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Circumcision

tvellalott
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6/26/2012 10:27:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I am uncut and happy about it.

However, with only a few short weeks before I find out the sex of my child, I've had a few conversations with my missus and I'm less sure about circumcision (and my adamant opposition to it) than I was before.

Apparently, if the circumcision is done immediately after birth by a doctor, it is a harmless, beneficial procedure and helps immensely when you're cleaning your child's poop, given that you can't pull the foreskin back until the child has grown and matured significantly (months at least).

So, convince me either way. I'd rather not do it, but if there are significant advantages then it might be necessary. I don't like the idea of cleaning poop out of the inside of a fragile foreskin...
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/26/2012 10:32:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/26/2012 10:27:48 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I am uncut and happy about it.

However, with only a few short weeks before I find out the sex of my child, I've had a few conversations with my missus and I'm less sure about circumcision (and my adamant opposition to it) than I was before.

Apparently, if the circumcision is done immediately after birth by a doctor, it is a harmless, beneficial procedure and helps immensely when you're cleaning your child's poop, given that you can't pull the foreskin back until the child has grown and matured significantly (months at least).

So, convince me either way. I'd rather not do it, but if there are significant advantages then it might be necessary. I don't like the idea of cleaning poop out of the inside of a fragile foreskin...

There are no serious advantages either way. Some may talk about being easier to clean and that is true, it is easier to clean, both while they are a baby with messy diapers, and later in life when they need to clean it themselves (at age 26, just like Obama believes, jk, cheap shot, sorry).

But really, it doesn't matter. Some may say that you shouldn't and should let it be the child's decision when they group up, since they can choose to have it done, they can't choose to have it undone. But then, that same argument would apply against any decision you make for the child and so should not be taken to heavily.
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tvellalott
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6/26/2012 10:40:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It seems that an overwhelming number of medical organisations oppose neonatal circumcision on the the basis that the benefits are outweighed by potential health risks.
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Ore_Ele
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6/26/2012 10:51:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/26/2012 10:40:04 PM, tvellalott wrote:
It seems that an overwhelming number of medical organisations oppose neonatal circumcision on the the basis that the benefits are outweighed by potential health risks.

Not sure which you are referring to. Before we knew the gender of our child, we spoke with several doctors (about pregnancy and birth plans in general) and none of them were "against" it in any sense. In fact, every one of them (I think we spoke with 5 or 6) were completely neutral on the matter.

Most papers in the NIH suggest neutrality.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
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tvellalott
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6/26/2012 11:25:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/26/2012 10:51:37 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 6/26/2012 10:40:04 PM, tvellalott wrote:
It seems that an overwhelming number of medical organisations oppose neonatal circumcision on the the basis that the benefits are outweighed by potential health risks.

Not sure which you are referring to. Before we knew the gender of our child, we spoke with several doctors (about pregnancy and birth plans in general) and none of them were "against" it in any sense. In fact, every one of them (I think we spoke with 5 or 6) were completely neutral on the matter.

Most papers in the NIH suggest neutrality.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Erm, Australia is a bit different to America I think. I saw that too; that American doctors seem to take the "It's the parents decision" route...

Anyway, upon further research, I'm convinced it's not a benefit. I didn't know that your foreskin is fused to your knob until puberty. That seem to imply that cleaning is a similar process for both. I mean, I've changed my step-daughters nappys dozens of times. It's not the cleaning part; if she stayed still it would be easy. It's the rioting. How old is your daughter?
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Ore_Ele
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6/26/2012 11:28:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/26/2012 11:25:45 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 6/26/2012 10:51:37 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 6/26/2012 10:40:04 PM, tvellalott wrote:
It seems that an overwhelming number of medical organisations oppose neonatal circumcision on the the basis that the benefits are outweighed by potential health risks.

Not sure which you are referring to. Before we knew the gender of our child, we spoke with several doctors (about pregnancy and birth plans in general) and none of them were "against" it in any sense. In fact, every one of them (I think we spoke with 5 or 6) were completely neutral on the matter.

Most papers in the NIH suggest neutrality.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Erm, Australia is a bit different to America I think.

Derp, I totally forgot that there are other countries here (wow, I feel like a typical american).

I saw that too; that American doctors seem to take the "It's the parents decision" route...

Anyway, upon further research, I'm convinced it's not a benefit. I didn't know that your foreskin is fused to your knob until puberty. That seem to imply that cleaning is a similar process for both. I mean, I've changed my step-daughters nappys dozens of times. It's not the cleaning part; if she stayed still it would be easy. It's the rioting. How old is your daughter?

Turns 1 year old on 7/2. That reminds me, I need a new DOOM Baby picture.
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bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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6/26/2012 11:54:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Circumcision cuts like 2/3 of the nerve endings off your penis. It makes it more difficult to masterbate or have sex without lube. And the book Circumcision: The Hidden Trauma documents how painful it can be for infants and how some withdraw socially after the procedure due to the intense pain. Something like 90% of the procedures are done without anesthetic because it was thought that babies couldn't feel or remember pain, so no harm done (and anesthetic can be harmful to newborns).

I was pissed for awhile that a decision was made to cut off part of my body without me having any say, but I don't really care anymore. It doesn't affect my life. That said, I wouldn't circumcise my own children, and I'm Jewish.

Fundamentally, it's a procedure from the Old Testament that we try to justify using modern justifications. But the slight decreased risk of HIV transmission plus ease of cleaning seem like lame arguments - about as good as the modern arguments about why we all shouldn't eat pork. It's just another stupid religious thing we do, yet it somehow gets less scrutiny because we assume doctors are on board with it. Yet somehow countries with really low circumcision rates (like the UK) don't see massive health problems from it.

I don't personally understand how more people question vaccination than question lopping off part of their babies' privates.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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6/27/2012 1:00:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
What a coincidence, I started a thread in the religion forum on this topic that you guys may want to check out

http://www.debate.org...
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vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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6/27/2012 1:15:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/26/2012 10:27:48 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I am uncut and happy about it.

However, with only a few short weeks before I find out the sex of my child, I've had a few conversations with my missus and I'm less sure about circumcision (and my adamant opposition to it) than I was before.

Apparently, if the circumcision is done immediately after birth by a doctor, it is a harmless, beneficial procedure and helps immensely when you're cleaning your child's poop, given that you can't pull the foreskin back until the child has grown and matured significantly (months at least).

I have a 2 year old, uncircumcised son and neither my wife nor I have ever had any problems cleaning.


So, convince me either way. I'd rather not do it, but if there are significant advantages then it might be necessary. I don't like the idea of cleaning poop out of the inside of a fragile foreskin...

I've never had to do that. It sounds like you've gotten bad information.

I'm with bluesteel on this on this. Circumcision is a religious ritual that modern culture rationalizes. Some countries are working on banning the practice. Progress on this is impeded by Jews and Muslims.

If you read the Wikipedia page on circumcision, you'll see that health organizations tend to say that it offers no significant benefits. You'd just be hurting your child - quite significantly. Anesthetics aren't administered to infants because of health risks. Your son's first experience in the world would be one of torture.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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7/1/2012 10:00:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
There is a good video about circumcision at this website:
http://www.nocirc.org...
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
slo1
Posts: 4,350
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8/3/2012 3:45:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/26/2012 10:27:48 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I am uncut and happy about it.

However, with only a few short weeks before I find out the sex of my child, I've had a few conversations with my missus and I'm less sure about circumcision (and my adamant opposition to it) than I was before.

Apparently, if the circumcision is done immediately after birth by a doctor, it is a harmless, beneficial procedure and helps immensely when you're cleaning your child's poop, given that you can't pull the foreskin back until the child has grown and matured significantly (months at least).

So, convince me either way. I'd rather not do it, but if there are significant advantages then it might be necessary. I don't like the idea of cleaning poop out of the inside of a fragile foreskin...

My sons are uncut. One had an infection once. We went to doc, got some antibiotic cream and good as new in a couple days. He had an infection on his foot once too. Thankfully, we didn't cut that off either. It is easier to get infections including related STD's with foreskin, but anyone trying to sell circumcision as a method to reduce AIDS transition is doing so because the populace is ignorant and it is hard to get them to use condoms or stop boinking each other.
NixonianVolkswagen
Posts: 481
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8/12/2012 3:31:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm opposed to childhood circumcision, of either gender, personally. I should be clear, I'm not a scientist or qualified in that capacity, but what I've read suggests that it's one of the most sensitive parts of the penis. For that reason alone, of not wishing to cut out one of the most sexual bits of your child's sexual organ, I'd advise against it.

However, I additionally don't think you have the right to amputate anything from your son or daughter unless there's a distinct & pressing medical justification. If they want to have it done when they're older, they're free to.
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NixonianVolkswagen
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8/12/2012 3:58:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/12/2012 3:33:44 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
This should help everyone regarding this issue.

http://www.foreskinman.com...

Amazing.

I thought the baby in panel 3 had wrinkles, but they're just really weird eyebrows. Huh.
"There is an almost universal tendency, perhaps an inborn tendency, to suspect the good faith of a man who holds opinions that differ from our own opinions."

- Karl "Spartacus" Popper
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/12/2012 3:59:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/12/2012 3:58:17 AM, NixonianVolkswagen wrote:
At 8/12/2012 3:33:44 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
This should help everyone regarding this issue.

http://www.foreskinman.com...

Amazing.

I thought the baby in panel 3 had wrinkles, but they're just really weird eyebrows. Huh.

Is it wrong to wack off to vulva girl?
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tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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8/12/2012 8:11:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Since we're having a girl, this is now a non-issue. However, if we decide to have another kid and it turns out to be a boy, I am staunchly opposed to circumcision. I've done the research, I know it's unnecessary.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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8/12/2012 8:35:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm cut, and I could give like, -8 shits.
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16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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8/13/2012 4:22:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/26/2012 11:54:27 PM, bluesteel wrote:
Circumcision cuts like 2/3 of the nerve endings off your penis. It makes it more difficult to masterbate or have sex without lube. And the book Circumcision: The Hidden Trauma documents how painful it can be for infants and how some withdraw socially after the procedure due to the intense pain. Something like 90% of the procedures are done without anesthetic because it was thought that babies couldn't feel or remember pain, so no harm done (and anesthetic can be harmful to newborns).

I was pissed for awhile that a decision was made to cut off part of my body without me having any say, but I don't really care anymore. It doesn't affect my life. That said, I wouldn't circumcise my own children, and I'm Jewish.

Fundamentally, it's a procedure from the Old Testament that we try to justify using modern justifications. But the slight decreased risk of HIV transmission plus ease of cleaning seem like lame arguments - about as good as the modern arguments about why we all shouldn't eat pork. It's just another stupid religious thing we do, yet it somehow gets less scrutiny because we assume doctors are on board with it. Yet somehow countries with really low circumcision rates (like the UK) don't see massive health problems from it.

I don't personally understand how more people question vaccination than question lopping off part of their babies' privates.

Lol. In med school my dad did circumcision. He used pain killer at first, but on the last few never did as they wouldn't remember
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RyuuKyuzo
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8/13/2012 7:10:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't agree with infant circumcision, but hey it could have been much worse. Just be glad we didn't pick up subincisions (google at own risk).
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