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Between the cracks

PervRat
Posts: 963
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8/11/2009 1:25:49 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I'm a frustrated evil socialist who likes to whine a lot. Why else would I go to DDO?

Anyway things just eat at me. I fall between a lot of cracks, including health care. My employer considers me medically unfit to work, and that status means I do not qualify for unemployment. At the same time, I do not qualify for disability because I must be proven by a doctor to be medically unfit for work for an entire year ... I had a signed note from a doctor, when I managed to scrounge up money to go from my tax refund, that said I /was/ fit to return to duty, but my employer ignored it though I filed the original note with them.

I lost my place to stay. I have defaulted on my student loan and on medical bills. I have zero income and zero assets. By a right winger's definition, its all my fault. I am sick and tired of this b.s. I keep hearing "I don't wanna pay for my neighbor's hospital bill!"

So instead of paying a few hundred per year to make sure no one gets denied health care, you'd rather pay thousands to fatten HMO CEOs to come between you and your doctor and ensure there's an underpriveleged class and people like my late wife and I can just suffer and die?

18,000 people die each and every year because they lack regular access to a doctor. This puts our health care system as being on par with a third-world country. Medicare and Medicade are -ten times- as efficient monetarily on health care (that is, 97 cents of every dollar going into Medicare goes to pay medical bills, the remaining 3 cents is administrative costs; only 70 cents of every dollar paid into health care premiums through an HMO actually pay for health care; the remaining 30 cents go to administrative costs -- chiefly stock dividends and CEO salaries).

Every time I turn around, I hear more lies, and a right-wing movement has exploded to disrupt town hall meetings throughout the country from a group called "Conservatives for Patients' Rights" founded by Rick Scott who was fired from overbilling fedeal and state health plans when he was running a for-profit hospital that had to pay $1.7 billion for that fraud. These people crying foul about health care for all are giving their faith and allegiance to health care fraud.

Its absolutely maddening to me ... really, if this astroturf nonsense wins the day, there really is no hope for America.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/11/2009 1:36:36 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
There is missing information in the "3% versus 30%" administrative costs thing, ESPECIALLY if, as you claim, profit margins are "chief" here. Why haven't all these smart liberals taken advantage of this supposed information to cut down the profit margins, to, say, half that by starting a new HMO? They'd literally destroy their competition and still make exorbitant profits. The fact that this hasn't happened contradicts the tale of those costs.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
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8/11/2009 1:38:54 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/11/2009 1:36:36 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
There is missing information in the "3% versus 30%" administrative costs thing, ESPECIALLY if, as you claim, profit margins are "chief" here. Why haven't all these smart liberals taken advantage of this supposed information to cut down the profit margins, to, say, half that by starting a new HMO? They'd literally destroy their competition and still make exorbitant profits. The fact that this hasn't happened contradicts the tale of those costs.

So what you are saying is: that because people have not made this argument in the mainstream, it must not be true?
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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8/11/2009 1:44:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/11/2009 1:25:49 PM, PervRat wrote:
I lost my place to stay. I have defaulted on my student loan and on medical bills. I have zero income and zero assets. By a right winger's definition, its all my fault.
From the political compass quiz I took I'm a right winger, but I wouldn't say it's "all your fault". I think it might be somewhat your fault if you stop looking for work, but no, in a fascist/socialist economy like this, I'm pretty sure there's no valid reason to say "it's all your fault", even if we count out coincidences.

I am sick and tired of this b.s. I keep hearing "I don't wanna pay for my neighbor's hospital bill!"
Well what're you gonna do? Force them pay for you?

So instead of paying a few hundred per year to make sure no one gets denied health care, you'd rather pay thousands to fatten HMO CEOs to come between you and your doctor and ensure there's an underpriveleged class and people like my late wife and I can just suffer and die?
Heh, well, trends in American history show us that if we go and make UHC it'll get even worse. See video...

18,000 people die each and every year because they lack regular access to a doctor. This puts our health care system as being on par with a third-world country.
I don't follow 1) how that makes us on par with a third world country, 2) how that is the fault of private companies, 3) why that justifies UHC.

Medicare and Medicade are -ten times- as efficient monetarily on health care (that is, 97 cents of every dollar going into Medicare goes to pay medical bills, the remaining 3 cents is administrative costs; only 70 cents of every dollar paid into health care premiums through an HMO actually pay for health care; the remaining 30 cents go to administrative costs -- chiefly stock dividends and CEO salaries).
HA HA HA that's not funny. that's just wrong. and by wrong i mean incorrect.

Every time I turn around, I hear more lies, and a right-wing movement has exploded to disrupt town hall meetings throughout the country from a group called "Conservatives for Patients' Rights" founded by Rick Scott who was fired from overbilling fedeal and state health plans when he was running a for-profit hospital that had to pay $1.7 billion for that fraud. These people crying foul about health care for all are giving their faith and allegiance to health care fraud.
Which is only possible because people can get away with fraud while there's a government like this one around.

Its absolutely maddening to me ... really, if this astroturf nonsense wins the day, there really is no hope for America.
It's not like Obama is going to save you either. His science advisor thinks it's a good idea to force abortions and mass sterilizations because we have to save the planet.
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/11/2009 1:45:25 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/11/2009 1:38:54 PM, JBlake wrote:
At 8/11/2009 1:36:36 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
There is missing information in the "3% versus 30%" administrative costs thing, ESPECIALLY if, as you claim, profit margins are "chief" here. Why haven't all these smart liberals taken advantage of this supposed information to cut down the profit margins, to, say, half that by starting a new HMO? They'd literally destroy their competition and still make exorbitant profits. The fact that this hasn't happened contradicts the tale of those costs.

So what you are saying is: that because people have not made this argument in the mainstream, it must not be true?
That is not at all a translation. First of all, it is mainstream liberals making this argument. What I am saying is-- If it is true, then all those liberals who claim it is true (many of whom are very rich) would be even richer by now because they would have started a new business, put the othe ones out of business, and made it untrue. 30% is a lot of room to chip away at. If so many people are so confident of this (and they are), put your money where your mouth is, and whatever cost cutting measures it is you think the government has-- implement them in your business. Government has no exclusive access to any economic principle, except violence. If the cost-cutting measure is nonviolent, implement it in a business and prove it's validity. Get rich and fix a problem all at the same time. That is how riches happen-- people find out when there are costs that don't need to happen, and figure out how to cut them out in a new business.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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8/11/2009 2:33:54 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/11/2009 1:44:29 PM, Rezzealaux wrote:
At 8/11/2009 1:25:49 PM, PervRat wrote:
Medicare and Medicade are -ten times- as efficient monetarily on health care (that is, 97 cents of every dollar going into Medicare goes to pay medical bills, the remaining 3 cents is administrative costs; only 70 cents of every dollar paid into health care premiums through an HMO actually pay for health care; the remaining 30 cents go to administrative costs -- chiefly stock dividends and CEO salaries).
HA HA HA that's not funny. that's just wrong. and by wrong i mean incorrect.

I think you should explain why.

I agree with Pervrat and think free basic healthcare is a requirement for a civilised society.

I am also relieved to see that that's what this thread is about, the combination of Pervrat, the title and it's presence in the health forum lead me to a far more disturbing conclusion and I was prepared for the worst! lol
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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8/11/2009 2:38:09 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/11/2009 2:33:54 PM, feverish wrote:
At 8/11/2009 1:44:29 PM, Rezzealaux wrote:
At 8/11/2009 1:25:49 PM, PervRat wrote:
Medicare and Medicade are -ten times- as efficient monetarily on health care (that is, 97 cents of every dollar going into Medicare goes to pay medical bills, the remaining 3 cents is administrative costs; only 70 cents of every dollar paid into health care premiums through an HMO actually pay for health care; the remaining 30 cents go to administrative costs -- chiefly stock dividends and CEO salaries).
HA HA HA that's not funny. that's just wrong. and by wrong i mean incorrect.

I think you should explain why.
See R_R's post. He explained it pretty well. It's also explained in the video I posted.
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/11/2009 8:11:06 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I agree with Pervrat and think free basic healthcare is a requirement for a civilised society.
By that definition a civilized society can never exist, because there is no such thing as free in a generalized sense, ever, ever, ever. It can be free to you, if I pay for it. It can be free to me, if you pay for it. It cannot be free to every referent of the general "society." Believe me, if we could just wave a magic fairy wand and make instant health care that is free to everyone, there would be far fewer opponents.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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8/11/2009 8:20:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Lol. I love this post.

1) Why is it other people's duty to pay for your troubles? It's not our fault you fail at life. And it's not the CEO of Goldman Sach's fault either.

2) Get off DDO. There's tons of online jobs you can do. For example, you can fill out surveys for money.

3) Still not my fault and not my problem.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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8/11/2009 8:44:27 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/11/2009 8:20:33 PM, Nags wrote:
Lol. I love this post.

1) Why is it other people's duty to pay for your troubles? It's not our fault you fail at life. And it's not the CEO of Goldman Sach's fault either.

If you've profited off the stock prices that increased as the result of these shenanigans American corporations pull on their own employees, it is.

2) Get off DDO. There's tons of online jobs you can do. For example, you can fill out surveys for money.

Those pay a whopping what, 18 cents/month? I get forty bucks per week under the table for scooping out a shed full (and i mean full, wall to wall, floor to ceiling) of garbage which seems to primarily be used baby diapers and cat litter in garbage bags that have been shredded by rats. Yeah I'm a horrible illegal worker stealing jobs. So stick me in an electric chair.

There are virtually no legitimate online jobs. I've been hunting for over a decade for one. I've applied for dozens of janitorial, dog kennel and lawn service jobs every week, but our unemployment rate here is in the double digits and even for those jobs, I'm having to compete with people who have degrees which I lack and cannot get.

3) Still not my fault and not my problem.

So you'd rather pay more money to make sure I don't get any help than less money to make sure everyone gets help? Truly mind boggling.

Oh and for those wanting a reference on HMO vs. Medicare costs: http://www.larouchepub.com...
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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8/11/2009 9:05:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/11/2009 8:44:27 PM, PervRat wrote:
If you've profited off the stock prices that increased as the result of these shenanigans American corporations pull on their own employees, it is.

I'll sum up what your saying:
-Person A owns stock in XYZ. Stock XYZ increases. Thus, Person A must pay for Person B's troubles.
-CEO A is the CEO of XYZ. XYZ makes money, thus CEO A's salary is raised. Thus, CEO A must pay for Person B's troubles.

Even more precise:
-If you make money, you must give extra to Person B.

Those pay a whopping what, 18 cents/month? I get forty bucks per week under the table for scooping out a shed full (and i mean full, wall to wall, floor to ceiling) of garbage which seems to primarily be used baby diapers and cat litter in garbage bags that have been shredded by rats. Yeah I'm a horrible illegal worker stealing jobs. So stick me in an electric chair.

There are virtually no legitimate online jobs. I've been hunting for over a decade for one. I've applied for dozens of janitorial, dog kennel and lawn service jobs every week, but our unemployment rate here is in the double digits and even for those jobs, I'm having to compete with people who have degrees which I lack and cannot get.

But seriously... I'm 16 years old. I make $8.25 per hour at my job. A 33 year old man (with a high school degree?) should be making at least that. No excuses.

So you'd rather pay more money to make sure I don't get any help than less money to make sure everyone gets help? Truly mind boggling.

Huh? Your post makes no sense.

Oh and for those wanting a reference on HMO vs. Medicare costs: http://www.larouchepub.com...

I stopped reading after the article said "...Budget Director Peter Orzag and the rest of the White House Nazi doctors..."

Talk about terrible credibility...
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/11/2009 9:19:55 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
"Numerous studies have shown" is also a problem with that source. Anyone can say "Numerous studies have shown" x. Basically, you've shown a source that failed to show it's source. It's not a primary source, so it's not really excusable. I see those numbers all over the internet, as a matter of fact, but I have no idea where the meme originated.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
USAPitBull63
Posts: 668
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8/11/2009 9:28:01 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/11/2009 8:44:27 PM, PervRat wrote:

If you've profited off the stock prices that increased as the result of these shenanigans American corporations pull on their own employees, it is.

1.) If you've profited from the stock market during the economic crunch, you should be commended and encouraged to keep investing and help solidify more confidence in market stability.

2.) If you invested in a company that completely bamboozled its investors/constituents, you likely didn't profit. Big time.

Those pay a whopping what, 18 cents/month? I get forty bucks per week under the table for scooping out a shed full (and i mean full, wall to wall, floor to ceiling) of garbage which seems to primarily be used baby diapers and cat litter in garbage bags that have been shredded by rats. Yeah I'm a horrible illegal worker stealing jobs. So stick me in an electric chair.

Okay, here's the plan:

Add that last paragraph to your resume under "job experience" and apply at your local Chuck E. Cheese's. You can do the exact same work, of which you seem to be quite proud, for at least 3x as much money! It won't even take you a decade.

And the best part? It requires no Internet!

There are virtually no legitimate online jobs. I've been hunting for over a decade for one. I've applied for dozens of janitorial, dog kennel and lawn service jobs every week, but our unemployment rate here is in the double digits and even for those jobs, I'm having to compete with people who have degrees which I lack and cannot get.

You have virtually no legitimate plan for acquiring respectable employment. I wonder how many "legitimate online jobs" have been established, enhanced, and expanded over the past 12 years. I bet it's more than any reasonable estimate of "virtually no[ne]."

So you'd rather pay more money to make sure I don't get any help than less money to make sure everyone gets help? Truly mind boggling.

1.) Huh?

2.) Speaking of paying less money, how do you manage to pay for monthly Internet?

3.) Do you know how many Americans face similar, if not worse, odds than you---and find a way to thrive? MANY. They didn't ask for government assistance to pay for their self-pity parties, either.

4.) I hope this is a joke, like "punk'd" or something.

5.) Seriously, how do you manage to afford Internet each month?

Oh and for those wanting a reference on HMO vs. Medicare costs: http://www.larouchepub.com...

And for those wanting a reference on how to find work that pays better than $40/week, regardless of educational experience:

http://www.monster.com...

http://www.careerbuilder.com...

http://www.theladders.com... (Why not?)

http://www.chuckecheese.com... (With school starting soon, it's a great time to apply.)

Good luck!
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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8/12/2009 12:39:27 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/11/2009 9:28:01 PM, USAPitBull63 wrote:
And for those wanting a reference on how to find work that pays better than $40/week, regardless of educational experience:

http://www.monster.com...

http://www.careerbuilder.com...

http://www.theladders.com... (Why not?)

http://www.chuckecheese.com... (With school starting soon, it's a great time to apply.)

Good luck!

I love you man.
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
PervRat
Posts: 963
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8/12/2009 8:48:21 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Goes without saying I'm on every job search in the area. I'm probably spending 60 hours/week hunting. But minimum-wage jobs are going to persons with degrees. And my credit score is probably getting me blacklisted as well.
Osiris
Posts: 265
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8/12/2009 11:26:56 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Even with programs such as Medicare and Medicaid a lot of people slip through the cracks. I'm talking about the people who are too old for Medicaid and too young for Medicare. That would include most if not all college students like myself. It sucks. If I stopped going to school full time for any reason I would have no health insurance. I agree with PervRat on this post.
"Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire
Osiris
Posts: 265
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8/12/2009 11:46:33 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/11/2009 9:05:29 PM, Nags wrote:
At 8/11/2009 8:44:27 PM, PervRat wrote:
If you've profited off the stock prices that increased as the result of these shenanigans American corporations pull on their own employees, it is.

I'll sum up what your saying:
-Person A owns stock in XYZ. Stock XYZ increases. Thus, Person A must pay for Person B's troubles.
-CEO A is the CEO of XYZ. XYZ makes money, thus CEO A's salary is raised. Thus, CEO A must pay for Person B's troubles.

Even more precise:
-If you make money, you must give extra to Person B.

I don't think that's what he's saying exactly. My interpretation is that because Person A makes more than a substantial amount of money, Person A should not be greatly affected by contributing some of that wealth to Person B to ensure that Person B is alive next week :)

Those pay a whopping what, 18 cents/month? I get forty bucks per week under the table for scooping out a shed full (and i mean full, wall to wall, floor to ceiling) of garbage which seems to primarily be used baby diapers and cat litter in garbage bags that have been shredded by rats. Yeah I'm a horrible illegal worker stealing jobs. So stick me in an electric chair.

There are virtually no legitimate online jobs. I've been hunting for over a decade for one. I've applied for dozens of janitorial, dog kennel and lawn service jobs every week, but our unemployment rate here is in the double digits and even for those jobs, I'm having to compete with people who have degrees which I lack and cannot get.

But seriously... I'm 16 years old. I make $8.25 per hour at my job. A 33 year old man (with a high school degree?) should be making at least that. No excuses.

Um yes excuses. You're only 16 and still can be covered by Medicaid if you qualify. Also you're most likely a dependent because you still live with your parents because they still claim you as such on their taxes, which means you have health insurance through your parents or their employers. Also you don't know what the job market is like in his area, so to knock him for not being able to get a job is ludicrous. I honestly don't see how you can judge because you're not a independent adult and don't know the woes of the world so to speak. If all or any of what I said is true about your current status, then you have no experience in what he is going through.

So you'd rather pay more money to make sure I don't get any help than less money to make sure everyone gets help? Truly mind boggling.

Huh? Your post makes no sense.

He is referring to an earlier post about fattening up HMO CEOs.

Oh and for those wanting a reference on HMO vs. Medicare costs: http://www.larouchepub.com...

I stopped reading after the article said "...Budget Director Peter Orzag and the rest of the White House Nazi doctors..."

Talk about terrible credibility...
"Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire
USAPitBull63
Posts: 668
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8/12/2009 3:49:58 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/12/2009 11:46:33 AM, Osiris wrote:

I don't think that's what he's saying exactly. My interpretation is that because Person A makes more than a substantial amount of money, Person A should not be greatly affected by contributing some of that wealth to Person B to ensure that Person B is alive next week :)

TRANSLATION: All we're saying is socialism isn't that bad. Give it a chance.

Um yes excuses. You're only 16 and still can be covered by Medicaid if you qualify. Also you're most likely a dependent because you still live with your parents because they still claim you as such on their taxes, which means you have health insurance through your parents or their employers. Also you don't know what the job market is like in his area, so to knock him for not being able to get a job is ludicrous. I honestly don't see how you can judge because you're not a independent adult and don't know the woes of the world so to speak. If all or any of what I said is true about your current status, then you have no experience in what he is going through.

1.) Perv probably doesn't know what his local job market is like because, by his own testimony, he spends way too much time online (including on this web site).

2.) Actually, we do get a pretty good idea of what his local job market is like. He allegedly gets $40/week to clean rat-infested, dirty diaper closets. For ten years, he's had to compete against college graduates in the cut-throat industries of dog kennel maintenance, lawn care, and custodial arts. (From the sound of his environment, one would think garbage men should be in demand.)

So "knocking" Perv for not getting a job in ten years, while somehow managing to pay for a computer, electricity, and Internet bills each month---is anything but ludicrous.

(Maybe we should let him know that searching the World of Warcraft for a steady job may not be the best strategy.)

3.) I am an independent adult. I know the "woes of the world." And I agree with Nags.

At 8/12/2009 12:39:27 AM, Rezzealaux wrote:

I love you man.

I appreciate it.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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8/13/2009 8:16:48 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
1.) Perv probably doesn't know what his local job market is like because, by his own testimony, he spends way too much time online (including on this web site).

Aside from the fact that until February when I got kicked to the curb when I developed a repetitive strain injury that's too contested to persue without a few million dollars for a lawyer, I was able to pay my bills and live on my own.

Of course, you're an expert and know more, or so you claim.

2.) Actually, we do get a pretty good idea of what his local job market is like. He allegedly gets $40/week to clean rat-infested, dirty diaper closets. For ten years, he's had to compete against college graduates in the cut-throat industries of dog kennel maintenance, lawn care, and custodial arts. (From the sound of his nvironment, one would think garbage men should be in demand.)

So "knocking" Perv for not getting a job in ten years, while somehow managing to pay for a computer, electricity, and Internet bills each month---is anything but ludicrous.

Where did you get the notion I haven't worked a job in ten years? I've done office work, call center work, ran several websites, warehouse labor, lawn maintenance and working in a dog kennel since 1999 (10 years). The last of these was the most enjoyable for me, as dogs are ten times better than people.

Again, of course, you know best. You make up stories about everyone who is poor to justify the tyranny by the rich. Every time I got laid off, the company stock price rose and the executives and stockholders got rich over throwing people on the street. Eventually, of course, the pyramid collapses ... there are too many people with zero assets, those outrageously ever-worsening mortgages collapse, people don't have money to buy and ohnoez, how did this happen!?

(Maybe we should let him know that searching the World of Warcraft for a steady job may not be the best strategy.)

I've never played WoW.

3.) I am an independent adult. I know the "woes of the world." And I agree with Nags.

Yeah, just like you know me. I know exactly how to rate your judgement.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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8/13/2009 8:21:11 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I'll sum up what your saying:
-Person A owns stock in XYZ. Stock XYZ increases. Thus, Person A must pay for Person B's troubles.
-CEO A is the CEO of XYZ. XYZ makes money, thus CEO A's salary is raised. Thus, CEO A must pay for Person B's troubles.

You fail at summing up.

-Person A owns stock in XYZ.
-XYZ lays off all their workers, including Person A.
-XYZ replaces workers with Chinese political slave labor.
-XYZ saves even more money by not abiding by any U.S. environmental laws, since all their production is now in China
-XYZ's stock rises, its CEO and stockholders get rich
-The CEO and stockholders use some of their money to pay for ads convincing America how bad it would be to help get person A back on their feet and on equal footing.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/13/2009 8:23:35 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/11/2009 2:33:54 PM, feverish wrote:
I agree with Pervrat and think free basic healthcare is a requirement for a civilised society.

I fully agree with that as well.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
USAPitBull63
Posts: 668
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8/13/2009 9:01:28 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/13/2009 8:16:48 AM, PervRat wrote:

Aside from the fact that until February when I got kicked to the curb when I developed a repetitive strain injury that's too contested to persue without a few million dollars for a lawyer, I was able to pay my bills and live on my own.

1.) The vast majority of lawyers don't charge a "few million dollars" for their services, especially if you have a good case/claim (one with a decent chance of winning any legal action).

And if you win, approximately 33% will go for legal fees. So if your attorney costs millions of dollars, woo hoo! That means you'll likely have won millions in settlement or damages! Go get 'em, champ.

Of course, you're an expert and know more, or so you claim.

Show me where I claimed to be an expert. But I'm flattered you think so. :)

Where did you get the notion I haven't worked a job in ten years? I've done office work, call center work, ran several websites, warehouse labor, lawn maintenance and working in a dog kennel since 1999 (10 years). The last of these was the most enjoyable for me, as dogs are ten times better than people.

1.) Where did you get the notion that I said you haven't worked in 10 years? I said, "For ten years, [you've] had to compete against college graduates in the cut-throat industries of dog kennel maintenance, lawn care, and custodial arts."

I'd love an explanation of how competing for jobs means you haven't worked at all in 10 years.

2.) To answer your question, I got the notion of how much a struggle it's been for you---from you. The following were your own words:

At 8/11/2009 8:44:27 PM, PervRat wrote:
There are virtually no legitimate online jobs. I've been hunting for over a decade for one.

3.) I like dogs, too.

Again, of course, you know best. You make up stories about everyone who is poor to justify the tyranny by the rich. Every time I got laid off, the company stock price rose and the executives and stockholders got rich over throwing people on the street. Eventually, of course, the pyramid collapses ... there are too many people with zero assets, those outrageously ever-worsening mortgages collapse, people don't have money to buy and ohnoez, how did this happen!?

1.) Thanks again for the compliment.

2.) I made up stories? Cool, I hope I can get them published. (I'll dedicate one to you, Perv.)

3.) How did it happen? Right-wingers, Perv. It is always the right-wingers' fault.

4.) I'll address the irony of what you just said in a moment.

I've never played WoW.

That makes two of us.

But still, it's not a good place to seek employment. So I stand by my previous comment.

Yeah, just like you know me. I know exactly how to rate your judgement.

1.) You implicitly criticize me for presuming I know too much about you, when all of my knowledge (of you) came from your own posts. Try not to be so revealing next time.

2.) Now a quick lesson on irony:

Here is a sequence of your posts:
Of course, you're an expert and know more, or so you claim.
Again, of course, you know best.
"You make up stories about everyone who is poor to justify the tyranny by the rich."
Yeah, just like you know me. I know exactly how to rate your judgement.

So you implicitly criticize me for presuming I know too much about you; then you go on to declare, as fact, what I don't do ("make up stories")---nevertheless, to a degree I don't do it ("about everyone who is poor")---all for a reason why that I've yet to attempt ("to justify the tyranny by the rich").

And you top it all off by saying you know exactly how to judge me.

Well done, Perv.

3.) Lastly, I actually gave you great advice for how to better your situation, as well as sources to help you get there. And this is the thanks I get? The poor cannot be helped if they won't accept it.

Good luck with things.
Osiris
Posts: 265
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8/13/2009 10:14:00 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/13/2009 9:01:28 AM, USAPitBull63 wrote:

3.) Lastly, I actually gave you great advice for how to better your situation, as well as sources to help you get there. And this is the thanks I get? The poor cannot be helped if they won't accept it.

Good luck with things.

The poor are people with dignity and lives. They don't want to be infantilized or insulted by people like you. They shouldn't have to feel ashamed or be degraded because of their situation (especially if it's not their fault). You seriously don't think he's tried Monster and Career Builder? I think you should reserve judgment unless you've been in a similar predicament.

Also maybe Socialism isn't bad, maybe we should give it a try.
"Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/13/2009 10:49:47 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/13/2009 10:14:00 AM, Osiris wrote:
At 8/13/2009 9:01:28 AM, USAPitBull63 wrote:


3.) Lastly, I actually gave you great advice for how to better your situation, as well as sources to help you get there. And this is the thanks I get? The poor cannot be helped if they won't accept it.

Good luck with things.


The poor are people with dignity and lives. They don't want to be infantilized
Then wean them?

Also maybe Socialism isn't bad, maybe we should give it a try.
Depending on what you mean by it, head to Europe or Canada and give it a try, or head to Myanmar, Cuba, or North Korea. Leave me out of it, there is no we.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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8/13/2009 10:55:50 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/13/2009 10:14:00 AM, Osiris wrote:
The poor are people with dignity and lives. They don't want to be infantilized
therefore, we treat them like infants? Because that's essentially what UHC does.

or insulted by people like you. They shouldn't have to feel ashamed or be degraded because of their situation (especially if it's not their fault).
Nobody is making them feel that way but themselves.

Also maybe Socialism isn't bad, maybe we should give it a try.
And we have tried a little of it, and the rest of the world has tried a lot. It is bad.
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
PervRat
Posts: 963
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8/13/2009 2:12:35 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/13/2009 9:01:28 AM, USAPitBull63 wrote:
At 8/13/2009 8:16:48 AM, PervRat wrote:

Aside from the fact that until February when I got kicked to the curb when I developed a repetitive strain injury that's too contested to persue without a few million dollars for a lawyer, I was able to pay my bills and live on my own.

1.) The vast majority of lawyers don't charge a "few million dollars" for their services, especially if you have a good case/claim (one with a decent chance of winning any legal action).

I had over $10,000 in unpaid wages owed to me, but I made inquiries with four different lawyers, each of whom said they wouldn't touch a case for less than $50,000. (The wages never got paid, and in the state they were owed in -- Texas -- there's essentially a statute of limitations on unpaid wages of 6 -months-.)

And if you win, approximately 33% will go for legal fees. So if your attorney costs millions of dollars, woo hoo! That means you'll likely have won millions in settlement or damages! Go get 'em, champ.

Wish I knew where you get your lawyers. I get laughed out the door whenever I seek help from one.

Of course, you're an expert and know more, or so you claim.

Show me where I claimed to be an expert. But I'm flattered you think so. :)

Your replete assumptions you make about me.

Where did you get the notion I haven't worked a job in ten years? I've done office work, call center work, ran several websites, warehouse labor, lawn maintenance and working in a dog kennel since 1999 (10 years). The last of these was the most enjoyable for me, as dogs are ten times better than people.

1.) Where did you get the notion that I said you haven't worked in 10 years? I said, "For ten years, [you've] had to compete against college graduates in the cut-throat industries of dog kennel maintenance, lawn care, and custodial arts."

I've had a broader range of jobs than that. I'm not sure where you got the 10 years number or got the notion that those are the only jobs I've worked. Those seem to be made-up presumptions on your part.

I'd love an explanation of how competing for jobs means you haven't worked at all in 10 years.

===
At 8/12/2009 3:49:58 PM, USAPitBull63 wrote:
... So "knocking" Perv for not getting a job in ten years, while somehow managing to pay for a computer, electricity, and Internet bills each month---is anything but ludicrous ...
===

I don't see why nor how I owe anyone an explanation for something you made up about me.

2.) To answer your question, I got the notion of how much a struggle it's been for you---from you. The following were your own words:

At 8/11/2009 8:44:27 PM, PervRat wrote:
There are virtually no legitimate onlinejobs. I've been hunting for over a decade for one.

ONLINE. Every "online" job I've tried checking out has proven a scam ... fortunately I was only taken by one, about 11 years ago. Since then, I've been a lot more cautious and do some investigation before I so much as e-mail an application somewhere. Based on that experience, I strongly urge caution on the part of anyone trying to find a telecommute job. Of course, feel free to ignore anything I say. You seem to have no problem ignoring what I've said and making up your own story about who or what I am, or what my "story" is.

3.) I like dogs, too.

Again, of course, you know best. You make up stories about everyone who is poor to justify the tyranny by the rich. Every time I got laid off, the company stock price rose and the executives and stockholders got rich over throwing people on the street. Eventually, of course, the pyramid collapses ... there are too many people with zero assets, those outrageously ever-worsening mortgages collapse, people don't have money to buy and ohnoez, how did this happen!?

1.) Thanks again for the compliment.

2.) I made up stories? Cool, I hope I can get them published. (I'll dedicate one to you, Perv.)

You already all. This is a website, a forum. Any false statements you make on here about a private person is technically libel. Rest assured, though, I don't have money for a lawyer.

3.) How did it happen? Right-wingers, Perv. It is always the right-wingers' fault.

Those who gain by making others lose. In other words, yes, right-wingers.

4.) I'll address the irony of what you just said in a moment.


Not sure which part of what I just said you'll address ...

I've never played WoW.

That makes two of us.

But still, it's not a good place to seek employment. So I stand by my previous comment.

I don't seek employment on a game I don't play. Your illogic is befuddling.

Yeah, just like you know me. I know exactly how to rate your judgement.

1.) You implicitly criticize me for presuming I know too much about you, when all of my knowledge (of you) came from your own posts. Try not to be so revealing next time.

Your knowledge you claim about me, such as the notion I have not had a job in 10 years, is made up and not from anything I said. That's either an unintentional delusion or willful libel. Which is it?

2.) Now a quick lesson on irony:

Here is a sequence of your posts:
Of course, you're an expert and know more, or so you claim.
Again, of course, you know best.
"You make up stories about everyone who is poor to justify the tyranny by the rich."
Yeah, just like you know me. I know exactly how to rate your judgement.

So you implicitly criticize me for presuming I know too much about you; then you go on to declare, as fact, what I don't do ("make up stories")---nevertheless, to a degree I don't do it ("about everyone who is poor")---all for a reason why that I've yet to attempt ("to justify the tyranny by the rich").

I've explicitly repeated your own made-up claim about me. Unless you can point out where I claimed to have not gotten a job in 10 years, your statement you made characterizing my work history was fictitious, not based on anything I said but made up. That makes it a fact you make up stories. You keep doing this to argue against me and my point that those with higher-than-average wealth have acquired that wealth through bleeding the poor; this is further evidenced by the every-widening gap between rich and poor. The % of the population in the U.S. that lives below the poverty line is rising alongside the amount of wealth owned by the elite. The "trickle-down" economic theory is disastrously false, as is the notion that de-regulation is a good thing and those with economic and commercial authority and power use their means wisely and for the betterment of everyone versus the evil public servants in socialist government bureaus.

And you top it all off by saying you know exactly how to judge me.

Well done, Perv.

You make up a claim that I have not worked in 10 years. That gives me good cause to disbelieve you on subjects on which I do not have an educated perspective on. That's called credibility, sir; you've lost yours to me by your behavior thus far.

3.) Lastly, I actually gave you great advice for how to better your situation, as well as sources to help you get there. And this is the thanks I get? The poor cannot be helped if they won't accept it.

Good luck with things.

You've presumed I don't have active job searches going with a variety of job searches, another made-up claim. You act on the presumption that anyone can get a job anytime they want, which is another made-up claim, one that I have found to be common among conservatives. A job is today what a horse was a century ago -- something your life depends on. Horse thieves were hanged because of how badly having one's horse would cripple someone's ability to survive and earn a living. What should we do to the rich who steal from the poor?
PervRat
Posts: 963
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8/13/2009 2:17:46 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/13/2009 10:55:50 AM, Rezzealaux wrote:
At 8/13/2009 10:14:00 AM, Osiris wrote:
The poor are people with dignity and lives. They don't want to be infantilized
therefore, we treat them like infants? Because that's essentially what UHC does.

UHC treats the poor the same as the rich ... its called equality. Why should you have a right to live free of illness just because you are wealthy and lucky while other die because they have no access to basic preventive care? Why does the richest country in the planet have a health care system that the World Health Organization ranks as being on par with third-world countries like Cuba in terms of access to preventive care, infant mortality rates, etc.?

or insulted by people like you. They shouldn't have to feel ashamed or be degraded because of their situation (especially if it's not their fault).
Nobody is making them feel that way but themselves.

Nobody except those who claim the poor have no right to equal access to health care, that everyone who is poor is poor because of their own irresponsibility and failings, and those who are rich and profit off the poor deserve the rewards of being healthier than the unworthy poor.

Also maybe Socialism isn't bad, maybe we should give it a try.
And we have tried a little of it, and the rest of the world has tried a lot. It is bad.

If by bad, you mean best in the world. Canada, France, Britain are miles ahead of us in the quality of their health care, access to preventive medicine, infant mortality rates and other measures of health care ... and they pay far less per capita than we do, and that's not even a matter of currency anymore -- the Canadian dollar has exceeded the U.S. dollar in value several time the past several years.
USAPitBull63
Posts: 668
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8/13/2009 5:28:50 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/13/2009 10:14:00 AM, Osiris wrote:

The poor are people with dignity and lives.

Apparently, the poor have good enough lives to sign online and tell a debate web site all about how horrible the world (or, at least, its right-wing portion) is. And it takes a ton of dignity to do that.

They don't want to be infantilized or insulted by people like you.

Right, they just want free reign to insult people like me, and millions of others, and to blame us for their own problems.

And Perv, not I, was the one who mentioned "baby diapers." A whole shed full of them, no less.

That said, I'll try to be more careful with my "infantiliz[ing]."

They shouldn't have to feel ashamed or be degraded because of their situation (especially if it's not their fault).

You're right, Osiris. "[S]cooping out a shed full (and i mean full, wall to wall, floor to ceiling) of garbage which seems to primarily be used baby diapers and cat litter in garbage bags that have been shredded by rats" (for $40/week) is not shameful and degrading.

But ranting about it publicly, blaming only "right-wingers" and corporations for it, is.

(And whose fault is that?)

You seriously don't think he's tried Monster and Career Builder?

He says he has, so maybe.

But then again, he also said that he "scoop[s] out a shed full (and i mean full, wall to wall, floor to ceiling) of garbage which seems to primarily be used baby diapers and cat litter in garbage bags that have been shredded by rats" for $40 per week---and that it's all the fault of right-wingers and corporations.

So who knows?

I think you should reserve judgment unless you've been in a similar predicament.

Perhaps you should take your own advice.
USAPitBull63
Posts: 668
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8/13/2009 5:33:09 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I'll break this into 2-3 posts, to best (if possible) avoid monotony.

I had over $10,000 in unpaid wages owed to me, but I made inquiries with four different lawyers, each of whom said they wouldn't touch a case for less than $50,000. (The wages never got paid, and in the state they were owed in -- Texas -- there's essentially a statute of limitations on unpaid wages of 6 -months-.)

1.) You couldn't find an attorney willing to take the case for anything other than a flat fee/retainer of $50,000 (for a case seeking $10,000)? That's borderline ridiculous on several fronts.

2.) Why didn't you exhaust your options? If you can't afford private attorneys, check with the county/state bar association, or even the public defender's bureau; if you're a legal citizen, you have access to that.

3.) Why did you let the statute of limitations run out before exhausting all your options?

Wish I knew where you get your lawyers. I get laughed out the door whenever I seek help from one.

Pro bono. Look into it.

Your replete assumptions you make about me.

Or something like that.

I've had a broader range of jobs than that. I'm not sure where you got the 10 years number or got the notion that those are the only jobs I've worked. Those seem to be made-up presumptions on your part.

1.) Okay, it seems you missed a major section of my last post to you, so here it is again. Please read carefully:

At 8/13/2009 9:01:28 AM, USAPitBull63 wrote:
1.) Where did you get the notion that I said you haven't worked in 10 years? I said, "For ten years, [you've] had to compete against college graduates in the cut-throat industries of dog kennel maintenance, lawn care, and custodial arts."

I'd love an explanation of how competing for jobs means you haven't worked at all in 10 years.

2.) Where did I get ten years?

At 8/11/2009 8:44:27 PM, PervRat wrote:
There are virtually no legitimate online jobs. I've been hunting for over a decade for one.

To answer your question, I got the number from your own words. (A decade is ten years.)