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High Fat vs High Carbs on Plaque/Inflammation

Sieben
Posts: 2,736
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6/20/2011 7:10:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Assuming intense/heavy exercise regiment. With/without cardio if it makes a difference (explain why). I.e. the context is natural bodybuilding.

The orthodox logic against high fat diets is that an increase in free fatty acids and triglycerides are bad for blood composition in terms of plaque formation and physical artery damage. I do not know how to evaluate this because virtually only HDL/LDL have been studied in this regard, and it seems like its actually possible to get really high HDL out of a high fat diet if you do it right.

The high-fat/atkins/paleo-diet/metabolic-diet/I-like-read-meat crowd complains that carbohydrates are converted into triglycerides anyway once glycogen stores become full. Steady or high insulin levels then drive FFAs into adipose tissue... which is actually not necessarily bad from a bloodwork point of view. Better to have FAs sitting in one place than bouncing off your veins.

Thoughts? Any studies or papers on this issue? Is this another POS health problem we have to try and figure out analytically because the medical community can't change more than one variable at once and doesn't care about maximizing human performance? Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

I'm going to do both diets for 3 months and get all the bloodwork done anyway just because I want to see the endocrine impact. There are also some pretty cool micro strategies I'll be testing out but won't show up on blood work (short term insulin sensitivity etc).

Really just wondering if there are any diet experts on this site.
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PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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6/20/2011 7:32:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/20/2011 7:10:15 PM, Sieben wrote:
Assuming intense/heavy exercise regiment. With/without cardio if it makes a difference (explain why). I.e. the context is natural bodybuilding.

The orthodox logic against high fat diets is that an increase in free fatty acids and triglycerides are bad for blood composition in terms of plaque formation and physical artery damage. I do not know how to evaluate this because virtually only HDL/LDL have been studied in this regard, and it seems like its actually possible to get really high HDL out of a high fat diet if you do it right.

The high-fat/atkins/paleo-diet/metabolic-diet/I-like-read-meat crowd complains that carbohydrates are converted into triglycerides anyway once glycogen stores become full. Steady or high insulin levels then drive FFAs into adipose tissue... which is actually not necessarily bad from a bloodwork point of view. Better to have FAs sitting in one place than bouncing off your veins.

Thoughts? Any studies or papers on this issue? Is this another POS health problem we have to try and figure out analytically because the medical community can't change more than one variable at once and doesn't care about maximizing human performance? Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

I'm going to do both diets for 3 months and get all the bloodwork done anyway just because I want to see the endocrine impact. There are also some pretty cool micro strategies I'll be testing out but won't show up on blood work (short term insulin sensitivity etc).

Really just wondering if there are any diet experts on this site.:

I'm no expert by any stretch, but there are some (un)truths to both sides of the story. All food eventually breaks down in to sugar because it's sugar that fuels us in the form of ATP (Adenosine triphosphate). And fat is also a critical component to your health. You couldn't achieve homeostasis without it. Your cell membranes are composed of fats, lipids, and phospholipids. If they weren't, water would permeate the cells and break hydrogen bonds necessary for cell survival.

Fats are the body's long-term energy storage. Think of it as the body's 401k policy during tough times (say, harsh winters with limited food) to use as both insulation and energy stores. The people you see in the gym that have 2% body fat would die very quickly in the wild. The problem is that the body is so efficient at storing unused energy as fat (high caloric intake, while remaining hypokinetic) that it stores too much and doesn't have any useful way to break it down.

Too much of it is obviously really bad for you (no sense in lecturing anyone on that). And the whole crowd that bags on carbs doesn't know anything about bodybuilding let alone overall health. You have to have to have carbs. Hell, unused protein ALSO turns to fat. The issue really is people getting their carbs from over-processed, high gluten sources.

Protein shakes are worthless, and there's a lot of new information that vindicates me. Those shakes are loaded with sugars and the caloric content is often more than a Big Mac; not to mention there's new studies indicating that they cause cancer. They're unnecessary.

Something I like to eat after a workout is sushi. It's lean, high protein, high carbs (good carbs), and has essential vitamins and minerals. For dinner, an excellent source is a baked sweet potato and tuna.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Sieben
Posts: 2,736
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6/20/2011 9:37:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/20/2011 7:32:05 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:

Too much of it is obviously really bad for you (no sense in lecturing anyone on that).

The idea of a high fat diet that you force the body to utilize different energy pathways that use more fat, priming your metabolism to burn bodyfat. You combine this with low carbs because you want to insulin pretty low so that FAs can get out of adipose tissue and into the blood stream where they can be metabolized. Low insulin also allows your GH to rise (insulin and GH are counterbalancing), so you maintain anabolism on the diet.

Also testosterone production MAY be upregulated by the increase in fat intake, but I'm not sold on it simply from lack of a good empirical study. The chemical pathway is there but the HPTA is so f*cking picky that I'll only buy it when I see it.

Some high fat diets also cycle carbohydrates, eating low carb high fat during the weekdays to boost GH and Test, then loading up on carbs on the weekend so you can have insulin GH and high Test all at once since insulin won't instantaneously suppress GH.

I'm also such a fan of training hard that I'd be inclined to say that whatever diet produces the highest Test would probably give you the best results.

My only concern is that the high fat diet would have a relative disadvantage in terms of Plaque and Inflammation. All the mainstream studies on this basically look at high fat high carb diets, but if the metabolic pathway for fat changes under these kinds of keto diets then the effect on blood composition might even be favorable.

And the whole crowd that bags on carbs doesn't know anything about bodybuilding let alone overall health. You have to have to have carbs.

Some of the anti-carb people don't know anything about BB, but there is a whole host of high fat low carb theories. Guys who eat 36 eggs (including the yolks) per day kind of deal... Also virtually all cutting strategies focus on decreasing carb intake because insulin makes fat loss impossible.

You don't hear about these fancy diets now because all the Pros are basically eating high carb/protein moderate fat in the off season. It doesn't matter what this does to their hormones because their gear will take care of it anyway.

Hell, unused protein ALSO turns to fat.

I'm unfamiliar with that mechanism.

The issue really is people getting their carbs from over-processed, high gluten sources.

ITT we are way beyond that issue. :)

Protein shakes are worthless, and there's a lot of new information that vindicates me. Those shakes are loaded with sugars and the caloric content is often more than a Big Mac;

First, you're confusing gainers with protein shakes. Gainers range from high quality protein blends with 1:1 ratio of carbohydrates to protein, to low quality soy proteins with a 5:1 ratio of carbs to protein. They are not often high in fat. The highest I've seen is 20g which is still less than a Big Mac.

I would probably rather drink any gainer than a big mac because I don't have the acid bile to handle that much fat (currently eating high pro mod carb low fat and doing a controlled cut). I can handle excess carbs much more easily.

Protein powders are not typically loaded down with sugars. Fa­g­gy brands like Cytosport's Muscle Milk (which is a mini-gainer really) and BSN put *SOME* sugar in their drinks, but its typically less than 10g of sugar which is negligible in most people's diets because they're eating like s­hit already. These brands are popular among frat boys because they taste like candy.

Then there are other top selling protein powders like Optimum Nutrition's which contain very few sugars. There are even pure WPI 0 carb mixes if you want to pay the extra money.

not to mention there's new studies indicating that they cause cancer. They're unnecessary.

"They"? There are a lot of different brands. I don't doubt that specific brands have specific carcinogenic additives. But if you look at brands like scivation they basically just use Sucralose as their artificial sweetener.

If you're afraid that whey causes cancer... I don't know what to tell you. Its just isolated milk proteins. Milk doesn't cause cancer. Amino acids don't cause cancer. Egg whites don't cause cancer...

Something I like to eat after a workout is sushi. It's lean, high protein, high carbs (good carbs), and has essential vitamins and minerals. For dinner, an excellent source is a baked sweet potato and tuna.

I have my individual foods and meal timing down :)

I'd actually cut out the tuna because there's no reason to eat mercury. None at all. Not only do I not care if the FDA says its safe, the quantity of tuna I'd be eating would put me way over the weekly limit they set. Even the "low mercury troll caught tuna" on Amazon.com :(

You're better off with tilapia if you must eat fish. I personally hate fish so I'm all about egg whites, turkey, and chicken.
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