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Is Fat Really Evil?

s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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1/24/2012 10:48:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If carbohydrates raise serum glucose levels, inhibiting gluconeogenesis (the use of stored fat for energy), why do most nutritionists and dietitians advise people to eat a low fat, high carbohydrate diet?
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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1/26/2012 9:37:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/24/2012 10:48:02 PM, s-anthony wrote:
If carbohydrates raise serum glucose levels, inhibiting gluconeogenesis (the use of stored fat for energy), why do most nutritionists and dietitians advise people to eat a low fat, high carbohydrate diet?

Because eating anything except dry, unseasoned meat raises serum glucose levels.

Your question... sigh. Well, if you really want to know the answer...

Your body needs five things from your diet in varying proportions for optimal nutrition: vitamins, minerals, cholesterol, water, and sugar.

Anything that isn't the prior four, the body converts into sugar, unless it's indigestible. Fiber, for example, is not a vitamin or mineral, nor is it cholesterol or water, and your body doesn't convert it into sugar. Thusly, it is indigestible, and passes through your digestive system relatively unchanged, although some believe that soluble fiber ferments in the small intestine.

That makes fat 100%, thoroughly extraneous.

Carbohydrates, which the body needs for energy (converts into sugar), are not. They are essential.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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1/27/2012 7:26:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/24/2012 10:48:02 PM, s-anthony wrote:
If carbohydrates raise serum glucose levels, inhibiting gluconeogenesis (the use of stored fat for energy), why do most nutritionists and dietitians advise people to eat a low fat, high carbohydrate diet?

I thought this topic was going to be a huge diatribe about how fat people are evil.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/27/2012 10:40:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 9:37:16 PM, Ren wrote:
Your question... sigh. Well, if you really want to know the answer...

Your body needs five things from your diet in varying proportions for optimal nutrition: vitamins, minerals, cholesterol, water, and sugar.

Anything that isn't the prior four, the body converts into sugar, unless it's indigestible. Fiber, for example, is not a vitamin or mineral, nor is it cholesterol or water, and your body doesn't convert it into sugar. Thusly, it is indigestible, and passes through your digestive system relatively unchanged, although some believe that soluble fiber ferments in the small intestine.

That makes fat 100%, thoroughly extraneous.
That's a complete non-sequitir.


Carbohydrates, which the body needs for energy (converts into sugar), are not. They are essential.
Fat is converted into sugar too.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
sadolite
Posts: 8,834
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1/28/2012 9:14:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/24/2012 10:48:02 PM, s-anthony wrote:
If carbohydrates raise serum glucose levels, inhibiting gluconeogenesis (the use of stored fat for energy), why do most nutritionists and dietitians advise people to eat a low fat, high carbohydrate diet?

All food is good for you. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. That is if you are a normal person who doesn't sit on their arse all day and shove food in their mouths 24/7
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

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s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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1/29/2012 12:57:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/26/2012 9:37:16 PM, Ren wrote:
Because eating anything except dry, unseasoned meat raises serum glucose levels.

No. Fats, proteins, and other forms of sugar do not, immediately, raise serum glucose levels. Only glucose has an immediate effect on serum levels.

That makes fat 100%, thoroughly extraneous.

Are you aware that fat is needed in formation of cells and hormones? This is not some crackpot theory but basic biology. If you don't believe me, pick up any book on biology or biochemistry and read for yourself.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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1/30/2012 2:17:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/27/2012 10:40:11 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/26/2012 9:37:16 PM, Ren wrote:
Your question... sigh. Well, if you really want to know the answer...

Your body needs five things from your diet in varying proportions for optimal nutrition: vitamins, minerals, cholesterol, water, and sugar.

Anything that isn't the prior four, the body converts into sugar, unless it's indigestible. Fiber, for example, is not a vitamin or mineral, nor is it cholesterol or water, and your body doesn't convert it into sugar. Thusly, it is indigestible, and passes through your digestive system relatively unchanged, although some believe that soluble fiber ferments in the small intestine.

That makes fat 100%, thoroughly extraneous.
That's a complete non-sequitir.

Prove it.

Carbohydrates, which the body needs for energy (converts into sugar), are not. They are essential.
Fat is converted into sugar too.

Uhhh, no. Sugar is converted into fat once your body stores enough glycogen, then converts the fat into fatty acids and ketones when you don't ingest enough carbohydrates to operate your body.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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1/30/2012 2:20:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/29/2012 12:57:35 PM, s-anthony wrote:

No. Fats, proteins, and other forms of sugar do not, immediately, raise serum glucose levels. Only glucose has an immediate effect on serum levels.

Dry, unseasoned meat is the only source of complete proteins and fats.

Vegetables, fruits, and starches may contain fats and some proteins, but they also contain sugar.

All sugars raise serum glucose levels.

That makes fat 100%, thoroughly extraneous.

Are you aware that fat is needed in formation of cells and hormones? This is not some crackpot theory but basic biology. If you don't believe me, pick up any book on biology or biochemistry and read for yourself.

Your body produces it's own fat, which it uses for bone marrow and insulation. What you're talking about is cholesterol, of which you do need to consume some quantity.

You do not need to consume fat.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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1/30/2012 8:23:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
"We actually need fats -- can't live without them, in fact. Fats are an important part of a healthy diet: They provide essential fatty acids, keep our skin soft, deliver fat-soluble vitamins, and are a great source of energizing fuel. . . . The U.S. Department of Agriculture's 2005 Dietary Guidelines recommend that adults get 20%-35% of their calories from fats. At a minimum, we need at least 10% of our calories to come from fat. . . . The problem is that the typical American diet is higher in fat: Roughly 34% to 40% "
WebMD http://www.webmd.com...
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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1/31/2012 1:45:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Vegetables, fruits, and starches may contain fats and some proteins, but they also contain sugar.

Yes, but the point is, that, irregardless from where it is the fats or proteins come or whether the proteins are complete or incomplete, they have no immediate effect on serum glucose levels.

In gluconeogenesis, triglycerides are broken down and glycerol is converted into glucose to feed the cells; yet, this is only done as serum glucose levels decline. By this process, glucogenic amino acids may be converted by the liver into glucose; yet, this is done only as the body depletes it stores of fat. My point being, that, all three macronutrients have different metabolic pathways and are treated by the body differently.

All sugars raise serum glucose levels.

True. Yet, only glucose has an immediate effect on blood sugar levels.

Your body produces it's own fat, which it uses for bone marrow and insulation. What you're talking about is cholesterol, of which you do need to consume some quantity.

Cells, also, have fatty walls. For example, nerve cells have fatty walls which allow diethyl ether to be absorbed by the cells creating an anesthetic effect.
Fat is used by not only the body but, also, the cells of the body for insulation.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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1/31/2012 9:14:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/30/2012 8:23:51 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
"We actually need fats -- can't live without them, in fact. Fats are an important part of a healthy diet: They provide essential fatty acids, keep our skin soft, deliver fat-soluble vitamins, and are a great source of energizing fuel. . . . The U.S. Department of Agriculture's 2005 Dietary Guidelines recommend that adults get 20%-35% of their calories from fats. At a minimum, we need at least 10% of our calories to come from fat. . . . The problem is that the typical American diet is higher in fat: Roughly 34% to 40% "
WebMD http://www.webmd.com...

Well!

I stand corrected. Apparently, you do need to consume fat.

So, that's that! xD

That's weird... I was almost certain that you didn't need to because your body produces your own, but clearly, I was mistaken.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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2/1/2012 9:42:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If you are overweight and your nutritionist says "eat more carbs," find a new nutritionist.

Nutritionists say eat less fat because as Roy pointed out, people eat too much fat. The "healthiest" macronutrient is protein since it's thermic value is around 34%, so if you eat 1000 Calories of protein, your body "burns" 340 Calories in the digestion process, leaving only 660 Calories for your body to use (or if not used, to store as fat). Some people have petitioned the government to have the nutrition facts on food altered to reflect the higher thermic value of protein - that way nutrition facts would apply to Calories absorbed rather than Calories in the food itself.

Most people need to eat less red meat and more lean protein (poultry and fish).

Carbs can be healthy or unhealthy. Processed white bread - unhealthy. Fiber - healthy.

Fat can be healthy or unhealthy. Healthy - Omega 3 fat in fish (the grey part in a piece of salmon). Unhealthy - bacon fat.

Protein is universally healthy, although beware of cholesterol. Don't eat more than 2 egg yolks per day, if you can help it (as that is more than 100% of your daily value of cholesterol).
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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2/4/2012 10:52:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/1/2012 9:42:24 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Nutritionists say eat less fat because as Roy pointed out, people eat too much fat.

According to the USDA, Americans eat fewer grams of fat, today, than they did forty years ago; and, according to the CDC, we are fatter than we were forty years ago.

Fat can be healthy or unhealthy. Healthy - Omega 3 fat in fish (the grey part in a piece of salmon). Unhealthy - bacon fat.

According to the USDA's National Nutrient Database for Standard reference, the composition of lard is 47% monounsaturated fat, of which 90% is oleic acid (the same fat found in olive oil). Slightly more than 40% is saturated, but one third of the saturated fatty acids is stearic acid; which has been found to raise HDL cholesterol while having no effect on LDL. The remaining fatty acid profile is polyunsaturated; which actually lowers LDL cholesterol. More than 70% of the fat found in lard has been found to improve one's cholesterol profile. While the fatty acids that remain may raise LDL cholesterol, they, also, raise HDL.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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2/4/2012 11:53:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
the reason fats are demonized is probably because of their high energy content- gram for gram you get more calories from fats than carbs. telling people to cut back on how much fat they consume is a pretty easy way to get them to consume fewer overall calories. except usually what happens is that people will consume about the same number of calories from different sources, so they end up seriously over-consuming carbs.

also the people consuming these sorts of messages like simple answers- do x not y and you can have everything you want, problem solved... huzzah! anyone who knows what they're talking about though, knows that fats are essential to the diet... the idea that "all fats are bad" was debunked a long time ago.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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2/4/2012 1:17:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/30/2012 2:17:50 PM, Ren wrote:
At 1/27/2012 10:40:11 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/26/2012 9:37:16 PM, Ren wrote:
Your question... sigh. Well, if you really want to know the answer...

Your body needs five things from your diet in varying proportions for optimal nutrition: vitamins, minerals, cholesterol, water, and sugar.

Anything that isn't the prior four, the body converts into sugar, unless it's indigestible. Fiber, for example, is not a vitamin or mineral, nor is it cholesterol or water, and your body doesn't convert it into sugar. Thusly, it is indigestible, and passes through your digestive system relatively unchanged, although some believe that soluble fiber ferments in the small intestine.

That makes fat 100%, thoroughly extraneous.
That's a complete non-sequitir.

Prove it.
you don't "prove" a non-sequitir, it simply doesn't follow, it's your job to prove it DOES follow.


Carbohydrates, which the body needs for energy (converts into sugar), are not. They are essential.
Fat is converted into sugar too.

Uhhh, no. Sugar is converted into fat once your body stores enough glycogen, then converts the fat into fatty acids and ketones when you don't ingest enough carbohydrates to operate your body.
Ketones are often sugars (for example, fructose is a ketone), the glycerol that comes from this process is converted by the liver into sugar.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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2/4/2012 1:20:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
That's weird... I was almost certain that you didn't need to because your body produces your own, but clearly, I was mistaken.
Even if the body produced all the fat it needs (it's certainly capable of producing most of it), that still wouldn't make it "nonessential," you couldn't just remove the organs that make it and get away with it ^_^
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.