down." I've had lovers and friends ask the most poisonous of questions -- why their friendship for me isn't enough to lift my spirits.

Its very hard to explain how important their friendships are, at the same time the beast of depression can't be lifted even by their valued friendships. Its embarrassing and humiliating at the same time I feel ashamed and guilty not to feel worthy of the friendships I have. I wonder way too much why the friends I still have are my friends, putting up with so much of my drama and tears.

Thank you, thank you again for staying a friend to someone suffering depression. I know it can't be the easiest thing.


I'm not going to say it's easy and I shan't make out like I'm a particularly geat friend, because it is tough and there are times when it's frustrating. It's not her fault though and neither is it yours.

Do you find that you have difficulty expressing yourself and how you feel generally to people? It's clear that you are articulate and can voice your views well, but when faced with a friend or lover to you have trouble expressing yourself. My friend at any rate is an incredibly open person (possibly too open) yet se has great difficulty expressing her depession, I don't know whether it's through fear, being ashamed or simply that it is too difficult to express.

And I'd imagine that those people are still your friends becaue they take you for who you are, wholeheartedly regardless of your mental health.

I don't wish to be rude, but have you ever considered seeing a professional?
PervRat
Posts: 963
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4/27/2009 11:41:33 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 4/27/2009 10:47:48 AM, one-2-won wrote:

Do you find that you have difficulty expressing yourself and how you feel generally to people?

Yes. I may type like an articulate person, but I am very socially awkward. Even in a casual conversation with a friend in person or over the phone, I fumble for words a lot. I feel my feelings area drag to others, and I tend to be very shy at times. I've gotten a little better, making silly puns, but I still have difficulties finding an appropriate level of openness ... and yet online, I am too open at times. Its weird, I feel more natural and "in my element" conversing through a keyboard than with my voice.

It's clear that you are articulate and can voice your views well, but when faced with a friend or lover to you have trouble expressing yourself. My friend at any rate is an incredibly open person (possibly too open) yet se has great difficulty expressing her depession, I don't know whether it's through fear, being ashamed or simply that it is too difficult to express.

I'm not psychic, of course, so I couldn't say for certain, but if her depression is like mine, then it is a combination of all three -- fear of dragging a friend down with my down feelings, embarrassment over my feelings and how much I loathe myself, ashamed to know I suffer from emotional and mental health problems (try as I might to accept it, I just can't come out to accept myself and be as proud to be mentally ill as I am, say, gay). Its also hard to put into words ... thoughts and feelings are often in a chaotic maelstrom turmoil and I can't even tell which end is up, much less describe the chaos.

And I'd imagine that those people are still your friends becaue they take you for who you are, wholeheartedly regardless of your mental health.

I don't wish to be rude, but have you ever considered seeing a professional?

I have, I have tried, but without help with health care, I have been unable to maintain. Unfortunately, I suffered an abuse of authority from a mental health "professional" the first time I made a serious attempt to get help. I wanted my depression and anxiety treated, but the therapist I was assigned to wanted to force treatment on me for my sexual orientation.

Its easy for some people to read that and think "Oh, that's easy, you could nail that guy to the wall, sue him!" But my feelings don't quite work that way. I wasn't thinking rationally. When he confronted me like that, I became very, very terrified and paranoid. I ran, ran to another state no less, and it became a lot harder to trust another therapist. I've tried a couple times since, leaving out my orientation and just trying to limit myself to my depression and anxiety conditions ... but its hard. I feel and fear without finding a therapist I can trust to be open with about everything, so I can thus give specific examples of how I feel about things that have happened and things that I feel, that it really can't have a lot of value.

Presently, I'm in a clinical research study for depression medication. I'm past the "double blind" portion and am in a year-long trial of the real McCoy (that is, I know I'm getting the medicine now, its not a might-be-real, might-be-placebo). I don't get intensive weekly psychotherapy, I have monthly physicals and evaluations to track and monitor the effectiveness of the medicine and its effect on my mood, but its all I can do when I have no health insurance (and for over two months now, zero income). I even get paid $45 per visit which covers my gas and a bit extra, though $45/mo doesn't get me far of course. (Okay, technically I'm not -zero- income, but ... come on ... $45/visit @ 1 visit/month just doesn't cut it).
PervRat
Posts: 963
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4/1/2011 6:45:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I don't know if "bumps" to bring old topics to life are frowned upon or not, but I made a reference to this thread in another thread in which someone expressed having some emotional difficulty, and so I 'bump' this thread in the hope my experience and observations might help others to recognize that they may have difficulties, and while in our society we do tend to feel guilt or shame that keeps us in denial over mental health issues we are facing, it is important to fight that urge to just turn away from the mirror and refuse to try and confront problems.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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4/2/2011 2:06:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
The sooner you quite making excuses, the sooner you'll be able to cure your depression.

You are depressed for a cognitive reason, and you are fully capable of repairing it. You just have to figure out what it is.

You are the only one who can cure your depression.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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4/2/2011 2:32:33 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
This is a brilliant thread and I completely agree. I don't know if you would go as far as I do but I have often said that no one is truly responsible for their actions, all "bad-guys" are victims themselves.

I see all negative emotional states such as despair and aggression, in anyone, as the result of a disorder, all of which are curable but more importantly avoidable.

I too suffered from severe depression. It just so happens to be a fluke that I didn't kill myself.
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laleona89
Posts: 92
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4/2/2011 7:53:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I suffered of depression too, about one year ago, when I was diagnosed with Narcolepsy because I started to have mood swings, which caused my little sister to start to be mean to me, but I couldn't help it because part of this illness is that you can't always control your emotion the way you should, so I got easily frustrated and took out a lot of what I was suffering on my younger sister and older brother, but they didn't help the situation any better, they actually started to call me some names, but it eventually stopped when I learned to control my mood swings while I was in depression.
Narcolepsy may not be a mental illness, but it was hard for me to accept that my life was going to be limited by some of the symptoms of Narcolepsy, The worst part is that I have to avoid laughing to much when I'm with friends because I can have a Cataplexy attack in which my body looses muscle tone and I can't move and I sometimes have some hallucinations during this period.
The good thing is that now I am better, though there is not a cure I am being helped with some meds.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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4/3/2011 8:30:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/2/2011 2:06:27 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
The sooner you quite making excuses, the sooner you'll be able to cure your depression.

You are depressed for a cognitive reason, and you are fully capable of repairing it. You just have to figure out what it is.

You are the only one who can cure your depression.

and if you find that you can't, or if your depression recurs, feel really guilty about it cause its all your fault. cool.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
PervRat
Posts: 963
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4/3/2011 8:48:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/3/2011 8:41:00 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Alfie makes the bunnies cry

Unfortunately, it is a common reaction. His attitude is prevalent enough in society which has the effect of making mental health issues difficult to deal with, and thus they fester -- in some cases, such as the Arizona shooting, to violent ends. In cases like mine and other who suffer in depression, we can't get treatment because of the attitudes of people like Alfie. Our society has a very unhealthy attitude toward mental health, and I wish there would be a real effort to reform such harmful attitudes. :/
belle
Posts: 4,113
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4/3/2011 8:58:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/3/2011 8:48:25 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 4/3/2011 8:41:00 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Alfie makes the bunnies cry

Unfortunately, it is a common reaction. His attitude is prevalent enough in society which has the effect of making mental health issues difficult to deal with, and thus they fester -- in some cases, such as the Arizona shooting, to violent ends. In cases like mine and other who suffer in depression, we can't get treatment because of the attitudes of people like Alfie. Our society has a very unhealthy attitude toward mental health, and I wish there would be a real effort to reform such harmful attitudes. :/

well thats not really fair either. he does have a point, in that there is often times a lot that depressed people can do to improve their mood and their lives... a lot of people tend to get trapped into a victim mentality and only make themselves feel worse. mostly i objected to his statement for its lack of balance.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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4/4/2011 12:41:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/3/2011 8:48:25 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 4/3/2011 8:41:00 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Alfie makes the bunnies cry

Unfortunately, it is a common reaction. His attitude is prevalent enough in society which has the effect of making mental health issues difficult to deal with, and thus they fester -- in some cases, such as the Arizona shooting, to violent ends. In cases like mine and other who suffer in depression, we can't get treatment because of the attitudes of people like Alfie. Our society has a very unhealthy attitude toward mental health, and I wish there would be a real effort to reform such harmful attitudes. :/

You couldn't even begin to understand my attitude, because your own attitude is pessimistic and self defeating. You are a whiner, and it is your own fault that you are depressed. This is a fact.

I've battled with depression my whole life, and cured it. The sooner you realize that your own mental health is within your own control, the sooner you are going to be able to cure yourself.

You don't do it by deluding yourself, you do it by getting real with yourself.

You are miserable because of your own desires, and your inability to fulfill them. You take these things too seriously, and you have to come to the point to where you realize that your attitude is ridiculous. All is vanity.

If you really want to be happy, you have to come to terms with absurdity. Excuses aren't going to help you. An excuse when it comes to this is a delusion. We are talking about the mind, something which is very adaptable and mailable. If you wish to dispute this, blame chemical imbalances which you falsely believe are out of your control, etc, it is to your own detriment.

Depression is a VERY hard to get out of mindset, and it is very self defeating, but it is possible. You can do it. You have to have faith that you are able to get out of it. Once you have that faith, examine your thoughts, question your assumptions, and get to the root of your psyche. Your paradigm needs to be rocked, otherwise your mental illness will continue to persist.

I believe that you are capable of doing it, but that doesn't matter. You need to believe that you CAN do it.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/4/2011 12:53:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Come on people, take the Charlie Sheen treatment to cure yourself.

Just blink and be cured.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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4/4/2011 5:50:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/4/2011 12:53:26 PM, OreEle wrote:
Come on people, take the Charlie Sheen treatment to cure yourself.

Just blink and be cured.

I'm pretty sure that doesn't work.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp